Two (?) roster spots cleared
by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 30, 2008 6:46 PM PDT
54 comments
And here I was thinking we were about to bring up the whole AAA squad.
After Wednesday's disappointing loss to the Royals- completing the sweep, leaving the A's a depressing 2-10 since the All-Star break, dropping us below .500, and putting our team 13.5 games out of the division lead- the A's optioned BOTH Wes Bankston and Eric Patterson to Sacramento. This move seems to clear a roster spot for Big Frank, but even Mychael Urban's article that quotes Thomas as saying he is ready to return has Geren suggesting he may go on a rehab assignment.
So, what gives? The A's seem to be shopping anyone and everyone on the big-league team: Street (another poor outing tonight) and Duke (due to go on Friday in Boston) are clearly the odds on favorites to be traded, if anyone is going to go, though AN has also buzzed with the possibility of Embree, Crosby or Ellis being moved. Presumably these trades will bring back young, i.e. minor league, talent. So why are we CLEARING roster spots?
There are a few options.
The most boring would be Daric Barton is getting re-called, despite his 5 for 24 performance in his rehab assignment. Clearly the fact the guy went for a "rehab" assignment after banging his head on the bottom of a pool is an indication that he needed some at-bats in the minors, though it is not clear that hitting .208 for a week in AAA solved any (of his other) problems.
The more exciting options involve the A's making some moves.
SO, for 18 more hours, you are hereby invited to speculate (once again, for the last time) on who is filling out the A's roster on Friday. If we are limited to trades that bring us MORE major leaguers than we give up, that narrows the field considerably. My bet: Duke for a young hitter, with Gio getting the call-up. (I'll be in Boston on Friday and am hoping to see GG make his first ML start...)
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Ones for Frank
ones prob for Barton.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Yup
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Frank and Joey...
Righty Joey Devine (elbow) will make his second appearance for Sacramento on Thursday, and if it goes well - “best-case scenario” Geren said - the reliever might join the A’s in Boston. ...
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
Even if Devine will be activated
his roster spot will be in a corosponding move with a pitcher, not a hitter like the two other moves.
I concur though with the speculation that, if its not a trade, its going to be Thomas and Barton. But, they might also be waiting to make sure that another trade does or does not go through, such as a deal with Colorado involving a 3B (hint hint) that might result in the A’s not needing to activate Barton, but allows them to activate Barton if no deal is made.
facepalm.jpg
I think it's just more generally
“Why make any move before you have to?” You have to send the guys down for them to play in Sacramento, but you don’t have to call Barton up before a day off. Who knows who might, in their infinite wisdom, dive into a shallow pool tomorrow.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good point
But why not at least put Frank on the team, if it is in fact him and Barton getting the spots?
by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 30, 2008 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe he answered that
“Who knows who might, in their infinite wisdom, dive into a shallow pool tomorrow.”
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And
If you know you need at least 2 roster spots (Thomas & likely Devine/Barton) and you know who’s going down, do so before they get on a plane and travel across country instead of waiting until they’re settled into their hotel in Boston. A weekend series against Boston’s offense and our starters struggling to get through 5 innings, odds are you’re going to need an extra pitcher over the weekend.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
Or a move may be made with a pitcher.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years"
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2008 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
And you're saving a day of service time by optioning them now
And doing the same with Barton/Devine by not calling them back up right away (although this part may not be true. I’m not sure if rehab assignments count as major league service time since the player is never actually optioned).
they don't
If a player is rehabbing an injury suffered while on the major league roster, they still accrue service time. If the injury is suffered while a player is on the minor league roster, even if he’s already on the 40-man, service time is not burned.
This occasionally leads to sore feelings and/or grievances from players are sent down to the minor leagues while sore and then promptly break down once they are there (HalseyGate, Anibal Sanchez).
So, Barton is still accrueing(?) major league service on this rehab stint, despite the embarrassing nature of the injury.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers
by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting tactic...
maybe he knew he’d have a minor league stint soon, and injured himself?
Obviously(?) I’m joking.
That's what I figured
They do, however, save a couple days on Patterson and Bankston by sending them down and having 23 guys on the roster.
I titled that last post incorrectly
In response to your question, the title should’ve been, “they do”, as in Barton does accrue ML service time while rehabbing.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers
by notsellingjeans on Jul 31, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I just don't see why Beane would trade Street now
He’s killing his trade value right now even though his velocity seems to be back up, but why deal him now when his value might be at its lowest? I know no one has brought that up here, but it’s just on my mind.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 30, 2008 7:54 PM PDT reply actions
Actually
clearing two spots suggests we are not trading anyone, since most deals would free up roster spots, rather than require them. It is just slightly odd timing to make a one-sided move.
