Cliff Pennington Called Up to the A's
by Syphon on Aug 12, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
108 comments
**update** Pennington is in the lineup, playing third and batting ninth. DiNardo was sent to Sacramento and Brooks Conrad was designated for assignmment to make room on the 40-man for Pennington. This will be Pennington's major-league debut.**
The A's haven't put out a release yet, but Cliff Pennington is working out on the field with hitting coach Ty Van Burkleo.
Left-hander Lenny DiNardo is heading back to Sacramento, that's the word in the press box.
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Huzzah!
He should play 30 feet off the line, and have Crosby stand behind 2B.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know...
when I read this, I could not be sure that you were recommending that Pennington cover short, or left field. I don’t know which would be the larger improvement.
by mikedaviswhereareyou on Aug 12, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they give him a real shot, not a Gregorio shot.
by theblackpearl on Aug 12, 2008 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or a brooks conrad shot
of course conrad didn’t really deserve much of a shot, and unlike petit was lousy in whatever shot he did get, but still.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 12, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol conrad got more of a shot than petit
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 12, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 games, 19 pa is more of a shot than 14 games, 25 pa?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 12, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe conrad started more games, i don’t know because i’ve been avoiding them…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 12, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Conrad looked like he had never before played the sport
And he couldn’t play defense.
It was a small sample size, sure, but 28 year old rookies tend to not get 2 months to show they don’t suck.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean a grand shot, not a petit one?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His fielding
was Petit mal.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Aug 12, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if they'll start him today.
by Coffee13eans on Aug 12, 2008 4:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
misread it at first
I thought he was batting third…not advocating that, mind you
by OaklandSi on Aug 12, 2008 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cliffy P!
Mark Ellis: sent down from Heaven to rob Evil of hits and hand out rainbows
by Jennifer on Aug 12, 2008 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn I almost thought we got Blez's brother
I want my Gears of War 2 advanced copy
by rightbackin on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see...
He opsed .692 in AA and .812 in AAA, so I’m thinking he’ll ops about .932 in the majors, which for him would be something like .335/.470/.460.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Aug 12, 2008 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait until we promote him to the "Before the alphabets"
where’s he sure to post a line of .420/.660/.600.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet in AAAA Pennington would be reallllly good
Oh, wait, that’s where all the A’s players are really good. :(
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We must be terrible
Because this excites me.
by mikedaviswhereareyou on Aug 12, 2008 4:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Change from terrible - only one way to go
You know what must be sad for Seattle fans – we’ve gone on a horrid stretch, and they are still in last.
by MobiusKlein on Aug 12, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well i hope he gets a actual chance and that Hannahan is got ride of soon
cause dude couldny hit the side of a barn if he were standing next to it
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 12, 2008 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Adios Hannahan
I hate unproductive outs and the A's are producing them at record production
by Trainman on Aug 12, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IDK though if that was the plan why not go a head and do it?
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 12, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind Hannahan as a utility guy
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, he can check my PG&E meter any time.
As long as he stays out of the damn batter’s box.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, let's face it - this team has
dived off a Pennington lately.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Some times you just have to tip your cap
I was trying to work a cliff diving joke into my comment but pulled the chute on it at the last second
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 12, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daric Barton and water could have been used.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And heres something that has nothing to do with this but...
The Red Sox are smoking the Rangers powered by not one but two Big Papi homers in the first inning its now 10 to 2 crap the rangers have started the comeback. The funny thing was Youklis was the first and third out in the inning
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 12, 2008 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Against my boy Feldman, too. :-(
I hope Ortiz keeps on pace and finishes the game with 48 RBI. I mean c’mon – that WOULD be kinda cool.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, now in the 5th inning it's...
12-10 Red Sox. The Rangers are never out of a game!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
over/under for Totak Runs Scored...
35?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Aug 12, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets compare...
2005 draft…there were a couple polished college infielders available late in that 1st rd
A’s opted for pennington, than local stanford guy jed lowrie who went in that supp rd to the red sox.
if a healthy pennington is legit more like the 08 version we might have a pretty good player
both lowrie/pennington switch hitters…very patient approaches at the plate. pennington might grade a bit higher defensively.lowrie hit .300 in his AAA stint, pennington the same.
neither will hit for much power for hr, but obviously the big difference lowrie has been a doubles hitting machine almost 50 in the minors last season. pennington only 16 over 440ab’s so far.
so pennington maybe a bit more defense/speed, lowrie more pop
also i read a q&a it was either w/ zaidi/lieppman/navarette/owens etc…they still like pennington called him their 08 breakout prospect so far
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 12, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I fear that Lowrie will be 5 times the player Pennington is
Lowrie looks like he has a chance to stick as an every day SS with a plus bat for the position, while Pennington looks to be a utility INF.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he already?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 5 times?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
08 breakout prospect
not mazzaro, doolittle…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 12, 2008 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doolittle is living up to his name at Midland -
.224/.276/.376 in 125 ABs. :-(
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Midland is a good name for an AA club
Not low minors, and not AAA.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He slowed way down at the end of last season, too
I think it’s as much conditioning-related as performance-related. As he builds pro experience he should be able to hold up better over a full season.
