Quizical Englishman
Stuff I've always wondered about:
1] Why don't the SS and the 2B swop positions for Left hand hitters?
2] Why aren't there switch pitchers?
3] Why do baseball players wear gloves? A cricket ball is much heavier than a Baseball and Cricket fielders don't wear gloves, they also make catches with either or both hands?
4] Why are there short stops, all the other positions make sense and have meaningful and descriptive names, Short stop seems to be the odd one out?
5] Why is it called a home run?
6] Why Rookie?
7] Who calls an Infield fly, when and why?
I'm sure there are more, but thats all I can think of at tne moment.
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Switch Pitcher
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xrM5PITsn7Q
You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.
by Swooney's Left Foot on Jul 24, 2008 3:09 PM PDT 0 recs
I can take 2, and 7.
2. There aren’t switch pitchers because it’s fantastically hard to become Major League caliber pitching with just ONE hand. However, the New York Yankees did select a guy in the draft that pitches with both hands. As far as I know, he’s the only switch pitcher in baseball.
7. The infield fly rule is called when there are less than 2 outs and a possible force out at third base (ie runners on 1st and 2nd, or bases loaded). It’s called when the batter hits a fly ball that an infielder can easily catch. The batter is automatically out, whether the fielder makes the catch or not. It’s called by the umpire, and the intention is to prevent fielders from intentionally dropping the fly ball and then getting a double play.
by mikev on Jul 24, 2008 3:12 PM PDT 0 recs
I've always wondered...
Can infield fly be called by any of the umpires, or just the plate umpire? Or crew chief?
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 24, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
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Now that I'm not sure about.
Lemme go ask my umpire buddy down the hallway.
by mikev on
Jul 24, 2008 3:35 PM PDT
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Wow, that must be a long hallway
I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball
by JediLeroy on
Jul 24, 2008 7:04 PM PDT
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home plate
in my experience…but that is slow pitch softball umpiring ;)
"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006
by flipgatey3 on
Jul 24, 2008 10:08 PM PDT
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Finally found him!
He said that the infield fly rule can be called by any umpire.
He also said that ‘unofficially’ when he’s umpiring with only 1 other official, they draw an imaginary line from 1B to 3B. Anything in the air that’s closer to home plate is his call, anything beyond the imaginary line is the IF umpires call.
by mikev on
Jul 25, 2008 1:36 PM PDT
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FINALLY!
Thanks. I’ve been sitting here staring at the computer, waiting…
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 25, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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#1
Why doesn’t a LH batter run to third instead of first?
Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 3:14 PM PDT 0 recs
I always thought that would've been fair...
Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox
by Leopold Bloom on
Jul 24, 2008 3:19 PM PDT
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Collisions.
Except on the A’s. No chance of that happening.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:21 PM PDT
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Because they never put the ball in play?
You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.
by Swooney's Left Foot on
Jul 24, 2008 3:23 PM PDT
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Because what are the odds...
A LH batter puts the ball in play with a man on third?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:23 PM PDT
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Or a RH batter for that matter.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:24 PM PDT
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Gotcha
You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.
by Swooney's Left Foot on
Jul 24, 2008 3:25 PM PDT
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First we have to have a RH bat
"the A's need more quality preembreetive pitching" ~monkeyball
by OptimistPrime on
Jul 24, 2008 7:22 PM PDT
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In rec softball, you often see this swap (because the 2B is awful)
In MLB, there’s no reason because both players are near perfect defenders. All major league players are so good defensively that it is very hard to separate them through objective stats (it’s own problem) but there would be no benefit to the swap.
by nevermoor on
Jul 24, 2008 3:25 PM PDT
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the differentiator, though, being arm strength (generally)
Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 24, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
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SS and 2nd base do not swap...
because the ball plays differently when struck. A SS usually has a superior arm and makes the long throw to first. 2nd basemen don’t necessarily require a strong arm. A SS is usually the best athlete on the team.
