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A's Hit Way to Seventh Straight Loss

Oakland_tiny by Blez on

Only it wasn't hitting with the bat, it was hitting batters with the bases loaded, which scored two runs for the Blue Jays.  A third came across on a wild pitch by Sean Gallagher who was wild for his three innings.  And it wasn't against a great offensive club.  The Jays didn't have Vernon Wells.

Regardless, Gallagher is still learning how to pitch and be consistent and I'm not going to throw in the towel on him because he has some very, very good stuff.  He kept getting himself in trouble by not throwing early strikes which is why he wound up with 94 pitches in only three innings.

The positive on the pitching side was that Dan Meyer looked very good in his four innings of work.  Meyer only allowed four hits and no walks in that time while striking out three.  What was the most impressive to me is that his slider must be extremely deceptive because the Jays hitters kept swinging and missing at pitches that weren't strikes.  Meyer isn't throwing 94-95 like he once was when he was one of the top rated pitching prospects in all of baseball, but I'm anxious to see if he can prove to be a good major league pitcher.  It was interesting that they decided to use him tonight instead of someone DiNardo.  It makes me wonder what is going to happen on Thursday.  Will we be seeing Gio Gonzalez?  It's currently listed as TBD.  And if Gio does come up to pitch, could we possibly be seeing Meyer taking Gallagher's next turn in the rotation?  I'm not sure but that's kind of what I'd like to see right now.

There really aren't any positives right now about the A's offense.  I mean both on and off the field as Eric Chavez is having surgery on his shoulder again.  At the same time, it's just best that he do it now.  Get it done and have plenty of time to see if you can get right in time for 2009.  Crosby did spoil Roy Halladay's day of making A's hitters look like little leaguers with a homer, but that was really all the A's could muster all night.  It's not really a shocker and I think it's something we'll have to get used to for what remains of 2008.

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At this second half rate we should win 7.66 games

The way the team is playing, 5 more wins may be a tall order. (LOL)

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 4, 2008 6:22 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

DiNardo threw 89 pitches 2 days ago

No way he could have pitched tonight.

I would think Meyer throwing 66 pitches tonight probably disqualifies him from the Thursday start, so I’m making plans to be planted by my television to watch Gio’s debut.

I’m hoping for a nice little competition next spring among about 8-10 pitchers for rotation spots. Guys that get outs and throw strikes get to be in the rotation. The losers get to work on their command in a very interesting AAA rotation (unless Eveland and Meyer are among the losers, in which case their being out of options will mean the bullpen or being elsewhere).

by Faust on Aug 4, 2008 6:24 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Competition could be a good thing.

It would give these guys some serious motivation to perform in a time when everyone else is seemingly just going through the motions. At this point it might come down to who can go an outing without throwing more than three balls to the backstop.

I wasn’t sure it was possible, but If Gallagher goes down to AAA to make room for Gio I think I would feel evern worse about the Harden trade. I know it hasn’t been long, but having three guys who aren’t up to performing well enough to stay on the big league club for more than a few games at a time is pretty dang discouraging.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Aug 4, 2008 6:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

you think the problem is motivation?

they’re nonchalanting it because they’re so sure of their future with the A’s, in MLB? there might be a better explanation…
1. they’re bad
2. they’re nervous
3. they’re inexperienced
4. they’re trying too hard
5. all of the above

by skutch on Aug 4, 2008 6:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

thank Ba'al Crosby's still on the team ...

... to counsel those suffering from #4 that whatever they’re doing, they’re not doing it hard enough.

This is the highest-known density of gorillas that's ever been found. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 5, 2008 12:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'd also like to know what getting Chavez back "healthy" would even mean at this point

I don’t know that really healthy is even possible anymore. I’m concerned that “healthy” in this context just means Humpty-Dumpty with a major tape job.

by Faust on Aug 4, 2008 6:28 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

can't really blame the rotation for this slide

after all, only one member is a veteran (Duke, in his first full year as an MLB starter).

by OaklandSi on Aug 4, 2008 6:38 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Gallagher was totally wild

but I’m not too worried about him. I think he will be just fine. Afterall, he is adjusting to the AL and he has tons of talent, so I say just chill on SG.

Meyer I thought was very impressive tonight. It was a marked improvemnt fron his stint up with the big club last year. Good command, good pace, and I was most impressed with his composure even when he got a ball hit very hard off the wall for a double.

