The Left Side: Time To Finish The Job
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
184 comments
For the current "rebuilding" to be a success in my book, the A's need to compete - not necessarily go to the post-season, mind you, but be "up and coming" contenders as they were in 1999 - in 2009. And I think they can still do it, because they have amassed enough trade chips to turn around and fill needs. Here's what I would recommend, with Eric Chavez likely your DH in 2009:
1. Keep Duchscherer, at least through his contract year (2009), if not longer, to anchor a young rotation. You don't need to trade Duke in order to make important upgrades and you do need Duke in order to compete right now.
2. I'd look at the Braves as a possible trading partner for a SS. Atlanta has a keeper in Yunel Escobar, and two excellent prospects in Brent Lillibridge and Brandon Hicks (both of whom have had their struggles this season, but both of whom are highly regarded by scouts and are turning 23 and 25, respectively), and having lost Tim Hudson (and soon Teixeira, I presume) Atlanta is especially in need of help rebuilding the pitching staff specifically and the team in general. Just a simple swap of either James Simmons or Vince Mazzaro for Brandon Hicks or Brent Lillibridge could help both organizations achieve their goals.
3. I'd look at the Cardinals as a possible trading partner for a 3Bman, specifically slugger Allan Craig, who at 24 should not be stuck behind Troy Glaus for another two years. St. Louis is in the thick of a pennant race and should be looking to win now. They have needs in the rotation (where injuries to Chris Carpenter, Mark Mulder, and Adam Wainwright have left them thin), as well as the bullpen, where Isringhausen's up-and-down season has left the Cardinals scuffling. Between Greg Smith/Dana Eveland, who could help them now and later, Huston Street, who could help them a lot now, and the A's wealth of minor league pitching talent, I would have to think there's a deal there that could land Craig in Oakland and help both organizations.
A 3Bman who can rake, a SS who might be able to hit, run, field, and throw - I can watch those guys grow up together and accept the growing pains knowing the future is bright. Whether it's exactly those guys or someone else, my point is, if you're rebuilding to show, in 2009, how good you will be in 2010, you need guys like this in the lineup, not filler like Hannahan and, sorry to say, Crosby.
The A's have the chips to make it happen without trading Duchscherer. Time to do what you do best, Billy: Get creative and get the real future on the field in Oakland now, so they can be kick-ass sooner rather than later.
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trade both duchscherer and ellis (also street, embree, e brown, etc.)
-trade duke if we’re not a playoff team until 2010.
-trade ellis if he would only bring us a compensation draft pick.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jul 29, 2008 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How can we tell if Ellis is only going to bring us one pick.
Isn’t he basically on the borderline? Also if he’s injured why would we offer arbitration?
Why can’t we trade Duchscherer and compete in 2009? Presumably we’d get players back.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your rotation of
Gallagher, Smith, Eveland, Braden, Gio doesn’t really match up with the likes of Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Garland.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garland is a free agent next year
and I don’t think the Angels will be re-signing him.
Then again, they may overpay for a different free agent, so who knows, really.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won't be that hard to upgrade -
I wish the other four were FAs.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lackey and Escobar are FA after 2009
I’m not remotely sold on Saunders as a good pitcher at this point. I think LA is going to have to overpay on the FA market to hold their rotation together in the next few years—and from our perspective, that’s all to the good.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - and you wonder if Beane has
factored these dates into his timing: “2007-09 is yours, LAA, 2010-2013 belongs to Oakland, er, Fremont.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want Duke to Col for Ian Stewart.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Duke would suck in Coors Field...
...not our problem, but still…
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 29, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
James Simmons is a keeper
Long term you have to like keeping Simmons before Duchscherer. So many reasons.
Thomas Walker
by Thomas Walker on Jul 29, 2008 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree wholeheartedly. Simmons has been awesome since they fixed his sleep disorder.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico, your trade scenarios are a lot more realistic
than Notsellingjean’s in the post below yours. The Rockies shouldn’t trade Ian Stewart and they probably won’t. I’d take Lillbridge for Duke though, and the Braves would actually do that
by SwishMyNish33 on Jul 29, 2008 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm....wouldn't the Braves rather have someone they can use more than one year?
Maybe Eveland? Smith?
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My "holy grail" would be Eveland for Lillibridge
because I think Eveland isn’t very good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy has already tipped his hand a little bit.
This system is built to mature in 2010 and ‘11. I think his moves this year have shown that his vision comes before anything else. If a move towards success in 2009 were a part of that vision, the echoes of that would be evident in our minor league sytem.
"There's only one Ken Griffey ." Jay Bruce
by tresselfan on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I still think that 2009, though, should be about
putting the team on the field that will mature together in 2010 and 2011. In other words, if you were to put, say, Craig and Lillibridge on the field in 2009, that team is probably not going to win 95 games – but those guys will be ready to thrive in 2010.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bif fan of Lillibridge
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I'd position it is,
the A’s scouts choose the SS and the Braves’ scouts choose the pitcher. Whom the A’s like is crucial (and same, from the Braves’ point of view, on a pitching prospect).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why not do that all the way?
