Draft Deadline
by Zonis on Aug 14, 2008 12:42 AM PDT
135 comments
August 15th is the draft signing deadline, so we're about to see either a bunch of picks signed or a bunch of picks head back to college or to the Indy League. Aaron Crow, the Nats top pick, already signed with the Indy League. Potential Giants Catcher Buster Posey is eying the Indy League as well, which would insure another year of the Giants failing to produce a quality position player since Bill Mueller.
Justin Smoak remains unsigned, to A's fans delight. If he doesn't sign, it will be a blow to the Rangers, and allow the A's to try to draft him again next year. Oh pretty please? BA says that Smoak is asking for a MLB contract though.
But A's fans are most concerned with Brett Hunter, the RHP we drafted in the 7th round. A's have been scouting him a lot in preparation to decide to sign him for his $2 million asking price. Hunter dropped in the draft from a first round pick to a late round gamble after an arm injury hurt his stock. He appears to have recovered, but the velocity might not all be there. The Numbers are though.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2008/266692.html
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2008/266659.html
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Elgie and Warren too.
I’d like to see the A’s take a run at Elgie and Warren too. Unfortunately, news on both of them has been scarce.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Aug 14, 2008 12:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if we do drop the $2m on Hunter
I hope we are ensured.
by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2008 4:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ensured what?
Ensured that he goes on to have a HOF-caliber career, playing only in Oakland the whole time?
Ensured that he is 100% healthy?
Ensured that he won’t be rushed and become the next TVP/Prieto?
PLEASE TELL ME !!!!
by mikev on Aug 14, 2008 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know
that ensurance that if you get hurt and miss work, it won’t hurt to miss work
(but you will require 4 surgeries)
by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 14, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(in case you didnt catch my reference):
Potential Giants Catcher Buster Posey is eying the Indy League as well, which would insure another year of the Giants failing to produce a quality position player since Bill Mueller.
by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think [we] caught the reference...
Not sure if you caught the difference between ensure/insure.
Insured would work, since it would imply that there is insurance (taking necessary measures beforehand)
You would need to have something to ‘ensure’
“The Gov’t ensured the safety of the refugees”
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Aug 14, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was the point
poorly executed
by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elgie
Early on I had read that he was very willing to sign, but more recently it seemed like he’s committed to playing in college. Then, of course, I read that he hasn’t been added to the online roster of the Kansas baseball team yet (while another high-school recruit who got drafted was), so who really knows.
Being from North Dakota originally I’ve tried to check for news on him, but yeah, it’s been very scarce.
As to Smoak wanting to big league deal, I suppose that if you’re going to do it, giving it to a 4-year college hitter is probably the best type of player to do it for.
by rageon on Aug 14, 2008 6:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A 4 year college player ...
with a year of experience in the Indy League is even better …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi Rageon,
It might have been my story that you saw regarding Elgie not being added to the KU Fall 2008 Baseball roster as of earlier this week. The day after I published that story a new roster was put on the KU website with Elgie’s name included. I think he is coming to Lawrence.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 15, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
signings
Update Baggs Blog:
According to industry sources, No.5 overall pick Buster Posey is a done deal. It’s expected to be a major league contract in the neighborhood of $7.5 million. That shatters the biggest amateur bonus in franchise history — by nearly $5 million.
Also, third-rounder Roger Kieschnick got $525,000, which is $40,000 over slot value. And while it hasn’t been announced, their fourth-round pick, UCLA shortstop Brandon Crawford, has signed for $375,000 — $92,000 over slot. Bruins officials were told he’s not coming back next season.
Source: O’s, Matusz close to deal as deadline nears
First-round pick scheduled to take physical today
By Jeff Zrebiec | Sun reporter
August 14, 2008
Orioles first-round draft pick Brian Matusz is scheduled to be in Baltimore today to take a physical, one of the final steps to the pitcher and the team reaching an agreement on a contract.
According to a source familiar with the negotiations, the two sides are closing in on a deal that could be finalized within the next 24 hours. The Orioles have until midnight tomorrow to reach an agreement or they’ll forfeit the draft rights to the University of San Diego left-hander and get a similar compensatory pick in next year’s draft.
