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Harden And Gaudin To Cubs For Four Players (cont.)

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_tiny by Nico on Comment 458 comments

Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin have been traded to the Chicago Cubs for pitcher Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton, and minor leaguers Eric Patterson and John Donaldson.

Seemed like a new thread might be in order, so I thought I’d offer one with a few stray thoughts (bullets not available for 5 days in California – but bullet points are!):

•    The A’s are good both at scouting and at player development, so one can assume that in at least some of the players acquired, Oakland felt that regardless of good they look on the stat sheet now, the player can turn into something special under A’s coaching. Remember that Sean Gallagher will become “Sean Gallagher under Curt Young’s guidance,” Patterson’s physical talent will intersect with the A’s minor league instruction and organizational philosophies, and so on. It doesn’t matter how good these guys would have been with the Cubs – what matters is how good they can be with the A’s.

•    The moment Harden goes down for the count (3-0 if Eveland is pitching, but that’s another thread), the trade will look good. Put me in the camp that believes the A’s expect to see that happen before the season ends.

•    It’s clear that the A’s, just two games back of the Wild Card in the loss column, looked at their team and said, “There’s just no way,” because there is a real psychological cost to pulling the rug out from under a team that has competed against all odds. Perhaps Frank Thomas’ MRI report was unfavorable, or perhaps Beane knows in his heart that the team has overachieved, to this point, beyond what is sustainable for another 2.5 months.

•    I have to agree with those who say “Where’s the one potential ‘impact bat’” because the opportunity, when you trade someone as talented as Harden, is to get what you so desperately need and can’t afford on the free agent market. If the A’s got that hitter, I don’t see him, so that’s disappointing.

What the heck, though – let’s just keep doing it with mirrors and confound the pundits, this year and beyond.

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First!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 8, 2008 4:53 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I agree with the Camden Chat policy on doing this

Viz., autoban.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Don't

You’ll see I’ve never done it on here, but to ban people for nonsensical posts would mean banning A LOT of people. Bottom line, if it’s not SPAM or abusive, no ban.

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no it's nonsense

it would be SPAM if he (or anyone else) put 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.

As it stands, it’s just an internet phenomenon (I forget the word that is often use) like “fail”, “pwn3d”, or even “lol”.

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(ii) meme

and (i) think horizontally (across new threads) rather than vertically.

by green star oakland on Jul 8, 2008 5:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CGV

At least let people know not to do it before banning.

by green star oakland on Jul 8, 2008 5:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you weren't so slow

then you could be first. Don’t be hating on santoswoodenlegs because he’s quick.

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Jul 8, 2008 6:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

40 Man Roster

Gaudin and Harden are subtracted, but Murton, Gallagher, and Patterson are added. So what happens?

Does Emil Brown finally get DFAd? Does Thomas or Sweeney get moved to the 60-day DL for the time being? Or maybe even Joey Devine, who isn’t close to returning?

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 4:56 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sweeney was moved to the 60-day DL

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 8, 2008 4:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The point is

Here is the point: Murton clearly fell out of favor with the Cubs and Patterson wasn’t going to sniff the 25-man roster. So, those two should have been throw-ins at best.

Then, Gallagher is a solid player and you get a C prospect… C prospect are the worst type of prospects. They almost never make it to the majors… it is such a crap shoot.

So, as far as I am concerned, this is a horrible trade now, and 3 years from now. It is a gimmee. I don’t care how much of a risk Harden is; at some point, he is worth the lack of a return. Plus, the Cubs get at least a solid 5th SP / LRP in Gaudin. Horrible deal. And I like Gallagher somewhat.

At the same point in time, the Cubs were the ones that clearly wanted Harden for quite some time, so this must have been the best deal available… that sucks and that is why I think the A’s should have kept Harden anyway… unless his health really is that bad… sigh…

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 4:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   2 recs

Murton and Patterson

Murton and Patterson didn’t have a lot of value to the Cubs because of Kosuke Fukudome, Alfonso Soriano, and Derrek Lee. It’s not that Patterson and Murton aren’t good players, its that the Cubs have long term deals bottlenecking the positions these guys can play.

I think the risk to the Cubs of Harden getting injured is enormous in sight of what this trade looks like if he gets injured again.

Also, Gaudin is not likely to start in Chicago. There are six other guys above him on the depth chart as starters.

"At the end of the day, boys, you don't tell me how rough the water is, you bring in the ship." – Steve Stone
The Cubdom

by Pestilence on Jul 8, 2008 5:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But that's my point

You even admit Murton and Patterson didn’t have value to the Cubs… so, why should the A’s value your trash?

6 guys, eh? Are you serious? Your trash ain’t that great. I’m guessing this is your 6:

Z
Lilly
Dempster
Marquis
Marshall
Lieber

Well, Lieber ain’t better. Marquis is approximately equivalent, but since he costs so much more, I would say no. Dempster is pitching out of his mind… this is his career year… it isn’t likely to last past this year and he isn’t under control like Gaudin.

But look, the point is, is that Gaudin could start and that is very valuable on every team…. pitching wins championships… not marginal major leaguers.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Harden

I’m guessing he is including Harden in the 6. Sort of ironic that Chad wanted to be traded – or at least have the A’s move one of their starters – so he could be a SP again.

by Larry E on Jul 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sad

really sad…......I don’t know what else to say. I know
BB is probably doing cartwheels somewhere but I’m not.

by mrod on Jul 8, 2008 6:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think I'm going to be sick.

More average, at best, punchless hitters for this team.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 4:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Yeah, it DOES matter how good they were with the Cubs...