Not that this answers your question exactly. I’d love to see Street go, mostly because I’m tired of seeing him blow games. But we certainly would not be selling high. I’m starting to wonder if he is hurt, or if something else is wrong.
by Mark Borgschulte on Jul 30, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless, of course...
... Billy is trading a pitching prospect or 7 for a ML-ready player. Not that I’d find that thrilling.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
rosters spots shouldnt be an issue
you can also drop dinardo, conrad, etc easily
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 30, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I certainly wouldn't find it difficult
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Street must go
If we could get the clock back to the last game before the “all stars” and if Street could have saved the game, maybe, just maybe we could still be in contention, just a dream? no, I believe the players would not have given up! 4 games down is not as bad as 6 down!
just food for thought but then we needed a closer and we just did not have it!
maybe next year, just lets hope we beat the Reds 3 times and Toronto 4 times,ja
Blez' point is Street may fetch more in December than now,
so why deal him now? I still think there should be a market for him (that doesn’t mean there is), just given how many teams are within 3 games of first place in a 2-3 team race, and how many of them either lack a good closer or would be significantly improved by having a top set-up guy added to their pen.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Exactly
I’m just not sure that many GMs would pay up for Street now when they’re living in the recent history with him. Let the guy try and salvage some kind of value and move him during the offseason.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 30, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind seeing Street stick around
This recent streak of craptitude seems to be an aberration. Sign him to an extension, let him pitch for a while longer—maybe even another season or two—and when he reestablishes his value, he’ll be that much more enticing if he’s under control for multiple seasons. And thus get greater return.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
Given that he's under contract through 2010
an approach the A’s could take is to keep Street, develop Devine as a closer, and try to develop the kind of “killer pen” the Angels have with K-Rod, Shields, Arredondo. Like Dotel, Street is a serviceable closer who would be one of the league’s finest set-up men. And we lost that when we moved Duchscherer to the rotation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was just re-reading Baseball Prospectus from 2006...
... which is kind of sad, but it’s what I was doing—and it cautioned that Street’s peripherals suggested an ERA closer to 3 to 3.5, but that he was still a fine closer. I agree with this assertion. Keeping in mind that there are only a few truly elite closers in the entire league, one could do much worse. I feel many of us are letting recent events color our opinions of Street. Not so different than, say, that spate of hate that was unleashed on Kurt Suzuki earlier this season. The kids are alright.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
In another thread, I named 17 current closers/committees I'd rather have Street than
That was taking into account both Street’s subpar/unlucky 2008 and some better-than-normal performances from guys. I probably could’ve added a few more names to the list if I thought about it more (like I don’t think George Sherrill is a better closer, but I completely forgot about the Orioles).
trading duke
i think they would benefit to trade him sooner rather than later…remember gaudin and his great 1st half in 07…he fell apart soon after.
then rockies inquired on gaudin and beane’s price was too high…he ended up a deal throw in.
But look at their respective track records prior
Gaudin had been a “pretty good reliever” with so-so command, while Duke had been “one of the league’s finest set up men” with pinpoint command. Duchscherer is just a far better pitcher than Gaudin.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bankston gone Thank God
I was tired of seeing him swing at every high pitch. The scouts noticed it too just throw high fastballs and he swings. With Patterson going it should mean a infielder will be up. My bet its Pennington’s turn. He can’t do worse then anyone else we had.
I don't get Beane's strategy...
He dumps Harden and Blanton… maybe for some decent stuff. I kinda like Gallagher. But, he’s kept the pieces that should have been traded. Is there just no market for Street, Crosby, Ellis, Embree and Duke? Now, maybe he doesn’t want to trade Duke or Ellis or even Street… but, why not? Veteran presence on the 2009 team?
He screwed he pooch by not getting Quentin. Seems to me he could’ve gotten Bay. But, maybe Hermida is better than anyone we could’ve offered. I dunno… he seems so in love with pitching prospects that he’s unwilling to consider trading any of them for a hitter.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
Keep the players the fans want traded, trade the players the fans want to keep
Guaranteed to work every time. Assuming you (like Beane) don’t give a crap about public opinion.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I don't give a crap about public opinion...
I would like to see a winner on the field, which I’m sure is Beane’s goal, as well. But, apparently, my philosophy seems to diverge from his in that I actually think you need players on your team who can hit in order to win.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jul 30, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Is there just no market for Street, Crosby, Ellis, Embree and Duke?
