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Beane's Challenge: HOW to Add A Hitter?

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_tiny by Nico on Comment 534 comments

It is no simple question. Everyone from Billy to opposing pitchers know that the A's need a middle-of-the-order bat added to the current configuration, before the A's are back in the "contention conversation," and I believe the A's need to avoid the Casey Blakes who are "ok but not special" and the Frank Thomases who are "not part of the 2010 conversation," and find a way to add a hitter who can anchor the team through at least the 2009-2012 seasons.

But when you look at the available "too legit to quit" hitters Oakland could target, they tend to have qualities that make them poor targets:

Past Their Prime: For Pat Burrell, on the free agent market you will pay too much for years in Burrell's mid-to-late 30s. That is almost never a good idea. I would love to add Troy Glaus and figure out where to play whom later, but again Glaus is 32 and exiting the years when players tend to be most productive and healthy.

Very Costly In Talent To Acquire: Jason Bay seems like the closest thing to an ideal fit, but if the Pirates are smart (and GMs aren't as dumb as you think as often as you think), they will not let their star player go without getting a return that includes players like Trevor Cahill, Brett Anderson, Henry Rodriguez, Kurt Suzuki, Ryan Sweeney - in other words, precisely the guys the A's are counting on to make the team special over these coming years. Trouble is, teams that aren't close to winning want Cahill and Anderson and Rodriguez, not Street and Ellis, and teams close to winning will not be eager to trade their cleanup hitter, now or this Winter, for Oakland's 4th and 5th best young pitching prospects.

So what is the right approach for Beane to take to try to secure a legitimate hitter who could be productive for the next four years? Personally, I think Cahill and Anderson should be untouchable, even in the tempting quest to finally upgrade this frustratingly inept offense. Starting pitching is the cornerstone of success, and those two seem like as close to "sure things" to develop into solid, if not front-end, major league starters. I tend to think the one trade chip Oakland might entertain is Henry Rodriguez, a guy whose tremendous upside makes him incredibly appealing to teams but with whom the A's, thanks to the depth of having Cahill and Anderson, could afford to part. Rodriguez, packaged with James Simmons or Vince Mazzaro, might help fetch you a worthy major league ready, or mid-to-late 20s, hitter for the middle of the lineup.

But who? Who is the right hitter and what team is the right trading partner, and does the right player happen to play for the right team? For some reason, the name that keeps popping back into my mind is Ryan Garko, a right-handed hitter who is 27, could bat 4th in the A's lineup, plays for a team (Cleveland) that is not going to win this season, and happens to be having a down year. He also happens to play 1B, not SS or 3B or LF - oh well - and acquiring a 1B for the long-term would put Daric Barton's future with Oakland in question.

But if Rodriguez, Simmons, Mazzaro, Street (great fit for Cleveland, IMO), and maybe Barton himself were put into the "let's find a deal" conversation for Garko, or for Garko plus __, I would have to think Cleveland would be all ears. Is there a deal there, maybe for the right two of those five A's, that might be good for both teams?

And if it's not Garko - and that's just one of a zillion hypothetical possibilities - how should the A's go about landing the right guy to bat 4th from 2009-2012, so that Oakland can get back to the business of rebuilding a team that can score enough to win more baseball games than the Angels do?

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Whew!

Relief….I thought the headline read “How to add a HITLER”

"the A's need more quality preembreetive pitching" ~monkeyball

by OptimistPrime on Jul 24, 2008 10:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I see that hairstyle making a comeback

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crushing defeat at hands of foes, check

Fiscal crisis, check
Resentment at outside world, check
Radical restructuring of system, check
Emphasis on youth, check
Invasion of neighboring territories, check

Uh-oh …

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just wait

until the A’s start signing the 94 Scott Hatteberg clones from Brazil.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 24, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

turns out we drafted this Austrian prospect named Schicklgruber ...

... but he used his friend’s birth certificate to claim he was two years younger …

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think with all the money we aren't spending, a FA is the best bet

My problem with people like Garko is that they aren’t likely to ever truly dominate, and it’s hard to imagine winning a WS without one great hitter in there somewhere.

I’d love to see us make a real run at someone like Dunn (instead of Burrell) in Free Agency. If we’re trading, I agree with you that Bay is a great one to target. He may cost less in the off-season because he’ll only have 1 year left on his contract.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 10:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Garko?

I’d much rather try to get either an elite MLB bat, Holliday / Bay, or a young prospect who projects as an elite bat, Fernando Martinez for example, yes by giving up some young pitching depth, than giving up even mid tier prospects for Garko.

Garko’s career OPS+ is 105. His career high is 117. Jack Cust’s OPS+ this year is 122. Garko is not better than Cust offensively. Defensively, Garko is another 1b / DH type. Beane could have easily gotten a Garko type, if he had signed Russ Branyan, instead of Emil Brown. Or Josh Phelps instead of Emil Brown.

Why give up any worthwhile prospects, especially Henry Rodriguez for him? If you’re going to trade worthwhile prospects, you might as well go all in, and get back an elite hitter.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 10:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Holliday is sketchy

His stats away from Coors are far from elite.

The last three years:
Home:.370/.430/.676 HR:59
Road:.281/.343/.466 HR:30

He’s still an upgrade, but I wouldn’t move anything too valuable for him.

"If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something."

by RIPHalsey on Jul 24, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know his road stats

I just don’t put much emphasis on road stats. Also, while his D has nothing to do with whether he’s an elite bat, his D is very very good.

Regardless, the Rockies’ asking price for him is ridonkulous. They asked the Mets for Carlos Beltran and Fernando Martinez. They asked the Angels for Kendrick and Adenhart and either of Santana or Saunders.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the road stats are half his games and we all know what an aberration Coors Field is

The only other place I think even compares to that is Arlington.

If the Rockies are asking for stuff like that, though, they’re not going to get takers for Holliday.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if that's about where he'll top out or not.

Probably in the Coliseum, at least.

Still, Colorado’s asking price is enough for me to give a big “HELL NO!” to a deal for Holliday. With what they’re asking for, you’d think he was the next Pujols no matter where he played.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I’d much rather have Bay, since Pittsburgh is a tough hitting situation too.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the road stats are HALF his games.

By looking at only road stats, you are throwing out HALF the sample.

Why not just look at park adjusted numbers like EQA, OPS+, Batting Runs?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His road stats are going to be much more in line with what you can expect with him...

...when he’s playing for a team that doesn’t have half their games in Coors Field.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most players, no most athletes

perform better at home. If you want to take away the homefield advantage from Holliday, then you need to take away the home field advantage from all the players you’re comparing him to.

At which point, you’ll have thrown away ridiculous amounts of data.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, not really

What you seem to be missing is how great an impact Coors Field has on people who get to play half their seasons in that place. Even with the humidor, it is unlike any other ballpark in the Majors. That is a HUGE factor.

I wouldn’t say anyone who bats in the Coliseum has a big home field advantage by having half their games there, would you? That could almost be the reverse of the Holliday stuff.

I don’t know what the general standard of comparison is, but I would imagine most solid players are within roughly .100 OPS points of their home/away totals, just to throw a number out there. Since we’re talking about Jason Bay in here, let’s take a quick look at him:

2008 Home: .302/.373/.604/.977
2008 Away: .273/.393/.455/.848

2007 Home: .259/.334/.388/.722
2007 Away: .237/.321/.445/.766

2006 Home: .297/.426/.504/.930
2006 Away: .276/.367/.558/.925

2005 Home: .271/.395/.465/.860
2005 Away: .337/.408/.644/1.052

I don’t know what made him so much better on the road in 2005 but Bay’s overall numbers both home and away seem fairly close. That’s the mark of a good, consistent hitter. 2006 was especially close but he had better power numbers on the road. This year, it’s flipped a bit to better home numbers. Overall, that tells me that Bay is someone who can be counted on to give you solid production no matter where he’s playing. At the same time, you could probably expect some time to get used to the American League if he comes over here.

In the end, I’m not throwing out anything Holliday is doing because he performs better at home than on the road. I’m discounting some of what Holliday does at home because of where home is.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get a little tired of hearing about how

“but so-and-so would only OPS .770 playing half their games in Oakland.” EVERY hitter on both teams will suffer drop-offs for this effect. So who cares? A better hitter is a better hitter anywhere – the exact numbers just change.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if Holliday can OPS .950 at Coors,

and that’s “well above league average,” and he can OPS .800 at the Coliseum – and that’s well above league average – is it a bad use of money to pay him as a “well above league average” hitter?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point - that's worth a lot to me

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a very important point

and I’m glad you pointed it out.

Not that the A’s have a snowball’s chance in hell of acquiring Holliday, of course.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but the .950 OPS has to be seen in the context of coors

Holliday’s value is based on however above average for coors Holliday is. So the problem is that the Rockies are demanding what a team would for a .950 OPS hitting player. That price isn’t ok for a coors hitter, but would be ok if that number was attained in a more neutral park. For example, I’d rather have someone who hit .825 OPS in Petco than Holliday. (not that such a person necessarily exists or is available)

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed - the problem is if the Rockies

ask ”.950 OPS” value for Holliday, not if he OPSs .800 with Oakland.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The trade our MLB pitchers then

Our pitcher will get the bump for pitching in Oakland Coliseum, and we can sell them as 3.5 ERA guys instead 4.0 ERA guys, and even out the value bias

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We do. Constantly

And that’s why we got so much value for Blanton

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe that other teams are so ignorant

so as not to be able to factor in park effect when trading for a player. There is a large body of Blanton’s work – almost as large as his body – on the road for his career. And park adjusted stats are not hard to come by.

I’m thinking the Phillies knew exactly what they were trading for, and feel Blanton can win for them if he just reverts back to doing what he did, on average, for the first 3.4 seasons of his 3.6 year career.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buzzkill

I think we got a ton for him (and part of my rationalization is that his ERA looks a lot better than his EqERA even though instinctively the Phillies should have looked at the latter)

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're "discounting" some of what Hollidy does at home

why not use a park adjustment? As opposed to just citing road stats.

And one player, Jason Bay, doesn’t prove anything.

The problem with trying to apply a “general” standard of comparison, or using a specific player like Bay, is that no one has any idea what are the factors that cause differences in home road performances. Furthermore, no one has any clue how much or little different factors affect different players. Some players might benefit more by sleeping on their own beds. Others, not at all.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not useful to discount home stats, even in Coors

because as rfloh is saying, you get a lot more certainty when you DOUBLE your sample size, even if the data is slightly skewed. Especially if you can quantify the amount that the the data would likely be skewed.

So even if Coors has a 10% impact on OPS, the fact that:

1) including Coors stats doubles your sample, and
2) We can quantify, in general, how much impact Coors would have

means that the best thing to do is to include his Coors stats and adjust them accordingly.

by sardonic on Jul 24, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

statistically speaking

your confidence bounds goes down as square root of your sample size. If you double your sample size, you reduce your uncertainty by 30%

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

like, say, Mark Ellis?

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a group

players hit better at home (all parks) than on the road. In the case of a pitchers park like the Coliseum this effect may be masked by the park effect, and in the case of an extreme hitters park like in Colorado it will be enhanced. Also, 3 of the 4 other parks in the NL West are unfavorable to hitters. Using park-adjusted numbers (like OPS+ or EqA) gives a better estimate of how good a hitter is than simply throwing out home numbers and using only road numbers.

Incidentally, for his career, Ellis has hit .258/.336/.409 in the Coliseum and .275/.341/.410 on the road

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 24, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That .001 in slugging has just KILLED us at home.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want splits for pre-Briggs and post-Briggs

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jul 24, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Historically, that' s not true

Players perform better than their Rockie road stats before and after they’re on that team. No one’s really sure why that is. My impression is that hitters make some sort of swing adjustment to play in Colorado and can’t turn it off when they’re on the road.

"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

by achiappanza on Jul 30, 2008 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

need to normalize

I’d believe the “shock value” (pun) of seeing Holiday’s reduced value due to his splits more if I saw this relative to all other players’ home/away splits, including that of just the Rockies’. Without such data, this is unfixed data, and you could just conclude that the guy doesn’t like traveling? (thus he’s in MLB, not the NBA…)

by rollierollieOxenfree on Jul 25, 2008 3:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

I don’t think we need to add 170 more K’s to the lineup. You certainly could not have Dunn and Cust in the same lineup.

I do like the mammoth blasts that he hits

by Trainman on Jul 24, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I see Cust as a ticking collapse candidate. How much longer do you see him being effective?

(expecting “he already sucks” responses)

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If The A's had an offense of all Custs and Dunns

It would set the major league record for runs scored by a large margin. I’d be thrille dto have them both in the same lineup.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the two is DH

and I’ll eat some strikeouts for a .900+ OPS guy any day of the week.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see a Cust - Dunn keystone combo.

Cust vs Crosby…..hmmm….

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd expect Dunn to last a lot longer than Cust as a productive player.

