Be Very Afraid
by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:21 PM PDT
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PrintFirst of all, not having seen the game (thanks, by the way, for sending a crew all the way to Minnesota to televise only one game), and not having a crystal ball, I can’t say how Sean Gallagher’s shoulder felt tonight as he surrendered 11 hits and 10 runs in 5 innings. Here’s what I know:
• Gallagher was 10 days removed from missing a start with a sore shoulder.
• He threw his fastball at 88-91 MPH instead of 93-94.
Should I give the A’s the benefit of the doubt, because after all they are the professional experts and I’m not? Here’s what I know:
• In March 2005, when Dan Meyer was throwing 85 MPH instead of 93 MPH, the A’s let him keep going out there until he effectively destroyed a very promising career.
• In March-May 2005, when Esteban Loaiza was throwing 82 MPH instead of 93 MPH, the A’s let him keep going out there getting lit up again and again.
• Today, Huston Street finally acknowledged that his recent drop in performance and velocity results from trying to pitch through pain (groin). I'm sure we were all stunned by this news.
So what do we know? We know that drops in velocity should be taken seriously – only more so when the pitcher is a known injury concern and only more so when you are talking about a pitcher whom the A’s are counting on to be a big part of the future.
Should I give the A’s brass the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not negligently risking the career of a promising young pitcher? That was rhetorical. I understand the bullpen is chewed up, but that would not excuse letting a pitcher throw if he is not right – you piece a few innings together with every available pitcher throwing an inning or two and then call up yet another arm, any arm. It’s Gallagher’s arm that matters and if it turns out he was pitching hurt I will flip out like you’ve never seen. Because what makes the rebuilding tolerable is the talent the A’s got in return, and as a fan I expect my team to know how to treat an investment.
And right now, the A’s are closer to “rebuild bankruptcy” with every passing day.
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Given their history with injuries
I don’t think it makes any sense to give the A’s the benefit of the doubt. Then again Gallagher actually got hit pretty hard when his velocity was better too….
I was unfortunate enough
to get the game on Directv. That was some bad baseball. We are just
not good, at all.
Harden tonight: 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 10 K, 94 pitches
He left with a 1-0 lead; Cubs won 5-0. Hooray for former A’s!
Unless you prefer to root against former A’s. In that case, well, there’s Aaron Harang …
Brainless Automaton #439
My friend Craig (Cubs fan) Thanks us
For GIVING them Rich Harden. He also wonders how Matt Murton is working out for us.
At 10-2...
…I changed the channel. I’d had enough.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
You know, I don't even care about getting blown out of the water.
What pisses me off is that this team just fucking REPEATEDLY allows pitchers to be run out onto the mound when they’re injured.
Street. Duchscherer. Eveland (his goddamn elbow POPPED and he stayed in a game? Seriously?). Brown. Casilla. Foulke. Harden. Likely Gallagher.
That’s just this season. However, it’s happening year in and year out. What the hell is the problem?
That is it in a nutshell
Mike.
Right on!!
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
What gets me is that even if part of the problem is that
players aren’t being forthright, you have this thing known as a radar gun to give you clues. Meyer and Loaiza were topping out at 8-10 MPH below their norm. Hello?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
More like tired act.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Aug 19, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They should shut them down even on a tired arm
these guys are so young, even if it’s just tired arm, what’s point of making them pitching through it? in any reasonably optimistic case, they get shelled for a few games and lose their confidence, in the worst case, they injure their arm, push back their development, and even derail their caree.
by asfansince1989 on Aug 19, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup - that's the thing:
I could get excited about the 2009 team if I were watching Saarloos and DiNardo and Embree because the A’s were protecting the arms of Gallagher and Duchscherer and Street. But to watch my team prove to be incompetent at managing the health of its most promising arms is just infuriating – because the reverberations are felt for YEARS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I totally agree
Probably my least favorite argument on AN (about any pitcher) is , “he needs to learn how to throw 200 innings a year. Let him take his lumps now.” … regardless of whether he’s throwing 5 mphs slower, he’s exceeded a previous innings high, or he’s getting rocked and losing confidence by the start.
There’s so much more to be lost than there is to be gained.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 19, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this thinking
Such a psychological game, and then add in the hitters’ woes…that just compounds it. Young guy pitching, knowing, “If I give up ONE home run, we lose, because my "back” the hitters, are averaging two runs a game."