Bring up Cahill, Anderson, Hrod, Gio, Carter/Doolittle winner, etc?
"There's only one Ken Griffey ." Jay Bruce
by tresselfan on Jul 29, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not ready, can't rush players
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many mlb teams would have given Gio a start by now?
"There's only one Ken Griffey ." Jay Bruce
by tresselfan on Jul 29, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many. The A's are smart; Gio's not ready
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All
Every team, and they would probably find somewhere to put a kid who throws 100.
"There's only one Ken Griffey ." Jay Bruce
by tresselfan on Jul 29, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Gio throw 100 mph? Or did you mean 100 pitches?
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was referring to H-Rod
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Jul 29, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confidence is Key,
and even one crappy half-season can derail it.
Remember, friends, most of the true prospects in our system have NEVER SERIOUSLY FAILED AT BASEBALL AT ANY LEVEL IN THEIR LIVES!
Being rushed up to the bigs and hitting .187 over a stretch or giving up a bunch of runs can be seriously crippling to the ego and/or psyche of one whom rarely, if ever, has slumped before. It’s best to let someone compete at a level in which they can succeed, and then build on what they learned to succeed at the next level.
Of course, some prospects are so talented that they can compete at the highest levels in their teens or early twenties. Felix Hernandez is fun to watch when he’s not pitching against the A’s. Dave Winfield wouldn’t have been served by a minor league apprenticeship; He stepped right off the Minnesota campus into a dookie-brown Padres uniform and hit hit hit for 23 years. Others, though, need to take their time, and there’s no point to rushing anyone through the system, especially in a non-contending year.
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 29, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the case of H-Rod, I think that ship has sailed
or perhaps sunk, depending on your metaphorical taste…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree
He needs to help his man Geren out and field him a decent team in 2009. Bob and the boys could use a pennant race that lasts past the all-star break to help them in later years.
I agree with you Nico. The team could be very good in 2009. Also, the team has a very low payroll going forward, I am sure they could pick up a couple of free-agents or resign a guy like Thomas to help out until the prospects are ready in 2010.
by Yellowhorse on Jul 29, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for trading for a shortstop, but...
...what do we do with Crosby?
by Slappyfrog on Jul 29, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the Cardinals might want him as part of a deal
They’re running Izturis out there right now.
What would be awesome (and eerily parallel to 2005) is if the A’s traded with Atlanta first, to get a SS, and then traded with St. Louis, including Crosby in the deal, to get Craig.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby for Craig! Wow that would be awesome. And I don't even like Craig all that much.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby for a bag of baseballs! Wow that would be awesome.
And I say that without even a hint of sarcasm in the above. I would be genuinely happy if someone claimed Crosby on waivers.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you think STL would take Street and Crosby
for Craig, though? I’m assuming that’s lopsided in Oakland’s favor.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, they'd take that
but because of Street, not Crosby.
I wouldn’t make that trade. Not even close. That’s way underselling Street’s value.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - so now the question is
“Street and Crosby for Craig and __” and the teams have to agree on how to fill in the blank. Crosby is a useful piece for them and a salary dump/trade enhancer for us the A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming the A's eat Crosby's salary, as they should,
I’d demand (Jon Jay and Jess Todd), or Bryan Anderson—no deal otherwise. [Parentheses used in the mathematical equation sense.]
It will probably be obvious from this that I am not especially high on Craig, who I basically see as Jeff Baisley with a bit better health record.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you keep duke
at 31 having a career yr and trade away mazzaro/simmons at 21 who could be ready by early 09.
trade away the overrated and likely stop gap sp eveland before those 2
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 29, 2008 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to trade Eveland, but doubt anyone wants to give what the A's need
in exchange. you have to give to get. The A’s can well afford to part with either Simmons or Mazzaro; but they cannot afford to continue with the group of SS/3Bmen that are in the current mix.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't classify Simmons with Mazzaro.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro is younger and is having a better season, while
Simmons is more “major league ready” and is a surer bet to have a decent major league career.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simmons has been better than Mazzaro since he fixed his sleep disorder
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait till Mazzaro gets his new mattress, though...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theres plenty of SS/3B players Id love to have.
LaRoche
Gamel
Stewart
Fields
Reid
Get it done Beane.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also Brignac and Wood
Who’s Reid?
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Who’s Reid?"
Reid Brignac
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah. Then we're on the same page.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the A's can land Brignac, though,
because the only team with better young starting pitching than Oakland is…Tampa Bay.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Brandon Hicks is a 22 year old in A ball hitting .230
Lillibridge is 24 in AAA putting up a line of .216/.278/.312. For comparison, Cliff Pennington is 24 in AAA and hitting .280/.407/.378.
And you want to trade a very possible top 100 prospect putting up tremendous numbers for one of them?
Craig is 24 and in AA at .302/.368/.498.
