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Around SBN: Spencer Hall's College Football Week 12 Alphabetical

Captain Kirk Beams Down to Save A's After Duke Leaves With an Injury

The A's led this game from wire to wire. Not only did they never trail, but from the first pitch, a home run off the bat of Mark Ellis, the A's had positive margins over the surging Minnesota Twins. But while that's all fine and dandy, seeing the A's best starter, Justin Duchscherer, leave in the third inning with right hip soreness was not exactly roses and butterflies.

Luckily for the green and gold, Captain Kirk Saarloos, called up from months of exile in Sacramento, was ready to keep the A's on top. He managed three and two-thirds scoreless innings, keeping the Twins scoreless into the seventh inning, before giving way to Embree, Street and Ziegler, to close it out.

As is typical with the A's, not even a game where they led wire to wire was without thrills and spills. Duchscherer provided the spills, while Ziegler and Street gave up a run apiece to close the A's margin to 3-2, and the tying run reached base in the 9th, making extra innings an all too real possibility.

While the Twins outhit the A's 10-7, the A's made their hits count. most prominently a 2-run single by Suzuki that plated Cust and Thomas in the fourth. The game may be best remembered for Duke's leaving the game, and it just might signal a return to the DL, as it's the hip on which he had surgery in 2007, but it still counts as a W.

Hopefully, we'll hear some good news around Duke, but on this team? It's probably best to shut him down and we'll likely be seeing a lot more of Kirk going forward.

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Nice little start to the series. I sure wish the post ASB started

this way : – 0

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 18, 2008 8:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Can I just say

. . . A win! Woohooo!

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Forgot, almost

A’s win!! REALLY! YAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO!!!

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It will be the first of many

We must be patient.

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct!! Optimism!

I’m calling it! 8-2 road trip! Who’s with me??!!

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You so crazy.

"I'm telling you, I can't wait to put on that white uniform," Gonzalez said. "That will be the prettiest uniform I'll ever see."

by pam5981 on Aug 18, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats fine, I am an optimist.

And no, it may not happen this year or next. But I’m not giving up on my team just because we’re not all that we can be right now. Its how I’m built, and its how our team has been built. My bad?

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

but it hasn’t affected my excessive drinking! *8^d

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small steps here.

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So Beane was prescient

about not signing Duke mid-season..indicating a full season was the way to get a munificent contract…

Now, we wait for the medical…

…AGAIN!!!!!

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 8:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A'S WIN!!!!!!!!!!

WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!
Sorry. I’ve been wanting to do that for weeks.

by #14fan on Aug 18, 2008 8:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not even a week

are we improving?

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or ist it just MN?

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea how bad Duke's injury is or isn't,

but can I at least remind AN that Gallagher missed a start and was “going to be out forever as they sky fell” – then returned five days later feeling fine (his poor pitching had nothing to do with his shoulder; it had more to do with his being 22).

It’s not that shocking that after throwing 150 innings a few months following hip surgery, the hip might finally balk (luckily not in the 14th inning in Seattle). It doesn’t mean Duchscherer’s career is over or that having him in the rotation in 2009 will not be a good thing.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't even know that Beane was offered anything

My bet is that if he was offered anything, it was garbage and I’d rather have nothing than garbage because if you have nothing, you don’t have to worry about how to get rid of the garbage,

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 18, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooh, that reminds me -

I need to take out the Rhodes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

And don’t forget to take out the cans too. They’re in the Redman.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 18, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks - I'll even forego the rest of the basketball game

After all, it’s just “Kendall time” anyway.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, did you say Charles Thomas or Juan Cruz?

I must have misheard because I thought you said Dan Meyer.

"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."

by SwampyD on Aug 19, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would doubt that all he was offered was garbage.