There may be a place for pitchers to “wear it” to gain experience, but the 2008 A’s with the woeful batting, is not it.
"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen
by One won lost won on Aug 20, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
seriously
for a team that can’t afford to keep any of its players when they get really good, you’d think they’d be on top of their game in terms of making sure the young and cheap players they have stay healthy. yet our team CONSISTENTLY puts guys out there when they’re not 100%, possibly damaging their careers. i’m pretty sure we rushed harden back every time, never letting him heal. meyer was one of the best prospects in the game. we had chavvy play through god knows what. huston’s been pitching injured for a while. i mean, its ridiculous. somebody needs to hold the team accountable for this. i get that players try to tough it out, but with all those guys, it was so obvious they weren’t ready to be back. yet we threw them out there. absolutely unacceptable.
by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Gallagher's Melon get squashed?
Well at this point, I’d be happy with one win or two a series…
All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout
Yes, Nico
this is a very troubling problem with this team. Injuries galore to pitchers.
It is amazing that the brass is not stepping in because they cannot be this stupid can they?
We, as fans get it right long before they acknowledge it.
Harden will probably never go on the DL again now he’s on another team.
They (A’s) let him go out there when there was doubt and look what happened.
Players hiding injuries need to suffer consequences of their stupid actions.
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
We suffer too, unfortunately
It’s such a helpless feeling to shout “shut him down!” and not be able to stop someone from harming their future and the team’s future.
I know someone will point to the A’s injury track-record not being bad for pitchers but you know what? It’s catching up to their track record with position players – which is not good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It all starts with Beane
After all, look how much everyone holds up Chavvy as an example for what he did in 06 and part of 07.
Never mind would COULD HAVE BEEN if he had the surgeries several years before.
And recall that Beane commented on ‘not earning your paycjeck’ to a player in 07? I cant recall who that was, but it was not supposed to be a joke.
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
Bobby Kielty
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
it was kielty
milton bradley talked about that
by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Old school
I tend to think that it is ‘expected’ at some level that players play thru pain UNTIL it is determined that their presence is preventing the team from winning.
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
How sad, if the A's have gone from
“ahead of the curve” thinking to an “old school” mentality.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Buan just did a recorded interview with Mr. Cunningham
Very impressed with this man.
We will see him soon.
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
Yes - I am VERY excited about him
Far more than about Sweeney, personally, and Sweeney has had a nice rookie season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
we're lucky his injury was obvious
or else god knows what would have happened to him.
by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Injury Prone
That is my main concern now with Swooney
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
Lots of pitchers don't have serious injury problems, though...
…Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Blanton, Haren, et al, have pitched for lengthy periods of time for the A’s without the same chronic problems. Is it the organization, or the individuals?
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
The way I look at it, some guys will be healthy, some will have issues
It’s how you handle those who have issues that defines your competence, not how well you “do nothing” with Blanton.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's kind of what I'm leaning toward...
…it’s not so much that the organization somehow ‘causes’ the injuries, it may be more that they don’t fully understand how to deal with them when they do happen.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Exactly - what causes the injuries
is that pitching is very hard on the body, as are all the demands/risks of being a position player. Guys will get hurt, but intelligent preventative and response methods can minimize the impact.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hudson? Mulder? Really?
Huddy’s oblique was always a problem (which some would attribute to his frame/build vs his velocity; yet still, knowing that, the A’s never got a handle on it), and Mulder had his (and IIRC, arm) troubles while with the A’s — and was another one who pitched through it, despite what we all could see were physical problems.
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
Neither to the point that either missed significant time...
…while with the team.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
That's not true about Hudson
Mulder didn’t miss time because he pitched ridiculously badly when he should have been on the DL, and then for some reason the Cardinals wanted him in exchange for a young pitcher who was better than Mulder almost immediately.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
IIRC...
…Mulder’s problems weren’t evident until the very end of his A’s tenure, and he was pretty studly prior to that. And he still managed to pull another good season the next year before he really fell apart.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
his velocity was noticeably down the entire 2nd half of his last season w/ us
chavvy used to talk about it at the time. he was only hitting the mid 80s. pretty clear something was up. he was his usual dominant self the first half of the season or so.
by guy incognito on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully, my memory isn't going bad, but...
…I seem to recall there being concerns sometime late July or early August, then mid-August he really started to fall apart. And the first half of the season he was “the man”.