Jeff Bailey is 25 in AAA and before being injured was at .289/.375/.491
I totally agree we need to add some talent to the left side of the infield. But all you’re suggesting is that we pay a stern price to replicate players we already have and all pretty much consider to be AAAA fodder
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping Baisley can be the next Olmedo Saenz
I was also hoping that about Bankston, but he stopped playing 3B
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Idea of calling up Pennington to replace Crosby
is something Ive really wanted Beane to do. Pennington prob wont hit for alot but atleast he wont make as many outs as Crosby.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd really like to see the A's call up Meyer,
and put Braden in the bullpen, to see what both those guys can do in those roles. Meyer is out of options after this season and has nothing left to learn in AAA and he’s put up 3-4 terrific starts in a row. Either he can get major league hitters out or he can’t. The time to find out seems to be now.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still walks to many and hes having an "OK" year in AAA
I really have no clue what Beane will do with him.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His last few starts have been exceptional, though
Whether it translates to major league success, I don’t know.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree Meyer should be up over Braden,
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Why? Because we traded Tim Hudson for him?
Nothing suggests that Meyer is better than Braden. Braden has the track record of a potentially solid back of the rotation starter. Meyer is clearly a shell of his pre-injury self
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Why? Because we traded Tim Hudson for him?"
No because before Meyer got hurt he was a top 5 pitching prospect. He had a much better track record than Braden.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why, because Braden has no potential to be any better than a solid back of the rotation starter ...
and Meyer still might. BB does not have any difficulty finding solid back of the rotation starters. Also, timing. We can keep and continue to evaluate Braden in the minors next year, if necessary. Meyer is gone if he isn’t on the big league club.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would funny in an unfunny kind of way if
the Braves replaced Hudson by trading for Meyer, and he had a “Hudson-like” career for them.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Meyer is 27. 27
He’s in AAA for the what, 3rd time? And he’s only gotten worse. I had hopes for him that he’d be better in his 2nd full season back from the surgery. But he’s done. 100% finished.
How in the world can you possibly even guess than Meyer has more potential than Braden? Nothing could be further from the truth. This isn’t 2004 any more. Meyers injury absolutely destroyed his chances at becoming a useful major league arm
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did Braden's genetics
The guy doesn’t have major league starter stuff, IMO. I’d give Meyer a 10% chance of becoming a good major league starter from here on out; I’d give Braden a 7% chance.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Meyer does? Braden not only throws harder, but his changeup is by far a better secondary pitch that anything Meyer has to offer.
Braden k’s more, walks fewer, throws harder, has a better second pitch, is 3 years younger and his success in the minor leagues is current, not separated by a major shoulder injury
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meyer actually throws harder,
has better breaking stuff, better movement, and had better command. Most of all, where Meyer can come back to is an unknown – how good Braden’s stuff is…unfortunately, a known.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Are we assuming the A’s can afford a time machine?
Meyer HAD more velocity. Meyer HAD better secondary pitches. Meyer HAD better command.
And now, he’s finished. Braden has been the better pitcher since 2005. He’s going to be the better pitcher going forward.
Look at injury history. Look at age. Look at their time in AAA. Hell, look at their time in Oakland.
I can’t believe you would even think it’s debatable, let alone on the side of Meyer
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're entitled to your opinion
I don’t think Meyer is likely to be good; I just think Braden is less good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meyer may very well be finished ...
in fact, he probably is … but what possible downside is there to giving him a chance?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's sad is...
When Braden gave up that jack to Gordon last night, you could almost see the career drain from his face..
by GusanoQuemador on Jul 29, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup - the HR to Guillen
wasn’t really a horrible pitch, just good hitting by a strong dude. Letting a lefty HR off him by leaving a pitch right out over the plate belt high…Not good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: whats sad is
7 innings, 7 K’s, 2 walks from a 24 year old lefty with under 100 IP’s?
I’m not anything less than satisfied with his start
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
What possible downside is there in giving that chance to Braden, who is far more deserving?
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The loss of Meyer ...
haven’t we been through this? We either give Meyer a chance now or never. We can wait for Meyer to flame out this year or next to give Braden his chance because he is not out of options.
I expect Braden to be a reasonable back of the rotation starter or a good middle reliever. I don’t see any real chance of him being better than that.
I expect Meyer to be a AAA washout and since he doesn’t have much in the way of platoon splits, he doesn’t likely have much of a future as a reliever. I see a very small, but non-negligible chance of him regaining his mechanics and control and being a good #2-3 starter.
My desire to give Meyer a chance is far less about their relative talent levels and far more about their relative option levels.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go with all that
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're having poor seasons, they're not necessarily poor players
A year ago, everyone was saying “We can’t get Lillibridge, he’s too good, we’d have to give up too much…” It all depends on what the A’s scouts think. They know who they like and why. I can only throw out names based on scouting reports – what I can’t know is whom the A’s like. Whoever it is, the stats are secondary.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Hicks is a .257 hitter in the minor leagues while being consistently older than his competition. This season he’s striking out MORE than once per three at bats. This is at 22 in A ball.