The Adam Jack LF – DH alternator would probably only last through next year. Maybe the year after.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do they compare when you park adjust?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

THINGS MY FATHER DOES!!!!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn 131 Career OPS+, Cust 127

I guess park effects do matter

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's not a team out there

That wouldn’t love to have a Cust & Dunn combo in the middle of their lineup. If you put Dunn in front of Cust, all those solo shots that everyone complains about from Cust turn into 2 run home runs. I’m drooling

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would it take to sign Dunn?

4 years $50MM? I don’t think I’d do that. I would do three years though.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't need..

More guys that just walk or strikeout. I give you that he will hit 35 HR but that’s not exactly what we need. We need to sprinkle in a few High OBP guys with a couple of mashers that can bring them in with one or two speedy guys.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn has a high OBP and a is a masher.

Our speedies of the future are Weeks, Cardenas, Patterson, and Buck. Dunn would be a great asset to the lineup, but he seems like someone who’d decline quickly.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man on 3rd, Less than 2 outs

Dunn & Cust suck in those situations. I think Dunn went 2+ years w/o a Sacrafice Fly.

Cust & Dunn are terrible situation hitters. If you sign Dunn, you gotta get rid of Cust. Too many blackholes in the lineup. Baserunners will never be on the move w/ 2 strikes for fear of the strike ‘em out, throw ‘em out. Station to Station baseball sucks.

by Colorado Fan on Jul 24, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, so assuming you're right (you aren't, BTW, but whatever)

Cust will suck when Dunn hits a triple.

I haven’t looked but I’m going to guess that Adam Dunn is not exactly a triples specialist.

Also, Cust has 9 sac flies in the last 2 seasons.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does Dunn hitting a triple have to do with this?

Both of them can be up in situations Colorado Fan pointed out and they hardly require Dunn tripling to get to that point.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point is,

they’re LESS likely to end up in that situation than your average hitter.

Put those two back to back and the most likely scenarios, by far, for the second guy are either “no one on” or “a guy on first.” Of course, that’s really true for everyone, which is one of the 902374 reasons why obsessing over someone’s performance in narrow situations is a recipe for misevaluating players.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absofragginlutely

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's assuming one or both don't strike out, which is probably more likely.

Not saying I wouldn’t take Dunn here but it’s silly to assume that they’ll both be mashing all the time.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but they get at least 3 attempts a game

4-5 if we stop starting 3 different DFAs

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They don't need to mash all the time

Even mashing every 20 plate appearances would result in a ton of runs if you have a guy in front of you getting on base as much as Dunn does.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

The only real problem is that neither guy should play in the outfield ever.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Bay is definitely my pick as well.

I think, however, that Bay may be gone if the A”s wait till the offseason. There are many teams in the race right now that need to add a bat and Bay’s name is right at the top of many team’s list.

If the A’s are truly interested in him then I think Beane and Littlefield can work something out since they have a past history of making trades.

I would absolutely love to have a Jason Bay in an Oakland A’s uniform. If they do pull off a deal for him then I would imagine it would be with the intention of signing him to a nice extension from his current contract. He’s 27, right handed corner outfielder, and and has plenty of pop in his bat. Always was a fan of his and he would be a perfect fit for the A’s. Billy, get this deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go A’s!!!!!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It would def. make me happy

Bay’s legit, about to peak, etc.

I think as long as we keep Cahill/Anderson I’d be hard to displease with a Bay deal.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine the headlines too:

J. Bay to the East Bay

Say Hey to Bay’s Days playing in the Bay!

etc.

(insert yours here)

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minor problem:

Littlefield isn’t the GM anymore.

Actually, that’s a major problem. If Littlefield was still the GM they could probably get him for like Richie Robnett and Santiago Casilla.

Also: Bay is 29.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

I could havw sworn O read he was still only 27…..thanks for the info. I’d still love to have him here, though.

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Littlefield traded Arthur Rhodes and Mark Redman for the right to pay

Mark Redman, Jonah Bayliss and Chad Blackwell about $8MM. Beane traded them for the right to pay Jason Kendall about $34M. I’d say Littlefield handled that a lot better than Beane.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane on Jason Kendall: "You're gonna love this guy."

Nico to Beane: “Actually, not so much.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hold on there: only grover and I get to say that

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not entirely accurate my friend

We’re the only ones who got to say that before Kendall proved his suckitude.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was how Nico's post seemed predicated to me

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nico wasn't going revisionist

Although it’s easy to interpret it that way. I read it as laced with hindsight.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, hindsight - I was initially pleased

with acquiring Kendall because I only knew him by his stats, which suggested a .300-.330 hitter with a high OBP. Then I saw him hit in Spring Training, 2005, and “didn’t love him” thereafter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The A's came out of that with an LCS appearance and Jerry Blevins

The Pirates came out of it with… more money in the owner’s pocket.

I’m thinking I like Beane on that one.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're saying the $20MM extra spent on Kendall wouldn't be enough to

get someone better than him? Ramon, for example, would have been better and not nearly as expensive. Are you saying the Cubs wanted Kendall so badly that they would only trade Blevins for him and no one else?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make me get rigorous, would you?

The A’s saved $8.75 million on the back side of Mark Redman’s contract. They saved $7.4 million on the back side of Rhodes’s contract.

Kendall cost $28.5 million. More than half of that money was saved off the other two contracts. The per-year cost of the Kendall trade was barely over $4 million.

Ramon Hernandez was not only substantially more expensive than that, his contract was longer… and he wasn’t a free agent in 2005.

Now, the obvious move here would have been not to sign Redman and Rhodes to those ridiculous deals in the first place, but you have to give a guy some credit for crawling out from under bad prior decisions.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please, I'm almost begging here

Do not go down this path. You cannot justify the disaster that was Kendall by pointing to the bloated contracts of Rhodes and Redman.

Beane could have moved both pitchers without having to bring in Kendall, truly saving the A’s millions of dollars.

I wrote a diary on this a couple years back, before your time I believe. Take a gander but stop when you hit the Evil Laugh. Appearently I went a couple paragraphs too far.

Link.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've already read it

It’s been linked before. Sorry, dude. I disagree. It would have required a chain of basically implausible events for the A’s to get out from under those contracts with anything more useful than “most of Jason Kendall.” On top of which, there was no way to predict that Kendall would go blind in his third year here and become utterly useless.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Implausible?

It would have been implausible to trade Rhodes for Lawton?

Link.

It would have been implausible to trade Lawton during the season?

Link.

Link.

Redman and Ishii were comparable SP. You’re telling me the Mets would have had a problem trading their 3rd string C for Mark Redman?

Implausible?

I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

As for not being able to predict Kendall’s downturn, catchers over the age of 30 who had caught as many innings as Kendall had often go downhill fast. There have been studies that have proven this, although I don’t have any of those links handy. Could anyone have foreseen the End of Days scenario we saw last year? Probably not, but the risk was so high that the attempt never should have been made.

And as I showed in my diary, it didn’t have to be made.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your Ahab-like conviction on this subject

has already convinced me that it’s more or less pointless to argue the issue.

I have my opinion, you have yours, and on this subject, never the twain shall meet.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

does that me Starbuck?

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm such a sci-fi geek

My mind went straight to Battlestar Galactica.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, everyone gets to have an opinion

Mine are based in fact while yours (on this subject) run completely contrary to the same facts.

That probably means your opinion on this matter is wrong and if you choose to express this particular opinion in a public forum I will respond by saying you’re wrong.

Now, you’re a smart guy Paul and I really have no interest in going the rounds with you over this topic. So, if you’ve got a logical explanation as to why the whole Rhodes for Lawton/Ship Lawton Elsewhere plan was not something Beane could have managed then now is the time to share it.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just curious, grover,

in your scenario how you would have anticipated the A’s covering the catcher position had they dealt Rhodes for Lawton (and kept Redman, I guess) instead of acquiring Kendall. Is there a particular move you have in mind that the A’s could definitely have done?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Redman gets traded to the NY Mets

in exchange for C Jason Phillips… who completely bombed in 2005. He played so poorly the Dodgers (to whom he was traded for Ishii) released him that December rather then go to arby with him.

And how much did he cost in 2005?

$339K

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then what?

The Jeremy Brown era begins?

I’m genuinely curious about this one. Outbid the Orioles to get Ramon Hernandez back?

Keep in mind, the A’s were only about 10 runs better than the Angels that season. Even a modest downgrade would have presented the very real possibility of missing the playoffs.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paul, the A'd DID miss the play-offs in 2005

But to answer your question… I don’t know. Maybe they go after Ramon, kinda like they re-signed Rickey in 1993 after trading him to Toronto that July. I floated that idea in the diary, mainly because at the time it was the easiest deal I could think of.

What other options were available at the time would require a bit of research. Since you haven’t taken back the “implausible” crack…

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 25, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

grover and I told everyone at the time ...

... that Kendall shouldn’t have killed his father and unknowingly slept with his mother.

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's what happens when you answer

ads on Match.com.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't recall him tearing his eyes out, though....

seems kinda unfair. The other guy had to…

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 25, 2008 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Littlefield is gone I believe

but Bay is the way to go.

Enjoy the game

by DCinWC on Jul 24, 2008 10:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Garko? Ryan Garko?

And you want to give up a bunch of top prospects for him?

The same Garko who is currently hitting .241/.317/.351/.668?

No thanks. I think you are blinded with Garko by something that affects a lot of teams and fans; the thought that Garko has always killed the A’s, therefore he must be a good hitter.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 24, 2008 10:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's get Garko, Polanco, Ibanez, and GA!

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Zonis, that Garko

You just cited the numbers that make him a great acquisition – that’s the value you pay for him. His career numbers are what you get for him. He’s not Jason Bay, but he’s a good hitter. He won’t cost you Cahill or Anderson – which I fear Bay will. All the reasons you don’t like Garko are what make him a typical “Billy Beane acquisition” – you’re thinking Bay, he gets Garko.

I think if any team could make a “blockbuster” (multi player) deal with the A’s it might be Cleveland. Here’s a group of players that I think could potentially help the other team:

Street, Barton, H-Rodriguez, Simmons, Mazzaro, Crosby (fresh start, better defense than J. Peralta)
Garko, J. Peralta (better bat and health in exchange for defensive dropoff), a solid hitting prospect – I haven’t looked at Cleveland’s minor league system enough lately to give a name, but if the right hitting prospect is there I could see a deal happening with 2-3 players dealt from each side.

Maybe it’s Street, Crosby, Mazzaro for Garko, Peralta, and a legitimate hitting prospect. But honestly, with trade ideas I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about – I can come up with the first 70% and have to leave the real particulars to others.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All good points, but we're talking about a hitter that we theoretically want

To be the acnhor of our lineup for the next few years, right?

I think it’s worth to splurge a little more in the FA market or trade market to get somebody who has a better track record than Garko.

I know a Garko-type is more of a possibilty than a Bay-type, but that won’t solve the A’s offensive problems, will it?

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jul 24, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is true - maybe Garko is aiming too low,

in that Holliday is the low end of “real plus hitter” and Garko is a poor-man’s Holliday. Xavier Nady is intruiging in that he is just unreal this year, and pretty solid overall now for his career. Maybe he’s a better example than Garko.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still thin Jason Bay would be good

because he has similar career numbers as Holliday, but playing in Pittsburgh, not Colorado.

And I like your comment lower on the page avout H Rod and Street being the keys instead of Cahill/ Anderson

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I think Nady is a better example than Garko

The fear with him is that this is a career year he’ll never come close to again. Of course, that’s why he’d be cheaper than Bay.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've got a name for you

Matt LaPorta (mmmmmmm, drools)

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simple questions:

What would it take to get Matt Holliday?

And is he that good outside of Coors field?

by oaktownmario on Jul 24, 2008 10:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No, Holliday is not all that special away from Coors

Splits from 2005-2007 show an OPS at home of 1.106 and away it’s .809. SLG at home is .676, away it’s .466. His average and OBP are also nearly .100 points higher at home than on the road, and factoring in how brutal the Coliseum is to offenses I could see the Rockies demanding more than Holliday is really worth with the A’s being left with his road averages in the Coliseum.

So far this season his away splits are a bit higher than normal but still something I’d be very wary of when it comes to giving up too much for him. Any deal for a player like Holliday absolutely must take into account expected decline outside of Coors.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday's road lines, 2004-2008

2004: 240 .287 .367 .654
2005: 256 .313 .416 .729
2006: 280 .333 .485 .819
2007: 301 .374 .485 .860
2008: 301 .400 .459 .859

His 2008 road numbers are not higher than his 2007 numbers. And his road numbers are dragged down by his really poor first 2 years, especially that first season.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simple answers:

Too much, and

Not as good as the player they’d have to pay him like to have any hope of keeping him beyond 2009.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well there is one productive hitter FA who could be cheapish

Jason Giambi and his mustache are unlikely to be re-signed by the Yanks. He would be a good pickup for us and kinda cheap (meaning cheaper than Dunn/Burrell).

But one bat is not enough for us to compete, at least not next year. How about going after Giambi AND Burrell, and have them rotate at DH while the other plays the field. Barton could then become a trade chip to the Braves/the loser of the Teix sweepstakes. If no one gives us a good deal for the kid who still has a bright future, of course we keep him around.

