GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES PEOPLE!
by jlanning17 on Jul 9, 2008 8:13 AM PDT
54 comments
seriously, everybody needs to calm down about 'the trade.' how many people freaked out when hudson, mulder, swisher, and haren were traded? how many of you were screaming bloody murder and calling billy beane an idiot when you heard about those trades? i know i was a little shell-shocked after hudson and mulder, but then after i saw how (most of) the guys we got in those trades developed and performed, i learned to be patient with billy's moves. i know it's tough because we're in a playoff race right now, but just take it down a notch.
remember that the Oakland A's are a players team with a players coach. geren and the organization as a whole get the most (or more) out of their players. other than milton bradley (and gaudin to a small extent earlier this year), can you recall a player ever trash-talking his time in oakland? geren does a great job with young guys and he will continue to do so. this guy gallagher is going to be fine. he was excellent in the minors and he's starting his major league career with a little bit of a letdown, but he's 22. take it easy on him.
aside from my rosy outlook on gallagher, i'd like to stick to my original feeling: give it a few weeks, maybe months. let's see how the season plays out. if gallagher stinks up the joint, scream about billy after the season. until you've seen gallagher perform (and i mean 10 starts, not his first inning) in the green and gold, get off his back.
and no knock on harden, because i loved him as much as all of you, but he really wasn't dependable. do i have to reiterate any of his DL stats? how many of you felt a sinking feeling when you read his recent quotes about 'dead arm' and you read about 4-5 mph missing from his fastball? after 4 years (or whatever it has been) of rich, i have to say i think it would be better to have a guy with a 3.00-3.50 ERA for 30-35 starts than a guy with a 2.00-2.50 ERA for 15-20 starts, especially when you don't know when those 15-20 starts will occur. what would you be screaming about if he had to hit the DL in the beginning of september???
over the years i've learned to trust billy beane and if you all really are fans of the A's, you should too. he deserves the benefit of the doubt given his track record.
go A's!!!
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Yea, a total steal on our part
Tim Hudson has not been the same since Oakland.
Dan Meyer has won 2 Cy Youngs.
Hudson trade wasn't even bad
It was a walk year trade, and Hudson wasn’t even stellar or anything in 2005…took him a couple years to get back to his form.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
I still maintain that the Hudson deal
was a very good trade. We were going to lose Hudson before we could contend again anyway, and we got a pitcher about as good as Danny Haren back – he just happened to get hurt when no one had any reason to fear an injury.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And Juan Cruz was probably given up on too soon
Because he’s been quite good for most of the rest of his career.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
who is Dan Meyer?
"the A's need more quality preembreetive pitching" ~monkeyball
by OptimistPrime on Jul 9, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Christ, what an ahold.
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
I think I figured this whole thing out
Beane is going to cash in some favors in the Blue Jays-A’s pipeline and pick up Burnett in a salary dump type deal where the A’s pay some crappy prospects and take half the salary and the Blue Jays take the other half.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
Thank God - we're dangerously short on pitching right now
Can we give the Jays some of our extra #3-#4 hitters?
-Sammy Sarcasm
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
:)
We are short a playoff starter with #1 stuff (Apologies to Justin). Burnett on the cheap would be a good gamble.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
I know!
Let’s trade them Thomas for Scutaro. We could use the middle infielder with some pop.
"the A's need more quality preembreetive pitching" ~monkeyball
by OptimistPrime on Jul 9, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!1!
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
WE CAN'T!! THIS HURTS TOO MUCH!!! Ahhhh
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/lacertabattuereadpax
Make sure to add me!
Dumb and Dumber:
[after Lloyd trades the van in for a moped]
Lloyd: I get 70 miles to the gallon on this hog.
Harry: Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!
oAkLaNd AtHlEtIcS!!
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Jul 9, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
You sound JUST like the sheep
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What sheep?
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/lacertabattuereadpax
Make sure to add me!
Dumb and Dumber:
[after Lloyd trades the van in for a moped]
Lloyd: I get 70 miles to the gallon on this hog.