I do remember thinking they should have started that Blanton kid in his place his last start of the season. Country Joe was still a rookie, but Mulder clearly had lost it, at least for that season.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Mulder was great through the ASB (only 2 losses, IIRC)
then just got progressively worse in August and September.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He started the All-Star game that year
Brainless Automaton #439
by rubin sierra on Aug 20, 2008 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions
running Mulder out there was painful to watch
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
"his" should be "hip" for Mulder
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
I think the individuals (as has been pointed out here)
are afraid to say anything when they have a minor injury and keep on pitching for fear of going on the DL and or being replaced and not getting another chance. I can understand that to a degree but the minor injury turns into a major one when the pitcher over compensates etc etc.
Veteran players pitching thru injuries pisses me off. Huston Street for example. A one legged, blind corpse who has been rotting in the ground for four years has more intelligence than someone like Street does. By him pitching hurt, he has lost his closer job and deserves never to get it back because of him doing so
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
I actually think Street is very intelligent
Just maybe not “street smart”? – pun intended
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
but he is BART smart!
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
And no one knows the ins and outs of storage like he does
I mean he’s really studied the way AAAAA Rent A Space does business.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I know
I was trying to make light of it with my comment. He probably is very intelligent but had a brain freeze for about 6 weeks too long in deciding to admit to his injury. Nice if he had done this 1 game before the AS break.
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
And look, Gallagher's shoulder may feel terrific
I’m just looking at the radar gun reading, the background (recent soreness), and the A’s track record with putting their head in the sand, to say I’m highly skeptical.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Gallagher said his arm was dead
and the ball felt like a feather.
Yep, we noticed although they were grenades you were tossing, not feathers
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
What's the word from the clubhouse on Gallagher?
The usual rhetoric (“tough night, he’s young, these guys are learning”) or actual info?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
LOL, I can't remember the last time...
…any show actually had real info.
Well, unless it was good news.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
I've been beating this drum for 5 years
Welcome to the dark side, Nico.
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
Yeah.
When they ‘promoted’ Larry Davis, you kinda knew that the only thing that could kill us this year would be the same thing that had been killing us for the last four.
Wonder if he’s read up on acupuncture yet, or is he still rolling his eyes whenever anyone says the word.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
I think he's waiting another 10,000 years
to see if it’s for real.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I actually had thought Larry's "promotion" was a good move at the time
Peter-Principle him into a sinecure, where he simultaneously wouldn’t be tempted to rat out the organization with all that he knows about the Roid Years and wouldn’t really have anything to do with the players.
Turns out, not so much.
The main thing I’ve been bitching about for 5+ years is that Beane has zero excuse for not making the A’s into a world-class training/conditioning organization. It would have been (and still could be) incredibly cheap (in the larger scheme of things) and massively cost-effective. That he didn’t/doesn’t is a sign of … well, Ba’al only knows.
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
I just don't see why the A's don't say,
“Rat us out – it’s been 20 years, everyone now knows it was rampant, nobody cares.” Better to have your organization managed by incompetent training and conditioning staff and have every attempt to compete or rebuild sabotaged?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
if I ran the A's, I'd do just that
Why they don’t … the possible reasons get too convoluted and conspiratorial for even my tastes.
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
Do they involve concealed weapons and hit men?
Because it would nice to think that “the A’s” and “hit man” could be associated in SOME way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
These comments I am reading on Angels Board are good for a laugh
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=mlb&id=laa
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
They seem to be very worried about TB
LOL, who woulda thunk it.
I give TB the advantage at home in the playoffs even though they are young and inexperienced. If they can get Crawford back along with Longoria, that will give them a big boost when they playoffs arrive
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
Sounds like Longoria is a better bet than Crawford
but we’ll see…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Crawford could bat one handed
and hit better than 90 percent of our lineup.
Maybe he could bunt every AB or get HBP a few times. Him stealing bases alone would help TB out in playoffs.
Hope he’s comes back. I am rooting for that club.
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
Speaking of which, remind me why
Eric Patterson has not tried to bunt for a hit yet in 25 ABs (while he’s struck out in about half of them)?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Minor league notes of note...
Denorfia is 2 for 2 with a HR – yet another multi-hit game (I think it’s 5 in a row; I got it wrong yesterday).