Boy, I tell ya…..the offense is absolutely dreadful and at some point the bleeding has to stop.
“Medic!!!!”

by mrod on Aug 4, 2008 6:43 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

I'm not so convinced about Meyer's command

I thought it was his stuff that was working better than his command. He didn’t seem to hit Suzuki’s glove that often – the target would be low and away, the pitch would be a foot higher and more over the plate, but it would still fool the batter into a swing and a miss. I think regaining the command is still a work in progress, but the results tonight were encouraging any way you look at it.

by Faust on Aug 4, 2008 7:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Once he settled down, he kept his slider down

and jammed hitters pretty effectively with his fastball. His first inning I felt he was aiming the ball and overthrowing a bit. It must have been hard for him to throw two days in a row in relief, after making 22 starts at AAA, so I think his command/stuff were both impressive considering.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Wow, the A's really suck right now

it’s kind of depressing. The only part of the team doing any good right now is the bullpen. While important, it’s also the most boring part of the team to have on a roll. Usually a good night by the bullpen means a so-so or bad night by the starters.

The A’s desperately need a hitter to get hot. Crosby or Barton showed a couple glimpses, hitting HR’s off good pitchers. Thomas or Cust going on a homer binge would be nice.

Wow, this post is really stating the obvious. I guess I’m just venting.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Aug 4, 2008 6:45 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Boy, I'm sorry I missed this one.

Ick.

By process of elimination (the only process I endorse), I guess that makes you a piece of lamb. @('.')@

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 4, 2008 6:51 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

If this is rebuilding

I’d say Oakland is doing it wrong. Would it be too much to ask to have Beane answer some questions about this ridiculous tank job?

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Aug 4, 2008 6:52 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

I should add

that yes, the talent in the minors looks to be great, but it doesn’t mean you have to throw a season away to get there.

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Aug 4, 2008 6:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't know

I’d feel much worse if we were losing w/ Blanton, Harden, and Gaudin. With the way the team is playing right now, we’d still be losing w/ those guys. Heck, even Harden is 1-1 right now. And Blanton is an absolute train wreck.

What would the A’s record be w/o the trades of Harden/Gaudin and Blanton??? .500??? No Thank You!!! Give me a 2009 Top-15 Draft Pick and sign Pat Burrell w/o giving up your 1st Round Draft Pick.

by Colorado Fan on Aug 4, 2008 9:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It is kind of intriguing to think that if Beane just

made one trade for a decent bat at a corner position and signed Burrell, we could have Burrell, Cust, and another good bat along with Gonzalez and Suzuki – and maybe not have too sucky an offense in 2009 after all.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 9:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No thanks on Burrell

He’s just another guy having a good contract year and is gonna suck it up with his new contract. And he’s doing it in the NL, which shouldn’t go overlooked, as well

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Aug 5, 2008 2:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Depends if 'chemistry' has any reality

Do players play with less intensity when it seems that management has given up?

by MobiusKlein on Aug 4, 2008 10:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'd probably be momentarily discouraged, for a game or two.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 4, 2008 10:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well...

It’s not like the team was scoring runs before the trades went down. I mean, you gotta score more than 2 runs/game, don’t you? Add up the 0, 1, & 2 Run games. It’s at about 40 now (I think).

Tough to have “Chemistry” when Chavez, Big Hurt, Mike Sweeney, and others go down for the season, or 45+ days, or 60+ days. Too many injuries to vets. Too many rookies taking the ball every 5th day. Barton struggling. Ellis streaky. Crosby sucking. LF/CF/LF combining for less than 1 MLB Season.

by Colorado Fan on Aug 4, 2008 11:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

This is why we need Manny!

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2008 12:04 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

And now for the obligatory

Dunn Dun-Dun-Dun Dunnnnnnnn

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 5, 2008 12:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well sure

losing with those guys would be more frustrating, but for people to not think there is a correlation with the team just flat giving up and the Harden/Gaudin/Blanton trades, that’s absurd. It’s human nature. The team was 3.5 out of the Wild Card, hanging around in the West (even after Harden and Gaudin goes), and then Blanton goes. At that point, Duke says what the team surely is thinking, and it appears that after 95 games, the FO decides to pack it in. Yes, the offense wasn’t world beaters or anything, but they clearly were never this bad. I would just like it if Beane had to answer some questions about this complete tank job we’re witnessing. I’m not really mad at the players because, like I said, it’s human nature to feel like they had been betrayed. Players don’t think about what the team is going to be like in 2010, they think about now, and when they feel they are being screwed, the intensity and caring ends.

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Aug 5, 2008 5:14 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

OK

What do any of those trades have to do w/ the offense. And yeah, I guess I can see some sort of correlation. But I can also see the correlation of sucky offense + young team + injuries = sub .500 baseball. Maybe not this bad, but Sub .500 nonetheless.

by Colorado Fan on Aug 5, 2008 8:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

BTW

This sentence really bothers me:

“Players don’t think about what the team is going to be like in 2010, they think about now, and when they feel they are being screwed, the intensity and caring ends.”