Lillibridge wasn’t a top 100 prospect (though I assume he just missed) after last seasons .750 OPS between AA/AAA. His stock has fallen dramatically.
Neither are anywhere near worth Simmons or Mazzaro. Again, I don’t see why they should be valued more than Pennington, whom we all love to hate
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for all that he hasn't done much
Pennington was a higher draft pick than either of those guys. Somewhere along the line, someone saw something in him that caused the A’s to pop him (and not someone else) #21 overall.
Baisley’s a different story, but I think he’s fine as a stop-gap (i.e. he can be average) until Cardenas is ready or someone else becomes available through free agency. Or trade, for that matter.
I think the A’s should at least explore the possibility of bringing back Tejada this offseason, to play either short or third.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Me likey!!!!!!
Miggy brings an infectious enthusiasm – and his stats ain’t bad either. Plus I’ll just bet he’d have a resurgence if he returned to Oakland.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would Houston want in return you thinks?
Certainly Miggy would be a ++ in the locker room and a defensive improvement. He is what, 12 mil next year and then free? Do you think Houston would be willing to part with him for less than say a B prospect? I would love to see miggy back in G & G.
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
by norcalfan on Jul 29, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, civility!
We’re making progress.
As for what they’d want in return, unfortunately, I have no idea, because Ed Wade is insane. That can be insane-good (like, Soriano for Horacio Ramirez) or insane-bad (like, asking for Carlos Beltran for Matt Holliday). Thus “explore” the possibility—it may well be that the asking price is astronomical.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like civility...
...so kindly and politely, I say…
NO MIGGY!
I’d rather see Pennington get a chance.
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 29, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just had to rember we are all A's fans!
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
by norcalfan on Jul 31, 2008 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're putting way too much emphasis
on half a season’s PAs. And ignoring the context of where the numbers happened.
Pennington, career: 260 .361 .354 .715, in hitter’s leagues like the CAL, Texas, and PCL.
Lillibridge, career: 274 .355 .423 .778, in leagues that are more pitcher friendly like the Int and Southern.
In Lilibridge’s career, the only season in which his OPS was below the league average, is his current season.
In Pennington’s career, the only season in which he’s produced an OPS above the league average OPS was in 2006, when he was a 22 year old in rookie ball. Even this season, that 280/.407/.378 produces an OPS total that is still below the league average in the PCL. League average OPS in the PCL this season is 800. Yes, the average hitter has an 800 OPS in the PCL. The Rivercats as a team have an average OPS of 791, which Pennington is also below.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 29, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given our major league and minor league SS options,
I’d say Mazzaro for Lillibridge would be a good deal for Oakland. I also think it might be a good deal for Atlanta.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you Freakin Kiddin me
Craig has hit 18 homers and 25 doubles. He’s seems like he projects around .300-30. There is not even a comparison
by HarbirD on Jul 29, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
between what and what?
I’m not following.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade hrod before simmons/mazzaro
anyone else agree??
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 29, 2008 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That's fine - I don't have a problem with that
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes-- see my top 30 of a few weeks ago
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. He has the most upside of any pitcher in the system
If the average pitcher has a 1 in 5 million chance to be Randy Johnson or Sandy Koufax, then Rodriguez has a 1in 100,000 chance. I’m sick of having no players with upside, especially since Harden’s gone.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Simmons is a lot better than Mazzaro.
So I’d keep Rodriguez and Simmons and trade Mazzaro in a deal for a SS/3B that the scouts liked. I don’t think Rodriguez would fetch as much as Simmons or Mazzaro anyway.
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what I'd like to see -
Mazzaro for one SS/3B solution, other non-Cahill/Anderson chips (be it more like Street or H-Rod/Leon) for the other.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way on Leon
So young and already so good. I could see he and Inoa frontlining a rotation in 4-5 years.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 29, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, we can't make everyone who looks good untouchable
I’d keep Inoa, Cahill and Anderson first and foremost, personally. After that, everything has to be negotiable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But but but
How awesome would it be to have a rotation of Cahill, Anderson, Gio, Inoa, and Leon some day. Not saying that it will/should happen, just want to dream for a sec.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 31, 2008 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't trade any of the young pitchers right now
they could all be useful for 2010-2015. there are plenty of players (duke, ellis, embree, street, crosby) who will not be, and should be traded instead of simmons, mazzaro and hrod.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jul 29, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and their trade value
will be inflated later by the coliseum.
by ohmangoAs on Jul 29, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might have the chips to do it without Duchscherer
but do they want to? What if Beane just doesn’t have faith in Duke to keep his value and performance up? I mean, look at how long it took the A’s to even consider him in the starting rotation.
Now that Duke is entering his 30+ years and reaching a new level of workload, all while coming off chronic injury issues, is it hard to believe that Beane might prefer trading him than one of the younger, promising pitchers?
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So we're not going to sign Tim Huson long term
But we should sign a 30 yr old first year starter long term? I don’t think so.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Jul 29, 2008 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from sentimental reasons ...
