Harden and Gaudin for Peanuts. Sports as a rigged game.
by jrfelix on Jul 8, 2008 8:47 PM PDT
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PrintSo we just witnessed Rich Harden, the player with the most strikeouts per nine innings in the major leagues, and another quality starting pitcher, Chad Gaudin, get traded to Chicago for "Sean Gallagher, outfielders Matt Murton and Eric Patterson and minor leaguer Josh Donaldson."
Harden's pitching was beautifully described by Buck Showalter on ESPN, who said his "stuff is wipe-out filthy."
Here are some fun facts about the players Harden and Gaudin were traded for.
Murton was a former top prospect for the Cubs, but he's shuttled between Triple-A Iowa and Chicago the past two seasons. He's hitting .250 in 40 at-bats.
Gallagher is 3-4 with a 4.45 ERA in 12 games.
Patterson was hitting .237 with a homer and seven RBIs in 38 at-bats with the Cubs.
Donaldson, a catcher for Class A Peoria, was hitting .217 with six homers.
Where is the prize prospect a team should be required to give up for a young ace like Harden? Gallagher is the best player in the deal for the A's, and his numbers are much worse than Gaudin's!
So here's my question.
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This is Crazy
This is not an indefensible trade that proves MLB is rigged. I think we should have gotten more, but we did pretty well considering Harden has a dead arm.
As sad as it is Murton is one of the 3 best hitters on our team (and may finally be enough to DFA DFA – technicolor DFA resistant dreamcoat or not)
Gallagher is a legitimate prospect (and we’ll control him forever)
As far as your poll, grow up.
+1
+1 for cheese, too.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
I very happy
that cheese is running away with this poll.
I’m partial to sharp cheddar (Cabot especially), but I put some chevre on a veggie burger with hummus the other day and it was awesome.
chevre: not French enough
... arousing men to burst the chains under which monkeyish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves ... @('.')@
Gruyere, Stillton
and Emmenthal.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
we'd have to throw Gaudin in if we want a fourth cheese
... arousing men to burst the chains under which monkeyish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves ... @('.')@
70 innings a year for the last 4
And two “dead arm” starts in succession? And you think this was lopsided??
Wow - if polls are to be believed,
you like cheese quite a bit.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That was me.
I voted for cheese like 9 times.
by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 8, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if....
“i like cheese” was intentional…..because this posts sounds like it would be great with “whine”.....
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
by ST on Jul 8, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Cheese is winning
because all the other choices are wrong.
“I like cheese” = “none of the above”.
(Unless you don’t like cheese, in which case I guess you just don’t vote.)
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
I still think that unless you could have gotten a true real-deal haul for Harden...
...You are much better off gambling that he happens to be healthy for a playoff series. This is not the deal I wanted to see. The problem with this trade compared to the Mulder/Hudson gambles is that when Harden is healthy, he is arguably the best pitcher in the league. Having the best pitcher in the league is what wins playoff series.
I never, ever used to buy into the Beane builds playoff contenders but not “championship contenders”. I was very bullish on the Mulder and Hudson trades at the time—Because those guys were very very very good 220 IP pitchers, but they weren’t guys that were particularly likely to shutout the Red Sox or Yankees when it counted. Harden is the guy you want in the playoffs. All the guys they got for him are the type that help you get to the playoffs, they aren’t the guys that win the playoffs for you.
I hate to say it, but I sortof hope that Harden’s arm falls off and Duke really is Chris Carpenter redux and the A’s “2006 St. Louis Cardinals” it up—But really I would rather have gambled on 1.5 years of Harden than taken anything less than an A+ prospect back. Mind you, my opinion would be much different if the A’s were out of the race—then you take what you can get. But they were legit contenders with their pitching composition before the trade for 2008 and 2009 regardless of how bad the offense was, and now they are just short an ace and offense. I’m really scratching my head over this one.
Hopefully I’m proven wrong, but right now I’m sad.
And I answered I like cheese, because I still believe in Billy.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
think about it
you’re really talking about one playoff series—next year. Realistically there won’t be one this year. And that Harden-- against the proven odds- will be healthy. And all the time knowing that you really can’t resign him if he is healthy. I give BB credit for taking what he could get now. I think he played the odds right.
I have thought about it a lot
The point is you have to win it all sometime, and you have to maximize your chances sometimes.
And to say realistically there is no chance this year ignores all the year-to-date statistics. I think this team is well built for the long haul, and trading Harden makes sense with company policy, but Jesus-F’ing-Christ, you just spent $5m on a 16-year-old can’t miss that will help us win in 2013—They need Harden to win now.
If they had gotten LaPorta, or hell even Adam Dunn or some crap I’d be much happier. But they didn’t a.)fill a need or b.) get a stud in the trade. It just makes no sense. Roll the damned dice, Josh Beckett keeps winning World Series for teams, and Harden is just simply better when healthy (which he happens to be).