I’m not sure about the comparison to a cricket ball. A baseball can be imparted with tremendous velocity, trying to catch a line drive barehanded at third would likely break some fingers.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 24, 2008 3:16 PM PDT 0 recs
in cricket though,
there are some positions that are equivalent to playing a shallow third-base…. I think one of them is called “silly mid-off,” and balls can come at that position very hard (albeit not quite as hard as in baseball)
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 24, 2008 3:44 PM PDT
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Silly Cricket
Having played Cricket but not Baseball it is difficult to judge relitive velocities, but any cricket position prefixed by Silly (there are several) means you are very close to the batter. A select few cricket Bowlers (equivalent to Pitcher in baseball) can deliver the ball in the high ninties, some in the low ninties and many in the high eighties, so the ball does arrive at very high speed. From bowlers hand to batter is about 19 feet and to a ‘silly’ fielder another 10/15 feet so the ball is travelling very quickly when it arrives. I fielded close in positions for most of my career and never broke a finger or hand, but plenty of others have.
Any similarity between my spelling and that deemed correct, is pureley accidental.
by Dalesman on
Jul 24, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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I think a baseball can leave a bat at
120 mph. The pitcher is 60 feet away and doesn’t always have the reaction time to get out of the way, much less attempt a catch. Judging by the distances you give in cricket, I would say that a well struck baseball travels significantly faster than a cricket ball. I’m just guessing though.
I’ve never understood cricket, though I’ve been curious. I’m told a game can last several days, but over here we bitch if a baseball games goes longer than 3 hours.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 6:04 PM PDT
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A baseball definately travels faster than a cricket ball off the bat - but that's
down to the nature of the swing (trying to direct the ball [cricket] rather than hitting it as hard as you can with a vague idea of where you want it to go [baseball].
You’re thinking of Test matches (5 days, played between international teams) and First class matches (4 days, played between county teams). Each team has two innings, and team that scores the most runs wins.
by OldhamA on
Jul 25, 2008 5:39 AM PDT
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2 innings in 4 days?
Sounds like your typical Rangers game.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 25, 2008 9:04 AM PDT
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QOTM
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 25, 2008 10:36 AM PDT
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There are different forms of cricket
the full version, the one day version, and 20s. The duration of 20s is similar to the duration of a baseball game.
The different duration of the different forms means that strategy, offense and defense, offense especially, differs in the various forms.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
Jul 25, 2008 9:02 AM PDT
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#4
Because there need to be two defensive players on each side of the infield (because both sides are the same size). With only three bases, you need to come up with a name for the fourth position.
by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:19 PM PDT 0 recs
I once read something...
explaining where the term, “short stop” originated. For the life of me, I can’t remember what it was.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:20 PM PDT
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Strange because I was just wondering that.
Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox
by Leopold Bloom on
Jul 24, 2008 3:21 PM PDT
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This guy’s theory, serious or not, sounds good enough…
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 24, 2008 3:34 PM PDT
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That's close to what I read.
It’s cool we have a game old enough that the original names of one of the position is lost to antiquity.
No wonder the Knickerbockers took up basketball instead. You must really suck if you write the rules and still manage to loose.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:39 PM PDT
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#5
Because there weren’t fences originally (fans sat in the deep outfield, but the ball was still live), so you’d actually have to run all the way to home.
by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:20 PM PDT 0 recs
#6
From Wikipedia (so who knows if it’s true)
The Oxford English Dictionary states that the origins are uncertain, but that perhaps it is a corruption of the word recruit. The earliest example from the OED is from Rudyard Kipling’s Barrack-Room Ballads (published 1892): So ‘ark an’ ‘eed, you rookies, which is always grumblin’ sore, referring to rookies in the sense of raw recruits to the British Army.[2]A common urban legend suggests that the term derives from the game of chess; the “rook” in chess is often the last piece to be introduced into gameplay. This would appear to be consistent with the definition of “rookie”. However, there are no known citations that prove or disprove this explanation.
by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:21 PM PDT 0 recs
From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
rookie
1892, “raw recruit,” originally in Kipling’s Barrack-Room Ballads, perhaps from recruit, influenced by rook (1) in its secondary sense, suggesting “easy to cheat.”