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 14, 2008 8:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good for the Giants
Posey is supposey be real good.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Aug 14, 2008 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he was pretty impressive in the College playoffs
I had a chance to watch some of those games
by OaklandSi on Aug 14, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will be so frustrated if we don't sign Elgie and Warren...
…unless they do horribly in college. Then, I will say I told you so, in Billy we trust, and Billy knew they sucked!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Aug 14, 2008 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
at these salary levels
It would be really dumb for them to not at least make a reasonable offer, and let the players decide if they want the money or really do want to go to school after all.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at BA
EVERYBODY is breaking slot this year. The A’s have zero excuse to not sign these guys as pertains to that.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They have gone over slot for quite a few already, if I'm not mistaken. If they don't sign the remaining
ones, I don’t feel it will be for a lack of effort.
by theblackpearl on Aug 14, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's one thing to go overslot
It’s another to pay far too much to sign the guy. I don’t know the specifics with each guy, but there should be a cutoff point.
by thejd44 on Aug 14, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course but
At these salary levels what’s the difference really? If a guy wants 1.4 and you think he’s worth 1.2 … so what? It essentially amounts to no money. It’s less than half the salary of one year of the 24th guy on your roster, the bench infielder/garbage innings pitcher Brooks Conrad/Kirk Saarloos. Naturally there’s a limit – if you think the guy’s worth 1.2 and he wants 5.5, then obviously we’re no-go. But I don’t think that’s the case in any of these signings – at real levels, I can’t imagine the numbers are really that far apart. Because all of the guys we’re talking about (Elgie, Hunter, Warren, Maronde, Clement to some degree) are top round talents, so they are worth roughly what they’re asking. None of them are asking for Beckham/Posey money, so in real terms the differences are likely very small. Then even if only one of these guys pan out you’re still ahead, because the value of that player is so much greater than the $5 million extra you spent at the draft for the rights to a handful of elite-talent guys.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$200k here and $200k there and eventually you're talking about real money ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you?
If we spend $200k extra on 10 guys, we’ve spent … $2 million. Emil Brown, come on down.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this logic adds up
We’ve spent Emil’s Salary on this board like 10 times…Inoa, etc.
by ohmangoAs on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
And there are limits. But I think the times you should be frugal aren’t when it comes to prospects, because the potential payoff is so much greater than the initial investment – it’s a simple cost-benefit equation. The time to be frugal is when you’re signing a mid-tier free agent who’s probably going to make a blah difference on your team for what amounts to your entire draft budget. Now if you spend $10 million extra on guys who turn out to be a bunch of bums then you’re a) unlucky and b) need a new scouting director. But if everyone’s highly regarded, what are you going to do? You have to at least try, otherwise you’re condemning yourself to mediocrity before you even start.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emil Brown's money was not poorly spent.
The idea was never that he was a good player. There was a small chance, perhaps, but that would have been a bonus. The point was to have a relatively competent place holder to delay calling up Carlos Gonzalez, saving many more millions of dollars on the back end of his service for the A’s.
But, yes, $2m is real money. That’s something like one and a half percent of the team’s entire budget.
Also, Emil Brown is only paid $1.45m this year — or $1.05m more than minimum wage. Assuming you actually plan on filling that roster spot, by eliminating him, you’ve only covered half of your bonuses …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you need a relatively competent place holder
why not Russell Branyan, to name one example who was signed to a minor league contract?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The place holder needed to be...
A right-handed hitter who could (sort of) play all three OF spots, and wouldn’t be a clubhouse distraction if he didn’t play every day.
Emil fit the bill.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't a sure bet to stay healthy entering this season
and his health concerns have proven valid.
Emil stays healthy.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 15, 2008 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because a crappy RH hitter
with a career OPS+ of 89 is so important. Yes, a RH hitter with a career OPS+ of 89, is more useful than a LH hitter with a career OPS+ of 109.
A crappy hitter is a crappy hitter, LH or RH.