Harry: Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!
oAkLaNd AtHlEtIcS!!
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Jul 10, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Terrence Long badmouthed his time in Oakland, IIRC. It was a while ago, under a different coach. And honestly I am loathe to take TLong’s side there (watch strike 3 slide by you in game 5 of the ALDS and you lose a lot of credibilty in my eyes).
"Save The Oaks: Overthrow Capitalism" said Dumpster Muffin sanguinely
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
all i'm really saying...
is to give your collective blood pressure a rest. free agents go bust all the time, deadline deals turn into a waste of prospects, players come out of nowhere to have all-star years… it happens all the time. i just think it isn’t worth it to get all hot and bothered before we even see what we got back. we know what we lost, and that definitely hurts, but we have no idea how these guys are going to play as A’s.
and yeah, the hudson deal didn’t really work out too well as far as getting stars in return, but it isn’t like he’s been in the Cy Young mix the whole time he’s been with the braves (in the NL, too, aka AAAA). for what he’s getting paid, looking at the big picture, i would kind of call that a wash. the mulder deal obviously worked out well, as did the swisher and haren deals.
btw – does anybody know why it’s always written A’s with the apostrophe? isn’t that usually reserved for the possessive? is it simply because As looks kind of weird? misusing apostrophes gets me every time, so i cringe whenever i type A’s…
Hold On
While I tend to agree with your overall sentiment, The Hudson trade was in no way even close to a wash. We got Juan Cruz , Charles Thomas, and Dan Meyer, none of whome have contributed nearly as much as Hudsons 750 + innings, 3.73 ERA since leaving the A’s.
by wordfromthewise on Jul 9, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
If you consider that the A's were going to lose Hudson
after 2005 anyway, that he pitched poorly in 2005, and that in dumping his salary we were able to keep/get others we couldn’t have otherwise (which Beane specifically confirmed), you could actually make the argument that the deal was a wash as is. It’s a stretch, but not ridiculous.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He didn't pitch poorly in 2005
He pitched poorly in 2006.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Stop messing up my excellent arguments
with your facts.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm sorry
I agree that people are overreacting to the Harden trade, but calling the Hudson trade a wash is ridonkulous. Since getting traded to Atlanta, Hudson has produced the following seasons:
2005: 120 ERA+ in 192 IP
2006: 91 ERA+ in 218.3 IP
2007: 128 ERA+ in 22.3 IP
2008: 128 ERA+ in 121.3 IP so far.
That’s 2 1/2 seasons and counting of ace caliber pitchinig, and one season in which he ate innings like a 4th starter. To get that, the Braves have paid him $29M / 3. They owe him $13M for 2009, and then have an option in 2010 for $12M. Hudson’s contract is arguably the best FA pitching contract in MLB.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
a season and a half
"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006
err... right
my bad.
Hardly a catastrophy we didn’t have his 2006 numbers though. There’s no chance we would have kept him in ‘07/’08
Why no chance?
$47M / 4 for Tim Hudson is hardly onerous. I’d much rather pay Hudson, than pay Loaiza, Piazza at the end of his career, Emil Brown.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Hudson gave hometown discount
You guys are forgetting that Hudson is from Georgia and wanted to pitch for the Braves when analyzing his salary amount.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
I'm responding to his statement
about what Hudson is being paid.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
good points all around
the hudson trade kind of underscores my point: the guys we got in return were “future studs” and “big time prospects” at the time of the trade. as we all know, things didn’t pan out the way writers at espn, the mercury times, the chronicle, etc thought they would. nobody has a reliable crystal ball, especially when it comes to young professional athletes. these guys could turn out to be ballers, harden could go to the 60-day DL next week, billy could trade 1-2 of these guys to somebody else who specifically covets them and get a big bat, and we could be shivering in the coliseum in late october. i’m mostly sick of hearing people tear billy beane apart. another thread implored people to trust in billy, and another poster pointed out oakland’s winning percentage in the last 10 years. he deserves the benefit of the doubt and we should see how the rest of the 2008 season plays out before we threaten to boo players and stop going to games.