As for Garko, I would target him but as a buy low candidate not as someone to trade HRod for. Barton may be able to outproduce Garko as soon as next year. I really think we should target a guy like Fernando Martinez or Colby Rasmus as well.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't have the magic answer for who that great cleanup hitter can be for the A's, but...

...I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be Ryan Garko. He’s just an average hitter with an OPS under .800 in his brief career, and his power numbers are entirely unimpressive overall.

2007 was a solid year for him but if the A’s could bring in someone like Jason Bay and keep him here, he’d be worth one of those top pitching prospects the A’s have in their system. Maybe not Cahill and/or Anderson, but there could be a combination of others – possibly.

But, counting on Ryan Garko as a cleanup hitter in the Coliseum is just asking for more failure.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1 mang!

I say no to Garko…....bleh!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I shouldn't have mentioned Garko specifically, I guess

The point of the post isn’t “Let’s go out and get Ryan Garko to solve all our hitting problems!!!” It’s that guys like Bay will cost you Cahill/Anderson level players and guys like Burrell just aren’t at the right stage of their career.

So I’m really posing the question – do you think we should let Cahill or Anderson go? (I don’t.) Should we sign an aging veteran? (Usually not a good strategy.) Or…what should we do?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would look at keeping Cahill and Anderson but make everyone else open for...

...discussion if the right player is involved.

That’s my gut feeling right now.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to mention that - maybe the way to get a deal done

with Pittsburgh is to offer Henry Rodriguez and Huston Street. I could see the Pirates yielding on Cahill and Anderson if the conversation included Rodriguez and Street.

If the A’s do that, they NEED to sign Bay to an extension because the key is 2010-2013, not just next season. Might be worth it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is signing Bay to an extension any better than signing Burrell this offseason?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Age, for one thing

Usually cheaper to sign an extension than wait for FA bidding, for another.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bay is one year younger. I'm unclear how much cheaper he'd be than Burrell

Is it really worth giving up top prospects for Bay when Burrell only costs a draft pick?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bay was born on

Sep 20, 1978. Pat the Bat was born on October 20, 1976.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooh I like it. 2011 PECOTA EqA and VORP

Bay - .286, 14.4
Burrell - .295, 10.5

So I guess they see Bay more durable and Burrell a better hitter in a few years. I’m not sure how making Pat a DH would affect this. Of course there’s still a defensive difference.

I’m really liking this free PECOTA. I might get hooked and re-subscribe.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That PECOTA surprises me

Bay is 2 years younger, and his career EQA is BETTER than Burrell’s: 306 to 294.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That projection is coming off Bay's ugly year last year,

so it would presumably be higher now, although so would Burrell’s, but probably to a lesser extent. The defensive difference is pretty big, I think.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 24, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My position with the prospects is that the A's have a position of strength with all their...

...pitchers and they’re going to have to use that strength at some point in the next few years. They have enough pitching prospects to nearly fill out an entire pitching staff and not all of them are going to be in Oakland.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 Nico!

I was thinking H-Rod, Barton. Street, and Buck/ or Crosby for Jason Bay. That seem like more than a fair deal to me. Maybe the Pirates would throw in Jack Wilson in the deal if it invilved Crosby…..hmmmm….........just a thought.

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why does everyone want Bay so much?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a very, very good hitter

who isn’t about to decline due to age or get overpaid on the FA market, or both. There just aren’t too many out there this applies to. A lot of Blake, Garko “slight upgrades” and Teixeira, Burrell “overpay if you want them” options.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

do want to trade for him for 2009 exclusively?

The next contract he gets (after 2009) will include an overpayment for past performance.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'd have to re-sign to get enough value

But we’d be getting early-30s years instead of mid-late 30s years.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

is he magically not going to get a 7 year deal?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would only trade for him if an extension

was planned that would avoid FA altogether. Then you’re basically paying for current performance and offering security as the trade-off for not testing the FA market.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Bay sign less than a six year deal this offseason rather

than go for a five year deal at free agency? Those five years would be his age 31 to 35 seasons. Do the A’s really want to spend something like $80MM for that? If so, do they also want to trade something like Anderson, Mazzaro and Carter for the privilege of first rights to negotiate?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree that he's not about to decline

High strikeout rate plus ages 33-35 (years 3-5 of his next contract) sounds like a likely decliner to me. I wouldn’t want him beyond next year.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mark McGwire & Jose Canseco are available.....

I’m just saying.

Or we can reunite Tejada & Giambi.

by BillMoresi on Jul 24, 2008 10:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why can't we think big?

Our payroll in 2006 was a little over 75M and the team was still turning a profit. Yes our attendance is down, but my guess is that the A’s are receiving more money in revenue sharing and can therefore justify a payroll at around 80M.

Well guess what, after all of these trades, our payroll will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30M going into this year. And we’re still talking about someone like GARKO?!!

Look at the Angels/Red Sox model of success.. they’ve mixed in great veteran players over the years with their homegrown product and have dominated.

We need to do the same. Fielding a team with just promising prospects will get us nowhere. Some will flourish (Sweeney, to an extent Suzuki) while others will not (Barton, Buck). And ownership has a lot of room to add a superstar or even two to make this a really deep team.

Also, if you want to market your product and attract fans you need to give the casual fan and kids a name to cheer for. We need a BIG TIME bopper for the next 4-5 years a la Vlad Guerrero when he signed with the Angels to lead a lineup filled with youth. I’m tired of hearing names like Blake, Garko, etc. When your payroll is 75M, then it’s ok to talk about them, but when your all the way at the bottom, and ownership still refuses to open up their checkbooks, then we have a problem.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 10:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

OK let's explore potential HOFs before or in their primes

Evan Longoria
Alex Rodriguez
Miguel Cabrera
Josh Hamilton
David Wright
Carlos Beltran
Chase Utley
Ryan Braun
Albert Pujols
Jay Bruce
Mark Teixeira (not a HOF for me)

How would we go about getting any of these guys?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, how could we ever get Josh Hamilton?

Gak.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually believe Pujols might be possible in 2012 if he's limited to DH

and Beltran might be possible before that if Minaya gets fired.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By 2012

We’ll have already traded Gonzalez, Sweeney, Smith, Eveland, and Suzuki..

Because they had about 1 or 2 years left on their contracts and they were going to get too expensive.. so we took on a bunch of prospects and started the rebuilding process and the cycle continues.

So even if Pujols were available, we’d pass.. unless he were DFAd and we picked him up for the prorated league minimum.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Gonzalez has a chance to stay long term like Chavez, but I agree

on all those other guys. Fortunately we’ll trade them for three other guys each who will keep the team good. Also Pujols won’t come to Oakland if the team is still drawing 15K per game in a football stadium.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not only silly, it's historically AND contractually inaccurate

In the 2011 season, Kurt Suzuki will be in his first arbitration year, so the same position as Street now. Same with Eveland and Sweeney. Smith will be a Super Two. Gonzalez will be making the league minimum.

As for the historically inaccurate part, the A’s did not trade Giambi, or Tejada, or Isringhausen because the team was highly competitive during their final few years. If the 2012 A’s are highly competitive the team will not be trading away players for “rebuilding”.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzalez will be making league minimum in 2011?

Why wouldn’t he be a “super two” if Smith would? His offensive numbers should be great for a CFer and he’s already rating as a plus defender (if that matters in “super two” computing – does it?). Wouldn’t he be a “super two” if anyone would?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Super Two is only about service time, not performance.
In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

via MLB

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, thanks for the info

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

regarding Carlos Gonzalez specifically,

I don’t know, but i’m certain someone else knows better.

He was called up at the end of May, so he’s going to have more than 86 days of service time by the end of the season. I don’t know if he’ll be in the top 17 percent though.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cutoff

tends to be around 2 years + 130-140 days of service. At least that’s what I few links I found said. Gonzalez will be around 120 days.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 24, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's good to know, thanks!

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cutoff is also something Jamie Kotsay often wears

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

stop it

no fair

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well Lets See

The only one on that list that we can get is Teixeira as a FA but we would have to pay him big money which I also think is not worth it unless it’s something like 5/75 or even 6/90.. plug him at 1st Base, you have a switch hitter who hits for power, good average, excellent defender and is a switch hitter.

But the A’s wont pony up for him no matter what, even though their payroll will be under 30M.

But now imagine if they did sign him as a FA and traded for Bay (giving up 2 of their pitching prospects which we really can do because we have great depth).

You have a lineup of:

C Suzuki
1B Teixeira
2B Weeks/Cardenas/Patterson
SS Crosby (I’d take anyone else; shed his salary and put anyone else in there)
3B Chavez
OF Gonzalez
OF Sweeney
OF Bay
DH Cust/Thomas

With our pitching and that lineup = for sure division contender, borderline WS contender.

And our payroll would jump to say 60M.

Why Not? Any thoughts?

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next year the 2B would be Patterson

Weeks/Cardenas are not that close to MLB ready.

I also don’t think we’d keep Thomas around if we made those moves. He’d cost real money next year b/c the Jays wouldn’t be paying him.

Otherwise, this is a pretty lineup (no doubt about that). I doubt we’ll make a play for Teix, but if Barton doesn’t get his swing back in AAA then there’s a slim chance.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In that scenario we could trade Buck and Barton as part of a Bay package and maybe

keep an extra pitching prospect.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Realistic?

The point is that that lineup and the payroll for fielding such a team is feasible even in Oakland. I kind of think we’re somewhat brainwashed as A’s fans and keep lowering our standards, but when your payroll is laughable at 20 – 30M, we have to expect something better.

And why not make a play for Teixeira – he’s everything and more you want from a 1B. Bay can be had for the right price. Or you can come up with another combination of two really really good hitters.

And all of this will have our payroll below 2006.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's realistic in that the A's can do it if they want to,, but I wouldn't

give Teixeira a mammoth contract, like 7 years $140 MM unless he could play 3B. He just isn’t an all-time great hitter. If it were Albert Pujols sure, but Teixeira seems more like Todd Helton.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Teixeira were Todd Helton

$140M / 7 might be worth it. Helton, into his decline years has a career OPS+ of 141. Teixeira, in his prime, 131. Carlos Delgado, into his decline years, 138.

Teixeira is more like Adam Dunn or Jason Bay.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow. That puts it into perspective.

Although given that Teixeira doesn’t strike out as much as Dunn or Bay, he might have gentler descent.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

10/200 is the word floated in the media

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And would be illegal for any California team

In California, no personal services contract can extend past 7 years.

I have no idea about other states.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quite so

From which I infer that he will not be signed by a California team.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If this situation were to arise

(I dunno, say the Dodgers wanted to sign A-Rod), there’s got to be a way around that, right? Like have the Frank McCourt start a corporation headquartered right on the Arizona side of Blythe or something? This wouldn’t seriously come into effect, would it?

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless the CBA can and does bargain out of it (which I doubt but am not sure of)

Unless McCourt moved the franchise to Arizona (or joined the Federal Government) there’s no way I know of to avoid CA labor laws for work done in CA.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't you make the argument that

a good chunk of their work is done outside the state?

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but not their primary place of business

I think they might have to pay taxes in all the states they work (but my tax knowledge is VERY limited) but that doesn’t effect the rules governing their contract.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I recall correctly,

there was a recent ruling requiring players to pay state taxes based on where the game is actually being played. A player who plays for team in a state without a state tax still has an advantage, it’s now not what it use to be.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 25, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming he also lives in that state, yes.

The requirement to pay state taxes for away games is not new, though states started cracking down on it much more in the 1990s. The “recent ruling” you have in mind is probably one of the many cases on the various details about determining how the source of state income is defined, but the general principle that a state can tax non-residents on work done in the state has been there all along.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jul 25, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like it

But I don’t know if Billy Beane deals with Scot Boras’ clients…....otherwisw I”m all for it man!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Josh Hamilton?

Not going to make it into the HOF. I’d be surprised-ish if he even plays enough seasons.

Not that I wouldn’t like to have him as a hitter.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Braun is pretty iffy as well. A few of those guys are.

Hamilton is among the most talented of the guys on the list though. I wouldn’t be shocked if he made the HOF, or if he OD’ed tomorrow.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or both

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would be extremely surprised if any player who first entered MLB at the age of 26

has ever entered the Hall of Fame before.

Ichiro will break that, but it’s not like he was playing rookie ball until he came over.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Jackie

I’m pretty sure he was past 26, but he played pro ball prior to MLB as well, albeit for a shorter time than Ichiro in Japan. Would actually be interesting to see which HoF’er was the oldest in his rookie season, excluding those who had prior non-MLB pro ball experience.

But, yeah, Hamilton seems like a long-shot to me, unless his story stays as unicornish as it has been this year.

by Eric in Atlanta on Jul 25, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dazzy Vance

He didn’t break in with Brooklyn until he was over 30.

by D O on Jul 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Outside the Box

Would the Rockies consider an big package for Troy Tulowitski

by HuskerFan on Jul 24, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Love that Idea

Tulowitzki is one of the best defenders in baseball.