I cannot fathom any reason for not trading Duke (unless there’s no market for him, which I doubt) ...
He’s not young, he won’t be cheap for very long, he’s clearly performing over his head, he is a good candidate for injury next year, both because of his history of health problems and because of his vastly increased work load … this is just someone who screams, “SELL HIGH!!!!!”
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 1:20 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
The problem might be that other GMs know this too.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, if there's no market for him, that's one thing ...
I’m assuming there is a market for him—which may be a bad assumption, but we have to work with something …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though..... Sell Crosby Ellis Street Duke Embree!
Whats the worst that can happen? We end up with a SS 2B combo that hits a combined .235? Heck, at least were not paying them millions. As for Duke Embree Street. We can get SOMETHING for Duke and Street, throw Embree in a cut payroll!
Something I would really love for someone to check out…
What is our payroll look like this year? We under 40 million? The good news is with this payroll we actually might be free agent buyers for a long term player who produces this off season! I would love to find out our payroll for 08’ 09’
Your 2008 East Bay Athletic Rivercats of the greater Fremont Area!
by asfan777 on Jul 29, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The payroll for next year is trivially small
Currently it’s in the $40 million neighborhood, and that’s assuming they exercise the option on Alan Embree.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if we get rid of Street or Embree or Duke or combo...
We could be looking at mid to low 30 millions? I wonder how much the A’s get anually in profit sharing from MLB?
Your 2008 East Bay Athletic Rivercats of the greater Fremont Area!
by asfan777 on Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way, way more than that
There’s basically no reason why any MLB team cannot sustain a payroll of at least $60 million a year at this point. It is virtually impossible not to turn a profit at that kind of payroll level.
The A’s have a lot of money to spend. If they choose not to, it reflects badly on their ownership, not on their financial situation.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're spending an awful lot on the draft and on international free agents
It doesn’t appear that the money is being pocketed, Marlins style.
by mikev on Jul 29, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cut payroll by $40m ...
spend an extra $10m on the draft/free agents …
Net neutral?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what I said.
The truth is nobody knows the actual amount Beane was “allowed” to work with for the season.
Everybody seems to assume that the previous year’s payroll is where the current year’s payroll can and/or should be at. Who knows where the actual number is?
The point was, money IS being spent, and it’s being spent in places that the team was previously – and very widely known to be – very, very frugal.
by mikev on Jul 29, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying they're cheaping it
Not yet, at any rate. I’m saying that if they continue to spend money at the rate they currently are for multiple additional seasons into the future, THAT would be cheaping it.
I’d be entirely on board with scrimping on payroll for this season to finance a free agent acquisition in the offseason. There’s no well-defined pattern at this point.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it is
I won’t call it Marlins-style until it’s a multi-year pattern, but there can really be no doubt that in 2008 alone Wolffish will “profit” (revenues minus expenses) more richly than they ever have before. And that’s saying something, given that they’re already one of the profitingest teams out there. But since there’s no evidence that all or even much of this year’s payroll savings are being banked for future on-filed spending, and plenty of evidence to the contrary, they’re clearly enjoying a Loria moment, if not more.
They want to steal the land papers which is why they have tried to break in. But they had to give up after being bitten by Chhotu.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 29, 2008 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I'm looking at...
Let’s say we make two “bad trades,” i.e., give up more than we would probably really have to, and swap Mazzaro for Lillibridge and Street/Crosby for Allen Craig. Here’s the team you have going forward and growing up together in 2009, with years of contract control in parenthesis:
R. Sweeney – RF (5)
Suzuki – C (5)
Gonzalez – CF (5)
Chavez/Cust/Other – DH (3)
Cunningham – LF (6)
Ellis – 2B (3)
Barton – 1B (5)
Craig – 3B (6)
Lillibridge – SS (6)
Super-utility dude: Patterson (6)
Starters: Duchscherer (1), Gallagher (4), Smith (5), Eveland (5), Gio (6), followed by Simmons, Cahill, Anderson, and later DLS, Leon, Inoa.
Relievers: Devine, Ziegler, Blevins, Casilla, Braden, Demel, H-Rod.
And all this with such an insanely low payroll that you can actually afford to overpay a FA like Orlando Hudson, or Pat Burrell, if you want. To me, that team could compete in 2009 and kick-ass soon.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 (as stated above we will have room to invest in future FA market)
Your 2008 East Bay Athletic Rivercats of the greater Fremont Area!
by asfan777 on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think everyone here would like to get a legit 3B and SS prospect
but the difference is that some are willing to trade away Street and Duke to land those and I wouldn’t have a problem with that either.
I find it hard to believe that Duke is the one difference maker that makes this team a contender in 2009, which it seems to me you are implying.
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Nico, you need to answer why our rotation cannot matchup w/ the Angels in 2009 w/o duke, but will “Kick-ass” in 2009 w/ him.
You’ve asserted this in like 25 places today, and never explain why.
by ohmangoAs on Jul 29, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It won't "kick-ass" with him.