Some, but not enough to hit Beane’s sweet spot
You have got to be fucking joking
Probably not much
No (the fact that he’s left-handed and is “an established veteran reliever” is what elevates it to “No” from “You have got to be fucking joking”)
Some, but not enough to hit Beane’s sweet spot
Worse than being dead is being hot. @('.')@
Beane's sweet spot may be set a little too high for Street and Duke...
as for the others… who cares? Dump them anyway. Let the young guys play.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jul 30, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't just dump Embree. He could net us a sandwich pick. Ditto Ellis.
I wouldn’t just dump Crosby either, if we had to pay his salary. We can always do that later.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years"
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess...
if you can’t get anything more promising back than what you’d expect in a sandwich pick… then, I guess you gotta keep them. But, that’s just sad.
Pay Crosby’s salary? For the 2 months remaining in the season? C’mon… that’s chickenfeed. Besides, by “dump him,” I don’t mean pay his salary. I mean trade him for something that might develop down the line… two or three A prospects. You never know what they’ll turn into.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jul 30, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The A's would be extremely lucky to get Kristian Bell and Graham Godfrey for Crosby
Best they can do is wait for the deadline, put him on waivers, hope like hell he gets claimed, and if not, hope like hell someone’s shortstop blows out an ACL in August.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
odd, isn't it?
as much as crosby missed expectations, he is better than Scutaro, right?
Is the salary the reason why you think Crosby is less tradeable than scutaro?
I mean, as a player goes, Crosby has been worse than Scutaro
Pretty consistently, too. I grant you that he’s still younger and has “tools”, so his perceived value might be higher, but the salary definitely weighs against that.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No
Not really close. Scutaro has a career OPS thats 6 points higher than Crosby. That’s worth about 1 run per year on offense. On defense, Crosby is erratic but has been a decent defensive shortstop. Scutaro has no range and no arm. Crosby is probably better by something like 15 runs/year.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
for some reason...
i doubt that’s all Billy will get for Crosby. He certainly won’t waive him. I think Billy still likes BoCro… I know, you and other ANer’s hate him. I’ve grown to dislike him, but he’s hardly the worst player we’ve had on the team this year.
And, we’d be 5 or 6 games closer to first place if we had a decent closer.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jul 31, 2008 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
5 or 6 games closer ...
how ya figure? He’s only blown 5 saves and the team ultimately won 2 of those … no closer is perfect, so I don’t see how you can honestly say we’d be more than 2 games closer with a better closer than Huston …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Assuming a theoretically perfect closer
who can go two innings of shutout ball every time, the A’s would definitely have won three games and had a chance at two others (the two in which he took the loss without blowing a save).
So an absolutely perfect closer would have the A’s at most 5 games further forward. Probably closer to 4 than 5.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So, your definition of a "decent" closer
is “one who never allows any runs, ever.”
That’s not asking much.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Embree isn't netting anything after this year
Because the A’s have a team option. Either they pick it up and a bad pitcher is on the team in 2009, or they decline it and he’s a free agent with no compensation coming to the A’s. And I don’t think Embree plays in 2010, so keeping him an extra season hoping for a pick is a bad idea.
2 things
1. I very much doubt Embree’s retiring after 2009—it’s not like he’s lost his fastball,
2. I’d wait and see if he qualifies for Type B this year. If he does (and there’s a chance because of the saves he amassed last year) the A’s can decline the option and offer arbitration. If he takes it, you’re probably better off than exercising the option, and if he doesn’t you get a pick.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Right now there is very little trade value in Crosby, Embree or even Ellis, but at least Ellis provides great defense.
Street has basically pitched himself into a bad situation so he won’t get much if anything right now. Beane has traded the others for our future. Look at CarGon and Rooney, they are only getting better and so is Zooks.. we have hitters down in A and AA right now and a couple could come up sometime next year.
I think if we don’t trade either Street or Duke now they could be worth much more in the offseason. You have to remember that Street as was with Blanton, has heard that he was on the trading block since last offseason, it is difficult to get you head in the game with that hanging over your head.
Thank God Beane knows more about players than we do, I have faith.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
the three i don't get are ellis, duke and embree
but ellis is #1: he can’t be traded later on, he’ll be gone and the a’s will only get a supplemental pick.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
It's strange. He has little trade value, but he'll probably get substantial interest as a free agent.
Not a good combination for the A’s
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years"
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Beane should have converted Ellis to a starting pitcher to increase his value
Worse than being dead is being hot. @('.')@
It's sad to realize that had the A's come out of the ASB
7-5 they would currently sit exactly 1 game out of the wild card – heading to Fenway with Duke trying to get the A’s even in the WC tomorrow, with Frank Thomas licking his chops anticipating his 8th career HR off of Wakefield. Sigh.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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