Try to remember that time in September...
Well, that's what they tell the guys like Craig Brazell, anyway. Remember it, 'cause you're not coming back anytime soon...
The rosters expand after today's game, so I thought I'd take a gander at the situation. The A's are in a bit of a bind right now, with a ton of players who need to be protected from the Rule 5 draft if the team wants to make sure of keeping them until next year. They actually got a head start on things today, calling up Aaron Cunningham while putting Andrew Brown on the 60-day DL.
I figure I'll take a glance at the team's minor league affiliates to figure out who should get a September cup of joe, how many of them are not on the 40-man roster, and who should get the proverbial axe to make room. Obviously, I won't be wasting anyone's time with guys who clearly aren't good enough for the big leagues, so the list of guys who are Rule 5 eligible isn't going to be an exhaustive one. I've bolded the guys I think will be added to the 40-man roster. Of the group that's already on it, I've bolded the ones I think will put in an appearance this September.
The Low Minors (Stockton and downward)
Rule 5 eligible: Jose Garcia, Jamie Richmond
Richmond, the lesser half of the Mark Kotsay package, has had a really mediocre season. I thought he had some potential as a back-of-the-rotation type, but he looks very unlikely to make the majors now. He's not a factor. Garcia is interesting, as he's talented but also extremely injury prone. Now that I've confirmed that Fautino De Los Santos doesn't need to be added to the 40-man roster yet, I think he squeaks onto the roster.
These guys aren't big-league callup material right now, so any moves involving them can wait until November.
Midland
Rule 5 eligible: Jason Windsor, Ryan Webb, Anthony Recker, Jesus Guzman, Justin Sellers
On the 40-man: Dan Meyer, Henry Rodriguez, Javier Herrera, Richie Robnett
Windsor's shoulder appears to be completely shot at this point.
Ryan Webb has solid stuff. His numbers don't really paint an optimistic picture of his future, but there's enough filler on the pitching staff right now that I think he'll get protected. Don't think he'll be called up, though.
Recker offers the potential of a catcher with the power to slug double-digit home runs from the backup spot. The A's 40-man is a little light on catchers right now and their upper-level org chart is REALLY light on them, so I think they'll put him on the 40-man. The question is, will he get a big-league callup?
Jesus Guzman has hit the bejeezus out of AA, but his stint in AAA this year was short and injury-riddled. He's not a "classic A's player"-- his plate discipline is fringe-average and he's not a great defender-- but I think he's done enough to earn a roster spot. He would actually be a free agent, not merely Rule 5 eligible, if he was not placed on the 40-man roster, so the odds of him returning would be very low if the A's do not add him.
Justin Sellers is a tough call. The A's love his game, but he just doesn't appear to have the bat to warrant expending a roster spot on him. He might stick as a utility guy, but the A's have a bunch of guys in that range of player anyway.
Of the guys on the 40-man, we all know about Dan Meyer. He'll probably come back to Oakland once the minor league playoffs are over, but the game is about up for him. His exile to Texas may not literally be a geographic comment by the team on his future chances, but it might as well be.
Henry Rodriguez is too raw to justify a big-league stint. It's not clear he's even capable of handling AA at this point, so the majors is out of the question.
Javier Herrera hasn't done much the past few years, but the team just might give him a shot to show something in the majors. His option clock is ticking loudly at this point, so it may be a situation where he gets cut if he doesn't show well in MLB.
Richie Robnett has to be considered a bust at this point. He moved backward this season. I think he will be designated for assignment this September.
Sacramento
Rule 5 eligible: Chris Gissell, Brad Kilby, Shane Komine, Jay Marshall, Josh Outman, Ryan Wing, Jeff Baisley, Wes Bankston, Brooks Conrad, Donnie Murphy, Danny Putnam
On the 40-man: Lenny DiNardo, Jeff Gray, Landon Powell, Gregorio Petit, Travis Buck, Chris Denorfia, Carlos Gonzalez, Matt Murton
It might be easier to list the players on Sacto's roster who AREN'T Rule 5 eligible (basically, Vince Mazzaro). Lightning-round style for the also-rans: Chris Gissell has had a nice season, but looks like a 7th starter. Brad Kilby is the 5th best lefty reliever in an organization that can probably keep 4. Shane Komine, like Jason Windsor, was fringy before getting hurt and is sadly a nonfactor now. Jay Marshall rocked AA but has been awful in AAA, and his American Taliban-esque facial hair probably isn't doing him any favors with head office. Brooks Conrad somehow got big-league time, but he's not even AAAA material.
Josh Outman recently received praise from the A's brass, who called him "everything they had expected," or something to that effect. He'll probably come up to work out of the bullpen in September, but he might get some starts if the A's decide to go cautious with their current rotation. He's a lock for the 40-man.
Ryan Wing is an interesting case. He's a lefty reliever who has a history of injury problems. He missed all of 2004, then pitched for about half of 2005, very ineffectively, and missed most of 2006. Over his minor league career, he was quite effective at shutting down the opposition's batters, but he's had control issues (possibly related to the injuries) and hasn't racked up huge numbers of strikeouts. Is he better than Dan Meyer? Hard to say. The key may be whether Wing has options remaining-- if he does, he might be a better choice than Meyer going forward.
Jeff Baisley has been hurt for a lot of this season, which is too bad because he looks like a pretty solid third baseman and the A's could really have used that this year. He has actual power, unlike the other stopgap non-Chavezes the A's have been running out there of late. If he's healthy, he should definitely get a callup.
Wes Bankston simply doesn't look like an answer at the positions he can actually play. If he played an acceptable third he might be comparable to Baisley, but he doesn't.
Donnie Murphy's bizarre vacillation between being a low-OBP slugger and a slappy average guy continues, as he hit 11 homers in AAA this year after posting just 3 last season in more at-bats. Facts is facts, though-- a .318 AAA OBP isn't impressing anyone. Making matters worse, he isn't showing well against lefties this year. Entering the year he looked like a solid platoon caddy in the infield. Now he just looks like army surplus.
Danny Putnam has quietly posted a solid season (.276/.385/.497, 15 HR) in AAA. I just don't see the room for him. He's badly overstretched in center field, and the A's appear to have a lot of better options at the corners. I don't think he'll make the roster. I DO think he'll get drafted by another organization-- plenty of teams could use a solid backup corner outfielder. If I had to pick one player as most likely to actually get taken in Rule 5, I'd go with Putnam.
Landon Powell is hurt, so he can't get called up. Him excepted, it's fish or cut bait time for the guys on the 40-man roster. Lenny D has been hammered pretty consistently this year and it seems like the team can find better swingmen pretty easily. Jeff Gray still hasn't explained what he's doing on the 40-man, and at this point I can't see how he survives the next round of layoffs. He keeps the ball on the ground but does nothing else well enough to look like even a middle relief option.
