Kurt at 2B

by thashyt on Aug 25, 2008 12:40 PM PDT

I hate when people compare new players to Hall-Of-Famers. Yet I am going to do it here more to complete my argument than to say "Kurt Suzuki is going to be the next Craig Biggio."

Basically I'm saying we should at least tinker with the idea of moving Kurt to 2B. Especially as Donaldson moves up the system. And now that Bowen is showing he can play. My reason is simple: At this point, it looks like Zook's bat is too important to not have in every game. But the opposition of that is we cannot afford to wear him down at catcher 140 games a season.

The reason i chose Biggio is obvious, his bat meant too much to the Astros to keep behind the plate. And at age 24 (Kurt's age going into this season), Kurt actually has better "slash" stats. (Kurt: .300/.354/.399/.753; Biggio in 1990: .276/.342/.348/.690). That was the year that Biggio played 150 games because they couldn't keep his bat out of the lineup. So they gave him "days off" by playing him in the outfield. Obviously Biggio has more a penchant for stealing bases than Kurt (Biggio had 25 SBs in 1990 and 11 CS, where as Kurt has 2 SBs and 2 CSs) which made him a more prototypical leadoff hitter, but nevertheless Kurt should be hitting first or second with our current lineup.

So with Ellis likely to leave after this year, i say have Crosby/Pennington/Petit fight it out for the starting SS and 2B spots, but begin to have Kurt try out 2B and outfield. Look, our team is offensively deprived. And we can't keep Kurt's bat out of the lineup. But we also can't have him behind the plate EVERY SINGLE GAME.

So lets at least take a look at what he can do at other positions. It worked for Biggio. What do you guys think?

Tweet Comment 27 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

?'s

1. Has he ever played in the field in his career? (don’t think so)

2. Just because Bowen goes yard once we think he needs to play more?
(So Hannahan should be playing every day too right?)

3. Final question, If we are worried about Suzuki why not just play him a
few less games, giving him a few more days off behind the plate or DH him here or there to spell others while keeping his bat in the lineup.

Changing positions in the Pros is not as easy as it is in our video games or on paper.
in the lineup.

by HRH on Aug 25, 2008 12:55 PM PDT reply actions

1. No he has never played the field in his career. I’m not say we should start him there, but what I was referring to was that the Astros gave Biggio “days off” by playing him in the field. And since we’re not playing for anything anyway and we have Rajai Davis playing outfield every other day and Ellis hurt, we might at least take a look at Kurt playing elsewhere.

2. Umm…Hannahan does essentially play everyday. He’s second on the team in games, and sixth on the team in ABs. But Bowen plays a very tiny bit. Kurt is not a big catcher, he will wear down if he plays 120+ games a year at catcher. Bowen doesn’t have particularly good numbers, but he did throw out Suzuki stealing second and he does deserver a look. If for no other reason than to decide if we are going to keep him or have Powell, Newman, or Donaldson as the long-term backup for Suzuki.

Ideally itd be best for Suzuki to develop another position so that he can platoon at catcher.

3. That would be ideal. But……all of our power bats are DHs.

Look, I’m not saying that we’re just gonna tell him to play 2b and he’s gonna turn into Mark Ellis. I’m not even saying he should be the starting 2B. If you read the passage, I say we should have the Crosby/Pennington/Petit trio fight out the middle infield starting spots. But i think we should experiment with Zook in the field somewhere. 2B and LF make the most sense right now because those are the positions we are weak at for the moment.

by thashyt on Aug 25, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Bowen is not a starting catcher, sorry.

If Suzuki eventually starts playing an infield position it won’t be because of Rob Bowen.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Aug 25, 2008 1:04 PM PDT reply actions

It shouldn't be because of Bowen

The reason I’m saying he should play another position is:

1.) the team can’t hit…there’s only a two or three guys who are above average big league hitters at the moment

2.) Suzuki happen to be one of them

Therefore, we need his bat in the lineup every day.

But…..

As everyone was mentioning earlier in the season, he cannot play every game behind the plate. And we cannot afford to DH him because then we lose the little power we actually have.

by thashyt on Aug 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Not about Bowen or Powell or Jeff Newman for that matter..