... because unless one has some Kool-Aid induced belief that the A’s big-league and minor-league coaches are 100 times as good as the coaches in the Cubs system, the players acquired today are unlikely to substantially outperform the Cubs’ projection of them. Which means the A’s probably acquired zero future MLB regulars today.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's trade EVERYBODY

I don’t feel like playing anymore

by petitceebee on Jul 8, 2008 4:58 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For real.

Might as well unload Duke, Ellis, and Crosby.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 4:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you might get what you wish for :(

The first rule of Oakland is - you do not talk about injuries. The second rule of Oakland is - you DO NOT talk about trainers." - Larry Davis

by norcalfan on Jul 8, 2008 6:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, time to be optimistic

How much have the A’s really lost here for this year?

Gaudin wasn’t being used in a useful role anyway, right? Yes, he’s good, but he wasn’t being utilized.

And Harden plays once every five days. He’s pretty freakin awesome when he plays, but how much worse than him will Gallagher be really?

And if Murton can be an upgrade over Brown – and really, how could he not – maybe this team isn’t any worse this year. In fact, they could be a smidge better that they would be in 2 weeks if Harden is DLd again.

This trade could mean more are coming, but I can still see them sticking around in contention well into September.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gallagher projects as below-average filler

In the Coliseum, that’s probably about 1.5 runs per 9 innings worse than Harden. About 15 runs.

Gaudin’s impact is hard to measure vis a vis the rest of the bullpen. Murton should be better than Emil Brown by maybe 5 runs in limited playing time. No idea whether Patterson is going to see any time or not.

I’m saying it’s a 15 run downgrade for the remainder of this season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's Ghallagher's projection for just this season, yeah?

I’ve heard him to be a solid #3 when all’s said in done. Which doesn’t exactly make me want to take a cold shower, or anything, but certainly is better than below-average filler.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was only talking about this season

I expect Gallagher to pitch like Cory Lidle—decent enough but nothing that anyone really cares about.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sean Gallagher is a good pitcher

He’s still young, and he’s underrated because he’s short, but I’d say a #3 starter is a good projection for him.

"At the end of the day, boys, you don't tell me how rough the water is, you bring in the ship." – Steve Stone
The Cubdom

by Pestilence on Jul 8, 2008 5:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

true, he’s still young at 22 and has a little MLB experience, so he’s got upside. I can see him as a decent #4

Procrastinators unite....tomorrow

by muffinpryde on Jul 8, 2008 6:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't.

I don’t see him being better then Cahill or Gonzales

by petitceebee on Jul 8, 2008 6:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't either

but you never know…

Procrastinators unite....tomorrow

by muffinpryde on Jul 8, 2008 6:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

below-average?

What are you basing this “projection” on?

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Jul 8, 2008 5:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno, his career 86 ERA+?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gaudin's numbers and sample size

Considering he’s appeared in 20 games and made 10 starts, I’d imagine that sample size isn’t something you can project for his whole career.

And everyone’s golden boy Chad Gaudin? His career ERA+ is 98 and it was 95 as a starter last year. As a starter this year (his FIRST as a starter at the MLB level) Gallagher’s ERA+ is 101. Not great by any stretch but certainly a starting point.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Jul 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again

Pitching with an excruciatingly painful broken bone in the foot does not, on average, improve a player’s performance.

He couldn’t sink his sinker all the second half of last season because he could barely stand to finish his arm motion.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we'll see

Not sure what to wager but I bet you Sean Gallagher has a better career as a starter than Chad Gaudin…

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Jul 8, 2008 5:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

baseball reference comparisons

They have some Hall of Fame monitors where they determine a number and if it reaches a certain level you’re considered a Hall of Famer. I’ll get more details on it, but we could use something like that to compare them. Definitely think it’s something worth coming up with. If you guys want to email me, go to ninersnation.com, my email is at the bottom of the page.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Jul 8, 2008 6:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if gallagher wasn't a new A

i would take the bet. but i don’t bet against my team

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 8, 2008 6:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think

You’re over-exaggerating his injury a bit. I won’t deny that he had a broken bone or that it was painful or even hurting his effectiveness. But I don’t think it was excruciatingly painful and kept him from throwing his pitches. If that was the case then there is no way he could’ve pitched as long as he did. I’m in the camp that thinks that Gallagher is an upgrade now and in the future over Guadin.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jul 8, 2008 6:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

could be worse

he could be “under-exaggerating”

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 6:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you being serious here?

That career ERA+ came in 73.3 innings, all by age 22. Would you have said that John Danks projects as below average filler, after 2007, based on his 86 ERA+ in 2007 at age 22?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 9, 2008 2:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's probably about right

and it’s not a huge downgrade. On the other hand, on the (small but still not negligible) chance that they did somehow get hot and steal a playoff spot, not having Harden would loom much larger. A team with Harden and Duchscherer starting more than half its games would always be a threat in a short playoff series, no matter how putrid its offense is.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

It’s probably a 5% win probability downgrade for a 5 game series, maybe more.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Healthy Harden

Assuming Harden stays healthy.

by Larry E on Jul 8, 2008 5:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Gaudin was a guy picked up off of waivers by the A’s last year.
Harden is a guy that hasn’t made 12 consecutive starts in 4+ years or so.