Do you honestly think that is the case? The caring ends? For whom?

by Colorado Fan on Aug 5, 2008 8:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

A couple thoughts...

It’s still not set in stone that Gio would have to be the Thursday starter, because DiNardo will be available by then and Braden could also go if need be with Saarloos available to go Friday. But I’m betting it’s Gio time – which at least would be exciting.

It’s easy to forget that when something goes just a little wrong for a pitcher, be it mechanics, composure, confidence, etc. how bad the results can be. Gallagher isn’t suddenly horrible because he was horrifically bad tonight; it’s just that major league hitters will prey on weaknesses bigtime.

The A’s have won twice in the last 24 days – that is ridiculous. :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:07 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

That could also explain

Everyone’s foul mood around here. Mine included.

by Blez on Aug 4, 2008 7:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

What you say is reasonable on some level, I guess

But I just don’t give a rat’s ass – I don’t ever want to see DiNardo pitch outside of mop-up duty again. If DiNardo starts a game, I ain’t watching. Which might not be so bad – I could use a free evening to catch up on all the stuff I’m falling behind on while watching and reading about the damn A’s.

But if Gonzalez starts, I’m there, baby.

by Faust on Aug 4, 2008 7:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I feel about DiNardo the same as you -

and the same way I feel about every Hannahan and E. Brown AB. Show me the future and I’m interested. Show me filler and I’m not.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Which reminds me...

Was Sweeney hurt? Starting Emil ahead of Sweeney against Halliday is just malpractice if Sweeney is healthy.

by Faust on Aug 4, 2008 7:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

His pinky finger was hurting

Which sounds like a joke, but it’s actually true! Next injury: hangnail.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

+1

I’ll go so far as to say they (the A’s, Geren, Beane) owe it to us to throw Gio on Thursday.

If you’re sentencing us to to .350 or .400 ball for the remainder of the year, that’s bad enough, but at least some of us can rationalize that we’re rebuilding and getting a great draft pick or whatever.

But don’t flip us all off by starting Saarloos or DiNardo. That would be like…like closing the third deck of the Coliseum. Wait…

"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons

by notsellingjeans on Aug 4, 2008 10:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

His reason for being horrible today

sounds WAY too Zito-esque. That put me in a foul mood.

“I think I was trying to nibble way too much,” Gallagher said of the bases-loaded situations. “I think I was trying to make two perfect pitches and I ended up missing by a lot most of the time.”

by A'sian on Aug 5, 2008 12:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

When a pitcher says "I was trying to nibble"

A key component of the message he’s trying to convey is, “The situation is under my control. I made a mistake in my approach, but I can correct that.” He doesn’t want to say “Try as I might, I simply couldn’t throw the damn ball within a foot or so of the catcher’s target” because, well, what’s the answer then? How can he assure us, his manager, and himself that things will be any different next time out?

It’s not that his command can’t be improved, but it’s not likely to be a very quick or easy process.

by Faust on Aug 5, 2008 9:35 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Every team slumps

You can’t determine anything based on a really bad stretch by a team that, it seems now, was playing over its head earlier in the season. However…I keep thinking that we could now have a rotation of Duke, Harden, Gaudin, Blanton or Braden, and Smith, and we’d be fine.

by richwol1 on Aug 4, 2008 7:11 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

It's worth noting, though, that even bad teams,

like the Nationals and Pirates, rarely go 2-16. This isn’t a slump – at this point, it’s an all-out free-fall, one that has gone – so far – 10% of a season. Yikes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Nats just came off a 4-18 stretch

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 4, 2008 7:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I dream of a 4-18 stretch

My point is, it’s not common. The Mariners might also have endured something similar this year – but again, probably not even quite as horrific as 2-16. That’s really bad.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 8:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'll take it as counterbalancing

the 20 game win streak. If the baseball gods want to exact their revenge this season they’re welcome to it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 4, 2008 8:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That was a magical run in 2002, have to admit.

Nothing magical about this free fall though.

by javaball on Aug 4, 2008 8:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Jimbo says:

Well, sure, Vietnam was fun, but not like going to the circus fun, or fly fishin’ in Montana fun. No, Vietnam was more like shoving shards of broken glass up your ass, and then sittin’ in a tub with tobasco sauce fun.