You know the rest of the names on this list; all of them have been involved extensively this year, one way or another. I have no idea how they'll find playing time for this many outfielders. All the more reason why I think Putnam's chance will have to come outside of the A's organization.
Conclusion: The A's need to find somewhere between 6 and 8 spaces on their 40-man roster. I'll call it 7. However, they don't need all of those spots immediately. Garcia, if they protect him, is not going to be a callup, and Webb and Recker probably won't be either. So over the next few weeks, the A's need to cut about four players. One of those "cuts" could be Frank Thomas-- depending on whether his quad keeps acting up or not, he might be placed on the 60-day DL and thus shelved for the year. Here's a list of the plausible options for roster cuts:
Lenny DiNardo
Keith Foulke
Dan Meyer
Jeff Gray
Kirk Saarloos
Jack Hannahan
Emil Brown
Chris Denorfia
Javier Herrera
Richie Robnett
(Frank Thomas)
Assuming Thomas is able to come back, I would cut Robnett, DiNardo, Foulke and Brown. After the season ends, the A's will have exactly 40 players on their 40-man roster, so three more players will have to go to make room for Rule 5 protection purposes-- probably Herrera, Gray and Saarloos. Further cuts will be needed if the A's sign any free agents or take a Rule 5 player... but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Any thoughts or comments on what the A's might do over the last month are, of course, much encouraged.
5 recs |
201 comments
Comments
We have too many OFs
I know OF get injured and its nice to have some depth but jeez
Denorfia
Davis
Cust
Cunningham
Sweeney
Gonzalez
Buck
Murton
and all are major league caliber OF I feel (now how many are starter material we can argue about) and are under control for at least 3 more years (most more). Some should probably be moved with some relievers this offseason.
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by iamawesomer on Aug 31, 2008 7:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Should add Putnam to the list
I think he’s at least as good as Denorfia or Murton.
by thejd44 on Aug 31, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Denorfia's a more versatile backup
because he can PR and play center.
That said, at this point I’m not going to argue that he’s a better hitter per se, because he probably isn’t.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
I’d rather much rather have Davis than Denorfia. Neither of them cut it as starters, and Davis is much better than Denorfia as a defensive replacement, and a bit better as a PRer. For spot starts, Denorfia’s offensive advantage and Davis’s defensive advantage is either a wash or a slight advantage for Davis.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 31, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will freely admit
that my reasons for liking Denorfia are basically not related to his on-field performance…
I still think that he could be a plus leadoff hitter if he can get 100% healthy though. His approach is so much better than Davis’s…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fear that Denorfia is the most redundant of all our OFers
Davis provides the unique skill of true speed and top defense, but we have a ton of “very good” defensive OFers, guys who “could hit .290,” guys who “could steal 20 bases” – all the things Denorfia does well others can also do well and likely better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 31, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tried to post this last night but AN3.0 was being evil
Essentially what I said is that Denorfia is kind of a combination poor man’s Davis + Sweeney. His skill set overlaps those two guys, but those guys do things better. Davis is better with the speed and glove. Sweeney is a better for-average hitter. And with Cunningham in the fold, it looks like the A’s actually have a little right-handed presence in the outfield now. Redundant is pretty much the perfect word.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In England,
being “made redundant” is a euphemism for “fired”… : /
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not quite.
Fired is when you do something bad; made redundant is when your job disappears. You get compensation for the latter, but not for the former (at least below CEO grade).
by green star oakland on Sep 1, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem w OF is
Most seem like 4-5 type guys not impact.
CarGon is definetely the best of the bunch and Cunningham has the potential, however most view him as a 4th OF.
I agree 1 or more should be moved in the offseason, even if for nothing more than freeing up a roster spot.
by Bud Light on Aug 31, 2008 7:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Outfield
Next year, the A’s will have an interesting MLB Outfield, especially depending on if they go after a new DH (Giambi?)
Cunningham
Gonzalez
Buck
Sweeney
I think they will essentially rotate as the starting outfield next year, and my personal guess is that they pan out in that order I listed (LF/CF/RF/4OF). Throw Cust into the mix if they do not acquire a DH, and take him out if they do not. The 5th OF spot will depend on this. If Cust is sent to be the OF Bench Bat, he will be the 5th outfielder. If he is sent to DH, then Rajai Davis will probably be that 5th Outfielder, as he has more value at the position of 5th OF/25th Man than, say, Chris Denorfia, in that he is valuable in the aspects that you want from the 25th man not the ones that would be wasted in that position; He can play good defense, he can play Centerfield, and he can run and steal bases as a pinch runner. He doesn’t have to be able to hit well, because he won’t see signifigant playing time and at bats as a late inning PR/DR. But he will have to battle with Matt Murton for that position if Murton is not dealt because Murton has another skill set that would make him a good 4th/5th Outfielder because he is a Right Handed Platoon Player, and the A’s seem to like having that guy around (albe having him hit against RHP instead of LHP for some reason: Bobby Kielty, Emil Brown, Jay Payton, etc).
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Aug 31, 2008 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Help me through this
You have Cunningham and Buck rated above Sweeney, how did that happen? Cunningham has played exactly one game in the majors, Buck flamed out all year, and has done nothing yet to suggest he is ready for prime time, while Sweeney has played over half a season, is hitting .290, and fielding quite nicely thank you. All four of the guys are essentially the same age, and I have no idea which if any will turn out to be top quality major players but if I had to bet I would bet on Sweeney over Buck and probably Cunningham.
by Laoren on Aug 31, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could make this argument, but only if you completely ignore their minor league track records...
Both Cunningham and Buck have had much more impressive careers overall than Ryan Sweeney.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ive been trying to explain this in other threads.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Aug 31, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what Buck did in 2007 doesn't matter?
Putting up great (way, way, better than Sweeney) numbers last year in half a season counts as “something” that indicates he is ready for prime time.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 31, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Buck did in 2007 matters just as much as what he's done in 2008.
Everybody keeps penciling Buck in as a starting corner OF in Oakland next year, but nobody wants to look at the fact that he’s never played a full season without injury, is an average defensive OF at best, and experienced a horrific drop in performance this season.
That doesn’t mean he won’t come back next year and have an .850 OPS again, but it’s probably more likely that Sweeney does that next year than Buck.
by mikev on Sep 1, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not penciling him in...