Cardenas is 2 for 3 for Midland, in a wild 12-10 game they’re trailing. Jason Windsor was knocked out with an 8-spot in the 5th, IIRC (charged with 7 of the runs).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would love for Denorfia (Defornia, Defronia, Deronfia, Denofria, DiNardo) to be an impact bat for the A's
I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball
I think even if he rebounds to excel for the A's,
he’ll never be an “impact bat” – he’s more of a smart, pesky, slap hitter with good speed. Basically an Eckstein, only taller.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
definitely agree with that
but I really don’t think Denorfia has a spot with Oakland in the future. Unless his bat stays hot and he learns to play short or third.
Sadly, Denorfia's ceiling is probably that of a 4th OFer
and Sweeney and Buck are ahead of him on that depth chart.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would love to break the trend finally
and open the wallet for a real impact bat. Pat Burrell at least. I know we beat this topic to death on AN but with Frank nearing the end, Sweeney (Mike) at the end we need a real threat fromt he right side.
No question - and the reality is, if the A's don't choose
to go out and spend some real money to bring in a “real hitter,” even the most loyal fans are finding it hard to stay highly invested in this team. We can hang in there the rest of the year and let “hope spring eternal” next March – but if 2009 looks like this…The A’s aren’t even trying to give fans a reason to come out to games.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They definitely will need to spend some money
They may trade prospects for an expensive bat, or take a gamble on a guy like Burrell.
I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball
All I have to say is
re-building sucks. i keep telling myself we have been spoiled with success and fielding a competitive team. We also has a GM who has made the right moves and outsmarted other GM’s throughout the league.
But now we are getting whacked by 10 runs every couple of games while watching King Richard dominate for the Cubbies, while we have a guy who can’t find the strike zone, a guy lost in Sacramento and a guy who doesn’t utilize his speed at the plate.
Hard not to lose hope but we are A’s fans and gotta stick with it.
And the reality is, personally I'll stick with it
because I’m addicted to A’s baseball. Sometimes to the detriment of my mental health but that’s who I am. But while “In Beane I may trust,” the same does NOT apply to the training/conditioning/medical staff. And that can undo a lot of the best laid plans of a good GM.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I have absolutely nothing to back this up with except "gut feeling"
but I betcha … man, I just feel it in my bones … Rich Harden’s injury woes are behind him, and he’s going to be dominant for many years to come with the Cubbies. If I’m wrong, everyone’ll forget I said it … but I think I’m going to be bitchin’ about him on the North Side for years. He’s dominating … not just pitching well … he’s dominating every time he takes the mound for Chicago … this is looking really, really bad for us right now.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Jason Windsor...
…totally forgot about him.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
What are those guys still doing here?
A lot of A’s pitchers will have to get hurt before these guys get a chance again, …, so, maybe in a couple of weeks we’ll see them up with the big league team?
by asfansince1989 on Aug 19, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Roster filler
You know who’s pitching at Midland? Chris Mihalak, who was on the A’s single A team in Medford in 1993, and had cups of coffee with Oakland and Toronto – one of the single nicest guys I traveled with in four minor league years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hope I'll never have to see these guys in Oaklan
unless if they all of a sudden gets 5 mph on their pitch, or another 6" drop on their off speed pitch.
by asfansince1989 on Aug 19, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Looooong bus rides to Spokane, Boise, Bellingham, etc.
Broadcasters travel on the team bus – usually midnight to 8:00am rides. Lovely.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Him too
Did he ever pitch to Suzuki to form an all-Hawaii MLB battery? Komine is from Hawaii, right?
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Yes - in fact Suzuki HRed behind Komine's win on an AN Day, IIRC.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
At least we got Inoa to sign before all of our pitchers fell apart
If he had seen how bad our organization treats pitchers’ health, he may have gone to Texas.
What do you guys think of signing Furcal
I know he has some injuries but the guy is a true leadoff hitter, and when healthy still has speed and plays good D. Obviously Bobby does not have much value so maybe we keep Bobby and play him behind Furcal & Ellis (if re-signed).
I'm all for it - I wonder if the A's have given any thought
to signing Furcal and moving Crosby to 2B. I’m not advocating it, I’m just wondering how the A’s plan to handle it if Ellis leaves, because Patterson hasn’t shown he can hit enough (and his defense is already suspect), no other 2Bman is ready, and too many holes need filling to sign or trade for a 2Bman.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Side note, never realized you lived/worked in Medford
My wife is from Grants Pass, her Mom lives out in Eagle Point. We live up North in Tualatin (outside of Portland) now. My wife’s father in law has a bunch of old Medford A’s scorecards, foul balls he caught.