My guess is that Duke was pretty highly valued by Beane and he just wasn’t offered enough for him. But c’mon…I know people here love Duke and he’s been great for us…but he does have a very significant injury history…and he’s not young. Let another team take a chance on him next year.

by IM4Oakgal on Aug 19, 2008 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the Duke for Fields/Poreda deal was about to happen

Then Joe Crede went on the DL and the White Sox called up Fields (and he was terrible and they shipped him out pretty quickly, but after the deadline).

by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2008 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just the pruno talking

but the Kirk kallup seems suspiciously well-timed vis the Duke injury.

Arte didn't get much Home Run Derby. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Aug 18, 2008 8:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it was more the fact that Meyer had pitched so much recently

he was going to be unavailable for at least two games and that left the A’s literally without a long reliever – and with a rotation that includes a pair of 22 year olds, and four rookies, you can’t assume that you won’t need a long reliever.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well there was that.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i gotta admit, i don't really understand that conspiracy theory

are you suggesting they had duke fake an injury so they could DL him, or that duke was already injured but they had him pitch 2 2/3 innings anyways?

you think that’s more likely than calling up saarloos because dan meyer pitched 3 of the last 4 games?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 18, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was that they had Duke intentionally injure himself

so they could justify pitching Saarloos, which they wanted to do because “double-vowels are cool, and Saarloos has two of them.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Double vowels ARE cool

If Kirk also had an umlaut he’d be unhittable.

I just meant to intimate, sourcelessly, that maybe the A’s knew Duke was sore already…lying about injuries being this team’s de facto “simplest explanation.”

Arte didn't get much Home Run Derby. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Aug 18, 2008 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've used Los Kirk as inspiration for many a video game name.

It usually gets the job done

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 18, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes yes, vowels are the new OBP

Consonants are over valued. Sorry Duke.

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Aug 18, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking it's more likely that

Duke just experienced problems in his problem hip once more on a poor mound in Minnesota. Shocker someone getting hurt at the Metrodome.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 18, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It may have been a wise precaution

It could be that Duchscherer had some doubts about his readiness so Saarloos was called up for a possible emergency start/ long relief stint. Meyer just pitched Sunday so he wouldn’t be available tonight. If Duchscherer is okay and Saarloos isn’t needed right away, there’s no harm done. Meyer didn’t do anything to cement a spot on the Oakland roster. If Duchscherer is hurt, Saarloos can step in and Meyer can be recalled. Seems okay to me — if that’s what happened.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Aug 18, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It appears the soreness first surfaced the start before

And he tried to pitch through it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 19, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's some double good news from Sacramento:

- Dana Eveland: 6 IP, 2 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 6 K (76 pitches, 62 strikes).
- Aaron Cunningham: 2 for 2 with a BB and a HR (#3 since joining the Rivercats).

Also, Chris Denorfia is 2 for 4, which I believe marks his 6th consecutive multi-hit game; he is now batting .297. And Danny Putnam has a HR, his 15th.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was just typing similar info

but not in the detail you have.

Cunningham is doing great.

Dana needs to do that more than 1 start as his other starts down there have been crappy. I don’t really want to see him back up here until next year in ST.

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 18, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree he needs to do this for several starts - what's most

encouraging, though, is the 0 BBs and the high percentage of strikes. Thing is, he’s always had pretty low BB numbers in the minors. My suspicion is that he didn’t throw a lot of strikes in the minors, but hitters chased a lot more pitches. Whereas with Greg Smith, my suspicion is he threw a lot more strikes in the minors and doesn’t feel he can come after hitters as aggressively in the bigs.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is pretty accurate

Which is why I get so annoyed during game threads of Smith starts when people yell to challenge hitters with a BP fastball. He just needs to get a little better with the control and he can be a pretty solid, if not spectacular, pitcher.

by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2008 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I somewhat agree but...