Sweeney/Cunningham/FA might be beat him out for a spot, but a lot of people (like the comment I was responding to are writing him off for what’s happened this year. As for Buck vs. Sweeney, I don’t think Buck will put up a .850 OPS as he did in 07, but I’m not sure Sweeney is even capable of that.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel I've already commented on this issue
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2008/7/30/583195/open-thread-trade-deadline#7773745
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Wayne Garland Factor
I’ve seen way too many players in my many years as a baseball fan have one good season, then get tagged with the ‘good MLB player’ label, only to never have a good MLB season again despite far too many opportunities. Hence, several years ago I developed my “Missouri” stance… show me two years in a row, then I’ll believe you’re legit.
Having said that, I want Buck to succeed. I like him. But, I’m not convinced yet. Plus, he seems to be way too prone to nagging little injuries that seem to hang on indefinitely and keep him from ever being 100%.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
same goes the other way around though...
I’m not saying he’s going to be great necessarily, but he needs to show me another year of suck to convince me that he sucks.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Charbonneau Factor
ROY, then submerges in no time. That guy was among the most dramatic.
"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen
by One won lost won on Sep 1, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oookay, missed on spelling Charboneau
here is Joe’s line:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/charbjo01.shtml
"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen
by One won lost won on Sep 1, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A better example.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why people seem to think Ben Grieve faded so quickly
He varied somewhere between mediocre and good for at least his first six seasons. Bobby Crosby would be a better comparison than Grieve.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I co-wrote the lyrics for a couple of hit singles by The Wayne Garland Factor in the '70s
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Sep 2, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
weren't you the guy they called in
…whenever they needed some automotive touches to the lyrics?
e.g.
Pedals to the floor hear his dual quads drink
And now the four-thirteens lead is startin to shrink
He fought with ram induction but it’s understood
I got a fuel injected engine sittin under my hood
“Shut Down” by the Beach Boys
Weren’t those your lyrics??!!
"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen
by One won lost won on Sep 2, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, Mike Love paid me $20,000 in small, unmarked, nonconsecutive bills to stay away from Brian Wilson
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Sep 2, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
so, you’re that guy!!!
Runs Please. A lot of them. The rest of the season. Thank you.
by One won lost won on Sep 2, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why Cust would not be starting in the DH scenario...
He’s clearly the best hitter of the lot at this point in time. He’ll be in the lineup… somewhere.
I really think they need another bat, though. Cust/Cunningham/Gonzalez is a good hitting outfield. Cunningham/Gonzalez/Sweeney isn’t. And right now I don’t feel like Buck is reliable enough to affect that calculus. The guy is made of glass.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Gonzalez is part of a good hitting OF
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 1, 2008 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a very "what have you done for me lately" POV, IMO
The guy is 22 and was supposed to be in AAA all season. He’s extremely talented and doesn’t need to fix much to thrive. I think he’ll be fine.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 1, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he needs to fix his entire approach and stop swinging at pitches that aren't strikes
His plate discipline is terrible, and that’s going to kill him in the big leagues if he doesn’t start accepting that he might have to draw a walk or two. I think he’ll come around at some point, but for me he’s not a guarantee to be a starter at the beginning of next year. I’d make him earn it along with everybody else.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the treatment that Barton got this year
then Gonzalez shouldn’t even have to report to spring training, NFL-style. Just be there at gametime in whatever Japanese city that will host the A’s first home game next year.
"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.
RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 1, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was supposed to be in AAA all season?
No offense, but I’m not aware of anyone who believed that to be the case. Most people thought he’d be up no later than June.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I remember from most, also, but...
…was that because he was so quick in developing, or because the team had been gutted and he was one of the better players by process of elimination? I would suggest a combination of the two. Barring injuries to others, on a better team he very well might have lasted in AAA at least until September, if not next year entirely.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My feelings are
not that many of the minor leaguers you mentioned are real top prospects. The few decent ones like Outman and a couple of others we can keep by putting them on the 40 man roster and get rid of the DEAD WEIGHT currently on the 40 man roster by DFAing them. If anyone drafts these weaker minor leaguers we could get 50k for each one.
I would keep any decent lefty because teams like to draft them to keep them on their rosters.
by calas on Aug 31, 2008 8:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The A's have about 8 "decent lefties"
Can’t keep ’em all…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
8 Rincons is at least 7 too many.
"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.
RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 1, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems odd to me that DLS would be rule 5 eligible
where have you seen that?
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 31, 2008 8:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
De Los Santos
was signed by the White Sox on December 2, 2005, at age 19 years, 10 months. Under the prior CBA he would have had to be protected after his third season. The 2006 CBA provides that players signed at age 19 and up do not have to be protected until after their fourth season.
by Soaker on Aug 31, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I’ll edit the post to reflect that information.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't cut Emil Brown
I have no idea why, mind you, but apparently you can’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 31, 2008 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Easy answer
Because cutting him would make me happy.
And piss on me…

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 31, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was about to say that too
Also, I don’t see Foulke getting cut, though I guess it’s possible. The guy fought his way back from injury for most of the year. It may not be logical to keep Brown and Foulke on the 40-man roster, but I don’t see logic playing much role in the number of at bats Brown received all year.
I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
by richwol1 on Aug 31, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emil
Are the A’s really that desperate for a compensatory draft pick…and will his performance even earn them one?
"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.
RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 1, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It won't
At least if this guy has reverse engineered the Elias rankings like he claimed he has, Brown is nowhere near the B level
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by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, that's an interesting post/blog
Who’s Brian?
"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.
RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 1, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember right
he was a tigers fan/blogger attending VT went the shooting went down there, he was one of the ones who was killed.
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by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's interesting
What I need to know is if teams know if guys are Type A or B before the arby deadline. If he’s not Type B, don’t offer arbitration. If he is, offer it and hope he doesn’t accept because he’s unhappy about playing time.
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if they don't know...
…one would think they’d be able to guess fairly accurately. However, I don’t see an issue with them knowing beforehand, so I’d find it curious if they didn’t.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if they didn't know before, now they can read that guy's website and find out...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much.
Brown, Hannahan, Foulke, and (probably) Sarloos aren’t going anywhere. Before the end of the regular season, I mean. Might as well scratch them from the list.
There is some dead wood on there, though, and nothing would be gained from keeping them or lost from releasing them.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gray has been very good the last two months, IIRC
I doubt he’s being considered as DFA fodder at this point.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2008 10:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's pretty pointless, though
He’s never had an impressive season in the minors, and the A’s have a ton of bullpen depth. Also, it’s extremely hard to believe that any team would put him on their 40-man if they dfa’d him, so minor league free agency is the only way we’re going to lose him. Which would not be a big deal in the slightest. The only thing I can think of is that good stuff that hasn’t been harnessed, but I’ve never seen any reports of that… The org must like something about him though, since they’ve dfa’d about 5 guys who would seem to be more valuable on paper. Still, it’s hard to see him surviving the “rule 5 avoidance” additions to the 40 man in the offseason.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 31, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
About Mark Ellis...