A 2009 rotation of Duke, Gallagher, Smith, Eveland, and Gio could be pretty good. Subtract the front end of that, slide everyone up a slot, and force Braden or DiNardo to start every 5th day, and forget it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Duke is the one difference maker that makes this team a contender in 2009?
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No - and if you're just going to read what you want to read,
instead of what I say, I’m not going to go over it again and again. Just scroll up and re-read what I actually say.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am reading what you're saying. Please tell me where I'm misinterpreting it
You’re saying that in order for the A’s to be doing a successful and fast rebuild, they need young, promising guys in the positions we currently have dead weight in.
In order to get those prospects at SS and 3B, you suggest we trade Street and a pitching prospect and specify that Duke should not be traded because we can forget about the rotation if he’s not in there.
You say that following a plan like one in the example you gave will allow the A’s to be contenders next season, especially if they can use the extra payroll to get a big time bat.
You also say that if they trade Duke, this is not a possibility.
Where am I mistaken?
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where you are mistaken is that Duke is not "so great"
that he’s a “difference maker” in the way Johan Santana might be regarded. It’s in the context of whom the A’s have. At the end of last season, Oakland had multiple starters who could be ”#1 or #2” in a rotation – Haren, Harden, even arguably Blanton. Now they have only one and that’s Duchscherer.
If they ask Gallagher to pitch as a #1 and Smith as a #2, there is no way they can compete. The effect of losing the top pitcher in your rotation is to have every other pitcher step up one slot and have your #6 starter fill the hole. The Angels could do it because they have multiple “front-endish starters and not a huge dropoff as they go from #4 to #6.
But on a staff where the #2 starter (Gallagher) is already pushing it to slot in at #2, Duke becomes a huge factor in whether or not your rotation is very good front to back.
Another way to put it is that the A’s, in the last 12 months, have dealt Haren, Harden, and Blanton – the jenga structure of competitiveness cannot take another blow.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the "jenga structure of competitiveness cannot take another blow"
how is that any different than saying Duke cannot be traded if the A’s expect to contend in 2009?
That is exactly what you’re saying and that’s a statement I completely disagree with.
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then disagree,
and tell me how you think a team with a rotation of Gallagher, Smith, Eveland, Braden, and Gio Gonzalez will contend – what lineup do you hope to see the A’s running out there and how do you expect them to get there? Cuz it had better score a lot of runs and make all the plays in the field. And you had better have a heck of a deep bullpen, too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can make those same trades you suggested
if those are the players you really want at SS and 3B. Trade Street and Crosby for one prospect, swap Duke instead of Simmons or Mazzaro for the other prospect + change.
Same lineup you suggest, same bullpen you suggest. With the ridiculous amount of available payroll, sign a FA SP if you must.
Sheets, Sabathia, Burnett, Garland, Dempster, and some others will all be free agents. I’m not saying the A’s can or should go after Sheets/Sabathia, but I I wouldn’t mind them giving a 4 year deal to Garland, who I like more than Duke.
Mostly, I just don’t consider Duke the ace you deem him to be and I don’t think that trading him jeopardizes the team the way you think it will.
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, you're more than entitled to your opinion
You “like Garland is better than Duke,” I like Duke a lot better than Garland. And 900,000 Chinamen don’t care, as they say.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, lol
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garland sucks
I would easily take “Duke injured half the season” over Garland. He’s a poor man’s Blanton/4th starter at best going forward.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jul 29, 2008 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - I'd be thrilled if the Angels resigned him
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't have thought that was at all in the cards until recently
but they really don’t have a replacement in their system unless it’s Escobar, which seems pretty dicey, so I think they’ll have to signsomeone , and maybe it’ll be him.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jul 29, 2008 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to be a jackass ...
but in the regular season, the concept of the quality of your #1 vs your #2 and so on mattering is complete and utter BS. (In the playoffs, when the rotations are again generally stacked in a predictable manner and only 3-4 of your starters get to play it matters) If the normal rotation stays matched up through the first two weeks of the seasons, it’s practically a miracle. A good rotation is a good rotation, regardless of how much talent is concentrated at the top.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
What makes Lillibridge better than Pennington? What makes Craig better than Baisley?
Lillibridge should be had for Outman at the most. Maybe someone like Jeff Gray or Dan Meyer.
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What makes Lillibridge better than Pennington?
CONTEXT. Firstly, compare their minor league numbers to the league average in the leagues they played in. League like the PCL, Texas, and CAL are hitter friendly.
Secondly, half a season’s PAs do not trump several year’s PAs, not unless you know something about Lilllibridge that strongly suggests that he has miraculously lost his skills overnight, to the point that he is now a 590 OPS hitter in the INT. Was he using a metal bat in the past, and is he no longer using a metal bat now? Has a sustained an injury that he might never recover from, ala Eric Chavez?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 29, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
I completely understand what you’re saying, and I even agree in part.