It’s not about who the A’s have to replace Suzuki, it’s about preserving what they have in Suzuki’s bat, which appears to be above average. I say that if he can play second base (a huge if) that it’s not a bad idea.

by Dr Pez on Aug 25, 2008 1:06 PM PDT reply actions

Suzuki has an average bat for a Catcher

He would NOT be a good bet for a Second Baseman.

First off, there is very little guarentee to say he will be anything even close to average defensivly at 2B (different skill sets) – We just do not know! Second, his “bat” is not that awesome that we have to send him off Catcher. And having a decent offensive catcher is a PLUS! If we have a good hitting catcher who can play good defense there and call a good game, KEEP HIM THERE. Third, thanks to some trades, we have some replacements waiting in the minors: Patterson, Cardenas, Petit, Pennington, Weeks, Sellers, et al.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Aug 25, 2008 1:54 PM PDT reply actions

Actually he has an above average bat for a catcher

but even going along with what you say. He seems to have quite a very good bat for an Oakland Athletic.

Which is why we need his bat in the lineup.

Playing him at catcher will wear him down. He’s not exactly built like AJ Pierzynski and he’s very young.

And what I’m saying is we don’t know. But we might as well find out.

And let’s be real: Weeks is the next 2B in line. Everyone else is a stopgap until he’s ready.

Though I think Petit should’ve gotten a better look at 2B or SS.

by thashyt on Aug 25, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Cardenas is ahead of Weeks on the depth chart

If Cardenas can not make it at SS. Otherwise, I might see Cardenas shifted to 3B and Weeks at 2B in that situation, but only because Weeks can’t play 3B.

And you say very good for an Oakland Athletic, but that doesn’t mean its very good. Suzuki has a .268 EQA, which isn’t exactly awesome. Its above average, yes, mainly because he is a catcher (.260 EQA is League Average). But it is more a testimate to how bad our offense is and not how good Suzuki is.

And generally, when you talk about moving catchers off their position to give them “rest”, you do not send them to 2nd Base. Sending Suzuki to 2B will not give him rest. Either you DH him or you have him play 1B every once in a while.

But seriously, you are acting like Suzuki is Ichiro instead of Mac.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Aug 25, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions

.268 would be above average for a 2B, too.

In 2007, average EQA for a catcher is .244. For a 2B it’s .259. Suzuki is an above average hitter, period. At either of those two position he’s one of the better guys to have.

I don’t know if he should be moved anywhere though.

by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions

+1

by HRH on Aug 25, 2008 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions

.738 OPS is nothing ourtrageous

We all whined merciously about how bad Kendal was with a .709 OPS (in the good year ‘06). Now Suzuki’s real line is .286 average .352 on base and .386 slugging for a .738 OPS. Now he is a bit better than the average catcher (counting his defense/game calling even higher rating than that), but he is by no means worth playing and/or moving around defensively at any other position than catcher. That he is a “good hitter for an athletic” is sort of a non-point and more an indictment of the current status of the A’s than a glowing endorsement for him. I have to admit a couple of months ago I thought Suzuki was a lost cause at .238 with minimal power, but he seems like he will grow into a very solid catcher, let’s keep him where he will be a strength and not potentially mess him up or derail his development.

by jasonlbe on Aug 25, 2008 3:03 PM PDT reply actions

You really can't use straight OPS for A's players

the park factors are just too huge.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's

by iamawesomer on Aug 25, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Checking OPS+ here are the current AL rankings for this season for each team's primary catcher

Joe Mauer: 134
Kelly Shoppach: 117
Kurt Suzuki: 103
Dioner Navarro: 102
AJ Pierzynski: 101
Ivan Rodriguez: 99 (mostly w/ DET)
Gerald Laird: 99 (Saltalamacchia’s at 86)
Ramon Hernandez: 92
Rod Barajas: 90
Jason Varitek: 77
John Buck: 73
Jose Molina: 59 (Posada had 106 through 51 games pre-DL)
Kenji Johjima: 56

In the NL, McCann (137), Doumit (135), Iannetta (125), Soto (123), Snyder (112) and Martin (106) are higher. Clearly, the higher quality of catchers resides in the NL.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Aug 25, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions

He has the potential for an above average bat...

really anywhere but at first…

I agree we need his bar but don’t put him at 2nd, it would make plenty more sense to teach him first if Barton doesn’t work out (remember, Barton started at catcher, again though, only makes sense if he really starts to hit somewhere around .300-20-100).