Assuming the team wants to collect a draft pick for him, he needs to be offered arbitration, so…
Does that mean he needs to remain on the A’s 40-man roster list until someone else signs him? Because that obviously has 40-man roster implications too.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2008 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, or at least, I believe the answer is no
As soon as a player files for free agency (or by the 16th day of the World Series if he doesn’t… the act of filing for free agency is purely a PR gimmick), he is removed from the 40-man roster. He is re-added to the roster if he accepts arbitration.
I don’t really understand why opinion has moved so far in the direction of not signing him. His hitting “decline” is purely due to a BABIP which is 45 points under his career average. Ray Durham also had a BABIP way below normal last year, and promptly rebounded to decency this year. Mark Ellis is like Ray Durham except his defense is “godlike” instead of “sub-mediocre.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I turned against signing Ellis when I stopped believing in the playoff prospects of the 2009 A's.
I don’t see him being the 2010-14 2B.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 1, 2008 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reluctantly, I agree with this.
If 2009/10 were doable, then I was/am all in favor of re-signing Ellis. While I don’t feel that it would be a waste to re-sign him anyway, I don’t see as much benefit, so it has become kind of a wash for me.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis' body is breaking down
We’ve already seen the best he ever will be. It can only get worse from here.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 5:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably true
We’ve seen him be a 3 wins above average player for the last 4 years. It can only get worse from here.
You can say the same about Manny Ramirez, but he was a worse player to begin with… and, yet, I’ve seen people advocate signing him to a five year contract. (??!)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicks dig the longball
The real question is his shoulder. If it’s going to be a problem, we can’t really re-sign him (and remember, it was initially supposed to be a career-ender). On a normal progression, he’d be well worth having around. On a Chavez-esque injury-related free-fall, not so much.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Sep 1, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I have zero confidence in the ability of the A's to properly evaluate his shoulder
Of course, that goes either way. If he re-signs, I expect his arm to fall off. If he leaves, I expect him to be fully healthy for the next N years…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding.
I’m now expecting Harden to reel off 4 Cy Young Awards in a row.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Durham was healthy
Ellis’ shoulder seems to be getting worse.
That said, I still think Ellis’ hitting “decline” as you put it is real because his 2007 performance was flukish.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Sep 1, 2008 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, because it's AN and we tend to react very strongly to the short term
Remember when we wanted to demote Suzuki all the way back to Single-A? Or when Wes Bankston was going to solve all of our power problems and discover the secret of time travel?
Smart-assery aside, I tend to agree that re-signing Ellis for a few more non-competitive years doesn’t seem to make much sense. Frankly, there are way too many washed up old men on this roster (Foulke, DiNardo, I’m looking at you). If we’re gonna suck next year, let’s suck out loud. Get the kids some ML innings.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 1, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see no reason why the team needs to or should suck next year
and in point of fact, if the A’s suck next year it would pretty much amount to an admission that the rebuilding plan has failed, because it means none of the “next generation” players has done anything of consequence in MLB.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
I’d be inclined to agree with you if the A’s end up snagging a bat or 2 in the off-season. Despite all the talk about the outfield, I’m more inclined toward upgrading the left side of the infield. Like, yesterday. I love Chavy and I’m even a little partial to Crosby, but impact bats are so necessary.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 1, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with that...
If the A’s suck next year it wouldn’t mean the rebuilding had failed; it would mean the rebuilding was taking place and hadn’t borne fully developed fruit yet.
Next year the A’s will be playing 23-25 year-olds all over the place – far too early to write any of them off. If they STILL suck in 3 years, when all those guys are in their peak, then yeah, the rebuild failed.
Next year’s team wasn’t expected to be good. That’s why the brass was ok with trading Harden/Gaudin and co., guys signed beyond ‘08 – they didn’t figure to be a part of a playoff team this year or next, in the FO’s estimation.
I guess it depends on what you mean by suck though. The A’s won’t lose 100 games, but they aren’t a playoff team in ’09, either.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they're under .500 next year, that's a real problem
because next year’s team, in theory, features most of the rotation, almost all of the bullpen, the outfield and good parts of the infield of the “next contender.” Under .500 means no progress from the majority of those players.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
I mean we prob dont have, Doolittle, Carter, Anderson, Cahill next year. And outta Cardenas/Brown/Donaldson/Spencer id expect one of them to be pretty good as well. But likely wont be with the team till 2010.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Sep 1, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that...
but you have to ask yourself how much of an upgrade you think those guys represent. If it’s only 2 or 3 wins each and the team wins 75 games next year… I mean, the math isn’t very hard here. There isn’t enough there. If the team wins 85 games, that’s a whole ’nother story, even though neither total would get the team to the postseason.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope to be around 500.
If ifs 4-5 games under that not too big a of deal to me.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Sep 1, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just that some of the best prospects
won’t be with the team but that the guys who are already here (Gonzalez, Gio, Barton, Gallagher, Cunningham) will still be young/not at their best. Plus, Cahill and Anderson are the two best prospects by a widish margin.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but
the question isn’t an abstract “which prospect is the best,” but a specific “how much better is this guy than the guy he’s replacing.” Trevor Cahill replacing Justin Duchscherer is worth a lot less wins than if he’s replacing Dan Meyer.
Right now the rotation seems to be a lot better than the lineup, so the marginal benefit from the pitching prospects is lower than that from the hitting prospects.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the team wins 85 games, that’s a whole ’nother story, even though neither total would get the team to the postseason.
only if they were playing in the NL West.
by mrod on Sep 2, 2008 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Because guys like Carter, Cardenas, Weeks, Cahill, and Anderson probably wont start next year with the team. Guys like Gonzalez and Cunningham probably will not have fully developed. You have to be patient. I dont expect us to contend, or float around in the race, until 2010.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 1, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a real problem, but its not 'the end".
I think they’ll be at .500, but not contending, ala Toronto in 2008.
I see the future. I see cake.
by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It all depends why they suck
It’s possible that Swooney and Carlos and a couple of the pitchers could show a gradual, but not dramatic improvement and the team still finishes with 79 wins. Yeah, we’d like everybody to break out but that won’t happen. But some improvement, Anderson and Cahill developing further, plus perhaps a free agent hitter in 2010, and the team could “easily” jump from 79 to 95 wins.
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not unheard of...
…as the A’s did go from 81 to 104 wins in 1987/88. There are some similarities here, prospects coming together at once, and so on.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
If they suck next season that certainly doesn’t mean the rebuilding has failed. Like you said there will be alot of young guys playing next season and they are still learning and adjusting to the majors. Got to give them a little time and not judge so quickly. I think the A’s have alot of great talent in their young guys and I love watching them.