And if Beane was oh so desperate for a crappy RH hitter, just bring back Bobby Kielty.
And most career journeyman like Russell Branyan, the type who are signed to MINOR LEAGUE contracts, aren’t clubhouse distractions if they don’t play everyday.
Emil Brown was an idiotic signing.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
Brown was a reasonable signing. He was coming in as a 4th/5th outfielder, was a very good defensive player by the metrics, hit well in 05 and 06, and the A’s wouldn’t have had an A’s an African-American going into the season without him, which is flat out unwise in a city with the demographics of Oakland. I was in Houston when the Astros didn’t have a black player, and you would not believe how hot the topic was on radio and tv. A’s didn’t need that kind of publicity, especially when they could sign a guy who would be average, at worst, for the role he was intended to play (and c’mon, it’s not like signing him put guys like Branyon and McPherson beyond the budget.)
The problem was Buck and Denorfia shitting the bed and Geren being forced to play him so much (and Beane not getting someone to replace him.)
by 31Boots on Aug 15, 2008 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your solution to the A's
not having any African American players is to sign a token crappy one?
Is that really a good solution?
No, the money to sign him didn’t prevent Beane from signing Branyan or McPherson. What about the roster spot? Or that the money might be preventing Beane from DFAing him?
Also, yeah he was a decent hitter in 2005 and 2006. He was also a 33 year old corner OF with a career OPS+ of 89, coming off a 68 OPS+ year.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Ideal solution? No. Reasonable solution for a backup outfielder? Yeah.
Ftr, I don’t believe a viable roster spot was taken by Brown (40 man has some junk to this day, and the team was going to carry 5 outfielders), nor is the cash what’s kept him from designating Brown. If Krivsky is to believed, the A’s spent $2 million on Denorfia, but the A’s didn’t have a problem forgetting him posthaste. I’m not sure, but I strongly suspect Brown is being kept around in hopes he’ll qualify as a type B.
YMMV, no doubt.
by 31Boots on Aug 15, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That has to be the reason
Except it means they’ll offer him arbitration, and Brown would be a fool to not accept.
by thejd44 on Aug 15, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why didn't Beane sign
Branyan or Mcpherson, if the roster spot and the money didn’t matter?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emil Brown is just the name I threw out to indicate that it's not a ton of money
The point isn’t him – the point is that we’re talking about a very small portion of expenditures. I get the placeholder thing to hold back on Carlos Gonzalez – but they could have brought up just about any AAAA guy and paid him the league minimum for the month or so they delayed Gonzalez’s ascension to the majors. For that month the difference in terms of outcomes on the field would be essentially nothing. Especially if this is and always has been a rebuilding year (I have my doubts). And man, as a baseball decision cost-benefit decision, $2m is nothing. You only need one guy to pan out and you’ve already more than made back that $2m. Now if the $2m was a fiscal/business decision, that’s one thing … and then maybe we have to start talking about revoking MLB’s anti-trust exemption. But from a baseball standpoint it’s a no-brainer.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a baseball standpoint it always makes sense to just bring in the most talent possible, period ...
because the baseball standpoint does not factor in the economics of it all.
What exactly would revoking the anti-trust exemption be an attempt to correct? People talk about this a whole lot — and I imagine it would probably affect something — but MLB already has the least restricted salary system and faces the most outside competition (although still extremely minimal) of any of the major professional leagues.
It wasn’t one month — it was two — and it should have been three. Part of the point of having Emil Brown and not a AAAAer is so they wouldn’t have the urge to call up Carlos Gonzalez before he was safe from being a Super-2. As it is, he’s going to be very close to the cut-off.
