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Be Very Afraid

Goat_tiny by Nico on

First of all, not having seen the game (thanks, by the way, for sending a crew all the way to Minnesota to televise only one game), and not having a crystal ball, I can’t say how Sean Gallagher’s shoulder felt tonight as he surrendered 11 hits and 10 runs in 5 innings. Here’s what I know:

•    Gallagher was 10 days removed from missing a start with a sore shoulder.

•   He threw his fastball at 88-91 MPH instead of 93-94.

Should I give the A’s the benefit of the doubt, because after all they are the professional experts and I’m not? Here’s what I know:

•    In March 2005, when Dan Meyer was throwing 85 MPH instead of 93 MPH, the A’s let him keep going out there until he effectively destroyed a very promising career.

•    In March-May 2005, when Esteban Loaiza was throwing 82 MPH instead of 93 MPH, the A’s let him keep going out there getting lit up again and again.

•    Today, Huston Street finally acknowledged that his recent drop in performance and velocity results from trying to pitch through pain (groin). I'm sure we were all stunned by this news.

So what do we know? We know that drops in velocity should be taken seriously – only more so when the pitcher is a known injury concern and only more so when you are talking about a pitcher whom the A’s are counting on to be a big part of the future.

Should I give the A’s brass the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not negligently risking the career of a promising young pitcher? That was rhetorical. I understand the bullpen is chewed up, but that would not excuse letting a pitcher throw if he is not right – you piece a few innings together with every available pitcher throwing an inning or two and then call up yet another arm, any arm. It’s Gallagher’s arm that matters and if it turns out he was pitching hurt I will flip out like you’ve never seen. Because what makes the rebuilding tolerable is the talent the A’s got in return, and as a fan I expect my team to know how to treat an investment.

And right now, the A’s are closer to “rebuild bankruptcy” with every passing day.

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Given their history with injuries

I don’t think it makes any sense to give the A’s the benefit of the doubt. Then again Gallagher actually got hit pretty hard when his velocity was better too….

by cvdoug on Aug 19, 2008 8:27 PM PDT   0 recs

I was unfortunate enough

to get the game on Directv. That was some bad baseball. We are just
not good, at all.

by HRH on Aug 19, 2008 8:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Harden tonight: 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 10 K, 94 pitches

He left with a 1-0 lead; Cubs won 5-0. Hooray for former A’s!

Unless you prefer to root against former A’s. In that case, well, there’s Aaron Harang …

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Aug 19, 2008 8:37 PM PDT   0 recs

My girlfriend Melissa

(Cubbies fan) is thanking us right now. I hate her!

by lynnzgal on Aug 19, 2008 8:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My friend Craig (Cubs fan) Thanks us

For GIVING them Rich Harden. He also wonders how Matt Murton is working out for us.

by HRH on Aug 19, 2008 9:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

At 10-2...

…I changed the channel. I’d had enough.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 8:41 PM PDT   0 recs

I took a break

I love my team, but dayum!

by lynnzgal on Aug 19, 2008 8:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I had it on DVR

started watching but then realized Olympics table tennis was on and switched.

by HRH on Aug 19, 2008 9:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You know, I don't even care about getting blown out of the water.

What pisses me off is that this team just fucking REPEATEDLY allows pitchers to be run out onto the mound when they’re injured.

Street. Duchscherer. Eveland (his goddamn elbow POPPED and he stayed in a game? Seriously?). Brown. Casilla. Foulke. Harden. Likely Gallagher.

That’s just this season. However, it’s happening year in and year out. What the hell is the problem?

by mikev on Aug 19, 2008 8:44 PM PDT   0 recs

That is it in a nutshell

Mike.

Right on!!

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 8:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What gets me is that even if part of the problem is that

players aren’t being forthright, you have this thing known as a radar gun to give you clues. Meyer and Loaiza were topping out at 8-10 MPH below their norm. Hello?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

More like tired act.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com

by Ozzz on Aug 19, 2008 9:11 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

They should shut them down even on a tired arm

these guys are so young, even if it’s just tired arm, what’s point of making them pitching through it? in any reasonably optimistic case, they get shelled for a few games and lose their confidence, in the worst case, they injure their arm, push back their development, and even derail their caree.

by asfansince1989 on Aug 19, 2008 9:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yup - that's the thing:

I could get excited about the 2009 team if I were watching Saarloos and DiNardo and Embree because the A’s were protecting the arms of Gallagher and Duchscherer and Street. But to watch my team prove to be incompetent at managing the health of its most promising arms is just infuriating – because the reverberations are felt for YEARS.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I totally agree

Probably my least favorite argument on AN (about any pitcher) is , “he needs to learn how to throw 200 innings a year. Let him take his lumps now.” … regardless of whether he’s throwing 5 mphs slower, he’s exceeded a previous innings high, or he’s getting rocked and losing confidence by the start.

There’s so much more to be lost than there is to be gained.