Not really different from what you said.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on
Jul 24, 2008 3:51 PM PDT
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you're missing a zed
Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 3:31 PM PDT 0 recs
Zed's dead, baby.
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 24, 2008 3:35 PM PDT
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+1
Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox
by Leopold Bloom on
Jul 24, 2008 3:38 PM PDT
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:)
Quoting Pulp Fiction is a great way to make me like you
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on
Jul 24, 2008 3:52 PM PDT
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I got my technique down and everything--
I don’t be tickling or nothing!
Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox
by Leopold Bloom on
Jul 24, 2008 4:09 PM PDT
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It ain't no ballpark either.
Look, maybe your method of massage difffers from mine, but touchin’ his lady’s feet, and stickin’ your tongue in her holyiest of holyies, ain’t the same ballpark, ain’t the same league, ain’t even the same f*in’ sport. Foot massages don’t mean shit.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on
Jul 24, 2008 4:15 PM PDT
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The Pulp Fiction references are coming thick and fast today
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 24, 2008 11:04 PM PDT
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That's what she said
You prefer a magic trick, instead? Watch me make this pencil disappear.
by Swooney's Left Foot on
Jul 24, 2008 11:26 PM PDT
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So I don't have to include you in the QOTM any more?
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 25, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
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#3
Gloves developed slowly in baseball. First because catching a baseball hurts and later because it allowed players to catch fly balls (previously they’d regularly let them drop). Finally, they caught on because they made people play better:
Bid McPhee as very stubborn but a standout in baseball. Finally in 1896, he caved in and got the glove, thus drastically reducing his forty five error season down to only fifteen.
by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:31 PM PDT 0 recs
Another Question for the Community
Why are there no huddles in baseball like they do during a timeout in basketball and football? I always wondered why there is no pep talk, strategizing or that sort of thing. Especially when the team is trailing on a close game….perhaps that’s where the tradition of hand signals come to fore?
by arch on Jul 24, 2008 3:41 PM PDT 0 recs
Isn't that what the "conference on the mound" is?
(NO, monkeyball, put the Euphemism Dictionary away.)
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 24, 2008 3:45 PM PDT
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{snerk}
“put the Euphemism Dictionary away”
Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 24, 2008 4:27 PM PDT
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"LOL"
There's no textbook for how to treat a geriatric tapir.
by Poppy on
Jul 25, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
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in football,
since there are only 10-23 games, depending on if you’re in pee-wee league or the Super Bowl champion, it is important to get emotionally “up” for those games.
in baseball, though, there are obviously a lot more games, and it’s more important to keep on an even keel, to maintain consistency in attitude and performance. baseball is much more laid-back than football, and rah-rah pep talks are not generally well-respected.
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 24, 2008 3:47 PM PDT
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Being all RAHHHHH doesn't really help you in baseball
Adrenaline is often going to have a negative impact on your performance.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on
Jul 24, 2008 3:52 PM PDT
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It would take the OFers a while to run in
talk, then run back out. The games already last 3+ hours. That would make them a good deal longer unless you only allow one or two meeting a game
by A'sfaninNC on
Jul 24, 2008 4:16 PM PDT
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Especially if one of the outfielders is
Matt Stairs (who might not make it) or Jose Canseco (who might get lost on the way)
by nevermoor on
Jul 24, 2008 4:23 PM PDT
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Football and basketball players huddle
to call a play. There are virtually no “plays” in baseball that involve all 9 fielders. When there is such a “play” - say, the manager bringing in one OF to be a 5th IF - they do “huddle” at the mound, unless that visit would lead to an unwanted pitching change
The baseball equivalent of a huddle would be the catcher and pitcher talking on the mound. I’s actually pretty similar to basketball—usually the point guard calls a play in the flow of the game, without a huddle (like the C flashing signs to the pitcher), but occasionally there’s a “huddle” to go over something.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on
Jul 25, 2008 9:21 AM PDT
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I think I've got them all...