There’s also the fact that the A’s do not have any interest in turning the draft into a more free market system — if they have to pay market value for young talent, they will have no possible chance of competing.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: anti-trust
It’s b/c if MLB is being run purely as a business, then it should be treated as a business. They’re subsidized financially in basic two ways: by public tax dollars in terms of stadiums and the like, and by not having to compete with any other leagues (they have exclusive rights to markets – that’s why the Independent League teams are all in podunk towns nowhere near large markets). That’s what anti-trust is all about: it’s a public trust. A group provides a service for the good of the public and in return, they don’t have to compete with other people who want in on the market. Obviously MLB has become a big business and the waters are now very very muddied. The anti-trust thing is more about nostalgia/tradition and baseball as an institution at this point. And nobody’s saying that MLB shouldn’t be allowed to make a profit. But if they’re operating purely for profit rather than incurring minimal expenses to strengthen the franchise/public trust, then they’re violating the “point” of the anti-trust exemption.
Though you’re right, removing it would be a largely symbolic gesture at this point – there hasn’t been a real challenge to MLB since 1914 and there won’t be another one. The cat is out of the bag, the toothpaste is out of the tube, etc. But it still just sticks in my craw every time MLB violates the public trust — the contraction debacle, stadium extortions, etc. while operating under public subsidies like the anti-trust exemption. Should the A’s “have to” spend millions and millions of dollars to improve the team every year? No. But should they spend a few extra million in a year when they’ve traded good and popular players (I was in favor!), basically indicating that they don’t intend to compete this year, dropping their payroll to the very bottom of the league and, by the way, insuring that the team as a business is going to be wildly profitable for the next year or two, despite the fact that they’re going to be almost unwatchable, while asking for a new publicly-funded stadium? Then I say yes. That’s the public trust.
re: the draft, as I see it the A’s are better served in the short-term and the long-term by exploiting the current system. To wit: the current system is dumb. Clubs can violate slot any time they want to and the big clubs have been ever since it came into place. In the long-term, the A’s can’t compete in this system, particularly when more teams start violating and bonuses start going up. In the long run they should be hoping the system collapses and a firm i.e. real slotting system goes in – then every team is on the same footing regardless of finances. In my opinion, what they should be doing is taking advantage of the current system as long as possible and hastening it’s demise, and not coincidentally snatching up as much talent as they can along the way. B/c the current system is going to collapse – it’s a prisoner’s dilemma and despite what happens in Batman, those always collapse – I don’t want the A’s to be the guys at the end who played by the “rules” while everyone else was getting fat with what amounts to multiple first-round picks out of every draft.
Re: Gonzalez, if you’re in a rebuilding year and you don’t want to bring the guy up, then don’t bring him up. That’s why I think that whatever they were saying at the beginning of this year and the offseason, they did consider themselves contenders in 2008, and the “we’re rebuilding!” stuff was lip service.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Independent Teams
I don’t think that is true… for example, St. Paul MN has the St. Paul Saints, a very popular independent team.
by Diggity Dino on Aug 14, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Florence Freedom
in the Cincinnati area (5 miles from downtown, in KY)
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Aug 15, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they aren't actually asking or a publicly financed stadium ... but, whatever ...
in principle, I don’t disagree … it just doesn’t really matter. That’s not the way MLB operates — it’s probably never been the way that MLB operates and if it was, it hasn’t been for decades. The only way it will ever actually be operated in that manner is if municipalities start to pony up and actually by their teams instead of just bribing their teams. Not the MLB, but when they bring the NFL back to LA, it should be owned by the city (and/or county) of Los Angeles.
re: the draft — they need a more delicate approach than that. If they show that small teams can and will compete with the big teams in the draft, the players’ union won’t go with quality reforms. Why should they?
re: Gonzalez — that’s the very minimal symbolism the teams give to the idea of the public trust — they almost always act like they more or less care about winning. It’s also important for labor relations, so there is at least some chance that they aren’t purely just robbing Gonzalez of money he should be earning.
re Contention — I think the team probably thought, as I predicted, that it would be a roughly .500 team. Teams at that point can earn significant marginal dollars for each additional win.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
About the anti-trust stuff. As you say, and I agree, it really doesn’t matter – nothing’s going to change – that’s why I say the exemption is more about inertia than anything at this point. And I don’t see the A’s becoming the Kansas City Royals of the early part of the decade, where the owner traded every player who got good and made out like a bandit while the team was terrible – that truly was a violation of the public trust. The exemption is never going to be revoked – but it’s still worth remembering that it’s there.