I’m not terribly worried, although it does suggest that he’s not going to be a factor until 2010 at the earliest.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. he will prob start next year in AA
and if all goes well AAA 1/2 way threw the year.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Aug 12, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No love for Cliff from Rotoworld
On the Pennington
“The A’s are looking for an alternative to the struggling Jack Hannahan, but Pennington doesn’t figure to be much of an upgrade. The first-round pick in 2005 has a .263/.366/.314 line in 377 minor league games”.
by A'sfaninNC on Aug 12, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would actually be more excited if they were throwing Patterson
to the wolves at 3B, because if somehow he could handle the position he could potentially hit well enough to play there – Pennington, and his Kendallesque power, cannot offer that potential.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
drafting pennington...
they were aware of his lack of power. though at the time i read he may reach 10-12hr at least
he is what he is…plus defense, gets on base, and has speed etc
if he can be a solid leadoff type that would fill a need
a comparison that is not far fetched was maybe a SS version of ellis, i’d take that
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 12, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's a lot faster, but has a lot less power, than Ellis
And one less horn.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying we should call him horse?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 12, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't seen him in the locker room
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sounds more like Kendall than Ellis
Ellis in the minors - .421 SLG
Pennington - .356 SLG
The only argument is that he’s been playing hurt for a couple of years, and only now has become healthy.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like "a SS version of Ellis's offense"
No way is he that kind of defender. He wasn’t even the top defensive shortstop at Midland when the season opened (he was mostly playing second with Sellers at short).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole approach
with backup infielders this year has been … puzzling: Murphy, Petit, Conrad, Patterson, and now Pennington have all been called up but for the most part only got a handful of at-bats each, plus Melillo was lost on waivers without getting a chance.
If the braintrust thinks any of these players is going to be a potential replacement for Ellis or Crosby (or even a regular utility player at the major league level a la Scutaro) I would think they would want to give that player a longer look. And if they don’t, I’m not sure what the point of making all these moves just to get someone on the roster for a week is.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Aug 12, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Patterson Experience was especially weird.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially Patterson, who projects as a plus hitter
and is a leadoff hitter on a team that doesn’t have one. I really wonder (especially given his “attitude issue” from last year) if he missed a team bus or showed up late to the ballpark a day or two before his demotion.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is projecting Patterson as a plus hitter at this point?
Maybe the A’s saw the same shitty AAAA swing that made the Cubs give up on him over and over again.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every scouting report I've seen says he should hit in the major leagues
Questions are about his fielding and his attitude, never his ability to hit in the big leagues.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Patterson kill your brother or something?
Seriously, I cannot figure out where this pathological hatred is coming from. It’s as though it’s a personal grudge. You’re completely unobjective on him as a player—and I say this as someone who isn’t particularly bullish on him myself.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patterson didn't kill MY brother, but he did bobble him a bit
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's three things
1) He’s looked like he’s not qualified to play baseball in the majors in the times I’ve seen him. And I’ve seen almost every one of his few at bats. And it’s not just that he didn’t get hits. He looked like a rookie ball player out there half the time. I just think that doesn’t bode well for a guy who is already 25.
2) It might not be fair to compare him to his brother, but aside from defense, they’re a lot alike. Except his brother was able to be mediocre in his early 20s, and Eric Patterson can’t even do that. I’m not sure if it’s valid to look at that, but pedigree should factor in to some extent.
3) I tend to argue hard against something like people acting as if a guy like Patterson (as in, somebody who seems like he’s probably terrible) is an answer. I guess it’s worth it to throw him out there now, but I think it’s silly to expect anything from him.
Oh, and I was just looking. BA didn’t have him in their Top 10 this year. Too many days of service time or were they just way down on him? Anybody know?
