Athletics Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Got Chart if You Want It: Iron Bowl Comparisons

Team Building - What are the A's looking for?

Anyone following the Athletics knows that the A's tend to move in cycles. While Pitching will always be there, the key is what they do on the position side of things.

Early in Beane's tenure, the A's went the route of OPS. They grabbed every player they could to go with their homergown talent that could get on base and hit for power. And they had success. Despite the generally lousy defense, the A's won a lot of games, scored a lot of runs, and had excellent pitching, at least in the #1, #2 and #3 slots.

And then the league caught up. The players that the A's had grabbed before became scarce, and they could no longer find them. So they changed their tune. They started to go Defense. Defense while grabbing the occasional OBP guy, but this time, with out power. And they turned into the best defensive team in the league, but at the same time, the least powerful. The offense, with out that power, died. The lack of power made the OBP unsustainable-after all, if you don't have any power, why not throw in the strike zone if the best you can get is a single? But the A's still held onto the offensive philosophy of batting average not mattering so long as the OBP was high. But with the power gone, and the OBP no longer able to support itself , the batting averages plummeted and dragged the OBP down.

The A's became a team of relatively slow or average runners, with low batting averages, decent on base skills, and no power, resulting in an astounding amount of ground-into-double-plays, and now, unable to make any contact, Strikeouts. The team has lived on its pitching and its defense to help prop up that pitching.

But that philosophy is changing, and it is evident in the type of players the A's have been acquiring, perhaps starting with the 2005 draft that saw the A's draft Cliff Pennington and Travis Buck, and with Mark Mulder trade acquiring Daric Barton. Or, perhaps, the A's were still deluding themselves, at least with Buck and Barton, that 'Power will come naturally, just like Jason Giambi', and not realizing that the unnatural power for Giambi would no longer arrive from now on.

The A's started to gather, for lack of a better term, lead off hitters. High Average, High On Base players with excellent speed, and the hope of future power. They acquired Daric Barton (.301/.414/.458 career minor league line), Travis Buck (.318/.395/.486) and Cliff Pennington (.368/.453/.561 with 29 SB in College).

Fast Forward to the A's recent acquisitions, and I think we can continue to see the pattern the A's are going for.

Ryan Sweeney is batting .307 with 8/9 Stolen Bases.
Carlos Gonzalez came to the A's with a minor league career .287 batting average and pretty good speed.
Aaron Cunningham came with another .300+ average and a good amount of stolen bases.

And just in the last few trades and the draft, the A's have gone after Eric Patterson (.329 average in AAA, 15/15 SB), Jamile Weeks, another high average, high obp base stealer out of the draft, and Ardian Cardenas, .301/.364/.429, 12/12 in SB, and Rashun Dixon, who rharden40 has told us, has blazing speed, so fast that he finds it hard to hit Doubles, and instead settles for 7 triples to 1 double.

That is what I think the A's are targeting right now. Versatile players who can play multiple positions with on base skills and speed to compensate for the lack of power. With Chris Carter and Sean Doolittle coming up at 1B and DH, unless the Carter return to 3B experiment succeeds (which I hope does) providing the power, I think we can expect the future A's to be somewhat similar to the team we have now, but with a lot higher average. A team full of Ryan Sweeney's, if you will. Which makes you wonder if the A's did indeed insist on Sweeney more than we thought at the time, instead of just being the throw in for the deal.

So why is this important to know right now? Well, with the Trading Deadline a week away, and the A's five remaining trading chips all generating some degree of interest (Duchscherer, Street, Crosby, Ellis, Embree), I think keeping in mind the type of player the A's seem to be going after is important.

Top Pitching prospects, as always, and a new kind of hitter.

It still remains to be seen if a lineup full of this type of hitter will succeed for a Major League lineup. Because personally, the lack of power still disturbs me.

3 recs  |  Comment 97 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I hear ya

Nine Ryan Sweeneys would be an awesome lineup though. Terrific defensively, too. Combined with our projected pitching, we could win a future division title even without a 30-homer guy.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

and 4 left handed infielders

I had a left handed shortstop once in little league and he was actually not bad.

by rightbackin on Jul 25, 2008 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't been fucked like that since grade school

You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.

by Swooney's Left Foot on Jul 25, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

is this a non-sequitur?

or a cry for help?

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 25, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club

You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.

by Swooney's Left Foot on Jul 25, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Who are you talking to?"

