DLD, 8/22/08: Thomas gone next year; A's could have had Bay?!
The A's need some bats this off season...
And it won't be Frank Thomas or Mike Sweeney
Oh, there's a big surprise. That's an incredible... I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die, from that surprise.
Alan Embree thinks he only pitches well in odd numbered years.
Now maybe we can get him to throw firecrackers at people and spray Susan Slusser with bleach, we might get a couple Cy Youngs from him too.
And Billy Beane feels our angst. And here I thought he was just a sadist enjoying our pain. Why do I feel when Beane talks about his long term goals, it's like Vladimir Putin talking about Russia's withdrawal from Georgia?
How would the season have looked today if we kept Harden and made that deal huh?
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Comments
Question is, even if we had gotten Bay, would we be that much better off?
We’d be scoring 3 runs per game instead of 2.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Aug 22, 2008 4:34 PM PDT 0 recs
Well, it's a start right?
He’s signed up through next year too isn’t he? I just don’t know if the A’s will get any better bats this off season then that. And with the glut of pitching we have, isn’t Mazzaro a small price to pay?
by petitceebee on
Aug 22, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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Its starting with Mazzaro, not just Mazzaro.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on
Aug 22, 2008 5:03 PM PDT
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Someone's gotta have Insider
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 5:09 PM PDT
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it just said mazzaro and others
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on
Aug 23, 2008 10:21 AM PDT
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Think Mazzaro times four
Charlie Brown GO A'S WIN
by Charlie Brown on
Aug 23, 2008 10:47 AM PDT
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Angels...
it doesn’t really matter who we get when we are in the same division as the Angels. If we need to rebuild, which we do, why delay this rebuilding process by keeping stars that won’t be part of the rebuild. All keeping Harden would have done was delay this rebuilding process and in turn make us worse of in the long run.
by mattman on
Aug 22, 2008 6:42 PM PDT
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Harden is young. He should've been part of the rebuilding process. He's got many innings left in that arm if he can remain healthy.
by jdub69 on
Aug 23, 2008 5:08 PM PDT
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and Cust has a lot more hits in his bat
if he can swing that damn think instead of staring at strike 3.
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King
by batgirl on
Aug 23, 2008 7:04 PM PDT
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I believe so.
I don’t believe that the Harden & Blanton trades significantly weakened the team, but I do believe they sucked the enthusiasm from the team, and a Bay acquisition would’ve nipped the negative feelings in the bud, and probably even encouraged them.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on
Aug 23, 2008 7:29 PM PDT
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Alright Insiders...
What was the rest of the package for Bay? Mazzaro was one piece, the Pirates ended up with 4 guys once they dealt Bay to Boston.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Aug 22, 2008 4:42 PM PDT 0 recs
I would assume it's the same type of minor league filler
the A’s got back from Chicago and Philly. One good piece and a couple or three Murtons
by petitceebee on
Aug 22, 2008 4:45 PM PDT
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Pirates got better then that
Hansen may border on “throw-in” but several teams consider Moss and LaRoche to be at least solid-average regulars in the Show. I think LaRoche will end up better then that. Bryan Morris and Mazzaro might be comps, but that still leaves two major chips to play.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 4:51 PM PDT
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I mean
BB gets all the accolades of every GM out there then why did Littleton get such a good deal for Bay while we got fleeced for Harden?
by petitceebee on
Aug 22, 2008 5:19 PM PDT
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You are in serious need of an attitude adjustment
1st off, the Pirates GM is Neal Huntington and has been since Sep. 2007.
More importantly, Harden had nowhere near the trade value that Jason Bay had. No matter how talented a player is if a team can’t count on him actually playing he loses value. Beane sold short on Harden, I’ve argued that from the beginning. Harden was having some health issues and Beane was worried that if he didn’t Sell right then he’d lose any chance of getting a solid return. As it turns out, Harden was healthy and if Beane had been willing to roll the dice he probably could have gotten a better package two weeks later.
The flip side to that is if Harden had hit the DL while on Oakland’s roster, or had even missed a start or two, Beane could forget about making a deal that landed him a big league ready SP like Gallagher. It was a tough call either way.