Where I differ, is that I weigh far more heavily what he’s done this year vs in the past, and I’m not willing to trade a good prospect banking on him getting back to his not-so-great norm.
by blee1134 on Jul 29, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you sold on Lillibridge, Hicks and Craig?
Would they really be any better than Hannahan or Petit?
When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not - they're just well-rated prospects
on teams that need what we have. If not them, then others. What matters is whom the A’s scouts like; personally I’ve never seen any of them play.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That team hits worse than this year's team
And lacks Harden, who helped bolster this year’s strong first half. Why is it a contender??
Cunningham, the slated left fielder, has yet to play a day of AAA. Barton is arguably the worst hitting starting 1b in the big leagues. Craig and Lillibridge in ‘09 would be, amazingly, offensive downgrades on what we’ve received from those two positions thus far this season.
Simmons, Cahill, Anderson have yet to pitch a day of AAA. They won’t be projected to pitch innings on next year’s team. If it happens, great, because it’ll mean they dominated AA, but the FO won’t project them to be in the show at all next year. That would either be bad planning or Mets-style prospect rushing, and the A’s don’t do either.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers
by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2008 3:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a pretty mediocre team ...
the only players who I’d expect to be better than average, relative to position, are CarGon and Ellis … the rotation is deep, but probably very average, overall … the bullpen could be pretty sick … but, overall, this is a team that would be competing in the NL West, but not with the Angels …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 30, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off-Season
There’s this weird idea going around that mid-season trades net more than off-season trades. If Beane had trusted Harden to be healthy all year, he could’ve gotten a lot more in the off-season, so he took his chances. Blanton would’ve stayed if the Phillies hadn’t come up with a decent package for him.
The value of decent prospects has skyrocketed in tandem with veterans’ salaries, and the tales of top-prospects-for-hired-gun-midseason-salary dumps-that-backfired have grown.
I think Beane can get a better deal for Duke (if he wants one; Beane usually likes at least one veteran to anchor a rotation) in the off-season, even if Duke’s second half statistics don’t quite come up to his first. At least then he’ll have a full year under his belt and his durability will be less of an issue.
I say do nothing. When Thomas, Sweeney, Chavez or some combo return next week and the week after, the A’s will be more competitive for this year, prospects will continue to mature in the minors, and the team will be able to make wiser, and more timely, choices for trades during the winter.
by richwol1 on Jul 29, 2008 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the second time today that I have entirely agreed with you
Perhaps AN is having a good influence? ;-)
I wouldn’t exactly say to do nothing, but I would be entirely OK if none of the A’s real chips—Street, Duke, Ellis—were moved in the next few days. I would like to see the roster pruned of some of the dead weight (Crosby, Emil, Foulke) but I suppose that could happen even after the deadline.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
with one caveat- There’s limited supply of SP right now, but there might be many more in the offseason. Instead of trading for Duke, I could see some GM’s being more interested in paying for Jon Garland. I’m not sure people take Duke seriously. It’s a funny thing, since I think some of us WAY overrate duke, but at the same time, he’s probably underrated by the league. Now, when the best alternative is Washburn, we might get good value for Duke.
by ohmangoAs on Jul 29, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is exactly why I think Duke needs to be moved right now
I think it’s rather silly to think that he’s the one piece that needs to stay in order to make 2009 a competitive year.
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to really substantiate this with ...
but I feel like the value for mediocrity is highest in season, while the value for high level talent—or at least the flexibility to actually get something done is highest in the winter …
Discuss.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so ... trade Duke and Ellis now, trade Street later?
(And, no, I’m not saying Duke & Ellis are mediocre perf-wise, but that their perceived value is mediocre.)
Worse than being dead is being hot. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jul 29, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Ellis has no trade value ...
presumably, he has little value in free agency, in which case we should go ahead and resign him …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ellis' current slump
is pricing himself right into the A’s lineup for the next 3 years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good timing ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, otherwise, pretty much, yeah ...
though I think relievers are generally at a premium in season—teams seem to willing to cross their fingers a bit and hope they get lucky and the ‘pen comes together in the off-season …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think a lot of contending teams around this time are just looking for general “types” of players, not exact names. You hear, “The phillies are looking for a left-handed reliever” or “the mets are looking for a right-handed corner outfielder” or “The Mariners are looking for a left-handed, one-legged, half-Japanese/half-Mexican catcher”. Since the availability of these types of players is limited in-season, many teams usually just settle for the best they can get with what they’re willing to offer before the given deadline. Usually, that’s mediocrity.
In the off-season, teams are not as picky and smart GM’s (like Beane) target specific “players” and then look to acquire them in the off-season when negotiations can be more substantive and the parties involved can be more creative and open-minded. At least, that’s my take.
by Taj Adib on Jul 29, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Worse than being dead is being hot. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jul 29, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby Will Be Re-signed
His injuries have denied his progression to where you would expect him to be for as many years as he has been here. I predict that Beane will sign him to a favorable contract to allow him to play a larger role especially with the “consistency” he has shown this year.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
by Gerard on Jul 29, 2008 2:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The only "consistency" I've seen from Crosby
is that his defense has gotten consistently poorer – and now his bat is following suit nicely.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've got to be kidding me
Crosby is so bad right now, I think he’d be non-tendered if he wasn’t already under contract.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bite your tongue, man.