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Jul 24, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do it via trades like the Twins and Tigers did last year. Candidates include:

Young players stuck behind a veteran:

Mat Gamel - I don’t think the Brewers would really move Hart to CF for him
Fernando Martinez - He’s the Met’s lone big time trading chip
Josh Willingham - He’s stuck behind Jacobs and Gonzalez for some reason
Jeff Clement - Stuck behind Johjima, might improve hitting at another position (3B?)
Reid Brignac - OK not a slugger but a good hitting SS, between Bartlett and Beckham
Chris Davis - OK not behind a veteran but he smells Smoak
Brandon Jones or Gorkys Hernandez - behind Francoeur, Heyward and Schafer (not veterans I know)
Kevin Kouzmanoff - Not that great, but better than what we got. Headley’s the future.

Young players having crappy years:

Lastings Milledge - I don’t think anyone wants him now
Austin Kearns - Was his previous goodness a mirage?
Andy LaRoche - I’ve seen him discussed on AN
Ian Stewart - They might trade Atkins instead. I would.
Brandon Wood - Lotsa K’s but power and decent SS defense
Jose Tabata - Having no power at 19 in AA isn’t a crime
Wladimir Balentien—Not sure what the Mariners are doing

Supplement these with veterans on their last legs—Giambi? Griffey?

Maybe sign a controversial FA—Dunn?

Supplement with Jermaine Dye 2001 types every year or two. It’s too early for Holliday or Bay this year. But next year, there’s:

Adrian Beltre
Jason Bay
Matt Holliday
Brian Giles
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones

OK those last two aren’t very likely. These guys should be cheaper to acquire next year than now.

There’s also minor league veterans like Saenz and Cust, but I don’t know anything about them.

They could also draft guys like Brett Wallace.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 10:56 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Good list...

But Willingham isnt stuck behind anyone, he has played almost every game since he came back from his injury. He definitely is a starter for them.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jul 24, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops sorry about that.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also Stewart should go in the "stuck behind" category, not the "crappy year" one

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fernando Martinez isn't stuck behind a vet

He’s 19 years old at AA. Before anyone says Carlos Beltran and CF, FMart is a CF the way Ryan Garko is the elite middle of the order hitter the A’s want to build around.

Austins Kearns is no longer young. He’s 28 this season; nor is he cheap, $5M this season, $8M next. He’s an overrated bust.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya I didn't have a good category for Fernando.

It’s just that the Mets are impatient to win during the Wright – Reyes – Beltran – Santana years and he could be available earlier than he otherwise would be.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minaya reportedly LOVES him

And has gone on the record saying that he wants to avoid making 4 for 1 trades, and also of giving up FMart.

I could see him giving him up for someone like Bay, a guy who will help now, and next season, and could be signed to a long term deal. I don’t see anyone on the A’s as that calibre of player.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the Mets might consider Cahill or Anderson

if their non-Johan starters were crappy in a year or two.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prospects are a different matter

Since you referenced the Mets desire to win now, I was just referring to the A’s MLB players.

As for the Mets future pitching, who knows? Perez and Martinez are both FAs after this season. OTOH, it’s not as if they have gotten much out of Pedro the past season and a half, and they will have his money off the books, and available to spend. This offseason, with CC, among others, available, is probably going to be one of the best recent offseasons to go FA pitcher buying. Also, Pelfrey is starting to show some progress, after pretty much everyone gave up on him.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya the A's don't match up with the Mets at all really, outside of a three way.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The same has been said of me

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Ryan Zimmerman?

Other than the fact that he appears to be getting steadily worse every season? (Maybe that’s just the effect of playing for the Nationals every year?)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's having a crappy year, but would you trade Cahill and Anderson plus for him?

I don’t think his trade value is all that much lower than a year ago.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garko? Seriously?

The guy has a 688 ops this year and for that you want to trade a good young closer plus our fourth and fifth best arms (one who is an extremely good bet to be a solid mid rotation starter and one who has the potential to be either a front of the line starter if he can harness his controll or a dominating reliever) in the system. It would be interesting to examine a Laporta, Josh Rodriguez a AA shortstop package for some of our minor league talent.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 11:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That just plays into my thinking -

he’s only a .688 OPS guy this year. Buy low, sell high.

Theoretically, if the Indians would do it, would you trade Street, Crosby, Mazzaro for Garko, Peralta, Laporta? Or Street and Mazzaro for Garko and Laporta? Yes please, right? So it’s not that the trade idea is lopsided in the Indians’ favor, it’s that the last piece is critical. That’s the negotiation part.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we (being an AN poster makes me an A now) could have gotten LaPorta, why

not from the Brewers? Why would the Indians trade Sabathia for someone they didn’t really want? He would probably be really expensive—Shapiro would probably ask for the moon and not worry if he didn’t get it.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Street and Mazzaro for Garko and Laporta

I would probably do that deal with the desire to flip garko to a contender. Or screw it just Laporta for street would be much more ameniable to my desires

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Street and Mazzaro or Simmons would be a good fit

for the Indians’ needs, in exchange for Laporta – a closer through at least 2010 and a good pitching prospect. Mazzaro gives more upside, but Simmons is closer and more polished. And if the A’s want to pick up a legit hitter or hitting prospect, and don’t want to part with Cahill/Anderson, then they have to be willing to part with Street and Mazzaro or Simmons.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Id much rather gice up Mazzaro than Simmons

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here - I think Simmons

will be anywhere from a “poor man’s Blanton” to a “good Blanton,” i.e., probably a solid #3 starter who gives you innings and generally gives you a chance to win.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would the Indians trade LaPorta for any man's Blanton?

Right now they see an offense anchored by Sizemore and LaPorta. How is getting Simmons or Mazzaro going to improve them? They’re pretty good at getting Paul Byrds and Kevin Millwoods for the middle of their rotation. They don’t need to give up LaPorta for that. I wouldn’t even do it for Cahill and Simmons. Maybe for Cahill and Anderson plus Donaldson or something.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon - how much are you gonna give up

for a guy whose name is “The Door”?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair point

but is Mazzaro > Garko? I don’t think so. TINSTAPP. I didn’t propose the deal but I really doubt that that deal would be done from an Cle prospective.

Thats why i suggested a trade for Laporta and Rodriguez a masher and a shortstop and was hoping to see who we would need to pull that down.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that Mazzaro is that valuable. It's that Garko isn't at all valuable.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

but to suggest a AA pitching prospect is more valuable than a servicable major leaguer who has some breakout potential is kinda silly.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garko is not serviceable and does not have breakout potential.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mazzaro isn't either

he is a AA prospect who may never make it to the majors and is having a year that far exceeds his production in previous minor league seasons

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't quite agree on Garko

He did have a breakout year last season at age 26, and this year he is part of a team-wide collapse. But he is still young, he has been good before, and whether he’ll bounce back to last year’s form or stay at this year’s form is unknown. But I wouldn’t be so sure it will be the latter and I think he is more than “serviceable,” personally – his OPS as a rookie was .829 and then he surpassed that his second year.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So neither one is likely to make an impact?

Sounds like a fair, but unimportant deal then.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds about right

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But one that COULD work out great

for either team – great for the A’s if Garko reverts to 2007 production, great for the Indians if Mazzaro reaches his potential.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Bay would've been a lot easier to get before Huntington took over

Now, Beane will actually have to give up quality prospects, and I’m not sure that’s a great idea. He’ll be 30 next season, so even if you can give him a long extension, do you? As much as I like JayRayBay, I’m just not sure he’s worth the prospects and the contract extension he’d have to get.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 24, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Teixiera..

He just turned 28. He’s a “big time” bat that we need. He doesn’t break down.

Let’s sign him for 6 years, $110 million. Just do it. Now is the time to get that glue that holds the linup together. It’ll make the hitters before and after him much better.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 24, 2008 11:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Boras is asking for

a contract in the region of $200M / 10.

And he’s not a better hitter than Bay or Adam Dunn.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can't have 10 years

Labor laws prohibit a contract that long in most states.

I think the CA max is 6 or 7

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARod says hi?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Arod did sign a 10 year contract

in NY. So at the very least, Teixeira CAN have a 10 year contract in NY. Where there are 2 very rich teams possibly willing to sign him.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

imagine zito on a 10 yr contract

sometimes, you protect the teams from being too stupid to themselves. Imagine Zito on a 10 year contract… his fastball velocity might be down to 39 mph by the time all was said and done.

by rollierollieOxenfree on Jul 25, 2008 3:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Zito still has a decent chance at a Jamie Moyer end to his career.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moyer has about 95th percentile command,

while Zito has about 30th percentile command. “Senator, you’re no Jamie Moyer.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moyer only became a control artist at 30 years old

BB/BFP

Moyer Age 23-28 - 9.2%
Moyer Age 30 thru today (age 45) - 6.1%
Zito Career thru today (age 30)—9.6%

Moyer was not a good pitcher when I saw him with the Cubs. He went back to the minors at age 29, reinvented himself, and returned as a control artist at age 30.

Zito is durable and smart. Given a chance to reinvent himself he could reduce his walks. Of course he may not be able to do that, but he does have a “decent chance” to do it.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess - Moyer is kind of a "freak of nature"

in his late development, ability to thrive with really two pitches (one of which is a below-average fastball), and tremendous “staying power” into his mid-40s.

Whereas Zito is just kind of a freak.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Way

There’s no way he gets $200 – not even close. I think he can be had for 6/108. Or in the A’s case, 7/126.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carlos Lee signed

a 6 year $100M contract in 2007. Lee is worse player than Teixeira. Even if you disregard inflation, Lee was 31 at the time, Teixeira will be 29.

There are a whole bunch of teams that could be potentially looking for a 1b next season. Off the top of my head: Mets, Yanks, Mariners, Giants. All rich teams with money to spend.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can easily see the Yankees or Mets signing him for 7/$140

or even 8/$160 like Manny got.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the problem with bidding for FAs -

It only takes one team to drive up the price. Boras is the agent and the Yankees want a 1Bman. You can do the Math from there.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teixeira isn't nearly as good a hitter as Manny,

but he’s the best available FA in a year when the Mets and Yankees both need a 1B. Maybe the Angels would be interested too. He’s almost certain to be a bad deal.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude!

Boras is out of his fucking mind!!!!!!!!! Guys like him are bad for baseball and I hope his “smart” clients fire him just like A-Rod did. That was the best thing Alex Rodriguez ever did for his career.

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane's history

Beane hasn’t exactly lit it up when signing contracts for FAs. Chavey, Dye, Kotsay, Rhodes, Loiza.

I think that Anderson and Cahill have to be untouchable, and possibly Gio as well. I’d be willing to part with Eveland or Smith – eventhough I like them both – and give it some MLB qualified talent to sweeten the pot.

Well, I suggest we shoot for:

Bay
Naday
LaPortra
Upton

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jul 24, 2008 11:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe Votto as well

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jul 24, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently they have interest in Street -

Is there any deal that doesn’t include Cahill or Anderson that could land Votto? If so, what do folks think it might be?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but they just signed Cordero

to a four-year, $46 million contract in November?

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

and they’ve had a weird reliever fetish for a few years now….

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upton, what the hell are you talking about?

Upton is in a contest with A’Rod to see who can sign the biggest contract ever

by HarbirD on Jul 24, 2008 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tex, Bay, Burrell

Tex will sign for six years and 120 million at least. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that, even for a .900 OPS at first base.

If Carlos Lee got a 100 million, Burrell will get as much or more, thanks to inflation. Can Burrell hit at a dominant level in the AL? A few years ago his current contract looked a horrible mistake and he was sputtering badly – and that was in the NL and a hitter’s haven. Bay is also a better athlete than he is, so I think Bay would age better.

To me Bay is the most attractive of the three because he meets a lot of criteria: LF, decent defender, hits righty, but best of all…maybe he gives the team a chance to win in ‘09.

The pessimistic thought is that Bay won’t hit as well in the AL, which is very possible. Look at MCab.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The pessimistic thought

Is that no one will hit will in Oakland …EVER.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but the special ones will

Citing Giambi, Jason and Tejada, Miguel.

That’s why I don’t think we should focus on marginal upgrades (i.e. the Garko types) but rather the super-stars (Bay/Dunn/etc.)

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Bay and Dunn are superstars, what are Pujols and A-Rod?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

A-Rod is someone with a real chance at being the best hitter in MLB history (stats-wise). Pujols is always in the discussion for #1 pick in fantasy leagues.

They’re obviously superstars, but that doesn’t mean that Dunn/Bay aren’t also in that category.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod

isn’t even really close to the best hitter in MLB history. He’s around 40th on the career OPS+ list. Bonds is 3rd, Pujols 9th. Other active players ahead of him in that category are Thomas, Manny Ramirez, and Thome.

But f you’re talking about overall value, including defense, then he may be one of the 10 or so best position players of all time.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 24, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Has a chance to be"

If he keeps on keeping on he’ll have the most HR ever, along with great D and an OPS+ north of 150.