Scary thing about Suzuki is I know nothing about his work ethic but he is clearly a quick learner. He was originally pegged as an ok to below average fielding catcher but in all aspects of the game he has proved doubters wrong and played above expectations already

by stranahanahan on Aug 25, 2008 3:04 PM PDT reply actions

What are you talking about?

I thought the word coming out of college was that he was a great defensive catcher, albe worse than Powell.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Aug 25, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions

People don't realize just how crappy most catchers are at hitting

Suzuki is a very, very good hitting catcher. He’s a top 10 offensive catcher in baseball.

by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2008 3:40 PM PDT reply actions

And thats on a bad team

I’d have to assume that his numbers would go up if anyone around him could hit. But to back up thejd’s point. The top 10 OPS for catchers: (according to ESPN…my earlier lines were according to thebaseballcube.com which is admittedly out of date)
1. Brian McCann .897
2. Geovany Soto .869
3. Joe Mauer .864
4. Russell Martin .791
5. A.J. Pierzynski .775
6. Y. Molina .746
7. B. Molina .746
8. Zook .738
and he’s ahead of two old friends:
9. Ramon Hernandez .734
10. Jason Kendall .651

He’s also 9th in slugging, 6th in obp and avg, tied for 4th in hits, and 8th in runs. This is as of ESPN’s stat page on 8/25 at 5:39 PST.

by thashyt on Aug 25, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions

He's 7th in BPs RARP (runs above replacement player)

But I believe that’s a counting stat, so it’s slightly skewed by Suzuki getting a ton of ABs.

The reason OPS is a bad stat is the same reason why Suzuki is being undervalued here: He doesn’t have a lot of power (yet) and OPS really overrates slugging. Suzuki is having a better offensive year than a couple of the guys who rank ahead of him because he gets on base a lot more.

by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Suzuki seems to be a competent catcher

but I see nothing close to irreplaceable about his bat in the lineup. I wouldn’t expect him, going forward, to substantially outhit any of the people he’d be putatively replacing, even Hannahan (who isn’t a “real” starter anyway). Factor in that he’s likely to be a mediocre fielder at most field positions and this idea is a non-starter. Let him concentrate on catching and hitting, which is more than enough for most people.

Donaldson really is not a factor at this point. Is he a prospect in the system? Yes. Is he someone you should be making plans around? No. If he makes it through AA next season, then maybe we can talk about him as a legitimate option.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 25, 2008 3:49 PM PDT reply actions

PT, back from the Dead!

Welcome back buddy.

by 33SwisherSweet on Aug 25, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree that Donaldson is not far enough along

to influence something as huge as changing positions for Suzuki – also, Suzuki’s work as a catcher calling games and nurturing pitchers is considered outstanding, and would be lost if he moved to 2B (don’t kid yourself about the impact of those trips 2Bmen make to puff up the resin bag!).

If Suzuki had played some 2B in college, and if the A’s had Joe Mauer tearing up AAA, you might look at it. As is, the solution is simply to stop wearing Suzuki into the ground, start him 130 games and reap the benefits of what he adds to the team as the primary catcher.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 25, 2008 5:45 PM PDT reply actions

+1

The best idea is to use him as a DH here and there if you want his bat in the lineup. Ideally, the A’s offense will be good enough that you can live without it for 30-35 games a year.

by thejd44 on Aug 25, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions

"Puff up the resin bag"?

Unintentionally hilarious? It is rosin, yeah?

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Aug 25, 2008 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions

As much violins as there is in sports...?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 25, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Donaldson probably won't stick at catcher

Zook handles the pitchers too well to not have him in there

by NateHST on Aug 25, 2008 7:14 PM PDT reply actions

Why not shift Donaldson?

he could make the shift in the minors and has less professional experience as of now as a catcher than Zooks.

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Aug 25, 2008 7:38 PM PDT reply actions

You say playing catcher every day will wear Zook out...

…but what about playing multiple positions, one of them being catcher and another being completely new? Don’t you think that will tire him out even more, especially if you want him to play every day? I don’t see how playing an infield position is going to rest Suzuki’s legs and back.

by Rocktopus on Aug 25, 2008 9:02 PM PDT reply actions