Though I agree with Joey C on..I love Chavy and I too am a little partial to Crosby :)
by ilovegregsmith on Sep 1, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree with you PT
As was mentioned in another thread by grover (lower case “g” and all, sir!) myself, and a few others:
Why is everyone so set in “the A’s are not going to be competitive next year, maybe not even in 2010.” My thoughts on this are twofold: Part 1-
WTF? If the A’s are even remotely interested in the few remaining fans they currently have, they sure as shit better give it their best shot, starting next spring! I’m gonna be a fan no matter what but I’m gonna be very selective on how I spend my money. No more just forking over my hard earned cash for said team on field lacking any true purpose. I need to see some results and believe the organization is on the right track……….but I still want to see the results before I buy season tickets again.
Part 2…..-Even if they fall short of the post season next year but at least busted their asses in the process, I’m cool with that. And then 2010 looks even better after that. Maybe it’s just the conflict of wanting to always be optimistic to drown out my own pessimism but I hope the A’s are thinking “sooner rather than much later down the road.”
by mrod on Sep 2, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Busting their ass" is not what I'm interested in
I can’t think of what would be more depressing than a team that “busts its ass”, metaphorically speaking, and still wins 75 games.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do we know about Scott Mitchinson?
Anybody seen him play or know of an updated scouting report on him?
I realize he’s very old for his level, but he’s put up some starting pitching numbers in low-A this year as well.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2008 10:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mitchinson was a minor league Rule 5 draftee last season
Mostly based on his great K/BB ratio. To his credit, he’s maintained that this season. I think he had a minor injury at some point this year that kept him out for a while.
I’d hope the team would put him on the reserved list for the minor league Rule 5 draft, but I don’t see him getting a 40-man roster spot (nor do I see anyone else drafting him for their major league roster).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the qualifications and rules regarding the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft?
And can somebody find me a link to the exact Rule 5 draft rules?
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cot's Contracts
The glossary section on the left hand side, about halfway down. It’s excellent.
The Cliff’s Notes is, the minor league portion of the draft allows teams to protect players at each level. If they leave them unprotected, other teams can poach the player and put him in their own system…but I believe the selecting team also has to promote him a level, too. (I could be completely off on this part, maybe they don’t even need to promote them, might need to consult Cot’s to clarify).
So, hypothetical: The A’s leave Mitchinson unprotected on their minor league rosters. Another franchise believes that Mitchinson is capable of being a AA or AAA starter at this point. They select him in the minor league portion of the draft and he is placed on their AA or AAA team.
I think Mitchinson is actually a poor hypothetical though because he’ll be a minor league free agent, and I don’t know how minor league free agents figure in to the protecton process.
Occasionally, though, a guy selected in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 can become a big leaguer. Eugenio Velez of the Giants was a minor league Rule 5 draftee.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here it is from Cot's
The Rule 5 draft also includes two minor-league phases. In the AAA phase, a player not protected on his club’s 40-man roster or 38-man AAA reserve list may be selected for $12,000. In the AA phase, a player not protected on his club’s 40-man roster, 38-man AAA reserve list or 37-man AA reserve list may be selected for $4,000. A player selected in the minor-league phase of the Rule 5 draft is not required to play the next season with his drafting club at the higher organizational level.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I thought there was some sort of age/service time thing
where guys were no longer Rule 5 (major league) eligible. I guess I was wrong on that.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alrighty
I certainly think he’s one of the top 78 prospects with the requisite time served in the organization, so he shouldn’t be eligible to be taken unless someone wants to put him on their major league roster. Which would be ballsy, but I’ve seen weirder moves.
Incidentally, I don’t think he’s a MILB free agent, as he hasn’t passed 7 years since he was signed yet.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
I thought that’s how he had joined the A’s. Didn’t know he was a minor league Rule 5er.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The document containing the exact rules is confidential
Rule 5 is part of the Major League Rules. Most of this stuff is basic rules about transactions, scheduling, territorial rights, etc. But there are a few items in there that they don’t want to discuss publicly, such as Rule 29, the Major League Disaster Plan. It would be great if they would publish most of the document somewhere on the Web and just redact the sensitive sections, but that hasn’t happened yet. So we rely on abstracts such as those provided on the Cot’s side, which are great but don’t answer every detailed question.
by Soaker on Sep 1, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rule 29 provides for a trip to Midland, replaced by Keith Foulke
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every major sport has a "disaster plan", and...
…I cannot think of a reason they need to be kept secret. It’s not a pleasant thought, of course, and I hope it NEVER has to be used, but hiding it seems kind of silly.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig's MLB 'Skull & Bones' Brothers
Might disagree with you!
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Sep 2, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when life was slow and oh so mellow
owner of a lonely tarp
by oakath on Sep 1, 2008 8:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
good timing
I was trying to cobble this together in a coffee shop the other day.
It turns out that there are fewer guys who need to be protected this year than I had thought. Outman for sure, Baisley should be protected too. I’d also protect Guzman. I don’t know whether Mitchinson needs to be protected or not, it looks like it, but I’d do it at the expense of some of the other fringe guys.
Recker is fine to protect, the way the A’s one time protected both Baker and Brown, just to keep AAA/AAAA catching depth, same for Powell. But it’s not tragic if the A’s only keep one of these guys on the 40-man. Right now they are more insurance policies than prospects.
Herrera has come around since getting off to a slow start coming back to playing again. Hitting .278/.341./.467 since the all star break. Keep him and ditch Robnett. It’s not tragic if Herrera goes, but with all the dead weight on the roster and very few guys coming up this year, why risk it. I’d keep him over Robnett and Denorfia, and probably Murton too.
Are you sure that Sellers needs to be protected this year? I thought he was one of the batch of next year protect guys.
Brown, DiNardo, Saarloos, Foulke, Mike Sweeney, Frank Thomas, Embree all could be gone at the end of the year
Denorfia, Gray, Hannahan (if we package some prospects together for a young player, It could be a 3B, in which case I don’t know that we’d keep Hannahan around as a caddy), Robnett, and Herrera and even Davis are all candidates for removal from the roster if space is needed.
It actually seems pretty easy this year, easier than I thought it was going to be.
by jakarta on Sep 1, 2008 8:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't anticipate a roster crunch really
Mainly because I don’t think it’ll be necessary to put a lot of the eligible guys on the 40-man roster. They might be ok prospects, but not close enough to being ready that another team will put them on their 25-man roster all year.