I don’t know that he’ll ever be Bonds (in part because he’ll definitely never get as many IBB), but he also is less likely to roid.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow, I doubt A-Rod's hands are entirely clean

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe, Maybe not

But it’s FAR less likely than that Bonds roided. He’s one of very few that I feel certain did. In the abstract I think a ton of people did, but there are few specific cases where the evidence is worth a damn. Bonds is one of those.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect A-Rod is a compulsive hand-washer,

so his hands may be entirely clean.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His lips remain purple.

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

We need an elite hitter. The funny thing is that if we would have re-signed Giambi, thats exactly what we wouldn’t have got.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair point

But he had all kinds of roid/odd health issues. Tejada would have been one.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hindsight is 20/20

At the time Giambi & Tejada both looked like elite hitters in the making.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

So all you can go with is what you see. Chavez looked like one too.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My question, nevermoor - basically the true premise of the post - is

are you advocating the A’s part with Cahill/Anderson to go ahead and get Bay (rather than someone less awesome or less sure a thing)? Or how do you propose the A’s land what they need?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say we toss Eveland or Smith + Street or something

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jul 24, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

An especially interesting question there

is whether other teams and I see Smith and Eveland the same or differently. I would love to move Eveland but hang onto Smith – maybe other teams feel the same way or maybe Eveland is the one they like better. If so, MOVE HIM!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Mets are offering Fernando Martinez plus

and the Dodgers LaRoche and Kuo plus (maybe throw in Jack Wilson and Hu)
and the Rays Brignac plus something good
and the Angels Adenhart and Wood and something good

why the heck would the Pirates trade Bay for anything less than Cahll and Anderson plus?

Not that any of those teams are offering those players, but I’d expect the deals to be something along those lines

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here, and if I'm the A's I say "No way."

That was kind of the point of this post. If you say “No” to that, and you don’t want to invest too much money in 30s free agents who will soon decline and disappoint, and Garko isn’t good enough and Nady’s just having a career year…

...Then how should Beane solve the problem?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At some point you have to make a leap of faith

You have to pick the guy you think will hold it together, and say “OK, I know we’re objectively overpaying for this guy, but I think he’s the one.” And offer 4/70 for Dunn or Burrell. Or trade for Bay.

When the team does that, I would personally much prefer that they did it with money rather than prospects. Hence my advocacy of Burrell. I’d much rather give Beane a great farm system and a $50 million payroll (after Burrell) than a cruddy farm system and a $70 million payroll.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If not Tex... then Burrell...

The guy flat out hits.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 24, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

And you know what? Thats exactly the type of leaps that the A’s have made in the past. Dye, Kendall, Chavez and to a lesser extent Damon & Guillen. Those guys were all leaps of faith and the A’s got burned on them. To a certain extent the A’s have just been very unlucky when it comes to offense panning out. They also have been pretty bad at developing and drafting offensive talent.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's a reasonable way to go

And I certainly don’t think we should be trading for Bay at the deadline. In the offseason, though, you have to think that Bay (if not traded) will be worth less b/c he only has one year of service time and there are other great outfield options.

If Bay goes in the next couple weeks, then we start obsessing over someone else (Dunn, in my case).

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that the deal should be made in the off-season

Not only is the player’s value lower, but also you get to see who does and doesn’t blow out a knee in August and September before deciding on whom to (literally) bank.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true, but ...

... waiting until then also gives Duke’s hip/back the opportunity to go south again, and Street’s elbow the chance to schedule an appointment with Dr James Andrews.

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 24, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Pirates def. wouldn't want Duke

And I’m not sure they’d value Street as much as prospects.

I have no problem trading Duke/Street for the right deal now, just saying there’s no reason to acquire Bay for this season.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the mets are not giving up jesus fernando martinez

by jhroac02 on Jul 24, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

They need to win something with Reyes – Beltran – Wright – Santana this year. The future of Minaya is at stake!

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

If we were prepared to extend Bay I would trade one of them for him. If we weren’t, then no.

We have plenty of pitching prospects (and 4 young SP in our ‘09 rotation – Gallagher/Smith/Eveland/Gio) so I don’t mind taking one off the top. They could both be great someday pretty soon, but Bay is a great hitter, and I think we can contend in 2009.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Bay really all that great?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Sexy stats in a pitching-friendly (although NL) park. He’s the real deal.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A career OPS+ of 131 is good but not arousal material for me.

As a point of reference Cust is at 127.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's skewed low because of his 2007 issues

He’s more a 140. Either way, I think it’s pretty sexy.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did 2007 not count?

The Red Sox and Rockies are gonna be pissed.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was injured in 2007

He’s not injured now.

Makes a difference.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shouldn't he be penalized for bad health?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but not by as much as his numbers from that season imply

because he appears to be fully healthy right now.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"The special ones"

Were both taking steroids then.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

And so were a huge proportion of MLB players. Including the pitchers those two faced.

Unless you want to throw out all stats from that era, they have to be open to discussion. The point is, very few players can be productive in Oakland. Giambi/Tejada could, Damon (for example) couldn’t.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

is this another area

where life for the A’s would change dramatically if we built a new park?

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Low cost alternatives

I still think there’s an outside shot that Ryan Raburn (blocked in Det.) and Nelson Cruz (Tex AAA) can become .800 OPS major league hitters. Both hit right-handed.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess that's where I thought of Garko

I believe he can OPS around .800 over the next 4 seasons (I think his true ability lies somewhere between 2007 and 2008, but closer to 2007), and he could be acquired on the pretty cheap. If we’re talking about “buy low/ possible hidden treasures” that aren’t star quality, I’d put Garko right in the conversation. If we’re talking about guys you get psyched over, then Bay’s still probably the best bet.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that this isn't fun but...

I enjoy dreaming up trade or FA scenarios as much as the next but I don’t really see beane adding an impact bat anytime before all-star break 09, if it all. we’ve seen that this team is capable of winning with mediocre hitting and excellent pitching, so besides a small FA acquisition or two in the offseason, i think beane will hoping for better years from those who are struggling (and theres lots) to hold the offense together. if they can’t, perhaps beane will make a move at the break, when hopefully some of our elite prospects have continued to develop and will bring back even more in a trade

by chipper1001 on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't rule out Dunn

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently Naday's asking price is down - SI.com
Pirates lower asking price for Nady
The word is that the asking price for Pirates outfielder Xavier Nady has “loosened’’ a tad, and that Pittsburgh seems more interested than before in trading him. The Pirates were said a couple weeks ago by the New York Post to be seeking “two top prospects’’ for Nady, who’s having a big year (12 HRs, 56 RBIs, .327), but that seems to have come down a tad. The Rays, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Diamondbacks and Cardinals are among the teams to have inquired about one or more of the Pirates’ star outfielders. Several teams are seeking a righthanded bat, making Jason Bay and Nady especially desirable. (SI.com)

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jul 24, 2008 11:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Grab him!

Limit the conversation about pitchers to Simmons, Mazzaro, and Street and make it happen!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nady's having a career year.

His career OPS+ is 108. He’s not a great fielder. He’s a FA after 2009. I wouldn’t trade any of those guys for him.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 24, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting Nady in LF puts Cust at DH,

which is an upgrade – an OF of Nady, Gonzalez, R. Sweeney, Cunningham, and Murton should be plenty good defensively and should hit LHP and RHP very well. Personally, I’d trade one of those three for Nady if I believed he could OPS .800 or better, as an A, for the next three years. That’s the question, though…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Nady any better than Murton, considering age, service time and defense?

If the answer is yes, who in the A’s system is worth that difference? I personally don’t think Nady’s an upgrade on Murton even without the service time and age issues.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nady does have a better track record,

though he’s also had more opportunity/regular playing time. Nady has OPSed .790 or better three seasons in a row, and his OPS has increased each season. And four years ago, his OPS was .760 in San Diego, which is an extreme pitcher’s park, correct? That’s pretty damn solid over a four-year period.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's also 29 and Murton's AB's mostly came at 23-24-25

Career OPS+

Nady – 108
Murton – 102

If age curves mean anything, Murton should be going into his prime and Nady will never again be better than the last 3 years or so.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theoretically, yes

In practice, Murton appears to have peaked three years ago.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you think Nady's a significantly better bet?

Someone you’d trade say Simmons and Carignan for if you already had Murton?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, but that's because I think Nady's year is a fluke

I don’t think either of them is actually very good.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton

had a career high home run / flyball rate of 22.3% in 2005 in MLB. That is elite star slugger territory. He’s never come close to being able to reproduce that kind of power in subsequent years. 12.8% in 2006, 10.9% in 2007, no HRs this year.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 25, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right. Power isn't Murton's strong suit.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Billy!!!!!!!

Snag one of those mofo’s before someone else does!!!!!

Yeesh!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, so

Two top prospects down to one, probably means a top prospect and an average prospect.

Anderson plus Mazzaro for Nady? Not on my watch.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll stand by saying no to any Cahill or Anderson based deals

I think they have a great chance to the A’s #1-#2 starters in 2011-2014.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have a #1 hitter in 2009-2012

Than a #1 starter in 2011-2014. Especially when you discount for probability that the prospect we’re talking about will pan out.

I feel this way for all the reasons that Hamilton for Volquez was a good deal for Texas plus the discount of Cahill/Anderson being further away than Volquez, minus the fact that Bay is more expensive than Hamilton.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that Bay, Holliday and Burrell

aren’t likely to be anywhere near as good as they are now in 2011 or 2012. I don’t see us discussing top hitting prospects either. How about Cahill plus for Gamel or some such thing?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no.

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 25, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Id rather have pitching honestly.

The Hamilton for Volquez is an exception. I think that Volquez was a much riskier asset than controlling Hamilton through his prime. The chances that a pitcher never finds his command or colapses is higher than a hitter falling apart. Otherwise I would rather have the shut down #1 pitcher than a slugger.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jul 24, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Cahill/Anderson aren't risky?

Not to put a PT style fine point on this: Why?

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You rang?

Look, I think the key point here, which is somewhat at odds with the tenor of your prior discussion but might make it unnecessary, is that Cahill plus Burrell is >>>>>>>> just Jason Bay.

There’s no reason to just gratuitously give up a great pitching prospect for a minimal upgrade in the quality of your “big bat.”

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably right

But then the real balance is Cahill + Burrell vs. Jason Bay + 1st round draft pick. I do think that just looking at it that way suggests Cahill + Burrell is better (and it may indeed be the better overall option).

You do have to take into account, however, that Burrell will cost FA prices from day one, while Bay only costs $7.5M next year. I have no idea what Burrell’s 09 salary will be, but I feel confident it will be millions more. Those millions could be spent to further improve either the team or the farm system.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

First round draft pick?

People are talking about signing him to a contract extending well into his years of decrepitude here. Burrell is probably just as likely to return a comp pick at the end of that process.

And if they DON’T extend him, well… then it’s not even close.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not what I meant

Unless I’m crazy, signing him away from the Phillies costs us a pick.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the A's are streaking to that bottom 15

it may not be a problem.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, OK

If the team ends up 16th or higher in the draft order, that’s relevant. If not, it’s only a second-rounder.

The way things are going, I’m thinking it’s a second-rounder.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pessimist

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm also not convinced Volquez will continue to excel

I’m pretty sure that if he stays clean and sober, Hamilton will.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be

catastrophic on a lot of levels if he relapsed.

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most addicts do relapse. Here's an exerpt from an article by Buddy T.

“Relapse rates for addictive diseases range from 50 percent for resumption of heavy use to 90 percent for a brief lapse.”

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/relapse/a/blcaron030804.htm

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a foolproof strategy for avoiding relapse -

I never stop!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

{cough}oaktoon{cough}

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I quit 10 years ago

Cold Turkey from booze and 30 vicodin’s a day, along with xanax, valium and the occasional smoking of opium.

I decided when I started throwing up blood it was time to quit. Went to AA for three years.

I watch people drink now and it does not even bother me. My roommate drinks every day and the only thing that bothers me about him is that he gets loud and obnoxious when he drinks hard stuff.

How do I stay clean and never crave anything?

I surrendered and said, “I am fucked, I cannot do this anymore”

No relapses, no thoughts of it because I accepted it and know my limits.

I do not go to AA anymore. I actually only kept going because I met a lot of friends there that I have to this day.

by Trainman on Jul 25, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations.

I’ve never spit up blood, but this morning I coughed up either a liver or a spleen, so maybe it’s time to cut back a little, at least in the morning.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome Trainman!

You’re one of the lucky ones.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

30 vicodins?

i can barely move after about 3 or 4

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was funny when I quit because

three days later, I got feeling back in my hands and feet and my chest.

I took them for two years like that so I numbed everything and that included everything. (LOL)

by Trainman on Jul 25, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's incredible

congrats on kicking the habit, that’s strength

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question

Why do we need to have this bat in 2009? I know the A’s could definitely afford to sign someone to a long term contract right now, but if Jason Bay costs too much and the the next best option is someone like Ryan Garko, why not wait til after 2009?