By process of elimination (the only process I endorse), I guess that makes you a piece of lamb. @('.')@

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 4, 2008 9:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

I'm not sure about that...

with that rotation we may be a .500 team but really theres no chance of us winning by scoring 1 or 2 runs. blanton and gaudin werent shutting anyone out and def not braden. i do agree that the way we’re playing right now doesnt reflect what we’re capable of, but that peak had already been reached in the 1st half. now we’re seeing the valley

by chipper1001 on Aug 4, 2008 7:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It may have been difficult to acquire one...

but it seems like had they acquired a bat or two this team wasn’t far from competing. The pitching had been great, and was leading the league in ERA. At the very least they never looked like a team bad enough to go 2-16 or whatever the heck they are. If the Angels are really as good as they have been playing it may not have mattered, but with a strong rotation you never know.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Aug 4, 2008 7:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think once they lost Chavez, they were two bats from contending

and Thomas wasn’t coming back soon enough. Adding a bat would have been, IMO, a bad middle-ground – stepping backwards from rebuilding while still not really contending. I had no problem with moving Harden and Blanton, frankly, due to Harden’s health and Blanton’s replaceability. I just wish that in the last three trades combined (including Swisher) we had gotten more to show for power bats, and the left side of the infield, in 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 7:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Counting on Chavez to begin with was a mistake

It has been a series of bad decisions that has given us an offense that can’t out score the Earthquakes. Guys like Josh Hamilton and Carlos Quentin were out there and available for next to nothing. The guy responsible for this train wreck didn’t grab those players…they went to teams most people here like to laugh at. Why was getting some real insurance for Chavez and assuming he would do nothing but DH so difficult?? There were options available prior to the 2007 season, prior to the 2008 season and about the time Beane pulled the plug 3 weeks ago.

Failing to plan for the worst with regards to Chavez and then dumping Milton Bradley last year when the A’s were only 3 games back in the wild card put all the dominoes in motion for rebuilding just a half a season after the A’s played in the ALCS. Unless it was actually hiring Bob Geren instead of Ron Washington as manager that was the first domino to fall.

by cvdoug on Aug 4, 2008 8:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Carlos Quentin

Is it possible that Beane thought that Chris Carter (Stockton) > Carlos Quentin? Beane might have told Byrnes (D-Backs GM) that Chris Carter needed to be included in the Haren trade. No?

by Colorado Fan on Aug 4, 2008 9:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

If so, I think Billy may be right

Carter looks like he has potential to be exactly the kind of hitter the A’s so desperately need: A true power masher. And he maintains a high OBP, making him more of a Jim Thome type than a Dave Kingman type. Quentin is having a great year, but it’s not at ALL clear that Carter won’t be the more valuable player.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 9:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I see him as Cust's replacement, both as a hitter and in AN controversy.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 4, 2008 9:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

< starts writing "Carter sucks" fanpost >

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Aug 4, 2008 9:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

But he's 34% above replacement level properly adjusted for height and weight

according to Chuck Norris…

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 4, 2008 10:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Man, he pitched great in 1980.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 10:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Unfortunately Bruce Lee overworked his arm.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 4, 2008 10:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That's probably why they called him "Spaceman"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 4, 2008 10:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I thought that was Aaron Neville

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 4, 2008 10:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Ryan Howard is the comparison that keeps coming to mind...

Carter will probably whiff at Howard-like rates but he should walk enough and hit enough jacks to make it worthwhile.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 5, 2008 12:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

But he has to control the "Strickouts"

And hit .300 or he sucks.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 5, 2008 12:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It's pretty obvious who has been more valuable this year

The point is that players who could have helped the A’s this year were out there.

by cvdoug on Aug 5, 2008 1:21 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

OK, so the A's could have Quentin and lose the division by 10 games instead

Boy, you’re really making the case for acquiring talent for this year only.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 5, 2008 11:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Doubt it

Arizona had an outfielder logjam last season that they were intent on clearing through trades. Quentin wasn’t going to beat out Golden Boy Eric Byrnes and his $30 million contract, or Chris Young, or Justin Upton—he had no apparent future with the franchise. (Neither did Carlos Gonzalez, for that matter.)

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 5, 2008 12:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Amusing that the Carloses are so far better than Eric or Chris.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2008 12:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't really doubt it

Sounds like Beane, Byrnes, and Kenny Williams have each other on Quick Dial, and the Quentin/Carter trade came 11 days prior to the Haren deal going down. And Beane/Byrnes had been talking about a Haren deal in July 2007.

by Colorado Fan on Aug 5, 2008 8:42 AM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

To be fair he did bring in Hannahan as Chavez insurance.

I’m not sure what more one can do without getting a real veteran 3B lik