“Shut up.”

\Door slams/

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know the story behind that line?

It was a replacement line. The original line was “I want to have your abortion,” but the executive producers thought it was too extreme. So….HBC improvised that one, which I feel is significantly worse. And that is why I am not an ExProd.

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that was improv

Screenwriter claims credit for it in the commentary track.

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scary lefty infielder story

I’m a lefty, and my company softball team just made me the shortstop. That’s scary enough, ‘cuz I not only am a lefty – I stink, too.

What’s worse is that, given the rest of our team, I think our captain made the right decision.

Wanna guess our record?

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 25, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the same as the A's?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're massaging the narrative a bit to fit your view,

but it’s a fair point.

For mine, I see the front office’s approach to be a search for guys with baseball skills. We could view it as the anti- Stairs, Jaha, Cust movement, with an interest in players who have shown an ability to develop multiple baseball tools, and I think in general that would be correct. I think this is where the A’s also value bloodlines of former major leaguers, mostly from an argument for the nurture side of things rather than something as silly as ‘baseball genes.’

However, we do have Cust, Carter, DLS, Henry Rodriguez, and other players who are raw or one dimensional, so I don’t think the view is so narrow as to exclude any one type of player. If the A’s can buy talent on sale, they will, style points be damned. So, more than the A’s taking a predetermined vision of how their future championship team will play and building that vision, I think they’re looking at the clearance bin of the baseball talent pool with the intention of acquiring as much as possible. They’ll figure out how it all gels later.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 12:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What do you mean by "baseball skills"

Because it sounds a lot like “tools” guys and, no thank you, but I’m not willing to deal with 50 Corey Pattersons for every 1 Carlos Beltran. The A’s have gotten lucky and got Carlos Gonzalez. He’s rare.

But, yes, I hate “tools” guys a hundred times more than anybody on this site can hate the Cust/Dunn strikeout types. I just don’t get all excited about athletes who, to create a comparison with football, would destroy everybody at the combine but can’t actually play very well.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 25, 2008 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lucky for you,

I think the A’s also see plate discipline and defense as baseball skills. I wasn’t really referring to tools anyway, but I can understand what you mean. I do think there’s a difference between tools and skills though. A tool is, in my estimation, the manifestation of physical attributes while a skill is a practiced technique.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was low

spartacust is the man

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 25, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

... says "John Jaha Fan Club"

(Not that I disagree or anything.)

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would like Beane to really focus on players with doubles power

Looking around the league, I think this is one area that is very undervalued. That’s probably because home runs are actually overvalued (yes, they’re important. Yes, they’re the best thing an offensive player can do. And because of that, teams pay extra for guys who hit home runs). Oakland isn’t a place where balls fly out of the park anyway, so having players who can put up 35-40 doubles or more a season would really, really help their overall slugging.

Plus, guys like Buck (who I still have faith in) and Gonzalez are fast enough to turn a handful of those doubles into triples. Not as good as a home run, but if you fill a lineup with gap power guys you can be pretty successful even without hitting home runs.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 25, 2008 12:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we've had this discussion before

Power is NOT overvalued. It is highly valued and for a reason. I think your point is good in that gap power is undervalued by the league, but that does not mean that HR power is overvalued.

I think what the A’s are ultimately looking for is for guys that can hit .280-.290 with a good OBP, doubles power, and speed, with 15-20 HRs thrown in. Without any home run power, value goes way down. Say someone hits 40 doubles and 10 triples with 5 HRs in 600 ABs; they are still less valuable than a guy that hits 35 doubles, 5 triples and 15 HR in terms of run production and SLG.

The front office most likely looks at athleticism as a bonus as far as positional flexibility on defense is concerned. A lot of these players you can probably stick at most positions depending on their arm strength and yield a pretty good result in terms of fielding range.

Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?

by baseb3383 on Jul 25, 2008 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe that the examination of a MLB win

in a typical game, inning by inning, would reveal that
(1) if you don’t give up home runs, you have a great chance.
(2) if you can make balls hit in the gap into outs, make no errors in the infield, you have a great chance.

So I think the best pitching plus defense is going to put you into every game. You have to score runs to win, and to win against teams that ALSO have the non-HR pitching plus defense (more like the Angels, less like the Marlins) you have to get a lead-off double, move the runner, score the runner by making contact.