Or better yet, after 2010? Beane is trying to build a definite contender for 2012 which would also imply that he may want to make a serious run starting in 2011. With Eric Chavez becoming a free agent after 2010 (with the likely assumption the A’s buy out his 2011 option), that seems to be the best time to strike for a new face of the franchise.

And have you seen some of the potential free agents after the 2010 season?

Garrett Atkins
Lance Berkman
Joe Mauer
Alex Rios
Kevin Youkilis

Not to mention Jose Reyes and Albert Pujols will be entering a team option year.

Sure, some of these guys will probably have new contracts by then, but if the best Oakland can get right now is overpaying for Jason Bay or making an offer to a Ryan Garko type player, why not just wait?

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jose Reyes and Albert Pujols entering

a team option year is not worth mentioning. There’s no freaking way either of their teams won’t either have new deals with them by then, or have picked up their options, unless either of them is seriously injured or convicted of some serious crime.

Berkman also has a team option in 2011.

Rios isn’t an FA. He just signed a new deal this season that expires in 2014 with an option in 2015.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good catch on Rios

No thoughts on Atkins? Youkilis? Or just the conceptual idea of waiting til past this offseason?

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Jul 24, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not that excited by Atkins or Youkilis. Certainly not as a lineup anchor.

I like the idea of Mauer if he can stay healthy till his FA date.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't put Atkins in the

Mauer / Berkman / Pujols / Reyes class.

He’s a decent hitter with piss poor D at 3b. If you keep him at 3rd, whatever he gives you with his bat, he’s going to give back with his glove. If you move him to 1b, he would be only average, or even slightly below average. He isn’t young either, 2010 will be his age 30 season.

Youkilis, I’m a bit more conflicted on. He seems to be improving year by year. OTOH, he does have good first halfs; throughout his career, first half numbers of 308 .400 .495 .895, 2nd half numbers of 245 .352 .390 .741, so his numbers might not look so good by the end. He’s not younger than Bay. I’d rather have Bay.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't see the Sox letting Youk go

They’ll re-up him before his contract ends. They love him out there

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps.

If he maintains his current performance this year, it’s possible. If he has his usual 2nd half slump, and drops back to around a 115 OPS+, IMO, it’s very unlikely that they sign him long term. By the time he is an FA, after 2010, Lars Anderson should be ready.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 24, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because if you wait until then..

Your core group of Gonzalez, Sweeney, Suzuki, Smith, Eveland, Devine, etc., will become way too expensive and we all know there’s no way the A’s pony up – so 3 or 4 will be dealt for prospects and those prospects won’t be ready so we’re back to square 1. Unless you want to make a 1 year run for it all in 2011 or 2012 and if it doesn’t work blow it all up again. I’m so frustrated.. =(!

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the A's would have blown up this team if not for the injuries to

Harden, Chavez, Crosby, Street, Gaudin, Buck. The planned core of the 2005-9 teams just hasn’t been healthy. I don’t think they’ll blow up the next team prematurely if it’s successful like the 1999-2004 version was.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It really took two "injury summits"

for the full dismantling to occur. One was this past Winter, when Chavez, Harden, and then even Gaudin, were issues, and the other was when M. Sweeney and Thomas couldn’t bounce back, Chavy ran into a setback, and Harden started throwing 90 instead of 95.

Had Thomas not injured himself, Chavez stayed in the lineup hitting the way he was, Harden looked fully healthy, and the A’s been just 4 games out or so, I don’t believe the Harden/Blanton trades would necessarily have happened.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more point

If Beane really is trying to synchronize a contender with the new ballpark, does anyone else think it might be best to wait until we see how the ballpark plays before giving someone a 5 year, $100M+ deal?

Say we trade for Bay and extend him to a long term deal and then find out that his power stroke doesn’t match the stadium’s power alleys. Might turn out to be a waste. Or I guess they could always sign someone before they break ground and design the dimensions to fit his needs, lol.

"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi

by black beane on Jul 24, 2008 12:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You can reconstruct the dimensions of a ballpark

a lot more easily than you can reconstruct the swing of a Bobby Crosby disappointing hitter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

garko:

I wouldn’t mind seeing him come over in trade but he’s not worth what Cleveland wants right now. Beane knows to not make a desperate move and if he has to wait then he’ll keep waiting.

If the deal requires Oakland sending a top pitching prospect to Cleveland for another Cust like hitter then I don’t see Beane going for it.

Nico is right that in regards that this is totally a typical B.Beane move while we all expect Bay. Bay’s asking price is too much and not worth all the bucks !!!!

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 24, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you think Cleveland is asking a lot for Garko right now?

I would think his value was at an all-time low. They have hitting when Sizemore, V. Martinez, and Hafner are all healthy, but post-Sabathia they need to reinforce their pitching. Would they not be interested in landing Simmons? Would they not jump at the chance to add Street in exchange for Garko and … (one other player both teams can agree upon)?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they would love to add:

the pitching services of Street and Simmons, but is that too much (both included) for us to part with?

I just think if his value is low then we should be tight in parting with as least prospects as it would take because we need another two hitters on top of adding Garko.

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 24, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't trade Street and Simmons for Garko straight up (NO WAY!),

but I would trade them for Garko and a second player who really filled an A’s need. That could be a legitimate hitting prospect, a good AA-AAA SS or 3B prospect (if such exists), or another legitimate pitching prospect that could pave the way for the trade that lands us the holier grail (be it Bay or Holliday, a young “hitting stud” prospect, or whomever).

How about Street, Simmons, and Crosby for Garko and Jhonny Peralta? Just having fun with irresponsible trade ideas, here.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You must really love Garko

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't love him, but I do think

he is a solid hitter with a decent glove and a healthy combination of patience and RBI ability, who is still fairly young (27) and hits right-handed, and won’t cost Cahill or Anderson – and there just aren’t too many out there that match all that.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am in favor!

+1

A new start for all parties involved.

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 24, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jhonny Peralta is a pretend shortstop

He’s really bad defensively.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know - I've been amazed sometimes at how bad he is

But who’s to say we won’t need a 3Bman or 2Bman. And I’m to say Crosby sucks and at least Peralta can hit and stays healthy. But yeah, he is a bad SS.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby's gone after 2009. I've got the days marked on my calendar.

We may be stuck with Peralta longer than that, and he doesn’t hit well enough to be a average defensive 3B.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And his mother is clearly dyslexic

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

without doubt.

Perhaps it’s because she spent so much time drinking at the 8-Ball in Petaluma Cotati.

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 24, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jhonny Pherhalta

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trading Prospects

Given how the Coliseum inflates pitchers’ numbers, why not allow them to come up, win status as legit MLB starters, and then trade them. For example, instead of trading Gio now, wait for him to come up, gain a little MLB experience, and get that much more value? Or, another example, let Gallagher get hot for the rest of the season, and then trade him?

I guess what I’m saying is that Beane has always traded his MLB starters, not his prospects. We’re all assuming that when the time to acquire a stud hitter comes, we’ll pay from our wealth of SP prospects. But maybe, Beane is going to be patient, and wait till we have a surplus of Big League starters, and then trade.

I’m hoping for that one, given how often I’ve seen the coliseum make pitchers look good.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 1:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that what they did with Hudson, Mulder, Harang, Harden, Haren, Blanton...

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

That’s the point. I’m arguing that Beane will not trade his pitching prospects. He will let them come up.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those guys didn't only pitch well due to park inflated stats, though,

with the possible exception of Blanton, whose home/road splits have always been significant. Hudson, Haren, and Harden have gone on to pitch great for their new teams in their parks and Harang has pitched much better. And all of them happen to have last names that begin with “H”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

The A’s have had legitimately talented blue-chip pitchers. But all of those guys have been traded for FA type purposes. I’m just saying that if you want to convert pitching into some hitters, don’t trade prospects, trade MLB pitchers.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow punctuation

Question marks are seriously off. My bad.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 1:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd Give Up Two..

I’d personally give up two pitching prospects not named Gio, Trevor, or Brett for Jason Bay. James Simmons, V. Mazzaro and Travis Buck for Jason Bay and sign him to an extension.

First, the A’s can only utilize so many young pitchers, and assuming Duke leaves one way or another, by 2010 we’re still looking at : Cahill, Anderson, G. Gonzalez, Smith, Eveland AND H. Rodriguez.. A surplus of pitching is a good thing only when its used to benefit other areas of the team. If you can land a bat without giving up Cahill, Anderson or Gio, I say do it, like Nico said, I’d utilize Henry Rodriguez as the focal point of that trade or send them Eveland in place of Mazzaro if thats what it required.

Second, I much prefer Jason Bay to Pat Burrell, even though I live in Philly and have actually met Pat the Bat several times…

A quick aside, in my and several others opinion the reason for Burrells semi-resurgance over the past 2 years is 1) trading of his friend Jason Michaels and 2) Him getting married, which wouldnt have happened without #1 and him not staying out till 3am drunk in Philly, often times before a day game as if he was me..

Anyways.. from what I see of Burrell his swing is already pretty long, and his defense, although not as atrocious as others think, will most likely decline at a lot faster rate than that of Bay. Plus the way Burrell often slumps, I think the A’s need a more consistent hitter to “anchor” their lineup. I’d be very surprised if, as previously suggested Burrell got anywhere near $100 million… I see about 4 years $50 million… I don’t know Rowands contract off hand, but I’d fully expect Burrell to get less.

Lastly, I, like Nico would prefer someone who doesn’t have to be overpaid, who isnt almost 30, and who wouldn’t cost a top prospect, but at the end of the day, I’m not impressed with Ryan Garko, nor am I with Nelson Cruz, etc. If there is that TYPE of hitter who may be undervalued by his team but might be able to produce, ala D. Ortiz a few years ago, I’m all for it, but I don’t know who those guys are or if they even exist.

And Lastly again, I’ll take Matt Holliday any day of the week, as long as the A’s can sign him.

(and im not gonna spell/grammar check this post.. so there!)

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 24, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For Bay, I was wondering if Street might appeal to them,

as a closer under contract for two more seasons, along with Buck (a “buy low” OFer to replace Bay), and a “PPNNGTOB” (pitching prospect not named Gio, Trevor, or Brett) – would that be, Simmons? Mazzaro? Both? ... Henry Rodriguez? (gulp)

Think there’s a fair deal there somewhere?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I want to send them Eveland and Emil Brown

:-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine. You drive a hard bargain.

But I’ll only do that if Bay will sign a 5 year, 40 million dollar extension.

by mikev on Jul 24, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

8 Million Dollars?!?!?!

All Bay does is catch hit and throw? How can that be worth 8 Million Dollars???!?

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make them take Emil Brown

or no deal.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bay has his share of strikeouts as well.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meanwhile, Brooks Conrad has struck out

waaaay fewer times than Bay has. Ergo, Conrad is better.

Conrad for Bay, but they have to throw in Nady!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya and he's gotten better in the past four years - 1 K per 4.7 PA

I may need to modify my views. Now I need to get to where I think he’s worth trading a prospect for and signing to a five year deal.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1 per 5.3 PA this year so far, too

2007 was just bad for him all around.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 25, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Troy Glaus

The Cardinals currently have Glaus under contract through 2009, I think. Also, St. Louis seems pretty happy with his performance thus far, so I doubt he’ll be readily available for Oakland.

It’d be interesting, however, if there was the possibility of Oakland acquiring Glaus this off-season. Scott Rolen has a relatively poor injury record in the last couple of years and a declining peformance like Eric Chavez….

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 24, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Risk Aversion and Henry Rodriguez

Nico says: Henry Rodriguez, a guy whose tremendous upside makes him incredibly appealing to teams but with whom the A’s, thanks to the depth of having Cahill and Anderson, could afford to part

This logic seems backwards. Depth allows a team to take on additional risk!
The A’s can afford to take a chance on Henry Rodriguez’s upside BECAUSE we have such pitching depth.
The A’s should keep Rodriguez and deal a less risky prospect, in hopes that a team with less pitching depth than ours would greater value a more-reliable prospect. If Rodriguez flames out, the A’s will still have great pitching depth. If he fulfills his potential, the A’s staff will be even better. I.e., the situation with Rodriguez is upside with little downside, whereas keeping a lower-ceiling lower-risk prospect (Italiano/Mazarro/Simmons?) has less upside and equal downside for the A’s.

by Stussy on Jul 24, 2008 2:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know the A's are trying to groom H-Rod as a starter but I would love to see him closing games for the A's at some point.

If they’re able to keep enough other starting pitchers to hold down that particular fort, I really like the idea of H-Rod coming into the 9th with the ability to blow hitters away and go to other pitches if he has to, which is a strong benefit to him starting now. As hard as he throws, location is going to be the key for him.

I just like a hard-throwing closer much more than someone with slower stuff, especially if you NEED to miss bats.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closers don't need to miss bats

If a guy was a specialist who came in when the other team had RISP already out there, he would need to miss bats.