As for DLS, maybe i’m imagining this but isn’t there some kind of waiver that a team can get for a player who misses a whole year to injury that’ll push his clock back a year (sorta like an extra year of eligibility in college)?
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see much of a roster crunch coming, either.
They always bring some up, but most teams, including the A’s, almost never utilize the full capacity of the expanded roster. I think they’ll pick and choose, maybe remove 1 or 2 from the 40-man roster, FT moving to the 60-day DL being one of them, but that’d be about it.
Now, if they truly are committed to the rebuilding, I’m thinking maybe they should do a few more, and lose some that they already know have no longer term shot, but I don’t think they will.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 1, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Sellers is Rule 5 eligible this year
He’s the same draft class as Baisley.
But unlike Baisley, I don’t think it’s a lock to protect Sellers. The downside to adding Sellers now is that he’s not close to being a big-league contributor yet, and the team would be burning option years on him in ‘09 and ’10 when he wasn’t close to doing anything for the big league team. And he’s only 22. So by the time he’s logically ready to contribute something – when he’s 24-25, after a full AAA season or two – the team is hamstrung because it can’t option it down.
I’m optimistic that Sellers wouldn’t be picked if the team leaves him unprotected. For an interesting comp, last year Diory Hernandez was Rule 5 eligible and he wasn’t picked, despite having pretty good AA numbers.
Here’s Diory Hernandez, and here’s Sellers.
Conversely, Baisley’s a lock because he’s getting it done in AAA, and he (hopefully) will compete for the starting 3b job next year.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
both were in 05 draft
baisley college pick
sellers from highschool
dont highschool players have an extra yr of eligibility before rule 5 eligible.
such as this last season…04 college picks were eligible like robnett who was put on 40 man…webb is eligible this yr since he was an 04 hs pick
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 1, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sellers is a little like Cunningham in this respect though
A guy who is eligible for the Rule 5 at an unusually young age. He was drafted and signed at age 19 in June ’05. (He was born Feb. 1, 1986, according to thebaseballcube).
And Rule 5 eligibilty is determined by age rather than high school/college. Teams have to protect 19-and-older signees after 4 years, 18-and-under signees after 5.
Cunningham and Sellers were 19 year olds when drafted in ‘05, hence both would’ve been Rule 5 eligible for the first time this year, I believe.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's should not protect Sellers, IMO
The reason why is simple— he’s a supernumerary. The team already has Cliff Pennington, who’s basically strictly better as a utility player, and also Gregorio Petit, likewise much better than Sellers. I think it’s safe to say that if both of those guys are starting (thus creating a need for Sellers to back them up), the team has a real problem on its hands.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason why there are "fewer guys who need to be protected"
is that a bunch of them have already been called up, eg Cunningham, Pennington, etc.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gio too
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that Frank is done for the year,
I’ll bet he goes on the 60-Day DL and that we get to see Baisley play some 3b here pretty quick.
He’s the only other position player from that group who I could conceivably getting significant at-bats next year. I’m anxious to see if he can displace Hannahan.
Does anyone know anything about Baisley defensively?
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't even imagine how bad Baisley would have to be to not be able to replace Miley
Of course, I think Pennington should be playing at third every day, too. There’s just no point in Hannamontanahan getting playing time anymore.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wih ellis injured
they shouldve also got pennington some time at 2b..then him just platoon with hannahan.
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 1, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Baisley is a butcher with the glove it may be closer than you think
Hannahan has been probably a win to a win and a half better than avg 3B with the glove.
OK, I forgot Hannahan was that bad with the bat. Strike my headline.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely do not believe Hannahan isn't in the bottom 5-10 of 3Bs defensively
From the eye test, he’s terrible. He has the worst arm I can recall at third, very little mobility, etc. I can’t wait to see what UZR says about him after the season. I’ll be shocked if he’s better than -5 runs.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we can disagree on which metric to use, but he's the third best in RZR
It would be weird if he were that bad according to UZR, after being that good in RZR.
Even if you hate the metric, that link is worth a click just for a reminder as to who all’s playing third base around the league. No. 25-30 are pretty bad, and it’s evidence of why we haven’t DFA’d Hannahan yet.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's awesome in Dewan's +/- too
+15, 3rd behind Beltre and Rolen.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rzr and dewan use the same data
ZR thinks he’s middle of the pack. UZR uses the same data as ZR, so I bet it will think he’s middle of the pack, probably a bit better.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but I see the awful and put Hannahan right in that group
I honestly just never, ever see him make a difficult play. He makes fairly routine plays look difficult. I’m just not sure how he’s ranked so high unless he’s been ridiculously lucky (as in A’s pitchers just don’t allow that many difficult ground balls to go his way).
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he passes most people's eye test
He’s definitely not one of the worst.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm quite interested in what Tango's fan poll will say about Hannahan's defense.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet Baisley can out-hit Hannahan a little
But IF he’s a butcher defensively, and IF we can agree that Hannahan is a very good defensive third baseman (I know that isn’t consensus, but I’m in that camp), then Baisley would have to out-hit Miley Montanahan by a good margin to be an improvement. Not just a few OPS points, but like, 50-75, maybe, in order to account for Hanny’s very good D.
Again, I know nothing of Baisley’s D. If anyone does I’d love to find out.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not in that camp
I’d put Hannahan somewhere between “piece of defensive garbage” and “If he could hit I could live with him.” I just haven’t seen anything out of him that makes me think he’s good at third. His “great” plays are plays good 3Bs make with ease, and Barton has saved a good 25-30 errors are pathetic throws.
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly he's pretty good at third
He’s slow as molasses, but speed isn’t really part of the defensive job description at third base…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see him getting to anything that's not hit pretty much right at him
by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At third base, almost all the fieldable balls are hit right at you
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
slow as molasses
Guess I was wrong when I thought my mother was the only person who used that expression
"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.
RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 1, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bit of off-topic FYI:
The Bricktown Showdown (AAA game between PCL and IL Champions) is Sept. 16th, so that’s the last day the Rivercats could possibly still be in action. The A’s have a day off the 15th, and start a series against the Angels on the 16th.
We might see Outman, Gray(?), Baisley, Buck, CarGon, Norfie, and Petit right around then, or maybe a bit before.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 1:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to see Outman and Buck up before that.
the rest can wait until the Rivercat action is over.
I see the future. I see cake.
by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman wouldn't have much to do in Oakland since he wouldn't be starting
and he’ll presumably start the year in AAA next year.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Greg "Nibbles" Smith and Gio Gonzalez in the rotation?
He’ll get PLENTY of work.
I see the future. I see cake.
by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baisley is actually the guy I want to see the most
I’d feel a lot better about next year if it looks like the team has a semi-competent hitter to handle third if Chavez’s shoulder is still cocked up.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still hoping upon hope that they have Barton doing a ton of IF work this offseason.