They have roughly 22 years of cost control :

1. Matt Murton service = 2.055
2. Gallagher service = 0.070
3. Patterson service = .012
4. Donaldon—minor leagues

Murton is an upgrade to Emil and cheaper.
Gallagher can pitch as well as Gaudin.
Patterson may be a replacement to Ellis (if he sticks at 2b, which I’m sure the A’s will try)

by echerrst on Jul 8, 2008 5:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bad basis

Basing a trade purely on upgrades that are debatable, is therefore not an upgrade. Secondly, picking a quality player off of waivers only shows that that GM is smarter than a lot of other GMs, especially the one cuting him. Control of players does count for a lot, but it isn’t everything when the return is so modest on a per/year basis. Plus, you assume that they are all going to contribute significantly every year while they are under control… bad assumption.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

twisting this a bit

one could accept gaudin and gallagher as equivalents – guys who have spent time as starters, but not overwhelming results.

that leaves somewhere between 0 and 1.5 years of Harden (and between 0 and 1 compensation picks) for Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson.

obviously, if Murton becomes a plus outfielder locked up for multiple years, and 50% harden seems about the right bet, it’s not illogical. But emotionally, I would much rather have the chance of 1.5 years of a dominant Harden over many years of Murton and maybe Patterson. Certainly don’t want to see the A’s management complaining about attendance.

by ojoe on Jul 8, 2008 5:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beane is mitigating risk, and selling high

Harden’s made 26 starts since 2005.

With the A’s current pitching depth, Gaudin was expendable.

Next year’s rotation likely would have been :
Duke
Blanton
Dana
Smith
t.b.d.

t.b.d. could have been Harden (if not hurt), Chad, or someone from the system. Gio has to be added to the 40 man to protect him from the rule V draft this off season. Meyer and Braden probably will get one more luck. Simmons, Cahill, Anderson, etc could maybe have filled the 5 spot, but probably need a bit more time in the minors.

by echerrst on Jul 8, 2008 5:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HA!

Selling high… um… no. What risk is there to mitigate? You admit Harden isn’t likely to play much past this point in the season, therefore, he has already passed his risk/reward level. So, I would argue that he is selling low and when the risk/reward level has already been met. I dunno…

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why is Blanton

in there??? Isn’t he on the same trading block as Harden???

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Definitely

another trade coming….........probably Mark Ellis which id really gonna piss me off!

by mrod on Jul 8, 2008 6:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So goes Life as an A's fan.

Get used to it or forever be unhappy.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 8, 2008 6:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is ironic that the Cubs would go after a young, hard-throwing, injury-prone righty.

by Eggman on Jul 8, 2008 4:59 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know you're joking

... but as a Cubs fan, that’s not funny. The Prior thing ended in the worst possible way for us. Murton and Gallagher are good players that will be contributing for at least the next few years.

"At the end of the day, boys, you don't tell me how rough the water is, you bring in the ship." – Steve Stone
The Cubdom

by Pestilence on Jul 8, 2008 5:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ive got to be reading this wrong

i mean, ive got to be reading this wrong
im missing something?
im missing something.

{throws up}

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 4:59 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

If you can somehow fuse him together with Murton

we might have a complete outfielder who still hits like shit but might play marginally better defense

by petitceebee on Jul 8, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

the good (?) news is, all but 4 or 5 of the A’s contracts expire at the end of the year.

question here is, do Chavez, Blanton, Street :( , go bye bye before the deadline too?

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Funny thing is...

I live in Jersey and of course the Nets (season ticket holder) and the A’s (wish I was a season ticket holder) are my favorite teams….week and a half ago the Nets trade their heart and soul, Richard Jefferson, and give up on the next 2 years….now the A’s give up on this season…terrible time for me as a sports fan…terrible

by mills16 on Jul 8, 2008 6:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Nets just got Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson

They’re my new 2nd favorite NBA team.

Of course, that’s not saying much, cause I hate the NBA. But don’t sell them short.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 6:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm trying to imagine a life in which

I have so much free time that I pay attention to trades in a sport that I don’t even like.

Even when I was unemployed, I had plenty of better things to do.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jul 8, 2008 9:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like college hoops

I just usually don’t care about them once they leave for the NBA…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 9, 2008 9:20 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw that

that’s nuts, right? they could blow up the whole team after the season, right? or is that what’s going on here?

by NYC A's Fan on Jul 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's because most young players are on 1-year deals

The A’s have the rights to a lot more than 4 or 5 players long after 2008.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're correct

actually, they’ll probably dump or at least minor league contract a bunch of the kids. they’ll use the lack of large contracts as an excuse to not give the kids big contracts. then when the new stadium comes… more spending.

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

7 Million reasons to trade Harden

The A’s had a club option to pay $7million to Rich for 2009. If they declined the option, he walks….If they pay him, they probably feel for less than 200 innings of work and the risk of injury and the costly medical expenses…..not worth it…...

AZfan

by AZFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The co-pays alone were probably

putting the A’s near bankruptcy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn that Kaiser health plan

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if that's true

The A’s had Harden’s rights through 2009. If they would have declined that option, he’s up for arbitration the way I understand the process. So really, they would only lose him next year if they told him to go away.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's trade Billy Beane

for a soccer player, a hot dog vendor, and an executive to be named later.

by FarkeyD on Jul 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe we'd finally get to a world series.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok ok ok...

Replace the word “Harden” with “Embree” and we’re good to go.

by BWH on Jul 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's quite possible that we could just send them Embree

and they’d never notice.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 8, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But Embree never gets hurt

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 5:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The big thing, and Nico touched on it

Is that there’s no future bat here. If you don’t think Gaudin’s great and you think Harden’s about to get hurt then fine, but if you’re not even bringing back one real hitting prospect then just what is the point?

If you’re going to do nothing with a trade of Harden (and Gaudin!) to address your biggest need (both for the present and future), why not just gamble on Harden’s health and see if you can get lucky this year? Because you still haven’t really made the team appreciably better for, say, 2009 or 2010.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Jul 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Exactly.