Now it’s my turn to ask the questions. Why are you cherry picking with the Harden trade vs. Bay? Why not suck it up and use the Blanton deal as your frame of referrence? That’s a trade that is showing instant gratification for the A’s organization. Outman, Spencer and Cardenas are all playing well, so well in fact that Outman and Cardenas have earned promotions.
But no, you’d rather choose to take the easy shot and wail about the Harden trade. I got news for you bub…
I’m back in teeth-kicking mode.
You want to keep playing, bring something better. I’d start with getting the names of the characters right.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 5:54 PM PDT
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I've missed you
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Aug 22, 2008 6:19 PM PDT
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I doubt that
You just missed the quality bloodshed that I tend to leave in my wake.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 6:51 PM PDT
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I always think of you as a chum
… p
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Aug 22, 2008 7:40 PM PDT
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< dumps mb into shark infested waters >
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on
Aug 22, 2008 7:46 PM PDT
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You're all tail & heart & poo
Someone should find an industrial sized blender and make the ultimate in all natural smoothie out of you.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 8:47 PM PDT
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Souper Monk-o-matic.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on
Aug 23, 2008 6:08 AM PDT
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that's the WHOLE monkey!
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King
by batgirl on
Aug 23, 2008 7:18 AM PDT
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The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on
Aug 23, 2008 2:37 PM PDT
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Brilliant!
I’m a little ashamed that I forgot about the Bass-o-matic
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 23, 2008 9:04 AM PDT
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Well
AN’s been a little stuffed with mindless naysayers of late and the two people, yourself and PaulThomas, who make it their business to utterly destroy said naysayers have been recently absent.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Aug 22, 2008 9:44 PM PDT
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you are correct
where is PT?
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on
Aug 22, 2008 9:48 PM PDT
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Shytting bricks -- first week of law school.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on
Aug 23, 2008 6:05 AM PDT
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AHH....
I’ve been asking the same thing. I never thought I would say it….but I miss him.
Course, now that you mention he’s getting royally schooled, I suddenly feel better!
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Aug 23, 2008 10:50 AM PDT
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Yup. This week is less split-finger fastball,
and more

“carbolic smoke ball.”
/involuntary shudder
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on
Aug 23, 2008 12:17 PM PDT
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SIGN CARBOLIC NOW!!!
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Aug 23, 2008 12:57 PM PDT
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If only we'd offered that last $50K to his brother Justin.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on
Aug 23, 2008 6:24 PM PDT
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I thought he was avoiding AN in an attempt to avoid Olympic spoilage...
Interweaving, diverse, not to say conflictive emphases and a broad spectrum of items to form a dynamic exchange of parallel and self-eclipsing spatial and temporal zones.
by Poppy on
Aug 23, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
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do women know about spoilage?
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Aug 23, 2008 10:15 PM PDT
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It spoils?

I don’t know how you guys walk around with them…
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on
Aug 23, 2008 10:23 PM PDT
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Sorry, guys...
Olympics >>> A’s.
Particularly when it’s the suckin’ A’s, as they’ve been of late.
And as DF observes, I’m also starting law school, so the rate of posting will probably decline a little (not a lot, I’m sure I will still find plenty of time to waste here).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Aug 25, 2008 10:59 AM PDT
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hey man
no one is arguing that the olympics are/were better than any a’s game of late.
best of luck with your studies, have fun.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on
Aug 25, 2008 6:44 PM PDT
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I'd rather be in law school than have to watch the A's
Heck, I’d rather be sued.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Aug 25, 2008 7:02 PM PDT
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I don't mind naysaying
Its the mindlessness that irks me.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 9:50 PM PDT
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grover isn’t mindless, but he is frequently a naysayer. maybe you’re confusing him with someone else?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on
Aug 22, 2008 10:50 PM PDT
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I Agree
At the time the Harden trade was good, or at least ok. I kept seeing ANers screaming that we had to trade Harden even for a few bats and balls. BB rolled the dice and looks like the Cubs won as of now, but you never know long term. I think it will even out over the long haul.
Now Blanton was a good deal maybe even a great deal for us. If you look at all the deals BB has made in the last offseason and up till now I would say he did great.
I also don’t think he should have gone for Bay. I think he is looking for a young bat that he can control for a few years. He has some pieces that he can put together to get one in the offseason.