Probably a pipe dream, I know.
That said, I think he’s more mature and receptive to coaching. I have no basis for the statement, but it could very well be that his failed attempts at 3B and LF in the minors were as much a product of being way younger than everybody else and having a “hot shit prospect” type of mentality.
IMO, his defense at first base has gotten noticeably better throughout the season and I think it would warrant another try at third — especially if Chavez is limited to 1B/DH duties moving forward.
by mikev on Sep 1, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Barton has been very good
Here’s the reason I think Barton is pretty awesome defensively. Barton has made some pretty sillyass errors. He’s dropped a handful of popups and botched some pretty routine grounders. But he makes a LOT of plays. I think he has 12 errors right now. That’s only 12 plays he hasn’t made that he should have. I think he’s saved a lot of errors on throws, plus he is a really good athlete and a lot of first basemen just aren’t (or aren’t anymore). Barton takes away hits plenty. He just needs to cut out those goofy errors.
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely agree with every point you made.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But I also want to see Jeff Gray because I’m still not convinced he actually exists.
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a...
…Gray area.
har har
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
outman/sweeney called up
Mike Sweeney, Josh Outman joining A’s
From Chronicle Staff Writer Susan Slusser at Raley Field
I’m at the River Cats’ final game of the regular season getting some information for an offday story and, as expected, Mike Sweeney and left-hander Josh Outman are both already en route to join the A’s in Kansas City.
Sacramento manager Todd Steverson was impressed with Outman in his brief time here; Outman worked in five games and went 1-0 with a 1.76 ERA, giving up nine hits in 15 1/3 innings.He’ll be adding some depth to the A’s bullpen. Steverson said Outman was hitting 97 mph and worked in the mid-90s consistently.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…;entry_id=29733
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 1, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit. 97???
I never heard he threw that hard.
by mikev on Sep 1, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here
that’s awesome news
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 1, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm
Mike Sweeney is on the 60-day DL. Someone has to get axed when he comes back, unless Big Frank is already on the shelf for the year.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet its Dinardo.
That lovely line in Sacramento really helped his case for a DFA.
I see the future. I see cake.
by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman link from a year and a half ago:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2007/4/26/122315/740
Has him at 90-94, so that report seems plausible enough.I am growing weary of soft-tossing, nibbling lefties, so it seems like a welcome change…
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just his name should put fear into opposing hitters
LOL
Looking forward to seeing him in action
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
by Trainman on Sep 1, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's Eveland
He’s more of the “hard throwing, no idea where it’s going” lefty…
Kind of begs the question of why the team has so many f$#%ing lefties, though. If Bobby Kielty could play against the A’s everyday, he’d be in contention for the MVP.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably could have stopped at, "If Bobby Kielty could play."
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 1, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone tell me...
What the consensus is on Baisley defensively? I’ve seen a couple of games with him at third where he looked spectacular, however I’ve only found mixed results here and elsewhere.
by MrMoneyBaller on Sep 1, 2008 9:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Look up about 30 posts or so...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosterbating the 2009 Athletics
C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B Eric Chavez
2B Eric Patterson
3B Jeff Baisley
SS Bobby Crosby
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF Travis Buck
CF Carlos Gonzalez
DH Jack Cust
C2 Rob Bowen
BN Ryan Sweeney
BN Cliff Pennington
BN Jack Hannahan
BN Matt Murton
SP Justin Duchscherer
SP Sean Gallagher
SP Greg Smith
SP Dana Eveland
SP Gio Gonzalez
RP Huston Street
RP Joey Devine
RP Brad Ziegler
RP Andrew Brown
RP Santiago Casilla
RP Dallas Braden
RP Jerry Blevins
With possible midseason callup candidates of Cahill, Anderson, Simmons, Mazzaro and Outman.
If Chavez, my some miracle, can still play 3B, than put Barton at 1B.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Sep 2, 2008 12:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Crazy to think
that the A’s could literally call up an entire new rotation midseason— that’s depth, folks.
Although the fact that that scenario is obviously ludicrous makes me think that Cahill and Anderson won’t be rushed to the majors. Which is good.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill and Anderson are the best of the 5, but are also the "furthest" from the Majors
as both have just a half year of AA under their belts. Simmons, Mazzaro and Outman will be at AAA next year, but I wouldn’t be supprised if Cahill and Anderson were too.
But if I had to put them in order of probable call up, it would be;
Simmons
Outman
Mazzaro
Cahill
Anderson
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Sep 2, 2008 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barton
No way he should be sitting on the bench next year..that would be retarded.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 2, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
because he’s done so well this season, and deserves to not have his role questioned
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the very least he should have a roster spot over Hannahan
I would also have Petit over Pennington as a reserve (or Petit starting with Pennington as the utility guy with Crosby playing on some distant planet).
by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like this idea
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hannahan
I’d rather have Hannahan as a reserve, because unlike Barton, he has nothing to gain from AAA.
There’s some incentive to keeping Barton in AAA, delaying service time until he’s actually valuable at his position, and then bringing him up.
Hannahan has zero upside, and zero development to stunt, and he plays a few positions competently. He’s almost certain to still be there next year – either starting at third, or as Baisley (3b) and Chavy’s (1b) backup.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Marco.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of those odd situations where Pennington is a better backup
but Petit is a better starter. Pennington is a great baserunner, so he’s useful as a PR in the late innings. Petit’s value is his defense, which requires him to play a lot of innings to get a lot out of it.
If you exile Crosby to Outer Lappland, I agree Petit should be starting. If not, though, I’d rather have Pennington as the utility guy.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remind me what Chavez has done this year?
by mikev on Sep 2, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotten hurt?
if he’s anywhere close to healthy, he deserves a spot over barton, imo.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
given
that it comes down to those two.
both of them > hannahan
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm betting that he's penciled in as the primary DH next year.
it seems that playing the infield is hazardous to his health.
by mikev on Sep 2, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
that works for me. i’m a cust fan, but as we all know…four outfielders usually get pretty decent ab’s on the a’s.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should be starting SOMEWHERE...
be it AAA or the majors. The worst thing they could possibly do would be to have him hanging around uselessly as the backup.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am fine with
barton starting in AAA. i just don’t think that, given what’s transpired this season, he gets off scot-free for next year. he needs to prove himself all over again, IMO. i agree that him sitting the bench doesn’t help him.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 3, 2008 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
Because he has insane amounts of potential and it would be stupid to give up on a guy like him after one year…
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 2, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I reply to a secific post, and it puts my post way below the one I replied to.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 2, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is annoying
The posting thing. And if Barton isn’t starting somewhere next year, the A’s are insane.
by jdr on Sep 2, 2008 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
In this case, that is actually what it’s supposed to do… it’s threaded… everything above this was responses to an earlier response to that post.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who said it's giving up?
the guy is clearly overmatched. if he’s not our best option to start at first next season, why should we start him there?