Re: the stadium, there’s been one privately-financed park in recent MLB history (Pac Bell), and that still took significant corporate money. Everything built afterwards has used public financing. I’d like to believe that the A’s will build the second. We shall see. Fremont is a long way from breaking ground if it even happens at all. And that private financing was propped around the idea of being to parcel off the surrounding real estate at high value. Again we shall see.
A firm slotting system is only going to in place when the player’s union thinks money that would be/should be going to players that are already in the union is going into the draft (i.e. players not in the union and who may never be in the union) instead. Who knows when that will happen. But one thing for sure is that as long as the current system is in place, the clubs with money are going to violate it. It will never be a true free market because players can still only negotiate with the team that selects them. If the current system collapses but remains in place, the best the A’s can hope for is that bonuses themselves don’t rise too much so they can still afford to nab guys. If five years from now the current system is still in place but Brett Hunter is going for $5 million, then the A’s are screwed. My opinion is that whether or not the system is replaced, the A’s have to bite the bullet and make overslot signings because the system is a paper tiger and will collapse regardless and soon. You don’t want to be the guys who played along all the time while the other teams were stocking up. We won’t get any bonus points in 2011 for being good boys in 2008. Is it delicate? For the A’s, yes. But we have to try and sign talent, especially when it’s affordable.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re going over slot ...
If the A’s had drafted where the Giants did, Buster Posey would probably have been worth going over slot for. When factoring in everything else, is some random punk kid who really wants to do keg stands and bang college chicks with 3rd round talent but a first round wallet worth it? I don’t know … maybe, maybe not, but I can’t imagine that they are across the board …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why, did you study?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were so young ... so nieve ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
err ... naive ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they took advantage of me
with their deadlines and letter grades
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, the girls at your college gave out grades?!?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
{snerk}
bang college chicks with 3rd round talent
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 14, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't think we drafted anyone who was planning on going to Arizona State ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But seriously-
I don’t know. But in the A’s particular situation, Hunter is an injury question – if he’s healthy he’s a first round talent and they should sign him. Warren had the health issue – prior to that he was considered a first round talent from what I had read – but apparently he also always wanted to go bang college chicks, so we’ll see. If they can sign him I think they should. Elgie might not strictly be worth first round money and seems to want to go do keg stands at Kansas, but he fits an organizational need. He also didn’t play against top-level high school talent. Should they get him if they can? Sure. I wouldn’t break the bank for him, but if he wants a little bit more than what he’s “worth” they should still negotiate.
Maronde is supposed to be a 2nd-3rd round talent from what I’ve read. He definitely seems to want to go to college and to have something of an attitude. I’m not as high on him as I am on others. Clement supposedly is somewhere in the 4th-5th range and also definitely wants to go to college. I doubt he could be bought away for anything less than way over what he’s likely worth – I won’t be crushed when he doesn’t sign.
I guess the question one has to ask is how much would you pay for an extra 3rd round pick on top of the pick you already have? Would you pay the same? More? Less? For the A’s, who really build through the draft, maybe it’s worth spending a little bit more. Who knows.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think we've come to the point were we more or less agree ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to be clear
A public trust is a specific form of trust that confers benefits on a segment of society (rather than specific people) and thus gets some special treatment. All public trusts do not get anti-trust exemptions.
In other words the following is wrong:
That’s what anti-trust is all about: it’s a public trust. A group provides a service for the good of the public and in return, they don’t have to compete with other people who want in on the market.
Anti-trust is all about preventing companies from wrongfully acquiring monopolies. Baseball’s anti-trust exemption is all about early 20th century back-room dealing.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is that by having a draft
the other sports leagues are also technically in violation of anti-trust laws. Nobody ever really talks about that.
by thejd44 on Aug 15, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to sound so negative
but I mean, come on. Revenue sharing alone might cover their payroll this year. Throw us a bone!