…at some point, he has to throw strikes. If he can’t throw his other pitches for strikes, I’d rather see him throw that BP fastball early than on a 2-0 or 3-1 count when the hitter is sitting on it. He can’t afford to continue pitching from behind in the count and walking so many hitters. He’ll struggle to reach the fifth inning. Nor can he expect the umpires to give him the Jimmy Key/Tom Glavine strike zone.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Aug 19, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree - I prefer the mentality of

“If you’re gonna get me, get me on the first pitch.” For one thing, if the hitter gets out – even on a hard hit ball – your pitch count is way down. You’re also working ahead in the count as a rule, so hitters have more pressure to swing early in the count. And once you’ve established that you throw strikes early and often, you’ll get hitters expanding the strike zone earlier in the count because they’re looking to swing.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

First pitch strike and attacking/challenging hitters aren't exactly the same though

Of course the first pitch strike is important, especially for him. I want him to do that, too. What I don’t want is what seems to be the call from many people, and that’s to go after hitters like he has Randy Johnson stuff. Generally, he has to nibble at the edges of the strike zone. He just has to get better at that. Or he can start throwing 5 mph harder. That would help.

by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Eveland keeps it up

In which case we should def. call him up after the AAA playoffs.

Cunningham is looking more and more for-real.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 18, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cunningham...hmmm

I think there was a “Cunningham” branch in my family tree around 1840.
Maybe we’re related, and I can hit him up for some “comp” tickets!

Of course, go back to about 1280 A.D. in the family tree, and I probably can produce “relatives” for half of the MLB rosters as well as 40% of the AN members!

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would a walk off grand slam constitute reparations?

Of course, that’s going to be an awful lot of pressure on Aaron.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM

There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 19, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We already had

the mule.

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Aug 19, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping Cunningham keeps doing well

so we can see him a bit in less than two weeks.

Can you believe the September call-ups are almost here already? Sheesh.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 18, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time flies when your favorite team sucks at baseball

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 18, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

62/76 strikes = nice.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Aug 18, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I might have mistyped that - my recollection

is that it was 52/76. Anyway, the final line is below and is accurate – and is very good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A's win!

I’m sad about Duke, but hopefully Nico is right and it’s just a little sore. Go A’s!

by A'sfansince1970 on Aug 18, 2008 9:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"I hope it's just a little sore"

didn’t help me the last time I was tested for Herpes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

You’re exceptsorenal.

A lot of guys ignore the laugh, and that's about standards.~Dr. Horrible

by lynnzgal on Aug 18, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to ESPN wrap

Duke is flying home to have it examined.

Also B. J. Upton is in the doghouse with his teammates for another base running blunder and not hustling. Cliff Floyd said the players are going to handle it

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 18, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buy low on Upton!

Duke will be buried by Thursday.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that a new form of treatment

It will keep the hip from any movement, that’s for sure

I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production

by Trainman on Aug 18, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cliff Floyd.....uh oh!

Isn’t he the guy Mark Mulder said everyone was afraid of, back when Cliff Floyd was in HS??

Bigger, meaner, hit the baseball at about 120mph back through the box…

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 18, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Update on Eveland - final line tonight:

8 IP, 2 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 8 K (98 pitches, 66 strikes).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd compromise a lot on the MLB line for that 0 BB part

Anyone know whether it was getting swinging strikes outside the zone (less likely to translate to MLB) or actually pounding the zone (which just means he needs to be FITZ in the bigs)?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 18, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and Jared Lansford pitched his 17th scoreless inning

tonight for Midland: 17 IP, 8 hits, 0 ER, 6 BB, 16 K. Right handed batters are hitting .100 against him.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 18, 2008 9:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Kirk's fantasyland resume was a big hit

What are those people, sick?

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 18, 2008 11:01 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Guffaw

Arte didn't get much Home Run Derby. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Aug 18, 2008 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

we’re done here

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Aug 18, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Well played.

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Aug 18, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You come push it!