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Proving my point, as your replies are 1. subjective, prejudiced and based on a minute sample size, 2. preposterous (he’s not much at all like his brother as a hitter), and 3. irrelevant (because no one’s “acting as if he’s the answer”).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not more subjective than any other opinion based on performance
I didn’t dislike him before I saw him play. I didn’t have much of an opinion at all because I don’t care what the Cubs do. But I saw him look lost at the plate a good 50 times and thought “Wow, this guy is already 25 and not even close to looking like a major leaguer.”
He’s a lot like Corey in that he swings at some awful pitches, especially high fastballs, that he can’t possibly hit. He does have a better eye though.
Plenty of people are pencilling him into their lineups and calling for him as some sort of significant upgrade to the offense. That might not be the answer, but it’s treating him like an answer. I don’t think he’s either.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
I must have missed the point when “looking lost at the plate” became part of a player’s “performance.” Do you only get two strikes if the ump doesn’t like the looks of you? Does Patterson not score well with the French judge?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you converted to my obsession with the last 4 active roster spots?
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 12, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowen, Powell or Knoedler?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baden-Powell?
There were a lot of stupid, long confusing words that I’m sure normal people don’t use. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Aug 12, 2008 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So here's a thought
Since Pennington is, by all accounts, a ginormous defensive upgrade over Crosby, if he can hti a little bit this season, is there any chance the A’s move Crosby to thrid (if they can’t just dump him in the Pacific Ocean or something) next year? You don’t want to do that in mid-August, though it wouldn’t hurt since the team is out of it. Just makes sense to play your best infield possible. Of course, Petit was an upgrade over Crosby defensively (and, I think, offensively) and that didn’t happen either.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why even try Crosby at 3rd.
Just get rid of him.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Aug 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think beane still loves him
he’s going nowhere
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 12, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he makes far too much money to just cut him
I’d like him to go away, too (hence suggesting an acquatic demise), but barring that, it would make sense to shift him to third.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if the A's just wanted Crosby to go away,
they could absolutely dump his salary on another team. He is better, as is, than some SSs who are playing every day, and if he changes teams there is a real chance he could turn a corner he’ll never turn with Oakland. He’s not so expensive that several teams wouldn’t take him and his salary if they didn’t have to give up talent to get him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
Which means the A’s just don’t want to get rid of him. That’s depressing.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can think of the Dodgers and Orioles who start worse SS then Crosby
Others are defensive - Aybar, Izturis, Bartlett, even if they can’t hit - or they’re offensive (in a good way), even if they’re mediocre fielders—Lowrie, Jeter. I guess Tejada’s about as bad as Crosby this year. Who else is there?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's defensive
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think your premise is correct
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Aug 12, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question on options/DFA
Earlier in the year, DiNario was DFAd. He cleared waivers and accepted the assignment to Sacramento. This time, he was optioned. So the question: Can you option a guy after the DFA process in the same season, or did DiNardo have an option left?
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He had an option left
The A’s just wanted the roster space when they DFAed him earlier in the year.
One of the reasons I was extremely surprised he cleared waivers is that because he had an option left, a team that claimed him could stash him in AAA and didn’t have to put him on the 25-man. It’s a lot easier for players who are out of options to clear outright waivers, and DiNardo wasn’t.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words, he's so bad that his team
elected to DFA him when it could just have sent him to the minors, and 29 teams decided he wasn’t good enough to pick up for AAA.
Pecs!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they needed the 40-man spot for somebody at the time
So just sending him down wouldn’t have been enough. But the second part of that is true!
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Gray?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 12, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming Jeff Gray is Santana MkII.
He appears to be untouchable.
by OldhamA on Aug 12, 2008 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, now we get to find out
that Pennington is also not very good.
Whoop-de-doo.
I think he’ll stick as a backup infielder—having a guy who can steal a base off the bench and play acceptable defense is useful, if not exciting—but I think his chances of becoming a league-average starter are close to nil. There are basically two players in MLB who are capable of sustaining an OBP higher than their SLG, and neither Reggie Willits nor Luis Castillo is very good at offense. Maybe Pennington is the next Castillo, but I’m not even close to convinced of that yet.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 5:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But...But he could be the next Alex Sanchez!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least the next Rajai Davis
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 12, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not predicting this, but if he can do that as a shortstop
I think he’ll be more useful than Castillo, and definitely more useful than Willits just because he’s going to be a shortstop.
I keep seeing different things with regards to his defense, and I think that’s affected by his offense. Some places indicate he’s very good defensively, others just say he’s “all glove,” which doesn’t necessarily mean he’s great with it. I guess how useful I think he’ll be depends entirely on how good he is defensively.
by thejd44 on Aug 12, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul, I have a theory for you that I wanna try out along those lines
I’d be interested for any of our statistically-savvy brethren to weigh in on this and tell me if it passes the sniff test.