Right at my bedtime, too. Now I’ll have nightmares.
by Faust on Jul 29, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kotchman and Stephen Marek
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just heard that too.
Seems like a straight up deal. Not sure if it makes sense yet.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Jul 29, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why the hell not?
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jul 29, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kotchman we know, Stephen Marek’s stats:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Stephen-Marek.shtml
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jul 29, 2008 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thx man, just wondering what kind of pitcher they gave up
by HRH on Jul 29, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That deal sounds awesome for the A's -
The Angels take a shot at the World Series in 2008, in exchange for losing Kotchman over the long haul. Unless they re-sign Teixeira, this is the ultimate “short term gain, long term loss” that works perfectly for the A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet
Angels upgrade minimally for this season, downgrade for the next 4 unless they pay out a bazillion dollars. Kendry Morales is no Kotchman.
Meanwhile, Kotchman, who is about the only Angel I like as a player, goes to a team where I actually don’t mind rooting for him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How can you not like Vlad?
Aside from being an Angel, that is.
by mikev on Jul 29, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find his brainless hitting style infuriating
I don’t like people who just coast on raw talent in any sport, and Vlad is basically the poster boy for that clan.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 29, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you also then dislike Landon Powell,
Jeremy Brown, Cupcakes? Fat guys who are too lazy to get in shape, and who are “coasting” on raw talent?
How the fuk do you know that Vlad is “coasting”, and Jack Cust is not? How the fuk do you know how hard Vlad works? Do you observe him training / practicing? Have you spoken to him before? Or are there any articles that indicate that Vlad slacks off, and doesn’t work on his game?
Why is Vlad’s hitting style “brainless”? How the hell do you know that he has not consciously, thoughtfully, decided that his hitting style suits his skillset, just as Jack Cust’s hitting style suits Cust’s skillset.
WTF is not taking walks “brainless”, and “coasting”? Simply because you prefer a particular style of play more?
Surely then you have no problem with “old school” fans and writers who accuse Cust of being too lazy to work on cutting down on his strikeouts.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 29, 2008 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rooted hard for him
when he wore the Quebecois colors.
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 29, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Against trading for Lillibridge and Hicks
Comes dangerously close to breaking one of the three most important rules
1. Never start a land war in Asia.
2. Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
3. Never trade pitchers with the Atlanta Braves.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jul 29, 2008 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....................
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Jul 29, 2008 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's okay as long as you don't acquire pitchers from the Braves ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jul 29, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Current A's Versus the Contending 2009 A's?
I’d love to see the A’s compete next year, but since they are pretty much the worst team in the American League right now they are unquestionably the dullest and far more likely to catch the Mariners in last than the Angels in first, it’s hard to see how they might be competitive as soon as next April. Most noticeably, the club doesn’t seem to have lined up a single infielder who they can be confident will hit .240, much less four of them. Of course the same could be said about the DH position. On the hill, after Duke they don’t have a single starter who gives you a reliable quality start (though I do like Smith, Eveland is Zito in disguise). Even adding and subtracting a bit from my somewhat pessimistic take, don’t the A’s have to draw to an inside straight again and again? It’s nice to count on the talent in the minor leagues, but the Angles just quit on a guy the A’s would love to have in their lineup, further evidence that even the best prospects can disappoint – as if Buck and Barton followers didn’t know that. As for the competition, just how weak are the Angels going to be next year? Finally, have to say it, and knowing ANers hate to be reminded, but an A’s club that had Rich Harden and Milton Bradley instead of Sean Gallagher and Andrew Brown? Now that would be a much better club in 2009.
by solotar on Jul 29, 2008 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you available for parties?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with nico that we need duke in the rotation next season..
but if we can package him and someone else (crosby?) in a Haren like deal that nets us a bunch of position player prospects in the offseason we should. Haren only had one great year, and a below average second half and look at what we got for him. I dont see Duke having nearly as good a second half numbers as he did in the first.
If we can get our SS/3B players of the future before next season, and sign a decent enough FA pitcher to replace Duke, we’ll have the hitters we want so that they can progress by playing next season and the pitching, albeit not that great – FA signing, gallagher, smith, eveland, and gio – will be able to get through the year before we bring up our top prospects – anderson, cahill and simmons – to give us an awesome rotation. So by 2011 we’ll have our line-up set with a couple years of exprience, and our pitching will be extremely talented – gallagher, gio, smith, cahill, and anderson – we definitely will be talented enough to compete for the division and the penant.
Plus, add a big FA bat, or a bat through a trade with simmons (or smith if you like simmons better) and mazzaro because the rotation will be plenty stacked already. I could see us in the world series in 2012.
by diehardoaklandfan22 on Jul 29, 2008 7:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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