It doesn’t do any good to trade away your star for guys that aren’t going to help in the future. These guys are still going to be average players in 2-3 years. We can look forward and be optimistic about future success all we want, but what position players do we have to even that may be close to putting us over the top in the future? Cargon and Sweeney?

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Much as I wanted to see Harden traded...

... I agree with this assessment. Seriously, if you can’t get a true impact bat for your best asset, then what’s the point? I don’t think the A’s would have been in the playoffs this season even with Harden, but hell, unless this is some sort of precursor to a bigger deal (of which I am skeptical, since the biggest chip has already been moved), saddle up and go for it in 2008.

I mean, I’m glad we got a guy who Baseball America described as the next Jon Lieber and all, but that’s it?

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps with the money saved on Harden's salary,

and given that the A’s are already in good payroll shape, they will be acquiring (through trade or FA) an expensive but impact bat – for example, we acquired yet another young pitcher so perhaps a pitching prospect will be traded as part of a deal to get that coveted hitter. Just musing about possibilities we wouldn’t know about yet.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is true

I reiterate what I said below that I feel like this is all part of something grander that we’ll see come to fruition in the near future.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pleasebemannypleasebemannypleasebemannypleasebemannypleasebemannypleasebemanny

... arousing men to burst the chains under which monkeyish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves ... @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 8, 2008 5:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm on record ...

I loved the Haren deal, I loved the Swisher deal. I was sad to see those guys go, but when I looked at what we got back, I said, “I get it - fair trade - great value.”
This one completely baffles me … the only thing I can think is Beane knows Harden’s hurt. And Hendry said “wait a minute—why are you giving us Harden so cheap? We want Gaudin as insurance.”
Otherwise, I’m completely shocked. Right now, I feel like this deal isn’t even close. Advantage Cubs. BIG time.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust, Crosby, Devine

for Manny?

Then sign Bonds?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 8, 2008 6:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Manny has to decide where Manny wants to go

And Paul doesn’t think Manny wants to go to Oakland.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 6:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boston thinks

if Fremont builds a Green Monster for Manny to hang out in between innings, Manny would like Fremont

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 6:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this seems possible

Shades of 1999 when the A’s got rid of one guy (was it Kenny Rogers?) and appeared to be sellers, but then traded for a couple of other guys (Omar Olivares? Randy Velarde?) and appeared to be buyers. Also, Beane has repeatedly say he’d deal to improve the team for right now if it looked like the A’s might be in the race; and certainly he likes to zig when people expect him to zag …

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Jul 8, 2008 5:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And why the Cubs?

Why wouldn’t Beane trade Harden to SP-starved team like the Phillies? I know their farm system isn’t great either, but I would rather have a Lou Marson than a Josh Donaldson… and a Joe Savery and Jayson Werth at least.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One word

Sabathia

I miss Eric Plunk

by chuckcheeze on Jul 8, 2008 8:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jason Donald

their SS prospect was having a breakout type year in AA and is blocked by Rollings. Cardenas was also blocked. I was really hoping he would go to Philly.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2008 9:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think people are drastically overestimating Harden's value

Why would a team give up an impact bat for someone who’s next pitch could be his last? Harden is at about his 90% PECOTA projection this year.

What bat could the A’s have received for Harden?

by echerrst on Jul 8, 2008 5:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PECOTA ain't everything

That’s why they play games, man. I like the projection systems as much as the next, but hey, they are just projection systems.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Vitters, Pie?

And if you don’t like them, you find a different trade partner. And if nobody’s willing to even meet that price, then my point stands- why bother?

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Jul 8, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, why would the cubs, or any team, trade top prospects for -

Harden who has made a living on the bench for the last 4 years and Gaudin who is still unproven and decidedly average?

So, given that, Billy got what he could get, which would have been a fuck of a lot less whenever Harden hits the DL again.

I for one, am glad to see Harden gone. He wasn’t going to be part of the A’s future anyway. I wish him luck and I’m happy for Gaudin and the opportunity he will get in Chicago. And I don’t see how we are much worse off this year.

Again, I wasn’t counting on Rich Harden and it would be foolish for Billy to make that mistake any longer.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 8, 2008 6:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See above

(or was it the other thread) for my analysis of production for this season. I rate it as a 1-2 win downgrade.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 6:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand your math

and I can’t quibble, but there is an assumption that you have to make about Harden’s health that is a bit of a reach, IMHO

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 8, 2008 6:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he is not unproven

he proved what he could do in the first half last year. then he hurt his hip and foot and pitched through it.

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 8, 2008 6:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Half a season is unproven

when I was seven I had a shoe box full of cards with good half seasons.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 8, 2008 6:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on guys

Mark Ellis will still be around.

All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout

by Hit4TheCycle on Jul 8, 2008 5:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

::sobs::
FOR NOW!!
::sobs::

by drmmerchk on Jul 8, 2008 5:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't even think it.

he’s coming back – he’s just gotta!

by NYC A's Fan on Jul 8, 2008 5:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even though I know that anyone on this team can be gone at any given moment for a handful of guys I’ve never heard of, it still stings when they actually leave.

by drmmerchk on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

I think your sentiment has the makings of a great blues song.

Nature's first green is gold...

by prana160 on Jul 8, 2008 6:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1 on the first bullet point

Sure on the surface they don’t seem like much now. But, like all trades, I’m willing to give them time. I think the Cubs got the better part of the deal now, but now is not when trades are ultimately decided anyway—so that’s moot in my opinion.

Right now, the A’s didn’t get much. I don’t mind Murton or Patterson or Gallagher—but I think the A’s should’ve gotten more. But we’ll see how much the A’s really got next year and 2010.

I want an A's-Rays ALCS.

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jul 8, 2008 5:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Understand the trade. Am over it. But I still wanted Vitters.