The Athletics team is almost there. The team ERA leads the majors, and that’s good, but like the series with Tampa Bay and NYYankees showed, simply have to cut down on HRs even more, and, on offense, have to have more doubles-to-runs type innings. Walks are great in that they wear down the opposing pitching, but it cannot be an “end in itself”, which is where this team has gotten, taking too many called third strikes.

Outfield defense and infield play has shown in those two series that it will keep you in a ballgame that could otherwise “get away” from close, just on a single play. Youth has a lot to do with this, as well as team speed.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 25, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Power is never overvalued

Power = Wins… in it’s basic form, that’s about what it amounts to.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 25, 2008 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

supporting evidence??

A team like the 1997 Athletics had a lot more power than this one.
That team came in last in the AL West.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 25, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting theory

And I have no problem with baseball players actually starting to look like athletes despite what John Kruk says

by petitceebee on Jul 25, 2008 1:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

BB has done a solid job stockpiling pitching depth via these trades...

...and can now use that depth to trade from a surplus to address deficiencies in the lineup going forward. The team had all its eggs in one basket with Harden-the system produced no other MLB-quality starters these past few years. Harden proved to be unreliable, and we were screwed. After the dust settles on July 31st, it would not surprise me to see that we have not one or two but perhaps TWELVE TO FIFTEEN pitchers in the minors with the potential to join a rotaion at the ML level within 3 years. If one is fragile, as Harden was, the organization will not be set back, because BB is going for quantity by stockpiling.
I’m not sure how many of you see Eveland and Smith in the rotation for (hopefully :) ) the next “green and gold dynasty”, but I think it is very possible that one or both will be packaged in a deal to acquire offense, perhaps as early as next year. Quality, cost-controlled, ML-seasoned starting pitching is a valuable commodity, and we will very soon have more of it than we can possibly make use of. The surplus can be used to buy bats-lots of ‘em. I wouldn’t at all mind a 2010 rotation of Gio, Cahill, Simmons, Gallagher, and whoever else comes on strongest (perhaps Anderson will be ready by then). Stash a few more in Sacto in case of injury/underperformance and deal the rest for position players that can HIT THE DAMN BALL!
As for the upcoming trade deadline, I hope BB makes several more deals. Street MUST GO NOW before it becomes too obvious to the entire league that he is not the real deal. Someone is gonna give Ellis 4 years/$30m in the offseason, and you know it won’t be us, so ship him now and get something for him. Keeping any of them now would at most add 5 or 6 wins in a season where we’ll most likely finish 15 back anyway. Deal Duke now and get a good return-he is having a career year, most likely never to be repeated. Someone is gonna overpay mightily for him, and you know it won’t be us. Squirrel away prospects by the dozens and await the “NEW SWINGIN’ A’S” of ‘10-’15.
My first game at the Coliseum was in ‘73 to see Catfish pitch, and just a few years later that whole dream roster was gone and we were the worst team in baseball. It’s always been this way, and I’m used to rooting for laundry. Whoever is wearing that uni is “ours”, even though we know they’ll end up somewhere else if they’re any good. It’s unproductive to lament this unfortunate situation-it is what it is. We should be thankful that the A’s management is proactive and has a plan-look no further than KC, Pitt, or the Giants for examples of poorly-run organizations which lack direction and vision…

by kitoko on Jul 25, 2008 3:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

[beats head on table]

Believe it or not, there is actually a continuum of stuff between a 100 MPH fastball and Paul Byrd. Huston Street is not a novelty act. He is a good pitcher who has been good for his entire career. He has one of the best pitches in all of baseball with his slider.

You could make a sort of an argument that you think he’s injured and want to foist him off on someone else for that reason, but as we discussed with the Harden deal, it’s really not to the long-term interests of the A’s to develop a reputation as lemon salesmen.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a different concern about Street

In 2005, when the league had not seen his slider, he got tons of swinging strikes from the slider. Then in 2006-07, he continued missing bats and putting hitters away – less often with the slider, more just the combination of a fastball that was “plenty good if you have to look out for the slider,” the slider, and the changeup.

Street is not putting hitters away lately. Just look at the recent ABs from Torii Hunter, Juan Rivera, Jason Giambi, and Wilson Betemit – yes Hunter and Rivera did not make solid contact, and Giambi did not put the ball in play at all, but after how many “two strike” pitches did each of these ABs end?