"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons

by notsellingjeans on Aug 19, 2008 9:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with this thinking

Such a psychological game, and then add in the hitters’ woes…that just compounds it. Young guy pitching, knowing, “If I give up ONE home run, we lose, because my "back” the hitters, are averaging two runs a game."

There may be a place for pitchers to “wear it” to gain experience, but the 2008 A’s with the woeful batting, is not it.

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 20, 2008 8:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

seriously

for a team that can’t afford to keep any of its players when they get really good, you’d think they’d be on top of their game in terms of making sure the young and cheap players they have stay healthy. yet our team CONSISTENTLY puts guys out there when they’re not 100%, possibly damaging their careers. i’m pretty sure we rushed harden back every time, never letting him heal. meyer was one of the best prospects in the game. we had chavvy play through god knows what. huston’s been pitching injured for a while. i mean, its ridiculous. somebody needs to hold the team accountable for this. i get that players try to tough it out, but with all those guys, it was so obvious they weren’t ready to be back. yet we threw them out there. absolutely unacceptable.

by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 8:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Gallagher's Melon get squashed?

Well at this point, I’d be happy with one win or two a series…

All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout

by Hit4TheCycle on Aug 19, 2008 8:44 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes, Nico

this is a very troubling problem with this team. Injuries galore to pitchers.

It is amazing that the brass is not stepping in because they cannot be this stupid can they?

We, as fans get it right long before they acknowledge it.

Harden will probably never go on the DL again now he’s on another team.

They (A’s) let him go out there when there was doubt and look what happened.

Players hiding injuries need to suffer consequences of their stupid actions.

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 8:54 PM PDT   0 recs

We suffer too, unfortunately

It’s such a helpless feeling to shout “shut him down!” and not be able to stop someone from harming their future and the team’s future.

I know someone will point to the A’s injury track-record not being bad for pitchers but you know what? It’s catching up to their track record with position players – which is not good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It all starts with Beane

After all, look how much everyone holds up Chavvy as an example for what he did in 06 and part of 07.

Never mind would COULD HAVE BEEN if he had the surgeries several years before.

And recall that Beane commented on ‘not earning your paycjeck’ to a player in 07? I cant recall who that was, but it was not supposed to be a joke.

"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady

by geogrman on Aug 19, 2008 8:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bobby Kielty

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it was kielty

milton bradley talked about that

by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 8:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Old school

I tend to think that it is ‘expected’ at some level that players play thru pain UNTIL it is determined that their presence is preventing the team from winning.

"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady

by geogrman on Aug 19, 2008 9:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How sad, if the A's have gone from

“ahead of the curve” thinking to an “old school” mentality.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Buan just did a recorded interview with Mr. Cunningham

Very impressed with this man.

We will see him soon.

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 8:56 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes - I am VERY excited about him

Far more than about Sweeney, personally, and Sweeney has had a nice rookie season.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

we're lucky his injury was obvious

or else god knows what would have happened to him.

by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 9:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Injury Prone

That is my main concern now with Swooney

"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady

by geogrman on Aug 19, 2008 9:00 PM PDT   0 recs

Lots of pitchers don't have serious injury problems, though...

…Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Blanton, Haren, et al, have pitched for lengthy periods of time for the A’s without the same chronic problems. Is it the organization, or the individuals?

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:02 PM PDT   0 recs

The way I look at it, some guys will be healthy, some will have issues

It’s how you handle those who have issues that defines your competence, not how well you “do nothing” with Blanton.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's kind of what I'm leaning toward...

…it’s not so much that the organization somehow ‘causes’ the injuries, it may be more that they don’t fully understand how to deal with them when they do happen.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly - what causes the injuries

is that pitching is very hard on the body, as are all the demands/risks of being a position player. Guys will get hurt, but intelligent preventative and response methods can minimize the impact.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hudson? Mulder? Really?

Huddy’s oblique was always a problem (which some would attribute to his frame/build vs his velocity; yet still, knowing that, the A’s never got a handle on it), and Mulder had his (and IIRC, arm) troubles while with the A’s — and was another one who pitched through it, despite what we all could see were physical problems.

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Neither to the point that either missed significant time...

…while with the team.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's not true about Hudson

Mulder didn’t miss time because he pitched ridiculously badly when he should have been on the DL, and then for some reason the Cardinals wanted him in exchange for a young pitcher who was better than Mulder almost immediately.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

IIRC...

…Mulder’s problems weren’t evident until the very end of his A’s tenure, and he was pretty studly prior to that. And he still managed to pull another good season the next year before he really fell apart.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

his velocity was noticeably down the entire 2nd half of his last season w/ us

chavvy used to talk about it at the time. he was only hitting the mid 80s. pretty clear something was up. he was his usual dominant self the first half of the season or so.

by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hopefully, my memory isn't going bad, but...

…I seem to recall there being concerns sometime late July or early August, then mid-August he really started to fall apart. And the first half of the season he was “the man”.