I think Sean Gallagher will be better than most people think. He had great numbers in the minors and he was very young for every level he played at. Murton is a solid bat with a bit of upside since he never got a fair shake in the majors and Patterson could be a nice utility player since he seems to have the speed of Rajai Davis, the versatility of Chone Figgins and a little bit of power and patience to boot. Certainly an improvement over Hannahan/Murphy at this point. Donaldson had nice numbers last season and in college and might just be in a funk this season.

All of that is fine and dandy and would a pretty good haul for Harden alone. But with Gaudin thrown in I thought that the A’s would for sure net Vitters. He would have been the perfect “headlinder” of this trade. He’s a righty, projectable power bat that plays 3rd base and his brother is already in the A’s organization! Would have been a perfect fit! But probably too perfect and it’s a decent return on formerly damaged good.

by Taj Adib on Jul 8, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The A's improved on the margins only

Not really what I think we were all hoping for from a Harden trade.

I can’t shake the feeling that part of the deal was Hendry doing a solid for Beane later on… maybe Vitters for some joker once he becomes tradeable. Please, God, let that be true.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what I thought about Loaiza

Of course, for all we know maybe the A’s were supposed to get something for Loaiza and then Beane threw Colletti a bone when he singlehandedly torpedoed the Dodgers playoff hopes.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, we weren't on the hook for his salary

Sorry ass Loaiza

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 8, 2008 6:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I pretty much agree with you completely. I don’t think the A’s will be much worse this year.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 8, 2008 5:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Patterson

Is it versatility if a guy is terrible at those positions? Patterson might be able to stand in the outfield with a glove, but he really can’t even play a corner spot competently. He’s about as much of a LF as Marco Scutaro was.

It looks to me like Patterson is going to be the stopgap between Ellis and Weeks. Or maybe he’s just a backup plan, he stays at Sacramento for the rest of this year and if Ellis is extended he’s moved in the offseason. I kinda hope that’s it, because I just don’t think he can play at the major league level.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

do you understand the trade?

because I just got over my initial, emotional, shock stage, and now I am trying to make sense of it.
was our Harden really at such a low value?
or perhaps these guys we’re getting better than what Im seeing on paper?

BB earned my trust a long time ago. Im taking the approach: there’s something Im not understand correctly, as opposed to: he’s an idiot.

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 5:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or power

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who, Vitters?

You can’t use his minor league numbers, the guy’s been hurt since he was drafted. It wasn’t a coincidence that he was the #3 overall pick.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, Patterson

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 8, 2008 5:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's no Cust, but he's not his hacktastic brother either.

For his minor league career, he’s walked in over 10% of his plate appearances and his career OBP, while buoyed up by high batting averages, is pretty solid (.366). And for a middle infielder, he DOES have a little bit of power. He’s averaged over 10 homers per season over his career.

Look, I’m not saying he’s a great pickup. I’m looking at what he does well and where he might fit in with the organization. He might just be a decent utility guy.

by Taj Adib on Jul 8, 2008 5:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Eric's AN nickname should be "he's not Corey!"

He’s a much better hitter than his brother. Nothing special unless he can really play second, but he has real pop and isn’t a hacker.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jul 8, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sounds like a Kinsler-Cano type

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 8, 2008 6:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Josh Vitters' nickname could have been "He's not Christian"

As an added bonus, he would have become my favorite player.

[I kid, I kid.]

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 6:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

geez

someone’s gonna love that one

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 8, 2008 6:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ehh, I think people

are being to harsh on “he’s not Corey”.

His OPS and OBP in the minors have been above league average for his entire minor league career, in every season, at every level, except for one 37 PA stint in AA in 2005. Granted, his homeparks have been hitter’s parks.

The issue really is his D. Can he play adequate, MLB average D at either 2nd or CF? If he can, then he can be a league average 2b / CF. If not, if he is forced to a corner, then, he’s bench filler.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 9, 2008 2:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Conspiracy Theory.

Maybe Selig wrote the A’s a huge check to give Harden over to the Cubs.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:06 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It can't be Rich

he’s been mentioned all the time…it was Gaudin who came as a surprise, and it must be Gaudin doing something behind our backs!!!

Procrastinators unite....tomorrow

by muffinpryde on Jul 8, 2008 5:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Bud Selig who used to own the Brewers?

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 8, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So it's final there's no PTBNL?

Which means no Vitters. I still want that LaPorta-type on this deal because the Sabathia deal is far better and we’re giving up more than Cleveland IMO. If we had replaced Donaldson with Vitters or added Rich Hill I’d feel much better about this trade. As it stands, I’m just gonna pretend the deal was a soon to be injured Harden and Dustin Majewski.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mark my words....

Gaudin will be the best player of this trade in three years. He will end up being Chi-towns 4th starter and we really got f*cked this time around .

This reminds me of the Tim Hudson trade. Beane doesn’t care about baseball anymore just socces because he is dumb for letting GAUDIN go into this as a throw in…

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

soccer

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will mark those words...;

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 8, 2008 5:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gaudin will be the second best player in the deal

The best player in the year will be Rich Harden.

by solotar on Jul 8, 2008 7:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've got to go make this trade happen on MLB 2K8

And feel like crap all over again.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   2 recs

Haha

I will do the same but Like it.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 8, 2008 5:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I already Made the trade, but to Huston

But got H.Pence and two prospect pitchers. Much better deal IMHO

The first rule of Oakland is - you do not talk about injuries. The second rule of Oakland is - you DO NOT talk about trainers." - Larry Davis

by norcalfan on Jul 8, 2008 7:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Street owns a team?

Hm, flexing his newfound entrepreneurial muscle, is he?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 8:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Im now on board with this trade.