Mrs Monkeyball's parents live in Tigard!
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
Patterson hasn't gotten a meaningful MLB chance this year
and he has crushed the ball in AAA.
If Ellis stays, he’s def. better, but if he goes it’s Patterson’s position to lose
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
The Harden Trade completely sucked. Billy got schooled - or he saved a lot of $$
Take your pick. It ain’t both.
I love Knee jerks.
Or maybe its just the jerks.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Ian Stewart for Duke would look good at the moment
Stewart has driven in 5 tonight against the Dodgers with a 2 run single and a 3 run homer
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
Stewart is a stud.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
The f''n A trade?
Harden: 7IP, 10K, 0ER tonight. Versus “When you can a guy like Sean Gallagher you get him”
Sheesh….
So how much are you gonna give Rich
after 09? You gonna sign him to a big deal? I bet you didnt think this after Gallagher’s first start.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
you are joking, right?
Harden is one of the best pitchers in MLB. Versus a 22-year old unproven pitcher plus Eric Patterson plus Matt Frickin Murton. Oh yeah, I loved that trade from the start
...when healthy.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Soo answer the question?
Are you gonna give him 5 years 85 Mil?
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
5/85? Not after this season.
But you can damn well bet that I’d MUCH rather pick up his 7 million dollar option for 2009.
Is 7M a risk? Sure, but you’re talking about a team with a payroll of, like, 50M after cutting out so much payroll. It’s not like the team can’t afford it.
So, it’s probably a pretty good bet that Harden will be a) better than Gallagher in 2008, b) better than Gallagher in 2009 (7M better? Absolutely), and c) worth FAR more than a package of Gallagher/Patterson/Murton this offseason or at the 2009.
Yeah thats 7 mil option would have to be picked up.
Im talking about after 2009. Theres prob a 10% chance of Harden being healthy all this year and all next year.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Okay, we'll call it a 10% chance he's healthy.
Do you think there’s a better than 10% chance that Gallagher, Patterson, or Murton become better than average MLB talents? I mean, I know it’s pointless now, but frankly I’m not in favor of trading one of the 10 best pitchers in baseball (ZOMG WHEN HEALTHY!) for a pair of guys who have bounced between AAA and the bigs and a pitcher with bad minor league numbers.
7 million dollars isn’t a large enough dollar amount to worry about next year if Harden is hurt. If he is, you call it a sunk cost and move on after 2009. If he’s healthy, you’ve got basically THE best trade chip in baseball.
Yes. I think
Gallagher will be fine and be close to what Haren was his first two years. Also you forget Donaldson who is still raking in Stockton.
Beane I think felt Harden was too big a risk a getting hurt next year and lowering his value even more.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
The Harden trade
It left me cold then. It leaves me even colder now.
Somebody was going to look stupid in that trade. It might not be the same somebody in the end.
I’m not sold on Gallagher, even after that first win. He’s young, but is still the sort of guy who struggles with control – even in that first game. That may be something he can fix, or it may not. I’m not making any assumptions the guy is going to become Dan Haren, an All-Star pitcher.
The rest of the trade is roster filler and a flyer on Donaldson.
gallagher
if i remember correctly, had a minor league career whip of 1.2 and had a 1.0 k/9 ratio.
let’s not write off his performance as anything other than confidence yet. if it continues through 2009 then we can say he stinks. but his history says that he’ll be at least average in the majors.
Mark Ellis made the comment that it would be nice to get a win tomorrow
and have a nice plane ride to Seattle.
I think the A’s should forfeit the game tomorrow and rent a bus and tie all the players behind the bus and make them run to Seattle.
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
Was that his quote? That it "would be nice"?
That doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
"How great would it be ..."
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
qotm, belongs-in-a-vent-thread division
Brainless Automaton #439
by rubin sierra on Aug 20, 2008 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
god, I miss the steroid era...
when injuries were only a concern for a day or two… and, then, miraculously, they were all better. Everyone is so happy the steroid era is past. But, the A’s are reaping the whirlwind.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
Steroids should be Mandatory!
Its all about the entertainment.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
zactly
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Aug 19, 2008 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Pressing injuries...
There have been numerous reports that Beane is harsh on people who are hurt, and forces them to play.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
It happens over and over
I wrote a whole diary on what I thought was the team’s mishandling of Eric Chavez, and got a fair amount of grief for it.