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell Branyan was signed to a
minor league contract. His career OPS+ is 109. Emil Brown’s career OPS+ is 89.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Branyan played the OF? He has played 3b all year, so how
do you know he is capable of even Cust type defense in the outfield?
by theblackpearl on Aug 15, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Branyan is a poor man's Cust
I can’t even imagine how he would be ripped to shreds around here.
by thejd44 on Aug 15, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New SAT question
If Jack Cust is a poor mans Adam Dunn.
And Russell Branyan is a poor mans Jack Cust.
Then Russell Branyan is a _______ mans Adam Dunn?
A. deprived
B. improverished
C. broke
D. unfortunate
E. on the breadline
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 15, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Simmons says "homeless"
So there.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 15, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By process of elimination
It can’t be B. D. or E. because those choices begin with a vowel, and in the question, right before the blank, is “a” not “an”. Nothing in life is free, so Branyan can’t possibly belong to a broke man, eliminating C. Therefore, the answer is CLEARLY A., deprived.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Aug 15, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can Cust play 3b?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Branyan has played
a total of 150 games in LF, 71 games in RF.
Also, yeah, the A’s don’t need a 3b, or a 1b. Nope.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's far better to sign a corner OF
with a career OPS+ of 89 to $1.4M contract, instead of someone with a career OPS+ of 109 who can play 3b / corner OF / 1b to a minor league contract.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Aug 15, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with all of this
The problem isn’t that he was signed; it’s that he was a regular for the first half of the season.
The problem now is that he’s still on the roster and getting plenty of at bats.
by thejd44 on Aug 14, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But the only real overslot signing we’re aware of at this point is Coleman. We don’t know what Berroa got (Do we?). Dixon was a two-sport guy – there’s a lot of gray area there. You’re “allowed” to pay them a bribe to keep them away from another sport. And Coleman wasn’t really a huge one as these things go. Hunter, Warren and Elgie all apparently want first round money – that’s a whole different story. But BA seems to think that we’re going to see more than a few $1m+ later round signings over today/tomorrow. Seems like a lot of money but that’s still very very affordable for any team – I’m sick of seeing the big teams offering what really amounts to piddling sums and it being trumpeted as some sort of gigantic outlay that only the Yankees/Sox/Mets/Tigers can afford … really the A’s can easily afford it too. And they should.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the combo...
of revenue sharing, lowered payroll, and A’s usually making a profit every season…there is $$ to be spent. plus beane said he’ll do everything in his power to build and improve this team for the future…if they dont sign anyone else it would be a disappointment since this teams lives and depends off the draft
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 14, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus, if we sign our first 26 picks
some dude on the rivals board will bike naked around his neighborhood.
by noava22 on Aug 14, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
smoak/alonso playing hardball
good news…they’d go back in draft if not signed
bad news: reds/rangers will get their top 10 picks back, which might push the A’s own 09 pick lower
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost3a08e0c4ad-bbc7-4c85-9461-566b69a2c659&plckCommentSortOrder=TimeStampAscending&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 14, 2008 10:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm optimistic ...
that we’ll be drafting higher than the Rangers would be redrafting …
They had the 11th pick this year — which means they would get the 12th pick next year if they cannot sign Smoak. Currently the A’s are in position to draft 11th, but dropping fast — only a game and a half out of the 7th pick, protecting us from Alonso not signing and three games out of the top 5! Sadly, the 4th pick is the highest that we have any realistic change at … stupid fast start …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so ... we still have a chance at Strasburg!
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 14, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can just package up our Top 10 pick along with Mazzaro!!
by mikev on Aug 14, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeahhhh!!!!!!!!!!11
and emil brown
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Aug 14, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devo, math Q
What is the probability that the A’s out-suck one of the 3 bottom-feeders and enter the bottom 3 for themselves?
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
that’s a complicated question … if we assume that every team’s record at this point (except the A’s) is representative of where they will finish the season and lets say that A’s will have the true talent of a .380 team for the rest of the season …
Okay, so Seattle and San Diego are currently tied for the 2nd/3rd picks, on pace for a 62-100 season.