Closers just need to get out of the inning successfully. The only thing that matters is the overall effectiveness of the pitcher. Obviously pitchers with high K rates tend to be disproportionately effective as pitchers, but JUST having a high K rate or a 99 MPH fastball is not sufficient, and there’s no reason a guy can’t be a good closer if he doesn’t.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

but small-market teams can’t afford to pay extra (“pay” in this sense including opportunity cost) for style points.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you strike a pitcher from the starting role

Unless you have to. Good reasons to make a guy a closer: 1) he can’t get through the lineup more than 2 times consistentlym 2) he only has 1 plus pitch, or 3) has been conditioned for relief throughout his career.

Throwing 100 mph is not a good reason. Fun to watch? Yes. Good baseball decision? No. If he can start let him give you 200 inning per year instead of 100

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Stussy. I wouldn't trade Henry unless a team offered something

equivalent to what we’d want for Cahill. He could turn into Bob Feller or something.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, Bob Feller isn't all that good any more

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK then Rich Harden

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Mark Prior.

Or Kyle Farnsworth. Or Todd van Poppel. Or Roger Clemens.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right his upside is stratospheric but the probably of reaching it is questionable.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's ridiculous

There is no way that Rodriguez and Cahill are remotely comparable prospects. Cahill will be a consensus top 25 player at season’s end. Rodriguez will probably not make many top 100s.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right. They're not likely to get a lot for Rodriguez.

That’s why I’d rather keep him and see what he turns in to. His upside is higher than Cahill’s. I’m thinking Bob Feller for Rodriguez, Brandon Webb for Cahill.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree with that statement

I think Cahill has a far higher upside because he actually knows how to throw pitches in the strike zone, has a secondary pitch or two, isn’t going to end up in the pen, etc.

As I’ve said before, I don’t think command is nearly as “teachable” as most people seem to think it is.

Side comment: OK, I’m looking at Feller’s B-Ref page. Why is this guy in the Hall of Fame? The guy was like a decent #2 starter for a long time. That’s HOF worthy? His K/BB ratio is terrible. So maybe it is an apt comparison, since Webb is a genuine #1 starter and Feller was a decent #2 with crappy command.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Feller

Look again. He was the perennial leader in innings pitched, strikeouts and wins, and was top 10 in the league in most pitching categories (including ERA and K/BB) every year from 1938-1941 and 1946-1951 – he missed most of 1942-1945 due to the war. He’s a clear inner-circle HOFer.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 25, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

You have to look at stats within their era. It was harder to get strikeouts when you had to save yourself to go 9 innings and there weren’t many players swinging from their heels all the time.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless

If you told me I could have one of the two of them right now for 7 years of cost-controlled play, a. I’d take Webb, and b. it’s not even close. One of them has an ERA+ of 122. The other has an ERA+ of 144. Boys, that’s a blowout.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're kidding right? OK I'll bite.

Best 1000 IP of seasons - Feller 1050 IP at 155 ERA+
Webb 1000 IP of seasons - Webb 999 IP at 149 ERA+

Best 2000 IP of seasons - Feller 2049 IP at 148 ERA+
Best 2000 IP of seasons - Webb 1436 IP at 144 ERA+

Best 3000 IP of seasons—Feller 3077 IP at 142 ERA+

Webb’s 1000 IP peak is lower. To meet Feller’s 2049 IP ERA+ he’d have to pitch 821 innings at about a 154 ERA+. To meet Feller’s 3000 IP ERA+, he’d have to pitch an additional 1028 innings at about a 133 ERA+.

He might be better than Bob Feller, but he’s got a long long way to go to get there.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't get to cherrypick a player's peak years

That’s preposterous. The number of players for whom the cost-control period happens to exactly match their peak as a player is tiny.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course you take their "peak" years

Unless you’re arguing that Feller is a crappy pitcher because he wasn’t as good in his mid-to-late 30s (while conveniently omitting the fact that Webb hasn’t pitched in his 30s at all). “Cherrypicking” someone’s best 3000 IP is hardly cheating, especially since Webb will almost certainly not throw 3000 IP.

What Waddell is saying is that Feller had a better peak than Webb has had, as well as a (much) longer successful career. If I’m picking one for seven cost controlled years in today’s environment, I’m hoping for 1400 IP. Clearly you’d rather have Feller’s peak for that than Webb’s peak. If I’m building a franchise and want someone’s full career, I’d rather have 3000 IP at a 142 ERA+ than whatever Webb ends up posting.

Simply scrolling down to their career ERA+ to make an argument is a far worse way of comparing someone with an 18 year career to someone in the middle of career who has only pitched in 6 seasons.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They both suck compared to Hoss Radbourne

Didn’t he win around 60 games/year? You could usually count on him for two complete game wins if you had a double-header. Now THAT’S a pitcher, yeah huh tell you wot!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

59 Wins in 1884 (205 ERA+)

But then he was probably juicing that year.

by nevermoor on Jul 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear Cocacola

had some interesting ingredients in those days…

Imagine waking up at 2 a,m. and thinking of Bobby on Greyhound somewhere in the Texas wastelands..."Does your little iddy biddy back hurt, Bobby?! Does it, you SOB?!" -Alox

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 26, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Feller had a "better peak" because he was pitching against a lot of hitters

who, by modern standards, couldn’t hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Which is my point. He was not actually a particularly good pitcher, and if Henry Rodriguez pitches like he did, he will give up a hell of a lot more runs than Cahill will if he pitches like Webb.

I guess I need to question what the basis for this comparison is. Is it that Rodriguez pitches in a manner reminiscent of Bob Feller, or something else? If it is “pitches like Feller,” I’d bet odds of ten to one that he will not have a career like Feller. Pitchers now are better than pitchers were back then, and I don’t think Feller today would even be a consistent All-Star.

I think the comp is pretty misleading anyway, because of the era difference. A better one would probably be Joel Zumaya, who has had his moments but hasn’t really emerged as a consistent superstar.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I forgot to remove Feller's war credit

Without it:

Best 1000 IP of seasons - Feller 1050 IP at 155 ERA+
Best 1000 IP of seasons - Webb 999 IP at 149 ERA+

Best 1500 IP of seasons - Feller 1498 IP at 147 ERA+
Best 1500 IP of seasons - Webb 1436 IP at 144 ERA+

Best 2000 IP of seasons—Feller 2088 IP at 140 ERA+
Webb would have to pitch 652 innings at 140 ERA+ to match

Best 3000 IP of seasons— Feller 3118 IP at 130 ERA+
Webb would have to pitch 1030 inning more at 114 ERA+

The era advantages:

Webb—emphasis on pitcher health (no overuse), better medical and conditioning techniques, didn’t miss 4 prime seasons for war

Feller - worse lineups with nearly all white Americans - Cleveland was the first AL team to integrate to any degree

Feller still wins for me but it’s closer without the war credit.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, Zumaya's a good comp, but it's not Henry's upside

You could also say Cahill’s like Cory Lidle, but that’s not his upside either.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, you tell ME a modern pitcher that you think is his upside

As far as I can tell, you’re basing your notions of upside on the fact that he has a 100 MPH fastball and can fill in the details later. Well, “later” is starting to roll around and he hasn’t done it yet. Keep in mind, Zumaya used to be a starter too—and his numbers, at younger ages than Rodriguez, are significantly superior.

Judging by what BA thinks are the necessary ingredients for being an ace starter (2 plus pitches, a third average pitch, good command and good makeup), not only is he not ace material at this point, he’s not even close. Cahill and Anderson ARE close. Each of them is exhibiting all of those characteristics in AA. That is why they are substantially superior (thus, more valuable) prospects.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you, PT, but I also think

Henry Rodriguez’ trade value would exceed his objective worth. Scouts/teams drool over “velocity” / “electric arm” more than they should. Beane could potentially take advantage of that, hanging onto Cahill and Anderson and including H-Rod in a deal to land that coveted bat.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but...

Tremendous pitching depth puts the A’s in the best position to take a chance on the risk of Rodriguez NOT fulfilling his potential; the best position in all of baseball, arguably. Additionally, we have less to gain from merely average pitching prospects than the average pitching-starved team.
1+1=2 it doesn’t make sense to plan on dealing Rodriguez, unless you think that he is overrated by other organizations, but I don’t think that’s what you are arguing.

Advocating for trading Rodriguez comes from a risk-averse mindset, of trying to get talent while giving as little as possible in return.
Right now the A’s are rightly taking the opposite strategy: trading what we have for as much as we can get; not giving up as little as possible to make a small improvement.

by Stussy on Jul 25, 2008 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

it just struck me that you did say that Rodriguez is overrated by other teams’ scouts. Fair enough, but that argument for his trading still has to be balanced against the fact that the A’s are a better fit for Rodriguez’s risk/reward than hardly any other team

by Stussy on Jul 25, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to use Sandy Koufax as my comp but he's lefthanded

Nolan Ryan is another example but he pitched for 47 years. Henry probably won’t.

The point is that if Henry’s not worth much in trade, and he has a massive upside, then isn’t there more to be gained by keeping him, even though the odds of breakout are low. I wouldn’t count on him as a future rotation cog or anything, but I’d feel mighty stupid if I traded him for Jim Fregosi or some such mediocrity and he turned into an all-time great.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about Adrian onzalez

The Pads are having a terrible year. Wonder if they want to keep him long term. He’s signed through 2010, with club option 2011.

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 2:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

They would definitly ask

For Cahil, Anderson and another bat for him in return

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

most definitely

The truth is there are a ton of GMs out there who would love to have a guy like Barton in their system. He’s only about 4 months removed from one of the top 30 prospects in all of baseball. I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable giving him up right now just because he’s had a few bad months to start what will probably be a long major league career.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barton is not only young, but I think he's probably immature

I remember hearing, when the A’s acquired him, that he wasn’t all that coachable as a 19-year old, and this recent incident does not smack of Unicorn-level maturity. I think it’s possible that his disappointing season relates to being in the majors at 22, not being very mature, and never having really struggled before. Which suggests he could be an outstanding 24-year old player.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Especially since it came so easily for him late last year. It’s gotta be a pretty tough thing to dominate forever (including in MLB) then have to deal with a league that’s adjusted.

He’ll do it, and his time in AAA may just help get his swagger back.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I imagine alot of 19 year olds just drafted

Are a little uncoachable. You go from a team in HS where you are a man among boys (hell you’re HS coach is probably asking for advice from you) to a situation where some coach is telling you to change your swing because what you’re doing is not going to cut it at this level. I can imagine egos interfering pretty regularly.

by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's probably something to that, but at the same time I think he's mature for his age

At least when it comes to some things baseball-related. When I was out in Albuquerque covering the Triple-A All-Star Game last year I interviewed him and one of the things I asked him about the next day after I’d already typed things up had to do with the hitting streak he had with Sacramento.

He’d talked about some of the pressure that went with maintaining it and I asked him if he’d rather have a series of shorter streaks broken up by an 0-fer here and there and he admitted he would. His reasoning was that it keeps him feeling looser rather than pressing to get a hit just to keep a streak alive, adding that of course you want to get a hit every time you’re up but you don’t need the extra pressure on top of whatever’s already there.

I’ve had a strong feeling that due to his struggles this year he’s been going through a lot of stuff similar to that, except it’s not for a hit to keep a streak going but a hit or two just to do something good.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell!

If the A’s get a reasonable deal for Street, I say make Ziggy the closer until Devine is healthy and read to toake over….or maybe Ziggy makes it easy for everybody and continues to post 00000000’s!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unicorn

seems like a perfect nickname for Barton

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milton Bradley

Has Billy ever made it clear why the heart of the lineup does not include Milton Bradley? Was it money? Attitude? The desire to clear a place for someone else?

by solotar on Jul 24, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, imagine if we still had Bradley

Bradley, CarGon, Sweeney, that’s an OF I can really root for.

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

if Bradley was playing in the OF

he would not stay healthy. Besides, only four of his 19 homers have come on the road. I like Bradley too, but he wouldn’t be having the same season if he were hitting-and fielding-in Oakland.

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still upset

I’m still upset about the A’s giving up on Bradley, but at this point, its water under the bridge.

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 24, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If there's any truth to the story that Bradley was saying things intentionally to see...

...what’d get up to the front office and what wouldn’t, then I’m glad they got rid of him. He had a good thing going here but he couldn’t stay healthy playing the field and his attitude problem reared its ugly head yet again.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 24, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lets be honest, bradley doesnt fit with the a’s organization. i mean he tore his acl by trying to fight an umpire last year. none the less, he is having a great year, but still he is a mad man

by jhroac02 on Jul 24, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's also remember that Milton Bradley

has had a “rebirth” every time he has started new with an organization, only to wear out his welcome soon after. It’s still his first year in Texas – let’s wait until 2009 to see how well Texas and Milton Bradley fit.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that his contract was up?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that anyone has mentioned Vernon Wells

is there a reason?

too old? expensive? would we have to move him out of center and into the logjam that is corner outfield?

by Keze on Jul 24, 2008 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

much of his value is tied to his role in center field,

and I don’t think he’s played very good defense s of late. A career 108 OPS+ and two seasons removed from good offensive numbers have me saying “No thanks.”

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elijah Dukes?

Would the Nats give him up?

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Would you fight to get him? Kill for him?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, but he would have promiscuous sex to get him

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

that bad?