The thing that bothers me the most, is the A’s, even without Harden, are good enough to contend for a playoff spot because of the overall pitching depth and the “fact” that the offense can’t really get much worse than it is. They haven’t hit in months and are still in the freaking race. I can just see them getting there still anyways somehow, but not having the starting pitching anymore to beat good offenses.
Another MAJOR problem I have is that Harden hasn’t really had any REAL structural damage like a Prior or a Wood, just constant nagging injuries. That means that even if he were to get hurt and miss a few more starts this year, he’d still have trade value in the offseason—The same trade value in what they got for him.
They didn’t “sell high”, the sold for less than what they could have gotten in the offseason and gave up Gaudin. Whatever happened to the old adage trade starters in the offseason and relievers during the season. Harden isn’t even in a freaking walk year, if the value they got for him didn’t approach Sabathia’s value, it makes no sense to move him—Gamble that he stays healthy for a.) winning percentage value this season and b.) more trade value in the offseason. Again, it’s just I feel like they didn’t get anything in this deal they don’t already have or couldn’t easily get, so if you aren’t going to get one of those things, why pull the trigger, and why include Gaudin?
Maybe Gallagher is somehow a god or something, but I just don't see it. But admittedly, that's where Beane has a lot more credibility on the matter than I do. Getting only Meyer basically for Hudson wasn't a total disaster because it was the final year of the contract anyways, and Beane made a haul for Mulder and his final two years of service. Harden has 1.5 years left and where is the REAL value in this trade? Grrrrr.And Matt Murton, what’s the deal? He’s like gonna replace Cust or something when Thomas is healthy? I don’t want to bring up the early season Cust questions and reopen that whole can of worms, but Cust is once again approaching questionable major league talent (even for the DH position).
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
To be fair
1: Matt Murton is now one of our three best hitters, there’s room for him
2: Sad as it is, we may have filled a need for “2009 Starting 2B”
3: Beane seems to think Gallagher is a LOT better than PECOTA does. Picking between the two, I’ll trust Beane.
Gallagher's
4.45 ERA is a result of playing half his games in a hitter’s park. League average ERA in Wrigley is 4.48.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
There is no upside to the deal. A's were robbed big time.
Was Beane a former Cub? This is very Kevin Mchale’ish type of trade. There is no upside. The A’s were robbed.
They basically traded Harden for garbage. Then they also throw in Gaudin.
If Harden give the A’s 10 more games at his current level in the next one and a half years it was worth keeping him. They’d get the draft picks.
Beane is getting too full of himself thinking he is a god at evaluating talent. If he was that good then why did the farm system need restocking? This is univerally regarded as a garbage trade. None of the four ‘JOBBERS’ the Cubs traded(dumped) to the A’s will ever become anything even approaching Gaudin, much less Harden in his prime. This is an insane trade and I’d check Beane’s bank account because he had to get paid extra on the side for allowing this robbery.
Deep Breath
This is univerally regarded as a garbage trade.
I’ve heard no one (except on AN) say anything like that.
If he was that good then why did the farm system need restocking?
Because we kept losing MLB players to FA and calling up our best minor leaguers
Dumbest post in a while.
But, interestingly, a variation of this was posted when Beane traded Swisher, Ethier, Quintanilla, Marcus McBeth, Mark Mulder, Dan Haren, and when Zito was let go without an offer.
We’re the A’s. It’s what we do. We turn one fading star into several stars-to-be.
Get over it, or go learn some Red Sox songs.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
Relax Folks! Go With Billy's Excellent Track Record!
Harden was simply too injury prone! This is the right move! And keep in mind, if you think the dealing is over, I’ve got some beach front property in Arizona that you might be interested in! Something tells me you all felt the same way about the Haren trade!
Shane F. Wray
Gaudin
I’m almost more sad to see Gaudin leave than Harden. He was effective and cheap. I don’t think he was being fully used to his capabilities by Geren. That’s all a moot point now though i guess
I suspect years 4-6 of Gallagher will end up being more expensive than Gaudin
(Assuming Gallagher isn’t total jank, I mean.)
So the A’s will have gotten more but also paid more to get it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No reason to assume that
We’ve got a lot of league-minimum years coming (and a huge pipeline of SP) so who knows if we’ll ever pay him a salary his talent deserves.
Additionally, money spent four years from now is worth less that money spent now. Certainly we save money for the next few seasons as Gaudin gets a real salary and Gallagher doesn’t
To be honest
The league minimum is all gaudin deserved for the role he was being used in. He was overpaid for being a mop up relief pitcher. As a fifth starter, he would be underpaid, but we have too many young pitchers in the minors to ever need him as a starter again.
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