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 3, 2008 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't quite understand the sudden hype over Baisley...
…as if he’s the savior for 3B sent straight from God.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, but he's the best internal option we have
that we haven’t seen in the Show yet. If he sticks, we don’t have a pressing need to get outside help.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." -- Connie Mack
by GreenSocks on Sep 2, 2008 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not like we picked up Mike Schmidt in the Blanton Trade
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Sep 2, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hype?
People are saying “hey, he might not suck horribly.” Are our standards of “hype” that low?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, that's kind of how I'm reading it...
…"hey, he might not suck horribly.".
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rajai Davis will probably be on the team next year
And I wouldn’t be surprised if CarGon starts the year in AAA at his expense.
CarGon may be forced to hit his way out of AAA. That wouldn’t be such a bad thing IMO.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ditto
He’s so young that the dumb thing would be to burn up his service time when he’s obviously not ready.
by jdr on Sep 2, 2008 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to be more accurate
I’d make him walk his way out of AAA. That will change everything for him.
by jdr on Sep 2, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Murton and Norfie both have one option left in '09
Rajai doesn’t, and Hannahan can refuse to be sent down and become a FA instead.
For sure, those factors are influencing, and will influence, roster decisions.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd also be surprised to see Cunningham play his way into starting over Sweeney...
… just in the span of the remainder of this season and next Spring Training. That’d be akin to what Buck did, and that came out of left field (baaaaaaaaaaad puuuuuuuuuuuuun).
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 2, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not understanding why Hannahan would have the refusal right
He’s not even close to the service time cutoff for that.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did some serious digging the other night
Traced the transactional history of a bunch of our fringe guys.
After a brief 40-man roster stint, Hanny was outrighted to the minors once before with Detroit, and then eventually was re-added to the 40-man roster. A player can be outrighted once in his career and must accept the assignment.
But if a team outrights him to the minors again (quoting Cot’s)…
Thereafter, a player has the choice of 1) rejecting the assignment and becoming a free agent immediately, or 2) accepting the assignment and become a free agent at the end of the season if he has not been returned to the 40-man roster.
Paul: It’s a little vague, but I interpret that to mean that the A’s don’t have the contractual control over Hannahan that they do over, say, Eveland. I interpret that to mean that the A’s can’t send Hannahan down without risking him rejecting it and becoming an FA.
And I since I think that there are 2-4 worse starting third basemen in the league than Hanny, I assume someone else would take him if they could.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can't outright him, that's correct
but as far as I’m aware, and I looked this up once so I’m fairly sure, he’s only used one option. He was called up in May 2006, optioned down in June, then waived that offseason. He cleared waivers (using up his one outright). The next season, he was traded to the A’s and immediately called up to the majors. Since then, he’s been continuously on the active roster. As far as I can tell, 2006 was the only season in which he used an option year.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true that he only used one option
So as far you know, Paul, you think the team still has the right to option him down? He can refuse to be sent down, even though he’s been waived and cleared waivers before?
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 3, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Options and outrights are counted differently
So, optioning him down = capiche, nothing he can do about it. Waiving him = he can refuse the outright and become a free agent.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 3, 2008 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good
So in theory, he and and Hannahan could be competing for one roster spot in ’09, with the loser headed to Sac.
(I’m just fully assuming that Chavy is either 1b/DH or unhealthy at this point).
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 4, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see the '09 opening-day OF picture like this:
DH: Cust (L)
LF: Cunningham®
CF: Davis®
RF: Sweeney®
4th OF: Buck (L)
…with Cargon, Denorfia, and Murton all starting the year in AAA. Norfie and Murton still have an option left in ’09.
You can get away with 4 listed outfielders in that group because you’ll also have Patterson and Cust to fill in if need be. There’s some nice balance there of L-R hitting and good defense. Is Cunningham good enough defensively to be our opening day CFer?
Obviously I’d like to have three guys hit well enough to bump Rajai out of there. But until CarGon can be an .875-.900 guy in AAA, and really blow the door off of Sacramento like Cunningham did, I’d leave Rajai in there for his superior defense. That might take half of ’09.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how the hell that starting outfield got trademarked
I was trying to show which side of the plate they hit from, with Sweeney of course being the lefty.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just carved it in stone... we're stuck with it now.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of liked it
It makes it look like we have legitimate hitters in the outfield.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 3, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Rajai Davis is starting on opening day,
and not because of some rash of injuries or something, I think it’s safe to assume that the A’s are deliberately tanking the season. I mean, the guy has a sub-.600 OPS.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
But if you ignore April and May, he’s been a .700 OPS player. And in August, he’s hit .347 and has a .789 OPS.
Since he’s one of the ten fastest guys in the league and arguably the game’s best defensive center fielder, I can understand the team giving him a longer offensive leash than anyone else.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and with CarGon, I'd make the same argument I'd make with Barton
Having a 22-year-old up when they can’t OPS .650 is tough to swallow when you’re a low-budget team. It makes more sense to use their service time 1-2 years later when they can contribute close to league-average offense for their position.
That’s part of the value of guys like Rajai or Emil – they’re placeholders who ensure that prospects don’t have to play prior to earning their way out of AAA with great hitting.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 2, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whee
What an ugly OPS for such a sexy BA.
When Rajai is smoking hot with his bat, he’s a below average hitter.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Sep 2, 2008 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A secondary average of .095 is borderline incredible for an MLB player
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For perspective
Dunn: .528 (best in MLB)
F. Sanchez: .135 (worst in MLB)
Both among qualified players, of which there are 156.
.095 is, well, enough to make a saaaaaaaaad panda.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Sep 2, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even a +25 on defense, which is incredible,
wouldn’t get you back to even league average if you have a .600 OPS.
What I can’t figure out with Davis is why his walk rate, which was very good for a punch-and-judy hitter like him in 2006 and 2007, abruptly dropped to Garret Anderson levels this season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irregular playing time leading to pressing at the plate?
Or, if one contends that his playing time was fairly irregular in his other stints as well, perhaps he sees this as a unique opportunity to establish himself— what with all the inexperience and the general craptitude of the offense— and is pressing even harder than he did with the Giants and Pirates.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 3, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's at least partially a function of superior AL pitching.
Superior pitchers never really need to pitch around or nibble with .600-OPS hitters.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Sep 3, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you're going to go ahead and make sense...
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Sep 3, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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