I do remember thinking they should have started that Blanton kid in his place his last start of the season. Country Joe was still a rookie, but Mulder clearly had lost it, at least for that season.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mulder was great through the ASB (only 2 losses, IIRC)

then just got progressively worse in August and September.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

running Mulder out there was painful to watch

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"his" should be "hip" for Mulder

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the individuals (as has been pointed out here)

are afraid to say anything when they have a minor injury and keep on pitching for fear of going on the DL and or being replaced and not getting another chance. I can understand that to a degree but the minor injury turns into a major one when the pitcher over compensates etc etc.

Veteran players pitching thru injuries pisses me off. Huston Street for example. A one legged, blind corpse who has been rotting in the ground for four years has more intelligence than someone like Street does. By him pitching hurt, he has lost his closer job and deserves never to get it back because of him doing so

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 9:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I actually think Street is very intelligent

Just maybe not “street smart”? – pun intended

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

but he is BART smart!

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And no one knows the ins and outs of storage like he does

I mean he’s really studied the way AAAAA Rent A Space does business.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I know

I was trying to make light of it with my comment. He probably is very intelligent but had a brain freeze for about 6 weeks too long in deciding to admit to his injury. Nice if he had done this 1 game before the AS break.

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And look, Gallagher's shoulder may feel terrific

I’m just looking at the radar gun reading, the background (recent soreness), and the A’s track record with putting their head in the sand, to say I’m highly skeptical.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:06 PM PDT   0 recs

Gallagher said his arm was dead

and the ball felt like a feather.

Yep, we noticed although they were grenades you were tossing, not feathers

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 9:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What's the word from the clubhouse on Gallagher?

The usual rhetoric (“tough night, he’s young, these guys are learning”) or actual info?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL, I can't remember the last time...

…any show actually had real info.

Well, unless it was good news.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Aug 19, 2008 9:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I've been beating this drum for 5 years

Welcome to the dark side, Nico.

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Yeah.

When they ‘promoted’ Larry Davis, you kinda knew that the only thing that could kill us this year would be the same thing that had been killing us for the last four.

Wonder if he’s read up on acupuncture yet, or is he still rolling his eyes whenever anyone says the word.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com

by Ozzz on Aug 19, 2008 9:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think he's waiting another 10,000 years

to see if it’s for real.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I actually had thought Larry's "promotion" was a good move at the time

Peter-Principle him into a sinecure, where he simultaneously wouldn’t be tempted to rat out the organization with all that he knows about the Roid Years and wouldn’t really have anything to do with the players.

Turns out, not so much.

The main thing I’ve been bitching about for 5+ years is that Beane has zero excuse for not making the A’s into a world-class training/conditioning organization. It would have been (and still could be) incredibly cheap (in the larger scheme of things) and massively cost-effective. That he didn’t/doesn’t is a sign of … well, Ba’al only knows.

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I just don't see why the A's don't say,

“Rat us out – it’s been 20 years, everyone now knows it was rampant, nobody cares.” Better to have your organization managed by incompetent training and conditioning staff and have every attempt to compete or rebuild sabotaged?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

if I ran the A's, I'd do just that

Why they don’t … the possible reasons get too convoluted and conspiratorial for even my tastes.

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do they involve concealed weapons and hit men?

Because it would nice to think that “the A’s” and “hit man” could be associated in SOME way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They seem to be very worried about TB

LOL, who woulda thunk it.

I give TB the advantage at home in the playoffs even though they are young and inexperienced. If they can get Crawford back along with Longoria, that will give them a big boost when they playoffs arrive

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds like Longoria is a better bet than Crawford

but we’ll see…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Crawford could bat one handed

and hit better than 90 percent of our lineup.

Maybe he could bunt every AB or get HBP a few times. Him stealing bases alone would help TB out in playoffs.

Hope he’s comes back. I am rooting for that club.

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 19, 2008 9:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Speaking of which, remind me why

Eric Patterson has not tried to bunt for a hit yet in 25 ABs (while he’s struck out in about half of them)?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Minor league notes of note...

Denorfia is 2 for 2 with a HR – yet another multi-hit game (I think it’s 5 in a row; I got it wrong yesterday).

Cardenas is 2 for 3 for Midland, in a wild 12-10 game they’re trailing. Jason Windsor was knocked out with an 8-spot in the 5th, IIRC (charged with 7 of the runs).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:20 PM PDT   0 recs

I would love for Denorfia (Defornia, Defronia, Deronfia, Denofria, DiNardo) to be an impact bat for the A's

I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball

by JediLeroy on Aug 19, 2008 9:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think even if he rebounds to excel for the A's,

he’ll never be an “impact bat” – he’s more of a smart, pesky, slap hitter with good speed. Basically an Eckstein, only taller.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

definitely agree with that

but I really don’t think Denorfia has a spot with Oakland in the future. Unless his bat stays hot and he learns to play short or third.

by HRH on Aug 19, 2008 9:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sadly, Denorfia's ceiling is probably that of a 4th OFer

and Sweeney and Buck are ahead of him on that depth chart.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:42 PM PDT