I like it. Now I dont have to worry about Harden’s health anymore. I welcome Gallagher with open arms. Hello Matt Murton! Back to DH with you Cust. And bye bye Emil Brown.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 8, 2008 5:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You'll like Murton and Gallagher.

I think you’ll find that EPat is a lot of fun too.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 7:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who?

If we immediately DFA Brown and bring Murton up, it would be a good start.

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Jul 8, 2008 5:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dave Cameron is a depressed Mariners fan

I mean, compared to Soriano-for-Ramirez or the Bedard trade, this IS a good trade. The A’s didn’t actually actively screw their franchise, they just gave away some short-term talent.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So

that’s another point against it.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 8, 2008 5:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Newbies...

Baseball Prospectus says we got their 5th, 6th, and 8th best prospects.http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7055

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 8, 2008 5:22 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

seriously

Jeff Samardzija is in their top 11 according to BP.

Oh, and BA says only 5th and 7th and they have Samardzija as 8.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this is a joke...

The A’s are right in the race, both the wild card and the west, and with 6 more games against the AL west why trade them right now. Why not wait and see where we are at the break. Also, you give gaudan who is only 24 and a great guy out of the bullpen or in the rotation.

And wedidnt even get anyone worthwhile except for maybe gallagher. We got a single a catcher hitting .217, what’s the point of that?

Why dont we just try to get one potential all-star bat like the indians got in Laporta. All this trade does is help get the Rivercats back to the AAA world series.

by diehardoaklandfan22 on Jul 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you miss Gaudin blame Ziggy

Ziggy doing what he has and able to pitch multiple innings and made less of a need to keep gaudin.
Harden will be on the D.L. soon, the cubs know there is a good chance of this, so they demanded Gaudin be in the deal also.
It was a fair trade both ways because of the injury risk. Just because we didn’t rip off the other team this time, does not make it a horrible trade.

by Athletix Man on Jul 8, 2008 5:25 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why??

Didn;t we ask for Felix Pie???

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:25 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what I'm saying

This trade looks like the Hudson trade.

by What Would Rickey Do on Jul 8, 2008 5:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because he sucks

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 8, 2008 6:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Horrible Trade: A's Give Up

I can understand Gaudin for 3 stiffs, but why throw Harden in for free? In return for Harden and Gaudin could the A’s have really not gotten a reliable .275 hitter? You would think the Yankees would have killed for Gaudin alone, given the state of their middle relief. Couldn’t we have traded them for, I don’t know, Milton Bradley and Andre Ethier? This trade sucks.

by solotar on Jul 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doesn't murton count?

he has a career avreage of .294

by totoum on Jul 8, 2008 5:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

does that count here?

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jul 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Best Wishes to Rich

I will really miss the guy. Such a brilliant, brilliant talent. I’m glad I’ve got his last few starts still on my DVR, including that Philly game.

I understand why Billy did it, but it breaks my heart.

Good luck, Rich. Thanks for the amazing memories.

by SportySpice on Jul 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from LL

via Churchill: I emailed an A’s scout who was very involved in the Harden talks with STL and Chicago, and he said the Cards were willing to trade Rasmus in a deal for Harden, but wanted Ryan Sweeney coming back with Harden.

by JI on Jul 8, 2008 8:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
If Harden stays relatively healthy

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 8, 2008 5:27 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow, if that's true...

The A’s really love Sweeney.

I’m a little skeptical, though, since the Cards have a plenty impressive outfield as it is…

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 5:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh?

Ankiel is already reaching the point of athletic decline (although his numbers probably won’t peak for a bit because he’s so inexperienced). Ludwick is a flash in the pan—no way is he this good long term. Schumacher is not very good, period.

I totally understand why they would want Sweeney. I wouldn’t do Harden and Sweeney for just Rasmus, but I’d do it for the rumored Rasmus/Anderson/+1 package.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cards must've vetoed that

b/c I see BB going for that deal too, PT.

Fortunately, this is his age-28 year: his killing productivity is likely to decline. Impressive range, though. -Monkeyball

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 8, 2008 6:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

Refreshing my memory on Ludwick and Schumacher, their projections pre-2008 season sounded a lot like Sweeney’s, minus the ever-present hope that Sweeney will one day develop legitimate power. And this season, they’re kiiiiiiinda outhitting him. Obviously, you have to like the fact that Sweeney is 5-6 years younger than them.

I ain’t arguing that the A’s made the wrong choice if that offer was on the table, I’m just happy to see that they pretty clearly have faith in Sweeney for the future.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 7:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ludwick and Schumacher are like 30

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 8:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No way

That is the most ridiculous rumor, especially in this day and age where talent and youth are so valued. He is a borderline top 10 MLB prospect. Do you really think that the Cards wouldn’t push Ankiel over to corner and bench Ludwick or Duncan? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

colvin is no good

so i’m cool on that

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 8, 2008 6:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You've all gotta relax

After Harden fails the Cubs physical, we’ll have right back on our DL, just like old times.

by ozzman99 on Jul 8, 2008 5:30 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

yes but if he failed then no one else would want him

HELMET: Sandurz, what's going on?
SANDURZ: It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to
blow!

by SoCalA'sFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really

as an A’s fan, I would still want him. Shoot, he could be the next Kerry Wood at worst. That is damn valuable.