But I see it again and again. The A’s have a lot invested in Promising Young Player A. But then he’s injured, in a way that’s obvious even to non-medical experts (Chavez can’t throw to first and says so, pitchers lose velocity, good players are suddenly ineffective). And nothing is done. These guys are trotted out there repeatedly, only to aggravate injuries or lose games along the way because they don’t want to admit they’re hurt.
And I automatically believe that anything the A’s say about a player’s injury status is a lie.
Agree
I think as much as the medical staff is blamed the team culture is at least equally to blame.
I’m sure the way Milton Bradley’s injuries were handled and the eventual DFA because he resisted playing while hurt also sent a powerful message. Play hurt or suffer Billy’s ire.
jeez...
that’s so illogical. play short term, destroy your investment long term? what’s the point of being a GM that grinds his players into the ground? the a’s don’t create enough high quality players to consistently do that.
i understand the desire to win but that’d be absurd if its the a’s culture.
On the other hand...
Like Nico said, its frustrating to see a player not get pulled when it looks like he’s hurt, but its also pretty frustrating to see endless players go on the DL, especially the same ones over and over again. a lot of us had the viewpoint with harden at the end of last year that it was time for him to just pitch through the pain and stop going on the DL every few starts. now, his continual health problems may have been the medical staff’s fault in the first place but that’s a separate point. the same things were said about bradley. people would say “he’s not tough enough”, “play through the pain”, etc etc. if beane was harsh to players who were hurt, a lot of us were much worse, myself included. now granted i don’t think the GM’s emotional state should match what we project here on AN, and beane should never force players to play through injuries, but what i’m saying is I understand the feeling of just wanting a player to suck it up and play his hardest, much like what sweeney had done for months. its not a reasonable or efficient way to run a baseball team i know but ive gotten so sick of the DL these past few years that i feel like just dropping the players who seem to always land there.
I keep remembering Beane's comment back in May
when the A’s looked like possible contenders and he was questioned about playing and signing veterans: “we’re not running an instructional league”…
well, he’s doing that now…and has openly been doing so since trading Harden and Gaudin
This is for you DUDES, I saw this girl on the opening Ceremony I couldn't believe she is an Olympian, I'm a girl and I think she's hott...hehe
Her name is Leryn Franco from Paraguay, unfortunately her looks didn’t help her qualify her for the finals, yesterday she crushed millions of her admirer’s hearts by NOT qualifying, lol
Anyways, enough about her……I wish Gallagher well, I mean, he’s only 22, he was injured a couple of weeks ago. There is a lot of upside there, he got roughed up yesterday, but what do you expect on a rookie, this is only his 16th start. You have to expect that. Plus, isn’t this how the A’s were supposed to play all YEAR long!! It’s a rebuilding year, we have to keep our head up and just look forward for next year. The grass is greener on the other side. And I do think these guys are going to be very special, let’s just see what they will do for us in the future.
Let’s go A’s!! And let’s be positive, at least we are NOT Mariners fans, what do they have to look forward to. They have no future. Hehe, sorry Mariners fans, but ya’ll DON’T!!!
AHHHH! I left the stove on!!!
********OaKlAnDaThLeTiCs********
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Aug 20, 2008 7:34 AM PDT reply actions
She's not hot, she's...
…HAWT!!!
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Sounds like it's the players too
“the San Francisco Chronicle writes it’s likely he’ll miss at least 2-3 starts at the very least. The paper also says Duchscherer could be reluctant to shut it down for the season because he’s arbitration eligible this year.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=29290
As far as the Harden trade, it’s very clear that Beane was dumping salary in order to sign draft picks.
It's totally absurd to push your young developing talent
in this manner. Teams have been known to let a position player pitch an inning or two in situations like this. In fact, I think the A’s did it once in the past several years—maybe Kotsay? I hope the A’s are doing a little internal analysis regarding their consistent level of injuries. You can’t say it’s just bad luck forever—or I dunno, maybe you can.
A's now last in majors in batting average at .242.
They are just a point behind the Washington Nationals, so it’s close. But if you look at the last 30 days they are far the worst in both BA and slugging average. So they should pull away from the pack on the full season basis as we progress.
Six more wins...
…somehow grind out just six more wins, so they can avoid 100 losses. I never thought I’d say that this year, not even before the season started, but as it is right now, I’m seriously not convinced it can be pulled off.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
How dare you be so skeptical of
Smith, Braden, Saarloos, uh…DiNardo..and…um…Can you pitch Sunday?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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