1- mostly because the 2B is specially trained to make what is called “the pivot,” which is a quick catch, followed by a spin to orient hisself towards first base, followed by a throw. Oftentimes, a speeding baserunner is trying to hurtle his body into the second baseman, in order to make the second baseman fail to complete the throw to first.
The pivot only comes into play on ground balls to the infield with a runner on first and one or less outs, but since making “double plays” is a highly important defensive weapon, and the pivot is almost always done by the second baseman, it makes sense to specialize and not to switch around.
2. There are switch pitchers, but they are rare. Greg Harris is, I believe, the only major league example. Pat Venditte, in the Yankees’ minor league system, is also a switch pitcher.
3. Baseball started out in its’ early years with a lot of fluctuations and variances in its’ rules. Eventually, amateur teams grew into professional teams and professional teams grew into leagues, and rules became more uniform, eventually evolved into what we know as the modern game today. The best way to answer this question is to imagine a world where MCC never existed, and cricket players mostly came from working classes, and started to use gloves as a way to gain advantage in the field. When the officials kindly asked them to remove their gloves, the players responded in kind by spitting tobacco juice in the officials’ eyes and threatening their personage. Of course, the officials backing down in fear, and eventually all the players started wearing gloves, and the rules were adapted to allow fielders’ gloves, and the game evolved so.
4 & 5. A shortstop (formerly called “short stop”) used to play shallow center field, while the three regular outfielders played deeper. Back in the days when there were no fences, it was necessary to keep line drives and hard grounders from getting between the outfielders, because the ball would keep on going, and the batter/runner would most likely be able to run around all of the bases, getting a “home run.” Yes, back in the day, “home run” implied a hard, brisk, well-earned trip around the bases after hitting a ball between the outfielders.
These days, with not only fences, but fences well within the range of long fly balls that clear them,(today’s “Home Run”) the outfielders don’t need to play nearly as deeply, and it is most efficient to use the shortstop as a counterbalance to the second baseman on the other side of second base. This has been so for well over a hundred years.
6. “Rookie” is an artistic license on the word “recruit” used by Rudyard Kipling that has since come into common usage in sport to mean someone in his first year at a particular level.
7. The umpire calls an infield fly when there is a runner on first, or runners on first and second, and less than two outs, and the batter hits a pop fly to the infield. The batter is called automatically out, and the play ends. The reason for this play is that over a hundred years ago, some ingenious players got the idea to drop easy fly balls to the infield and pick them up to start easy double plays. The only remedy to this stratagem is to send the runners when the ball is hit in the air. Yet, if the runner(s) are started, the fielders can elect to catch the ball, trapping the runner(s) off base, and making it easy to start a double play (Google “tagging up” if you need an explanation of this concept. Since the runner(s) in this situation were pretty much damned if they ran and damned if they stayed put, the “infield fly rule” was put into place to eliminate this situation altogether.
Now here’s one for you?
How come googly bowlers are going out of fashion? I would think that googly bowlers would draw many more Leg-Before-Wickets than other type of bowlers, due to the action on their throws (note to everyone else: a googly bowler is the cricket equivalent of a pitcher that throws a hard slider and a wicked screwball… big action in both directions)...
How come Australia and England didn’t get into a punch-up during the Bodyline incident? If something like that had happened in baseball, benches would have been cleared and there would have been a pile of bodies on the middle of the field? (note to everyone else: the Bodyline incident was a strategy of throwing every pitch directly at the batter. Yes, every pitch was a purpose pitch. Every pitch was a potential beanball, because in cricket, bowlers usually bounce the ball off the ground before it gets into the hitting area)
Good luck…
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 24, 2008 3:41 PM PDT 0 recs
You're wrong on 7
It isn’t when there’s only a runner on first. Dropping a ball then wouldn’t be a double play b/c the batter would be safe at first. You’re looking for First and Second or Loaded (as mikev said above)
by nevermoor on
Jul 24, 2008 3:54 PM PDT
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Also, the play doesn't "end."