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 5:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

I’d rather let Rich rot on the shelf then trade him for this pile of rubbish

by petitceebee on Jul 8, 2008 5:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like most of you

I’m not a big fan of this trade, for many of the reasons others have stated. I don’t mind dealing Harden, but I don’t think Beane was in a position of having to take what he could get. It’s not like the McGwire deal. If Harden is healthy, waiting till closer to the deadline would only have driven his value up. On the other hand, the drop in velocity in his last start may have been a warning that trouble is coming. Still, I would rather have seen one above average hitter and one above average pitcher (a fair return, I think, for Harden and Gaudin). I think Murton can be good, but at his age, how long will we have him? Gallagher might be comparable to Gaudin, probably not much better. Paterson seems superfluous. Now that catcher (I forgot his name), I have high hopes for him, but he isn’t hitting much this year.

by ozzman99 on Jul 8, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

damn funny. and sadly, probably true

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cubs Fan's Take

Hey guys, I figure some of you are wondering about the particulars of this trade from the Cubs’ perspective. I’ve been following the Cubs’ minor league system for a number of years, done some statistical analysis on these guys, and attended my share of games. Here are some of my thoughts on the Cubs’ players…

Matt Murton – Solid, but unspectacular. He doesn’t hit for a whole lot of power, but he has a good eye at the plate and surprising speed and intelligence on the basepaths. You can expect a lot of IF singles out of him since one of his specialties appears to be hitting the ball in the exact wrong spot for fielders to get. He doesn’t have the arm for RF or the range for CF.

Eric Patterson – Good bat, bad defense. The Cubs have tried him at 2B and in the OF, although it looks like he’ll stick at 2B. His defense at 2B is not that good. It looks like he has mental errors more than anything else, since he had good range and a decent enough arm. As a hitter, he’ll be good. Think Todd Walker with a bit more power and a few more Ks. He can be a decent every day starter.

Sean Gallagher – He’s the guy I’ll miss the most. He really came along in the minor leagues and has always been underrated as a prospect. He started out 82-90, but has managed to get his FB up into the mid-90s when he reaches back. He mostly works 90-92. Very good curveball, surprisingly good slider, decent changeup. Great head on his shoulders. Intense and competitive. Potential #2 down the road if he gains consistency. His mechanics are really sound, too.

Josh Donaldson – Diamond in the rough. His numbers last year were really good in short season ball, but he’s had some really rough luck in Low A. His BABIP has been atrocious, although his LD% is down for some reason this year. He converted from 3B to C at Auburn and has made the transition very well. Watching him, his defense is surprisingly solid and he has a good arm, although I think he needs to work on his footwork and getting out of his crouch on throws. He has good power potential down the road, could be a 15-20 HR guy. I like his patience at the plate. He’ll stick at catcher, but it’s just a question of whether he’ll ever get his bat back on track.

If there’s anything specific you want to know about those guys, feel free to ask. I rather like this blog and lurk often.

by Outshined_One on Jul 8, 2008 5:34 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thank you for your analysis

HELMET: Sandurz, what's going on?
SANDURZ: It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to
blow!

by SoCalA'sFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re:

I think he could pull the switch off since he’s a good athlete and has the arm for it, but he’s looked good enough at catcher the times I’ve seen him that I think he can stick at C. Frankly, it’d do wonders for his value down the road.

by Outshined_One on Jul 8, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you

That’s helpful.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Jul 8, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the thing is...

if he failed the physical, then it would be a good trade for the A’s.

best case is that he passes the physical, THEN his arm falls off

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GOOD NEWS

BB has now established Embree’s trade value:

3 tic tacks and a 1/2 empty diet pepsi!

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:34 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

recycling value

After your finish the diet pepsi there is still a 5 cent recycling value isn’t there? So would it be embree and cash (5 cents) for 3 tic tacs and a half empty diet pepsi?

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Jul 8, 2008 5:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 CRVs and you're banned, right?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 8, 2008 6:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That Diet Pepsi is half-full, you pessimist.

by ozzman99 on Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Appropriate Analogy

On June 28, 1979 the Pirates received Bill Madlock, Lenny Randle and Dave Roberts from the Giants for Fred Breining, Al Holland and Ed Whitson.

At the time, Giants fans were furious at the trade they mocked as “Whitson for Randle and Roberts, with Madlock throw in.” The trade looked to be a complete disaster for the Giants. Only after the season was over, of course, with the Pirates as World Series Champions and the Giants sorely missing a third baseman who could hit, was it clear that the trade was, uh, Whitson for Randle and Roberts, with Madlock throw in.

This is Gaudin for Gallagher and Patterson … with Harden thrown in.

by solotar on Jul 8, 2008 5:36 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Next Year's OF

Clearly Sweeney and C-Gon are penciled in. Cust should be moved to DH (which eliminates the need to keep Rajai on the team). Presumably Murton gets the last spot? I thought Cunningham was going to get a shot.

by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 8, 2008 5:37 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you’re right. Murton will be the LF, and I think sooner than later.

by jefeboy on Jul 8, 2008 5:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would like to see Murton in LF immediately

With a swift DFA of Brown

HELMET: Sandurz, what's going on?
SANDURZ: It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to
blow!

by SoCalA'sFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess my point

was what happens with Cunningham? Not that I don’t like having 4 guys to fill 3 spots, when they are all young and unproven, but if we are blowing up this year’s team, didn’t seem like OF was really a concern for next year’s. Are we planning on parking AC in Sacto next year?

by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 8, 2008 5:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well AC is still only 22 and in AA

So i could see him spending a full season at AAA next year.

by totoum on Jul 8, 2008 5:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Travis Buck?

Is he suddenly a 1 year wonder????

by mrod on Jul 8, 2008 7:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yea, im wondering too

seems like he isnt coming up any time soon and would be nothing more than a backup next year….

by chipper1001 on Jul 8, 2008 8:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cust

i am so tired of him. all he does is strikeout and walk, with mostly strikeouts. he cant play the outfield and the a’s have plenty of 1B/DH types. he is the bigget rally killer in the majors.

by diehardoaklandfan22 on Jul 8, 2008 5:39 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What kind of a message does this send to the players we have left

The poor bastards have battled above .500 with so many injuries and now they see two of their teammates traded.