I also think that many here are underestimating the value for Mazzaro. Mazzaro is pitching very well and is still young. I would think that he is about even with Simmons.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on
Aug 22, 2008 6:22 PM PDT
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Oops my bad about the Pirates GM
I guess I better be careful on this site from now on. It seems any mistakes on my part are going to lead to an eventual fist-fight
by petitceebee on
Aug 22, 2008 6:22 PM PDT
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POW
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Aug 22, 2008 6:23 PM PDT
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Not that I wouldn't welcome it
People often tell me I need an attitude adjustment but alas the anonymity of the internet allows me to lurk around cowardly and make bold statements and threats without any actual fear of repercussions
by petitceebee on
Aug 22, 2008 6:26 PM PDT
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there are repercussions
if people think you have no idea what you’re talking about and don’t value your half—-ed analysis, what’s the point of posting? it’s a tree falling in the woods situation.
also, huntington is the current pirates GM, dave littlefield was the pirates GM, i’m not sure who this littleton fellow is…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on
Aug 22, 2008 7:21 PM PDT
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Attitude, accuracy, whatever
Just because someone else made a deal the A’s were in the running for only means that deal was more enticing to the team making the trade or the A’s didn’t want to give up whatever the Pirates were asking for. It has absolutely nothing to do with which team has the better GM and if you want to suggest the Pirates GM is better than Beane, you’re going to get ripped every way possible, deservedly so. That trade was completely different from the Harden one.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on
Aug 22, 2008 7:45 PM PDT
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If we're picking cherries
I pick the Haren trade.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on
Aug 22, 2008 9:33 PM PDT
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Agreed on Harden...
…it was a tough call either way. And with his health history it certainly was not unreasonable to feel that he could break down at any moment.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on
Aug 23, 2008 7:33 PM PDT
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No way...
this isn’t joe blanton we would be getting or a injury prone question marked harden. I think we would have to dealve out a better set of prospects something more along the lines of the haren or swisher trade.
by mattman on
Aug 22, 2008 7:06 PM PDT
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Here a bit from the Mazzaro part.
"The Athletics had a chance to make a big splash before the trade deadline, a chance to trade for Jason Bay. They would have had to surrender a package that included pitcher Vin Mazzaro, the 21-year-old right-hander who went 12-3 with a 1.90 ERA in Double-A this year, but the acquisition of Bay would have temporarily fulfilled Oakland’s desperate need for a masher in the middle of their lineup. "
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on
Aug 22, 2008 5:58 PM PDT
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He does not mention any other prospects we woulda had to give up. So who knows how much truth there was around it anyways.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on
Aug 22, 2008 5:59 PM PDT
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Thank you
Beane would/should have parted with Mazzaro to acquire Bay. I wonder what the rest of the package entailed because those are the players Billy refused to part with.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 6:50 PM PDT
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If it was that easy...
then i’m sure it would have been a done deal.
by mattman on
Aug 22, 2008 7:15 PM PDT
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I openly pined for Bay
And would certainly have traded Mazzaro for him (and several other players if Mazzaro is the best of the bunch). However, that move only makes sense if the A’s then commit to extending his contract and thereby ensuring that they have a great hitter once the rebuild goes into full swing.
Maybe Beane just looked at the FAs available and decided there’s a better deal.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on
Aug 22, 2008 9:32 PM PDT
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I'm glad they didn't because Bay is not a great hitter.
Sure, he’s better than most of the A’s hitters right now, but he’s not a GREAT hitter. Manny and Pujols and A-Rod and Holiday are great hitters. Mazzaro absolutely dominated AA this year and he’s what? 22?
I don’t think it would have been worth it this year either way because the other team could pitch around Bay or anybody else alllll daaayyy longggg because Crosby and Frank seem to actually enjoy bouncing into DP’s. I’d give up a package like that for a hitter like Bay when he is protected or can be protected by somebody like Doolittle or Carter or Cargon (when he matures), but not now. He’d be worthless on the A’s right now
by NateHST on
Aug 22, 2008 10:27 PM PDT
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That's being extremely short-sighted
Let’s set aside who’s a good vs great hitter and focus on some concrete fact.