Runners can advance at their own risk.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on
Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM PDT
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i simplified it for our friend.
of course, after the infield fly is out, “Batter/runners can advance at their own risk.”
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM PDT
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you are correct. thanks...
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM PDT
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Throwing at the hitter in cricket is an entirely accepted strategy
if I understand it correctly.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 24, 2008 3:56 PM PDT
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It used to be so in baseball too.
The practice was called, “soaking”. If you could hit the runner while he was off base with the ball, he was declared out. Often he was actually out cold.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 3:59 PM PDT
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Runner instead of hitter though
It also used to be ok to throw at hitters for being jackasses, until MLB got all touchy-feely and started dropping suspensions all over the place.
by nevermoor on
Jul 24, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
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Sadly, you're correct.
Nothing like good old fashioned baseball justice. I suppose the owners got tired of seeing million dollar players put off the field by their K-Rod-ian antics.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on
Jul 24, 2008 4:11 PM PDT
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Yes
It is a very definite tactic for a bowler to try and hit a batter, a quick bowler will bounce the ball short so that it rears up and hopefully arrows in at the batsman’s head. Batsmen can also try to hit ‘silly’ fielders. To be fair most bowlers (but not all) are trying to cause the batsman to take evasive action and in the process get out, the batsman is trying to get the fielder to move further back for subsequent balls.
Any similarity between my spelling and that deemed correct, is pureley accidental.
by Dalesman on
Jul 24, 2008 5:04 PM PDT
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Who the hell tries to hit the silly fielder?! That's a new one to me.
And seriously, very few bowlers try to actually hit the batter – well not consistently anyway. As you say it’s more to do with making them take evasive action and to break their concentration so as to set them up for a wicket taking delivery later on.
by OldhamA on
Jul 25, 2008 5:42 AM PDT
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Cricket is a very complex game
and I was over simplifying it, perhaps I should have phrased it better, but the point I was trying to make was that a Batsmen can try to intimedate the close in fielders to move them back a bit.
Any similarity between my spelling and that deemed correct, is pureley accidental.
by Dalesman on
Jul 25, 2008 3:56 PM PDT
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I can handle cricket questions it with baseball I struggle
We do still have googly bowlers, more usualy they are called Leg Spin bowlers, and perhaps the greatest of them all (Shane Warne) has only just retired. The googly was developed as a leg spinners suprise ball by a chap called Bosenquet and was called a Bosie.
and to your second question I can only reply: Because it just wouldn’t have been Cricket, old man.
Any similarity between my spelling and that deemed correct, is pureley accidental.
by Dalesman on
Jul 24, 2008 4:56 PM PDT
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"Because it just wouldn't have been Cricket, old man."
Awesome. QOTM
by dscel on
Jul 24, 2008 6:47 PM PDT
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You forgot to mention that the the bodyline series wasn't about beanballs (which
are ALWAYS mistakes in cricket), it was about the English tactic of bowling at the Australian batsmen’s ribs every delivery whilst setting up a strong (see ridiculous) legside field of catchers behind the wicket. The ball was bouncing, it was just aimed at the body.
by OldhamA on
Jul 25, 2008 5:45 AM PDT
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and I also forgot to mention that
the tactic was devised to neutralize Don Bradman, the Babe Ruth of Cricket.
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on
Jul 25, 2008 10:38 AM PDT
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Beanballs?
Is that what Beamers are called in Lancashire? I know a number of Test batsmen who have stories about intentional beamers, but I would like to think that you are correct and that they are ALWAYS mistakes.
I must admit that I dodged trying to explain Bodyline and the aftermath as I would probably cloud the issue with too much detail, but your brief description is very good.
Any similarity between my spelling and that deemed correct, is pureley accidental.
by Dalesman on
Jul 25, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
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