In order to match that, the A’s would have to finish 7-36, a winning percentage of .163. Do I really have to do the math on those odds?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying there's a chance?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Aug 14, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glancing at the playoff odds,
I’d put it at around 1.5%.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 14, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pass on Hunter
Sorry but a arm injury means less then a 50/50 chance to be in majors. Use the 2 million to sign a hitter.
by Arcman on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah! Screw Hunter!
Lets resign Emil Brown!
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Aug 14, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's available?!
every winning streak ends with taking your underpants off. @('.')@
by Leopold Bloom on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will be at the end of the year. ;)
by OldhamA on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if we extend him now!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 14, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might hold out for more
5/$100b.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Aug 15, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say
Sign them all while rebuilding and then shift budget back to the big league club once they start winning again.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Aug 14, 2008 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's my whole point
I’m not saying “never sign a free agent” or whatever, I’m just saying that in an obvious rebuilding year(s) you should be saving all the pennies you can at the ML level and investing in the future on the farm. I’d much rather have a few down years and then have a real chance to contend rather than struggle to stay around .500 for a few years with no real shot at contention. That means no Piazza, no Emil Brown, no-mid level signings. You either put maximum money into the farm and build for the future, or try and get a real difference-maker at the ML level and go for it now – in the A’s case it would be a hitter who really drives a lineup. That means cutting all the dead weight and going for a $15m guy – which the A’s will likely never do. So that leaves us option 1 – cut back and sign for the farm.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin Upton, age 26, 2014
Keep putting nickels in the piggy bank because it could cost anywhere from $100-300MM.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because having one superstar player who takes up such a huge percentage of team payroll has worked out so incredibly well for other teams in the past.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 14, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The age 26 ones have
A-Rod was fairly good as a Ranger, you might recall. It wasn’t his fault the team around him wasn’t good. And contrary to popular opinion, it wasn’t the fault of so many dollars being invested in him; it was a lack of cost-controlled talent that did them in.
The A’s will have plenty of cost-controlled talent in ’14. It would be the ideal time to invest in a ready-to-peak superstar to put them over the hump.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and all those dollars wasted on Chan Ho Park ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Aug 14, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree with you that it's risky, but
you have to pick the right player.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what team has EVER been successful with one player taking up such a huge percentage of team payroll?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 14, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How high a percentage?
The early-2000s Giants certainly did pretty well with Bonds taking up a decent chunk of payroll.
by rageon on Aug 14, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone explain to me why % of payroll is relevant?
Shouldn’t the question be based, from a very narrow perspective, on % of upcoming revenues, and the resultant impact on margins and profits? From a broader perspective, shouldn’t the decision be made on the impact on brand and the resultant impact on shareholder value? I thought the shareholders had hired Wolff to increase the value of their shares, not diversify payroll.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 14, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why shift it back to the big league club? You should continue to fund
the minor leagues in my book. Obviously we should increase the budget of the ML team some, but the focus should always be on a strong farm system.
by OldhamA on Aug 14, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Retaining some of the studs you develop through their primes
and filling holes which will inevitably arise.
Example: Rays signed Longoria and Shields; Brewers signed Braun. Braves signed McCann, etc.
I see the future. I see cake.
by Blicks on Aug 14, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not enough sample size to see if its valuable...
They’ve only been signed a yr. or less… we have to wait 3 to figure out if it is a ‘best-practice’. We’ve tried that strategy in the past (BoCro, Street, Harden, Haren) Seems to be that Haren was the only truly solid early retained player and we flipped him to ARI.
BoCro’s deal isn’t quite the failure most on this site allude too, but it also doesn’t make a great case to sign these guys up long-term with very little service time.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Aug 14, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong, we didn't sign street, but we did sign swisher.
and regardless of how those worked out, it’s almost always a good idea with the most valuable youngsters on the team.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 14, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how quickly we forget!
The big three, T-Long, Chavez … they were all signed to multi-year deals through their arbitration years (I think Hudson had an option on his first free agency year – am I wrong?).