If I were a scout, I’d be concerned that Street does not have the “putaway pitch” he has had. Maybe a couple MPH on his fastball is partly responsible, maybe he is not able to get quite the arm angle and/or stride he needs due to physical limitations, I don’t know. What I do know is that Street is able to get two strikes on hitters but that hitters are fouling off, taking, or lining to left, pitches they used to miss, and that they are seeing well pitches that used to fool them. That is not a good thing.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's having trouble putting lhhs away, as the change isn't working too well

but overall he’s still great at “putting hitters away” and is doing it at the same rate he did in 2005-2006. He’s getting a ton of swinging strikes. There aren’t more than 5-6 guys who are better at “putting away RHHs.” That concern really only applies to the past few games.

He doesn’t use the slider to LHHs, though, and it probably wouldn’t work, so that is a legitimate concern. I think he needs to throw the fastball inside more to them, which he is perhaps afraid to do.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 25, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps afraid, because

anything inside to a lefty this season has seemingly been crushed over the wall in right (Starting in Japan)?

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jul 25, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That sounds like a serious problem if hitters only have to look outside.

It eliminates the backup slider on the outside corner, and the slider at the shoe tops, and makes the changeup a lot less effective.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 26, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This whole thing with selling lemons is a little rediculous to me

They’re major league baseball players, not used cars. It’s not as if the thrice broke down Fiatt down at Jimmy’s chop shop gets a write up in SF Gate every time it breaks down. GMs know what they are getting into when acquiring an injury prone player.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, GM does not know what it's doing.

Otherwise I would be getting a lotter better mileage.

Oh wait…wrong GM.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think they should deal street as well

they have plenty of closers in waiting in devine, casilla + 2 in the minors.

by echerrst on Jul 25, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

trade the blue jays

simmons street embree smith for halladay snider and cash… and maybe scutaro

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 25, 2008 8:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Replace Smith with Eveland and I'd do that trade

Imagine the hitter you could flip Halladay for, and the trade starts to look pretty good for Oakland.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dangit, my Most Interesting Man in the World impression is too unspecific

Of course I would do that trade. As is. In fact, I’d give them BOTH Smith and Eveland if they wanted it. It’s just that Toronto would never do it in a million years. Who trades their ace and their #1 prospect for a bunch of back-of-the-rotation starters and bullpen guys, in a noncompetitive season?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that was funny.

"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."

by SwampyD on Jul 25, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree

It’s one of the few times that explaining it is necessary, yet still makes it funny.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jul 25, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a more interesting question is,

who the heck trades for freaking Matt Morris in his “suck years,” when the team is at least three years away from competing? That one still floors me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's pretty rare that you can look at a pure salary dump

and immediately, without hesitation, state that the team dumping the salary won the trade.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Esteban Loaiza, too

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 27, 2008 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you think of rollerblading???

In a word, or sentence?

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 25, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's looking for grit and heart.

and people who play the game the right way, know how to win, do the little things, and are ballplayers.

by mikev on Jul 25, 2008 8:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget who have "the look of a ballplayer"

and “show up to play”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only 110%? The players we're drafting

will throw at the head of any teammate who doesn’t give 115%.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like your grit

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i tells y'all what...

when someone talks a bunch of BS about 110% and gamers, and grit, and determination, i always get the distinct feeling that they love football more than baseball and wish baseball were more like football.

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 25, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect the A's emphasis on speed in recent

trades and drafts partly reflects an admission of the importance of creating one run when your team is built for low scoring games – as both the A’s and Angels are. It doesn’t hurt that Geren is much more “speed friendly” than Macha was (or else the organizational philosophy has shifted).

Power is still better but it’s expensive, so you end up with guys like Cust who are “all or nothing” and don’t help you get so far as second base when the ball stays in the park. And speed doesn’t slump the way power does.

I still think the A’s are drafting and acquiring “best available player” more than they are targeting skills, but they are clearly not anti-speed in their evaluations.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 8:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The game is currently in flux.

Things always change, and baseball is certainly no exception. I imagine that a chemical free environment is fueling the recent changes away from the power game and back to a more classical style of play. Maybe this explains the renewed emphasis on pitching and speed.

It will be interesting to see if Billy reads the tea leaves correctly in the next few seasons. If anything, I imagine the cost of power will continue to spike.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Things always change"

really? How about the acceleration of gravity, on Earth?
Instrumentally, you might get enough variation to declare “change”, but is it practicable?