This is going to be poorly worded…Would you agree with me that a minor-leaguer with a history of good plate discipline/strike zone judgment, but very little power, is more likely than the average minor leaguer to see his statlines falter significantly once he reaches the bigs?
And by that I mean, a guy who profiles like Pennington, or Hannahan to a lesser extent, is prone to seeing a larger dropoff in numbers as he reaches the majors than a player who achieved the same OPS figures but had more of a balance between OBP and isoSLG?
I base my theory on this: To a major league pitcher with major league stuff and command, Hannahan and Pennington and pose virtually zero power threat, so there’s no incentive to pitch around them whatsoever. This puts guys like Hannahan and Pennington in constant pitcher’s counts at the MLB level. Whereas, their high OBP stats in AAA are somewhat inflated by AAA pitchers’ inability to throw strikes as consistently.
I guess in that statement I’m making an argument or subjective value judgment that a more important skill is to be able to punish mistakes (isoSLG) with doubles or homers, rather than singles. Otherwise, pitchers have no incentive to pitch around you…which I think Hannahan and Pennington (will) run into.
Another way of wording this is, if you compared the current AAA stats of Joe Gaetti and Pennington, whose stats are more likely to translate into the next level – the no power, on-base guy; or the bad k-to-walk, great power guy?
"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by notsellingjeans on Aug 13, 2008 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's an interesting theory
Here’s PECOTA’s take on two players:
Ivan Ochoa (Pennington was in AA last year)
2007 AAA: .296/.337/.430 (isoSLG .134)
2008 PECOTA Projection (EQ stats): .253/.317/.358
Nelson Cruz
2007 AAA: .352/.428/.698 (isoSLG .346)
2008 PECOTA Projection (EQ stats): .253/.324/.466
Ochoa’s OPS, then, is projected to take a 12% hit at the major league level.
Cruz’s is projected to take a 30% hit.
This is (admittedly) a tiny sample size analysis and relies upon the assumption that PECOTA is making roughly the calculation you describe to project these players.
If we can accept those limitations, however, it would appear that you’ve got it backwards. One explanation could be that the difference in ability to throw strikes is minimal between AAA/MLB but that MLB pitchers have dramatically better stuff. Someone like Cruz may live by punishing mistakes and pounding bad pitches while MLB pitchers won’t give him those opportunities. Ochoa, on the other hand, will still get his singles by virtue of putting a lot of balls in play.
Important note: the previous paragraph comes completely out of my ass.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 13, 2008 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking out of MY ass, perhaps the Ochoa/Cruz projections
mostly reflect age – that players excelling in the minors in their late 20s are more likely to be AAAA than players excelling in their early 20s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 13, 2008 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But there were no good pecotas for Pennington (AA last year) and Gaetti (no page created) so I figured I’d look for somewhat similar guys who did AAA in 2007
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Aug 13, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I subscribe to this theory
although I think the difference in control between AAA and MLB pitchers can be overstated at times.
I think it’s probably generally true that guys with extreme skills in one area and extreme weaknesses in another area will do worse at higher levels than guys who have balanced games. An extremely high walk:hit ratio and an extremely low walk:hit ratio may both be worse than a normal one.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't do any worse
Might as well try him out for the next month. I only want him to bat .250 so my expectations are not high.
by Arcman on Aug 12, 2008 5:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In regards to Patterson vs. Pennington
Patterson is excelling at AAA hitting around .330 while Pennington is only hitting .265. The call-ups don’t appear to be based on merrit—maybe the A’s are just taking an up-close look at everybody at Sac?
by BlueMoon on Aug 12, 2008 6:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pennington has been sizzling hot lately, though
The A’s definitely called Bankston up the first time because he was hot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's what they're doing,
it would explain why the offense is so bad, because that’s a totally nonsensical justification for a transaction.
I would hope Beane would know better than to put any credence in the notion of hot streaks.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2008 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They pretty much said as much when they called up Bankston
the first time. And it worked – he continued swinging well for 7-10 days before remembering he’s Wes Bankston.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 12, 2008 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't post so much of the piece
and post a link that doesn’t work. It makes the SF Gate people angry.
Thank you.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 12, 2008 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My bad.
Now I know.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Aug 12, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And knowing is half the battle
;-)
by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 13, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thx Hawk!
Can I be Snake Eyes?
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Aug 13, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel sad for Eric Patterson
He didn’t get his own diary.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Aug 14, 2008 12:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Too many strickouts!!!!111
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Aug 14, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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