Polynesian Sauce may not be available in all locations.

by Englishmajor on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AN Box Score

I like how the AN box score on the front page lists the 10th inning. It’s as if AN’s program expected us to blow it in the ninth. A’s don’t blow save? Does not compute! Does not compute!

by Deep Puddle on Aug 18, 2008 11:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Strange lines for A's minor leaguers today

Travis Banwart in Stockton: 4 IP 6H 3ER 2 BB 8 (!) K

Shawn Haviland in Vancouver: 4 IP 4H 3ER 3BB 10 (!!) K

Also Tyson Ross pitched today and got hammered. Jesus Guzman again played at SS in the AZL and homered (in the same game, Dixon did the same; Leyja didn’t play for the second day in a row). If Guzman follows Baisley’s path, he’ll stay in Arizona for 6 games before going back to Sacramento. But with Petit, Baisley, and Donnie Murphy at AAA (and Patterson/Pennington in Oakland), the IF is crowded. Will Petit get called up soon? Or does Guzman stay in AZ until rosters expand?

Only other MILB stats of notes. Both Italiano and HRod threw 2 innings in relief in Stockton and each struck out 3 and allowed no hits. Italiano gave up a walk. The A’s have huge depth of relief prospects. Both Midland and Stockton have a trio of good relief prospects: Andrew Carignan, Andrew Bailey, and Lansford in AA, and Demel, Italiano, and HRod in A. Also, token callup and 27th round pick Justin Murray pitched a scoreless inning and was rewarded with a second win in AA.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Aug 18, 2008 11:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A's WIN!

after I thought they were going to F it up!

I just wish street pitched a full bottom o’ the eighth. If we can get Street right and keep Ziggy up, we would have a great one-two tandem for the future which we haven’t had since Duke set it up for Street to close way back when.

Still, a win is a win! Let’s take the series, please!

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Aug 18, 2008 11:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Way back when...

…2006

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Aug 18, 2008 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"'Twas a long time ago

longer now than it seems, in a place that perhaps you’ve seen in your dreams…"

Sorry, I had Nightmare Before Christmas on the brain, but the sentiment is the same. I feels like so many years have passed since we had a super one-two mortal kombat fatality combo.

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Aug 19, 2008 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they won Friday

I was at the game and went home happy under a big moon. Now this evening I am happy with the win in Minn, plus thank you, Nico for the Lansford pitching good news.

by LibrariAN on Aug 19, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

havent you noticed

the a’s have won the first game of like the last 3 series only to blow the series in the final two games

by robbo650 on Aug 19, 2008 7:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A trend will continue until something

actively causes it to stop.

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 19, 2008 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the nicest way anyone has ever told me

I need to exercise more.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isaac Newton said it much more nicely

“A body at rest tends to stay at rest”…Newton’s First Law.

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Aug 19, 2008 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Street was hurt

  I have been saying it for a while that he has been hurt now he admitted that he has been hurt since mid july. About the same time he been sucking? So instead of him doing what is best for the team he goes on out there. Not the first and only player to do this see gallagher a few weeks ago. Hopefully it isn’t Beane pushing these players to play hurt.

by Arcman on Aug 19, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And Duke, who felt something in his hip last start

but “tried to push through it”. It’s unbelievable that players/teams would be so irresponsible in regards to their own health and well-being.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did it for money

Beane said he wasn’t going to negotiate anything with Duke until the season was complete, or until Duke pitched a whole season. Now that he’s “injury prone”, Beane can pay less for Duke if he so chooses.

by A'sfansince1970 on Aug 19, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly - good move

Pay for what you’re getting.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And this is *EXACTLY* why

I wanted Beane to trade Duke at the deadline

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Aug 19, 2008 9:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yet when Harden doesn't yield what fans want in return,

they moan about that. Sounds like you were going to be unhappy either way – either when Duke went down (even if it’s for only 1-2 starts) or when he was dealt for less talent than you thought GMs “should be willing to offer in return” for him.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

accidently posted my reply to you below

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Aug 19, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't happy about the Harden return

but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have been happy about the Duke return. We already traded Haren, Blanton, and Harden, so I had no qualms at that point about letting Duke go, especially considering how his value was at an all time high and how it was pretty safe to assume that something like this would happen.