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 25, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Relative to the universe, earth is a small sample anyway.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even gravity changes.

Suns become black holes, black holes eventually, “evaporate”, or so a physicist once tried in vain to explain to me. In several million years our sun will eventually have something to say about earths mass, hence affecting it’s gravity. As far as the rate of acceleration of gravity goes, it may be one of the laws of physics confining it to its current status. I don’t really know. I imagine if you looked hard enough you could find a quantum theorist who may have a different view.

All I was doing was musing on the changes brought about by a chemical free environment. If it’s true, then I imagine the law of supply and demand will drive the price of power even higher. I was wondering if Beane is modifying his philosophical approach to the game in light of recent change.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need to acquire a hydrogen-based hitter

who is about to start producing helium. And then draft his sun.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately,

once in our system, he will fuse into Crosby.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Unfortunately, once in our system, his sun will turn into a black hole and suck.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jul 25, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the difference between those two comments?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the difference between those two comets?

Well, nothing, except that one’s from the Oort cloud and the other’s from the Kuiper belt!

Duh.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even Kuiper's

kids hate the fact that they originated from his belt.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offense in the AL and NL from 2003-2008

008: AL, 4.64, 265 .333 .412, NL 4.50, 259 .329 .412

2007: AL, 4.90, 271 .338 .423, NL, 4.71, 266 .334 .423

2006: AL , 4.97,275 .339 .437, NL , 4.76, 265 .334 .427

2005: AL, 4.76, 268 .330 .424, NL, 4.45, 262 .330 .414

2004: AL, 5.01 270 .338 .433, NL, 4.64, 263 .333 .423

2003: AL, 4.86, 267 .333 .428, NL, 4.61, 262 .332 .417

While the A’s offense has gone the drain in the past month or so, the rest of the AL has started hitting. I’d wait before jumping to conclusions about a new, lower run offensive environment.,

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 26, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait. It's only the A's games with a lower scoring environment?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 26, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think in terms of the draft it may have to do with

starting to prefer “athletes” over “power/patience/non-athletic” guys emphasized in Moneyball, in the hopes that guys like that have more room to grow and improve or be less likely to stagnate (and will also bring a lot more to the table defensively).

Also, I think valuing speed in roster construction and the manager/philosophy being “speed-friendly” are very different. My own opinion is that speed (qua baserunning speed, forgetting about defense) is still relatively far down on the list of things to look for in acquiring players, but that running more is a welcome development. It never made a lick of sense to have, e.g., Durham and Byrnes steal as rarely as they did.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

when Byrnes was younger,

he wasn’t very good at reading pitchers, and likely would have been thrown out enough to not make it worthwhile to have him stealing all the time.

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 25, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was 85% with the A's

that’s plenty more attempts to go before it turns bad.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 25, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It makes you wonder how much

the “Wait for the 3 HR” philosophy being the best way to win was a direct result of steriods. Now that the game is cleaner, while that approach still works in theory, the number of available players necessary for the philsophy to work is either too expensive or simply non-existent due to a much smaller supply shifting the “better” winning philosophy towards the more classical offensive approaches or towards something new that requires some patience to sort out.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jul 25, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Earl Weaver approach

works in small parks, but that’s about it these days.

plus, it’s important to remember that the other half of Earl Weaver’s success was in having one dominant pitching staff after another.

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 25, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More like dominant defense and control pitchers that limited walks and HRs

McNally, Cuellar, Dobson etc looked a lot better than they were because of Brooks, Belanger, Grich, and Blair. Palmer was dominant of course. Memorial Stadium was a pitcher’s park more often than not.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 26, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not so much steriods, as video

I think the pitchers win out with video. The public isn’t going to hear it, but I speculate that batters’ approaches to different counts, men on base, etc. are being dissected to the ‘nth degree, and can be, given the overwhelming availability of video..slow mo..everything. Catchers don’t need to keep it all in their heads, either, as the pitch can be simply called from the bench, where reams of triangulating data can be summoned, pitch by pitch if necessary.