They are young for the most part so they could keep playing just as hard or they could say, “Fuck it, management just gave up so why don’t we”

Interesting to see what transpires

by Trainman on Jul 8, 2008 5:39 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it says:

we are building for your future.

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 5:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And it says to the players left

Thanks for wasting your time out there, go out and get drunk after each game.

by Trainman on Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

most of the players we now have are going to be around a long time.

im sure they can appreciate that the front office cares about their team’s future.
as we all should.

... are you being serious?

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 5:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not at all...

players have instntive to always play well. Theres always other teams watching.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 8, 2008 5:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They can say that.

The few fans left can be saying it too.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Jul 8, 2008 5:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If they say that

they should not be major league baseball players.

I’d cheerfully cut anyone from my team who had that attitude.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It also may spur the young players to say

“Why are they giving up when we are above .500, Lets show them we can still win”

That is what they should be saying actually.

by Trainman on Jul 8, 2008 5:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank God your not the manager!

this isn’t sending a message of unity, at least not right away. What it’s saying is….play up to your potential or above and we will dish your ass to a team in contention regardless of our situation. It may not be the case, but as a fragil ego driven professional athlete it doesn’t really lend itself to “be part of somthing special..” today. Maybe in a year or two, but not today.

The first rule of Oakland is - you do not talk about injuries. The second rule of Oakland is - you DO NOT talk about trainers." - Larry Davis

by norcalfan on Jul 8, 2008 8:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, cause the A's totally just traded Kurt Suzuki and Greg Smith

Wait, no. They traded Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin.

They’re trading guys with lots (by relative standards) of service time, not overachievers. Shit, Gaudin was underachieving this year (granted not helped by the playing time he got) and Harden was pretty much doing what Peter Gammons has been predicting he’d do for the last four seasons.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 8:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know we are not talking about Cy Young pitchers here,

but they were service time leaders, and Harden especially was one of our top players.

The first rule of Oakland is - you do not talk about injuries. The second rule of Oakland is - you DO NOT talk about trainers." - Larry Davis

by norcalfan on Jul 10, 2008 3:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this was the same kind of thing

that a lot of us said after the haren and swisher trades…the thing is, unless a team is actually gonna be bad (which the a’s will not) the attitudes will be just fine within the clubhouse and on the field. they are pro ball players and know how the a’s work. they can be surprised at the trade but i doubt anything will linger

by chipper1001 on Jul 8, 2008 8:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In Billy we trust but I don't know about this one

This seems one sided in favor of the Cubs. Harden is lights out when healthy, and a number one guy. Gaudin will be their # 4 starter. The A’s got very little.

This also means that Billy has thrown in the towel on this season. A sad day to be an A’s fan.

by hokecole on Jul 8, 2008 5:40 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It should be

In Billy, we have no choice but to trust for better or worse

by Trainman on Jul 8, 2008 5:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be fair

He’s treated us pretty goddamn well.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 8, 2008 7:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Blez

Congratulations for scoring the interview with Billy that you’re about to score; he will no doubt be mounting a PR offensive (defensive?) in the coming days to explain this trade as he did in the wake of Hudson/Mulder.

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Jul 8, 2008 5:42 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

off to the game (sigh)

wearing my Harden tshirt, continuing the mourning process… we better win, especially since I’ll be with M’s fans, and that might mollify me for a few minutes anyway.

by whiteshoes40 on Jul 8, 2008 5:44 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We'll do our best to win that for you.

Curious, how’s Harden pitched v. the Giants?

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 8:14 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"The A’s are good both at scouting and at player development"...

Good at scouting pitchers? Sure, assisted by some extra foul ball territory.

Good at scouting hitters? I’m still unclear where Billy Beane the talent evaluator hangs his hat. Daric Barton? Crosby? Chavez? Sweeney, etc? Charles Thomas-Denorfia-Sweeney-Kielty or whatever our outfielder’s name is? Are you kidding me?

I’m done rooting for a team that aspires to nothing more than replacement level talent.

I’m done familiarizing myself with every 4th OF in baseball on the chance he’s the next A target.

As if the 9 straight elimination game losses weren’t enough. And the trading away of our guys—understandable, but painful.

This is sheer lunacy, pure and simple. Somewhere, Matt Kemp and James Loney are wondering what they did wrong.

by WhereisGilHeredia on Jul 8, 2008 5:48 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1 +1

Seriously, Colleti and the Dodgers have seemed to be trying to trade Kemp for a year… why not help him? Kemp and a laser-eye repaired Chin-Lung Hu… and maybe James McDonald would be a tremendously better return than what the Cubs gave us. Shoot, maybe Joe Torre trusts a Keith Foulke or somebody for someone he doesn’t…

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
— Benjamin Franklin

by bjk15 on Jul 8, 2008 6:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha
I’m done rooting for a team that aspires to nothing more than replacement level talent.

Says WhereisGilHeredia.

Might as well Jump! - Van Halen

by sprtsnwyn on Jul 8, 2008 5:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't fret

you’ll be a fan again when they pull off the miracle wild card spot.

by coberloco on Jul 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in 2012??

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

your post makes me sad.

i’ll just hang around till the A’s get good again and you come back

by oakinboston on Jul 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

exactly

doesn’t deserve to be a fan.

by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 8, 2008 5:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hello, ElephantsinOakland

How’s tricks?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 8, 2008 6:03 PM PDT