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Aug 19, 2008 10:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well if you weren't happy about the Harden return,

I can only imagine how you’d feel about the Duke return because Harden is younger and is better when healthy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right

Harden is younger and better, and that’s exactly why I was more upset at the return they got for him. However, just because I wasn’t happy about the Harden return does not mean I wouldn’t have been happy about a Duke return.

Duke is older, not as good, and just as injury prone. I would have been glad to see him gone at his peak value.

He didn’t and this pretty much sums up why.

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Aug 19, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gone for way too little, instead of way, way too little?

Because Duke, at his peak value, wasn’t worth nearly as much in trade as he is to the A’s. And that includes factoring in that he misses several starts due to various injuries.

If Duke, at peak value, commanded a return less than the Harden haul that disappointed you, you’d rather have a couple middling prospects than the services of a guy who has put up 2.50 ERAs both as a set-up man and as a starter, and costs next to nothing in salary?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Not worth as much in trade as he is to the A's"

Very true…unless the A’s feel that rebuilding means you don’t pay for even serviceable talent on the big league roster until you plan on contending. The answer to that philosophical approach—is it just wasting money to pay for the difference between 70 and 80 wins—will also apply to offseason offensive upgrades, if any.

Arte didn't get much Home Run Derby. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Aug 19, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a really good point

And I’m not sure what the answer is. There’s a lot of stuff you can’t really quantify here (like, for example, will a 70-win season cause permanent damage to the pscyhe of young players, whereas 80 wins will make them feel like they’re on the cusp of breaking out). Here’s my suggestion: Don’t sign stopgaps like Emil Brown; sign veterans who can act almost as a player-coach. Decent players who can bring something else to the table. This won’t result in more wins necessarily, but the assumption that that type of player is going to help the young guys.

by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Duke could have landed them one solid position prospect

(which I think he could have but most reports say Beane held out for more), then I would have absolutely been all for trading him than seeing him throw 140 innings a year.

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Aug 19, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason why Duke didn't go

I think it’s because he doesn’t have the electric stuff that Harden does. Other teams seem to like that, especially the Cubs with Wood. I think Beane also knew he could get Duke at a lower price, new he would eventually get hurt, and will probably go to arb with him or let him go via free agency, with so many other pitchers coming up or already in the system to take his place. Other teams weren’t offering enough for Duke, and enough for Harden.

by A'sfansince1970 on Aug 19, 2008 11:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Street's Injury

From the Oakland A’s website:
“Righty reliever Huston Street, who has been bothered by a strained hip flexor since tweaking it during a series against the Angels in mid-July, said he’s feeling close to 100 percent. Street lost his closer’s job to Brad Ziegler after a series of ugly outings after the injury.”

In other words, the FOUR games that Street blew, he blew because he was injured. What the hell is going on with the As? We’ve seen this several times in the past few weeks. Foulke was injured, he kept playing and hurt the team; Street was injured, he kept playing and hurt the team; Gallagher was injured, he kept playing and hurt the team; Brown was injured, he kept playing and hurt the team. Duke was injured, he didn’t hurt the team but kept playing. Last year, Gaudin was injured. He kept starting and helped the team go into a massive slump.

I can understand it if a player is injured and can still be productive, especially if the injury winds up healing over time, but that usually happens with position players. People don’t remember this, but years ago, a Yankees first baseman named Ron Blomberg had a groin injury, and for a month or so, was the best hitter in baseball. He healed, and went downhill. But that’s, like, the only exception to the rule that I’ve ever heard of.

While the injuries hurt the A’s, it seems that pitching through them is even a worse idea. Even if playing through it would eventually work, why did Street allow Geren - or why did Geren, if he knew about it - allow Street to remain the closer when the groin injury was preventing him from being effective?