You might say, well pitchers can be scrupulously examined and exploited, ceteris paribus but I give you the example of Sandy Koufax. It was soon discovered that he tipped his curveball every time. Yet hitters could do nothing to exploit it, even when they knew the pitch was coming.
Batters will have a harder time thinking “okay, he always throws the splitter 0-2 if it is later than the 5th inning, unless the score is.. and no runners..etc. Batters are losing.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Team building exercise '99

I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball

by JediLeroy on Jul 25, 2008 9:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

mmmmmm

you know when I’m down to my socks it’s time for business, that’s why they call it business time.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Jul 25, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

makin' love...

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

makin' love for...

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You say you want some more

Well I’m not surprised

by Keze on Jul 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but I am quite sleepy...

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

makin' love for two...

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

makin' love for TWO MINUTES!

when it’s with me you only need two minutes. two minutes in heaven is better than one minute in heaven.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of speed...

Michael Richard, SS, Kane County

He was our 11th pick out of Prarie View A&M in 2007, and has had a nice pro career. Typical quick 5’11” SS who has little power (might be developing), but is struggling in the field (16 errors).

2007 Stats:

SS Vancouver: 61 G, .289 BA, .733 OPS, 1 HR, 1 Triple, 35:35 bb/k, 25-31 SB

2008 Stats:

Kane County: 49 G, .343 BA, .853 OPS, 2 HR, 2 Triples, 24:20 bb/k, 28-33 SB

Also, Weeks went 2-5 with his first pro HR (congrats) and, of course, his 6th error in 14 games.

by rharden40 on Jul 25, 2008 10:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Michael Richard?

Kramer!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he can play like this...

Ill take Kramer at SS and give Jerry a try out at 2B

by rharden40 on Jul 25, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's cut Landon Powell and sign Newman!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad he turned out to be a complete asshole

But in a game that employs Brett Myers, Manny Ramirez, and Francisco Rodriguez, I suppose there’s room for one more.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, to be more specific

the singular of “Kramer.”

I didn’t know “Kramer” was plural before today. Must be some German thing…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With our current crop of minor leaguers, anyone want to take a guess at what we might look like down the road?

Pennington looks like the next Crosby-Good year at AAA to try to mask his bad years everywhere else, will get handed the job, and everyone will hope he performs like he did at AAA.

I am going to take a gander and try at the 2011 Roster.

C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B Sean Doolittle
2B Jamile Weeks
3B Adrian Cardenas
SS Cliff Pennington
LF Ryan Sweeney
RF Carlos Gonzalez
CF Aaron Cunningham
DH Chris Carter

C2 Josh Donaldson
UTL Eric Patterson [2B/3B/CF]
CF Corey Brown
IF Gregorio Petit [SS/2B/3B]
1B Daric Barton

SP Brett Anderson
SP Trever Cahill
SP Sean Gallagher
SP Gio Gonzalez
SP James Simmons

RP Joey Devine
RP Andrew Brown
RP Henry Rodriguez
RP Sam Damel
RP Brad Ziegler
RP Andrew Carignan
RP Craig Italiano

If they all make it, and perform at the big league club, that looks like a LOT of guys who could be candidates to be at the top of the order in the 1-2 spots; Weeks, Cardenas, Sweeney, Cunningham and even Pennington if he ever pans out to be anything of value.

I use Pennington because it does not look like there are any other good SS Prospects in the system of note that I know of that are higher than Kane County.

Not sure, if Dixon does pan out, if he will be ready by then, since he’s only 17 now. Then again, he or Brown could be the starting OF (or Buck if he remembers how to hit) instead of Sweeney. Hell, Sweeney and Patrol Craft would be the Old Men of the team by then, and might be dealt…

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 25, 2008 4:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dixon will not be ready in 2011 (at least not unless he's super crazy insane good)

It’s stretching to think he could be ready in 2012. Keep in mind, he’s in rookie ball and not looking especially polished there. (Talented yes, polished no.)

If he progresses normally, we’d hope to see something like this:
2008-Rookie
2009-Ex. Spring-Short Season
2010-A
2011-A+/AA
2012-AA/AAA/September callup
2013-MLB

That would still put him in MLB for good at age 22, which is very good.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here a question for you PT

would you be for Dixon skipping from low A to say AAA or from AA to the bigs if he could cut/handle it or would you rather have him prove that he can play at each level before moving on?

by A'sfaninNC on Jul 26, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of guys seem to skip AAA these days

Other than that, however, I’d want to see a steady progression. There just isn’t any reason to do it otherwise. Rushing prospects might be OK for a big-market team that just wants to triage out the handful of true superstars from the mass of average prospects, but it won’t do for the A’s.