Manny only agreed to go the the Dodgers because the deal included the teams waiving the two team controlled options years. Manny is a FA next year, so if you want to get the soon to turn 37 year old hitter all it’ll cost is cold hard cash. Pujols and A-Rod are completely unavailable and the Rockies were demanding a higher price for Holliday then the Pirates set on Bay.
So realistically speaking, Bay was the BEST hitter on the trade market that it made sense for the A’s to pursue.
Having Bay on the team right now would not be a worthless thing because it would add a good hitter to a line-up in desperate need of a good hitter. Hell, the line-up is in desperate need of several good hitters but you’ve got to start somewhere and adding one bat would be a step in the right direction. Plus, you’d still have Bay around next year when (hopefully) some of the younger guys have got their hitting legs under them. You talk about wanting to wait for Cargon to be ready to protect Bay, well how about Bay protecting Cargon? Having an established, quality, professional hitter in the everyday line-up might HELP Cargon’s development.
Mazzaro pitched great in AA, he’s struggling a bit in AAA but that’s not too big a deal. What is a big deal is the A’s have pitching depth and are in desperate need of offense. Mazzaro’s play will not help the A’s offense… trading him might.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on
Aug 22, 2008 10:45 PM PDT
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I love Bay
And would love to have him on the A’s. But I’m not sure he would have been a great trade target for this year. Mostly b/c I’m not really convinced that 2009 is going to be a real contending year. Then after 2009 he’s gone so you’ve essentially traded several valuable prospects (I’m not seeing a package for Bay where Mazzaro is the best piece, especially considering what they ended up getting for him) for a year and a half of Bay in non-contending seasons and two draft picks.
It mostly comes down to where one thinks we are on the rebuilding scale, namely if you think 2009 is a contending year. If I was convinced that 2009 was a contender, sure, let ‘er rip. But I think we’re still going to have major offensive holes next year unless we see quantum leaps out of several guys and I don’t think the pitching will be quite there yet. I think we’ll be good in 2010 and ready to take some names in 2011 and beyond.
by jdr on
Aug 22, 2008 11:49 PM PDT
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Hence my point
That I wanted him but only if we committed to extending his contract. He’ll be one of the better hitters in baseball in 2010, 2011, etc so trading for him now would be nice if we keep him.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on
Aug 23, 2008 6:47 AM PDT
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Same here...
…I wanted Bay, also, and feel he could have been a central part of the hoped for next round of good teams, but only if he could be extended. Maybe that was attempted and failed, I don’t know.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on
Aug 23, 2008 7:35 PM PDT
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Awww, a Frankie update....
“I’m fishing every day with my friends,” Menechino said. “It’s hard work, especially when you’re fishing for trout.”
There's no crying in baseball!
by gigglingone on Aug 22, 2008 4:56 PM PDT 0 recs
Frankie say relax
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on
Aug 22, 2008 5:06 PM PDT
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Thanks Frankie!
We didn’t have a lot of fans in Oakland, but the fans that did come were great. The players there, we recognize that."
Polynesian Sauce may not be available in all locations.
by Englishmajor on
Aug 22, 2008 5:42 PM PDT
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Menechino for 1B coach and Rickey for 3B!!!!
Then Hatteberg for hitting coach and Sweeney for bench coach. They could all be horrible coaches but who cares, that’s an awesome group of guys.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Aug 22, 2008 6:21 PM PDT
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menechino for coach? didn’t beane run him out of town for being a bad influence (i don’t remember the details… partying, pot, or roids maybe)? if so why would they bring him back?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on
Aug 22, 2008 7:24 PM PDT
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The article
Has Menechino refering to Beane as a good friend and that he credits him with giving him a chance and seeing the potential in him. I don’t think they’re on bad terms at all.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Aug 22, 2008 9:46 PM PDT
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i never said menechino had a problem with beane, beane says nothing about menechino in the article. did the mlb.com writer even contact beane?
so, menechino wants a coaching job and praises beane?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on
Aug 24, 2008 7:09 PM PDT
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Isn't that photo from Ekman, on deception?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on
Aug 24, 2008 8:05 PM PDT
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Far as I know
the only thing he did that Beane didn’t like is pose for that silly bathtub picture.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on
Aug 24, 2008 12:23 PM PDT
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