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't the A's one of the first teams to do long-term deals for young players like that?
by thejd44 on Aug 15, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Hudson, Mulder, Zito, and Chavez… then Harden, Crosby, Haren, Swisher. But the money is a lot more these days. It might not be worth the risk to lock up a player until year 3 (for the A’s).
by Colorado Fan on Aug 16, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm expecting nothing more
maybe lucky to sign 1 player, thats it
uncle lew is just a more fan friendly version of schott/hoffman, i hate to say it
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 14, 2008 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When did Schott authorize a $75M+ payroll?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 14, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
Given the trouble the Rangers are having in signing him so far, I wonder what the real story was with his negotiations with the A’s back in 2005. What he was really asking, how much they really offered. There’s an awful lot of smoke (trying to avoid bad pun … succeeding with regret) about him returning to college. He’s definitely getting himself a label.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
third time's the charm?
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 14, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cole
Wow – the NYT is reporting that Gerrit Cole, the Yankees first-round pick (and who grew up a Yankees fan), has decided that he can’t be signed away from UCLA for any amount and is going to college. Can this possibly be true or is it just 11th hour posturing? He was supposed to have severe signability issues but wow – that’s taking a love of keg stands to a whole new level.
by jdr on Aug 14, 2008 9:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
its hunter or bust
no elgie/warren/maronde etc…my guess is they wont sign hunter either
25 of 50 picks signed
no picks signed past 33rd rd
“over slot” dixon/coleman
www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_10208916
“The deadline is 9 tonight for teams to sign 2008 draft picks before losing the rights to them. Seventh-round pick Brett Hunter, a right-hander from Pepperdine, is the only remaining draftee the A’s are hopeful of signing.”
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 15, 2008 2:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Elgie
I will be disappointed if they do in fact pass on signing Elgie. Anytime this team has a chance to take on a high-ceiling power hitter, I’d like to see them do it — given the complete lack of hitting prospects who ceilings much above average, save for Carter.
by rageon on Aug 15, 2008 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over on the Scout board
They’re saying that per BA Elgie was considered unsignable past the 2nd or 3rd round and that he wouldn’t go that high. I think people are really down on the level of competition he was facing in high school.
by jdr on Aug 15, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, we can't help it...
…we only get like 6 months of baseball whether all year up here!!
by rageon on Aug 15, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is starting to smell like 2007
Actually it already does smell like 2007.
by jdr on Aug 15, 2008 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
23rd round pick Rusin returns to school
UK Press Release …
LEXINGTON, Ky. — Kentucky first-team All-Southeastern Conference pitcher Chris Rusin has decided to return to UK for his senior season, he announced on Friday.
"We are extremely excited to have Chris Rusin returning to Kentucky in 2009," Kentucky head coach Gary Henderson said. "Chris is one of the premier pitchers in the nation and his leadership and experience will be counted on in 2009."
http://collegebaseball.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2308&tid=114871499&mid=114871499&sid=1169&style=2
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 15, 2008 4:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess it's a good thing Smoak didn't fall to us
Given that the big-money Rangers are having this much trouble with him, the A’s never would have signed him.
More likely, given the 2005 negotiations, he wouldn’t have given his consent to be redrafted and we would have had to pass on him anyway.
by jdr on Aug 15, 2008 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Signed!
according to BA Hunter signed for $1.1 M
by jakarta on Aug 15, 2008 8:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow! Awesome.
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 15, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn elgie/warren you got 5 mins..take 500,000
and call it a day!!
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 15, 2008 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
there's going to be a few that trickle in after the 9pm
As long as their paperwork is in with the league by then. But a few won’t get to the media until after that. But you gotta think the A’s are done.
by jdr on Aug 15, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Hunter press release made it sound like they are done
The deadline for signing players from the 2008 draft was 9:00 p.m. PDT tonight. The A’s signed or agreed to terms with 27 of their draft picks, including each of the top 11.
by theblackpearl on Aug 15, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well not bad
They made a few moves they’ve been reluctant to make in the past. You can never have too much pitching. They didn’t waste any of their high picks like last year. I am encouraged.
by jdr on Aug 16, 2008 1:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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