It's a contraction
The apostrophe represents the missing letters. Usually, apostrophes represent “i” (as in, he’s instead of he is). In this case, it represents “thletic”...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No, not a contraction.
If that were the case, then when we referred to a player in the singular we’d call him an A’, which of course we don’t.
JLanning pretty much got it right with “simply because As looks kind of weird”.
Chicago Manual of Style, 6.10:
Abbreviations with periods, lowercase letters used as nouns, and capital letters that would be confusing if s alone were added form the plural with an apostrophe and an s.
[emphasis mine]
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
Well, you would call "said person"...
an Athletic, in the singular.
If you refer to Harden as an A’s. That would be wrong.
He was an A’s player, in the A’s organization. both of which are plural.
Or… An Oakland A.
"These Boston People Are AWFUL"
You know...
apostrophes also are used to account for missing letters. Don’t you?
"These Boston People Are AWFUL"
Ray Ratto from the SF Chronicle weighs in on the subject:
“Trade didn’t address A’s most pressing needs”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2008/07/08/SPFE11LLCR.DTL
Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!
Unless the trade got 7 or 8 guys
that can hit for power and average in Oakland all season long over multiple seasons then it wouldn’t/didn’t address the A’s most pressing needs. But the trade is okay with me not that that means much though
Ratto is an "shole"
"the A's need more quality preembreetive pitching" ~monkeyball
by OptimistPrime on Jul 9, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
the problem with the trade is that Billy waived the white flag
for the season. If we DO make the playoffs we want to at least have the CHANCE of a healthy Harden to pitch in them. We are not that far back, we have a history of great play in July and Aug and a healthy Harden would be critical to winning a series in them. none of the guys we got are going to help us win a playoff series. Whether the trade works out for future years does not matter for THIS year. A year with a good possibility of making the playoffs (injurys and bad hitting not withstanding) and if we did make it having Duke and Harden would have been huge. I want hope now not later.
He is not waving a white flag..
he sold some-what high on a often injured player.
When will then be now? Soon.
As more time goes on...
...I am reminded of the economic advantage of having information. Billy Beane has all of the “lemon” information about this car and therefore is in the best situation with the most information to attach a price to it. Beane might just KNOW he’s hurt/not right while other people have to speculate.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
I dunno.
me personally, I view having Emil DFA Brown on the roster, and making minimal attempts to improve the poor offense that struggles to score runs, not showing any interest in Bonds, as waving a big while flag.
The A’s problem isn’t pitching.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Insanity
How in the world can anyone look at the Hudson trade and not regard it as a disaster? Yeah, it’s true that no one could have known that Meyer’s career would be destroyed by injury (or that Thomas would completely suck), but does that mean that the Mulder trade should be viewed as a so-so trade because, after all, the Cardinals couldn’t have known that his career would be destroyed by injury? I’d love to have my performance evaluated that way: take credit for everything that worked out (for whatever reason) but make “who could have known?” excuses for everything that didn’t work out. BIlly’s got a pretty good record without ANers making lame excuses for him.
Billy has his good reasons lower the payroll now, stock up for Fremont but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t waiving the flag this year. Of course he’s waiving the flag for this year. He doesn’t care about this year. The people denying this now are the same people who maintained that last year’s DFA of Bradley wouldn’t hurt the club.
Objectively, waiving Bradley helped the club
They got Andrew Brown and a higher draft pick. The team wasn’t making the playoffs with or without Bradley.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It's easy, solotar - trades have to be judged
by the info available at the time. The trade wouldn’t have been smarter on our end had Hudson been run over by a bus the day after. Meyer was projected right around where Haren was projected, with the same timeline (growing pains in 2005, emerging quickly from there). So we traded Hudson for someone just like Haren, plus two filler parts. Had it been Haren who had gotten hurt and not Meyer, the Hudson trade would look great.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We can look at it because we aren't Monday Morning Quarterbacks
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
Whenever I get ahold of myself people say I'm going to go blind
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
Um, we're over here
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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