This is old news, I know. And Nico called it, said that Street was throwing from a different slot, as if his groin was acting up. Gee, if a FAN can see what’s going on from the stands, why the hell can’t the TEAM?

by richwol1 on Aug 19, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You left out perhaps the most dramatic and important example of all:

Dan Meyer, who was somehow able to convince the "brain"trust that it was no big deal he was throwing 85 MPH instead of 93 MPH. That same year, the A’s also let Loaiza throw 10 MPH slower than usual and didn’t shut him down until he had gotten lit up for weeks.

(BTW, I don’t think I can take credit for the observation you reference – I think that was said by someone else and I, like many others, agreed it was likely but not certain one way or the other.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FEAR and Experience

I think young guys like Gallagher, Meyer, A.Brown, Buck, Sweeney, and others play hurt because of the FEAR of never seeing the Major Leagues again.

Guys like Foulke, Duke, Gaudin, Street, and M. Sweeney play “injured” because they’ve done it before, and for the FEAR of losing their current jobs – Whether it be as a Starting Pitcher or as a Veteran Baseball Player, these guys are pushing themselves so they can be financially secure or Professionally Secure.

Every baseball player plays w/ Injuries. Sometimes you never hear about them (Ellis shoulder hurt?), and sometimes the injuries become more severe. But since Beane isn’t giving out Contract Extensions, you see guys pushing themselves. I mean, how many times did this website give Harden crap about not Pitching through the pain? Luckily for him, Harden was secured w/ a Long-Term Deal so he could pull himself w/o hesititation. But most of the guys on this team, Day-In / Day-Out, are playing for their Careers.

by Colorado Fan on Aug 19, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is true - I just wonder where's the education

to tell players that it hurts their career more to play hurt than it does to be Wally Pipp for two weeks? Fear is real – it’s also usually borne out of ignorance. That’s what I’m afraid of anyway, though frankly I don’t know what I’m talking about.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 19, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understandable on the part of the players

But not understandable on the part of Geren and management. Everyone here suspected Street had probably reinjured his groin, and while maybe Nico didn’t see the arm slot business, others did or suspected as much.

So why the hell did Geren keep giving the ball to Street? His velocity was clearly down and a look at the tapes would tell Young that Street’s mechanics were off. So even if Street wasn’t talking, his body was.

Here’s the thing: when a player suddenly loses his edge, a pitcher in particular, it’s usually either due to adjustments on the part of the other team, or an unconscious switch in mechanics, or a combination of the latter plus injury. At this stage - the A’s are after all, a team with a century of history - you’d think someone would be aware of what’s going on.

by richwol1 on Aug 19, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I take that back..

It is not understandable on the part of the players, just like using illegal PEDs is not understandable…unless it’s in the context of a culture that thrives on lying and deceit. The implication that none of these young men are willing or able to tell the truth, and would rather lie and hurt their team mates and the people who pay money to watch them is extremely disheartening.

And frankly, I don’t quite believe it. Have all these people - Street, Duke, Brown, Gaudin, Loaiza, Foulke, Gallagher - so lost their moral compass that they’d be willing to do anything to make a buck, and not care who is hurt in the process? All because of greed - and yeah, I know, protecting one’s family isn’t completely greedy, but still, it’s greed. I don’t fully buy that, which means the onus must fall on management.

by richwol1 on Aug 19, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Athletes

Talk to any professional athlete, and 99% of them will do the same thing… Playing with injuries IS part of the game. However, there is a very fine line w/ this sort of stuff.

I agree, though. The coaching staff / Organization as a whole should know better. Remember Mark Mulder from 4 years ago? What in the hell was that?

by Colorado Fan on Aug 19, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

The athlete should (almost) never shut it down on their own. The coaching staff, however, should be able to see what is so obvious to us and protect their players.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 19, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

poor DFA

I was going to say something like “He probably suffered it at birth” and I felt so guilty I couldn’t.

"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."

by SwampyD on Aug 19, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And then did anyway

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 19, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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