When you bring a guy up super-young, you end up getting less productive years out of him than you would if you were patient about it. So unless you think you can sign all of your top dudes to free-agent extensions anyway, it’s a bad idea. I really don’t like playing guys in levels that they’re more than a year or two young for unless they’ve absolutely killed it at the age-appropriate level.

One of the indirect effects of college draftees, of course, is that they don’t have this problem. The full-season ball levels are set up best to deal with the college progression—low A at 21, high A at 22, AA at 23, and AAA or the majors at 24.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 27, 2008 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweeney and Patrol Craft would be the Old Men of the team by then, and might be dealt…

stop it already with this kind of talk Zonis!

For God’s sake, it’s Friday man…..don’t be a buzzkill!

by mrod on Jul 25, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be satisfied with those position players

but no lefties in the bullpen may prove to be a problem. Josh Outman instead of Brown?

Procrastinators unite....tomorrow

by muffinpryde on Jul 26, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blevins

He’ll be good. Book it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 27, 2008 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

just for reference

jemile, not jamile
trevor, not trever
demel, not damel

i don’t want this site to turn into golden state of mind, where no one can spell monta ellis or corey maggette correctly.

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 26, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about BaRoN dAvIs?

Or is that a touchy subject for people who care about basketball?

(totally agree btw, getting the names wrong is a pet peeve of mine too)

by nevermoor on Jul 26, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh

i don’t really care…it’s gonna be different without him, but the dubs were always a boom dizzle injury away from a “lost” season anyway, so it’s nice to be out from under that cloud

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 26, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Maggette (that really is difficult to spell) adds much

Baron is at least an awesome player. I’d take him with the inevitable injuries in a second over Maggette.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 26, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't discount Mazzaro from at least a bullpen spot. He's a lot better than Italiano at this point.

I’d be shocked if Andrew Brown is still around then. He might not even make it through this month. Jose Garcia and Andrew Bailey are other candidates.

I still don’t see Doolittle as a better bet than Barton.

Carlos has been among the best CFs in the AL this year. I’d think he has a better shot at CF than Cunningham. Corey Brown looks like either a starter or a non-major leaguer.

If Donaldson’s actually ready for the majors, Suzuki could be dealt.

The payroll is going to be pretty low for that team. I can see trading and/or spending FA dollars on an impact hitter—Vladimir Guerrero, Hunter Pence, Prince Fielder, Matt Kemp, Nick Markakis, Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Howard, Joe Mauer all will be at or nearing free agency about that time.

I’d be really disappointed if Pennington’s the SS. He’d be a worse fielding Neifi Perez.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 26, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two articles by local writers

that I thought A’s fans might be interested in reading. One is by Monte Poole of the Oakland Tribune and the other one is by Lowell Cohn of the Santa Rose Press Democrat.

Poole’s article is a little more well thought out but still has a hint of “Billy Bashing” in it.

Cohn on the other hand is complete moron. This guy needs to retire from sports writing….it has passed him by. Anyways, here are the links….enjoy.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080721/NEWS/346116111/1057/SPORTS0908&title=A_s_trade_their_stars__and_the_Beanophiles_rejoice

http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/ci_9976225

by mrod on Jul 25, 2008 5:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully, they're looking for somebody that can hit baseballs.

Hard, and often.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 26, 2008 1:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms
Start posting about the Athletics »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Pulp_fiction_small
A's interested in Cuban defector Arguelles
Wishyouwerehere250_small
AFL PitchFX Pt. 1: James Simmons
Imgp0089_editedagasin_small
DLD 11/24/09 - Fine, I'll make another video game dump
Me_at_att_park_small
Greener Grass, Episode 7: Transportation Proclamation
Me_at_att_park_small
Old McPherson is an A, e yi e yi yoooooooo

Recent FanPosts

Waregroupcheck_small
DLD 11.25.09 - Thanksgiving eve
Small
The A's Move to Oakland in 1968
Funny-pictures12_small
If Jack Cust Traded, Then To Whom And For What?
Small
Jack Cust Drawing Trade Interest?
Depaulbluedemons_small
Community Prospect List #18

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Tyler_at_maya_school_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

As_kings_cal_small louismg

Editors

Countdown_small Taj Adib

Ziegler160px_small Flashfire

527918550406_0_bg_small notsellingjeans