I was hoping for a “Get a big bat for the A’s” collection jar, guess I’ll need a bigger jar. I don’t have the kind of finance resources like client #9

by asfansince1989 on Jul 24, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something Needs To Be Done

I think we all believe that we need some sort of good to great hitter to come our way for us to seriously contend.

I personally think it will take one superstar and another above average hitter and we’re in business. The pitching is in place – it really is. With Devine in the mix, along with Zig, Casilla, Blevins, Brown and maybe someone else on the cheap, the bullpen is also a strength.

We’re two offensive pieces away from being a legit contender. We have the payroll flexibility, a surplus down on the farm from a pitching standpoint. The issue is that hitting costs a lot of money, and young talent as far as hitter are concerned does not develop overnight. So are the A’s gonna spend some serious cash to make this team into a contender – because with two quality bats we will compete from 2009 – 2013 if not longer easily.

by MrAlex on Jul 24, 2008 3:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I still would like a Package

Consisting of Matt Kemp and Andy LaRoche. As much as I love Duke, a Duke and Street deal for Kemp and LaRoche as the Principals makes an awful a lot of sense to me. I would try to take advantage of Colletti before they can his ass this year.

Cain is Able ...

by Norcalfan10 on Jul 24, 2008 3:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

the duke is a wild card and since billy beane is always in favor of selling people at a high and buying them at a low, i know he is listening to gm’s . but i must say, a player like Jason Bay who fit this team real well doesnt come around very oftern. i mean he hits for power and average, and is a solid # 4

by jhroac02 on Jul 24, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Bay is a FA after next year.

Kemp on the other hand is only 23 … controllable for the next 5 years and has an immense ceiling. The fact that he is even possible to attain is laughable. His plate discipline has alot to be desired, but the Kid is very raw still and putting up very solid numbers. I want to obtain a player who has upside, not one who has reached his and will probably begin to decline before the mid point of an extention that we will undoubtedly have to give to justify the prospects we lost in acquiring him.

Give me Kemp and LaRoche over Bay. And it would probably fall more in line of giving up now players instead of our prospects as Ned needs to get to the playoffs to save his JOB. Street, Duke and another piece for a potential impact bat in Kemp and an undervalued 3b target in LaRoche makes all sorts of sense.

Cain is Able ...

by Norcalfan10 on Jul 24, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

But I am doubtful that Coletti is really that liberal with his prospects. Name one that he has traded.

I’d do Duke + Street for Kemp + LaRoche.
With that trade, though, you’d have filled every hole in the offense for the next few years, except for SS and to a lesser extent 2B (If Ellis leaves, Cardenas and Patterson can’t field the position, and Weeks isn’t ready). That means two things:
1) SS would be the only gaping hole needing to be filled
2) Upgrading the offense at other positions would yield a lower marginal improvement. This makes the “let’s get a superstar” strategy less attractive, because you’d then be left with a quality player without playing time. If you acquire Kemp and field an OF of Gonzalez, Kemp, Sweeney, what are you going to do with Cunningham and Buck? It’d end up an upgrade of Kemp over Sweeney (decent upgrade of course), but then I don’t know what you’d be able to get trading marginal players such as Sweeney.

The A’s need to plan to consolidate their talent so that trading pitching depth can result in non-redundant acqusitions

by Stussy on Jul 24, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cunningham would be a fantastic 4th OF. Buck needs to prove he can play again anyway.

I’d give up Duke, Street, and Crosby for Kemp and LaRoche, play them both and give Petit the starting SS job for 2 months to see if he can hack it given consistent playing time.

If he can’t, go sign Furcal this offseason.

by mikev on Jul 24, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd also consider that there is room for 4 starting OFers

on a team, once you factor in occasional days off (or DHing), injuries, and possible platoon-starts. I’ve come to look at the OF as “four spots” for starters.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would not do this deal mikev!

but that’s just one man’s opinion.

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd think about it

But I find “I want to obtain a player who has upside, not one who has reached his and will probably begin to decline” terrible logic.

Bay may have reached his upside, but it’s very very high. If Kemp reaches his upside (and that’s far from certain), he’d be lucky to match Bay.

I’d consider the deal because I like LaRoche (and we can’t rely on Chavez for next year) but if I’m picking a team for 2009 it’ll have Bay on it before it has Kemp. If I’m picking a team for 2010, same. If I’m picking a team for 2015, I have no idea whether I’d want to start Kemp or DFA him.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but you could sign a FA slugger with the money Kemp/LaRoche save you.

I’d much rather have Kemp/LaRoche/ contract control through 2015 and prospects than Bay/Duke/Street minus prospects with contracts running through 2009.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the dodgers

do you think the duke is enough for those 2 players. i mean unless the dodgers front office is blowing coke all night, they are going to want something more than 1 starter and 2 pretty bad players. who else do you give them.

by jhroac02 on Jul 24, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, I don't think that deal happens.

but I also think you’re confused. The proposed deal was

Duke/Street

for

LaRoche/Kemp

which is 2 very good players from the A’s.

Really, I don’t think the Dodgers are interested in Street. I think something like Duke for LaRoche and DeJesus is more up my alley, with Ellis to sweeten the pot if the Dodgers are willing to move Kemp.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

they have no closer, and furcal might not be back this season
so i would think they would want something that fills those roles,
and then to sweeten the deal have the duke part of it

by jhroac02 on Jul 24, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure what's wrong with Broxton closing,

and I doubt they’re going to find a better 2009 option than what they have internally.

Actually, what I mean to say is: Crosby and Street would be major upgrades for them!! Here’s Duke too!!! And thanks a lot for LaRoche/DeJesus/Kemp!

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait what, you're questioning how high Kemp's upside is?

I find it harder to find many more players with a higher upside.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's

by iamawesomer on Jul 24, 2008 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Kemp has been misused…he’s a really really good OF bat.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers would have to be very stupid to give up Kemp for anything the A's have

Of course, I’m amazed they’re apparently giving up on LaRoche.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean other than Carlos Gonzalez.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like it might be Josh Fields

White Sox are rumored to be after Duke, and Fields would seem to be a target. Doesn’t really blow my skirt up…

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 3:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I really hope not

The Sox don’t have the prospects for Duke

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are trying though

Start here though: Carlos Quentin

and work towards: The Duke and Street and Buck

I would like one other from the Sox but starting there would get me interested quickly

by A'sfaninNC on Jul 24, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laroche can play defense. Fields is bad at defense.

Laroche is 24 and has a career .895 OPS in the minors.

Fields is 25 and has a career .817 OPS in the minors.

by mikev on Jul 24, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you defense

but the difference in leagues should matter too. The thing that bothers me about LaRoche is that the Dodgers preferred Blake DeWitt over him, not to mention broken Nomar…

by scatterbrian on Jul 24, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, it's hard to give credit to minor league stats for the most part

since the leagues are all way different. Still, Laroche has a .350 OBP in his big league time. Fields has a .310 OBP.

by mikev on Jul 24, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No to Fields Yes to Laroche

Fields struck out in 30% of his plate appearances his breakout season and only hit 15% line drives. His home run rate was much lower on the road than at home.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 24, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 24, 2008 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His strikeouts this year are triple his XBH and his BB as well

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, how confusing is it going to be in a year or two

when there are two Josh Fields’s in MLB?

Seattle’s most recent #1 pick is also named Josh Fields.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 24, 2008 5:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Especially when the conversation goes like,

“Fields fields better than Fields, right?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does Duke's contract information look like currently?

How long is he under A’s conrtol before the two time All-Star cashes in and says “F” you B.B.????

Beating LAA or wherever the fu*k they are, Priceless!

by MMunoz33 on Jul 24, 2008 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he is eligible for arbitration this Winter,

and then is a free agent after 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So when does he say "F" you BB?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But Fields hits to all fields, even though he doesn’t field as well as Fields.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Cecil's kid ends up on one of those teams, with men on...

“Fields fields Fields’ fielder’s choice and fires to Fielder on first.”

It's Rhodes Scholar Night at the Coliseum tonight.

by Scottbass on Jul 25, 2008 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has there ever been a time when three major leaguers all had the same name?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have to say yes, since there was a time when every player

was either named “Red” or “Lefty”.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 25, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't the White Sox have at least four players named

“C’mon, we need a dinger here!!!”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So there were three Red O'Murphy's at some point?

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup. Hannahan hit two of them,

then swerved and barely missed the third one before smashing into a guard rail.

It was, in fact, the last time Hannahan hit two of anything the same day.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just missed with Carlos Hernandez, 2000-2001

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jul 25, 2008 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly why Beane should extend him now!

Where is the harm in inking Duke to an extension for 3+years now instead of waiting till he hits the FA market and letting him walk? I know there are plenty of naysayers that would prefer that the A’s trade Duke while he is still healthy and has “max” value but I’m not one of them!

Even if the A’s later on down the road end up trading him, if he is still ballin for the A’s in the next few years, his contract is still going to look pretty damed good to other GM/s looking to make a deal at future deadlines or in future off-seasons.

Plus, Duke is primed for leading the next group of studs into the next possible run of post season dreams/promise of championchips.

Go A’s!

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 8:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with everything you say, but think Beane is wise

to talk extension at the end of the season rather than now, when negotiations are based on a full season’s performance and not on what has to be the best 2/3 of a season Duke will ever have.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course Nico

more to the point that I’m trying to make is:

Beane is still dealing from a postion of strength no matter what. If he decides to ink Duke at the end of this year, fine. Beane is still going to be able to sign Duke for “way under market value”. If he signs Duke before the end of the season, same thing. If anything, it almost makes more sense to sign him now so Duke can relax and continue to go out every 5th day and handle his business. Also, I think it would send a positive message to the rest of the team, especially the young pitching staff now and for the future, that Billy Beane wants to usher in the new era with a veteran that has been with the team for awhile now; and wants to keep some semblance of continuity with the young pitching staff.

Plus, Duke is my favorite, bestest player ever!!!!!!!!!!

:?)

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mine too

And your points about easing Duke’s mind and sending a good message to the rest of the team are excellent ones.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Your honor....I rest my case"

“No further questions….......”

by mrod on Jul 24, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"That's fine, Bob, but instead...

...how about resting your catcher?”

“Good one, your Honor.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"compliments his own puns,"

“hits on a donkey,” whatever, yeah.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man

The goats must really be on their game tonight. They even managed to escape the joke.

by nevermoor on Jul 24, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duchscherer has never been a starter a full season and has a chronic bad back.

I’d be afraid. Very afraid. Kotsay and Chavez were once good too.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interestingly, though, his back hasn't been a problem once

since he moved into the rotation.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That fact will be more interesting after he pitches a full season.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting note about Indians' SS prospect Josh Rodriguez

(Sickels loves him, gives him a “B” with a tag of “He’s a personal favorite”): He was previously drafted by the A’s (out of high school I assume). The A’s know who they like and track them, so I wonder if he’s on their “wish list”. Would a swap including Street and J. Rodriguez make sense, given that the Indians have Peralta?

Jared Goedert (3B) also intrigues me if people want to look him up – sounds like a terrific hitter in the making who has had a down year following a shoulder injury in 2007.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to get a bat like David Dejesus

he’s still young enough that he’ll be productive for a while, and doesn’t excel at any one thing so well that he would be too high of a price. However, i think the royals will still probably ask for more than he’s worth at this point in time, which is a shame because i think the a’s and royals match up nicely for a deal.

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 24, 2008 8:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why do we need a player who doesn't excel at any one thing,

when we already have Emil Brown and Brooks Conrad and Jack Hannahan and…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

because i'd argue

that unlike those guys, he is can actually hit major league pitching

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 24, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then that's one thing he excels at which

But yet, how great does that feel?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've learned not to try to predict Mr. Beane's moves

I’m usually wrong.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 24, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've long wanted DDJ

he’s kinda like a poor man’s version of Grady Sizemore.

While he doesn’t do anything all that well, he does everything reasonably well: plays decent D to good D in CF, hits better than a typical CF.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 25, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This kinda interesting

But we’re hearing they could have expanded the Blanton trade to include Alan Embree if they’d have been willing to throw in Olympic-team shortstop Jason Donald, and turned that one down. Another option they’ve mulled is recalling J.A. Happ as a situational left-hander. Left-handed hitters went 1 for 12 off Happ in his two starts earlier this month.

by buckfan6 on Jul 24, 2008 9:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

shoot.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 24, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Careful...

This is a direct quote from an Article. I can’t remember which, but I guarantee it. “include Alan Embree…Olympic…Option they’ve mulled is recalling J.A. Happ…” at minimum is from somewhere.

by ohmangoAs on Jul 24, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes it is

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 25, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

manny?

dare I throw it out there for consideration – how about Manny in 2 yrs from now as a DH?

Boston-Manny seem to be inching closer to divorce every day now. Yes, the A’s aren’t going to give him his $20 million, but when Boston finally grows a pair and tells him to shutup (declines his ‘09 or ‘10 options), he’ll be mid-late 30’s – at a point where not too many teams would be willing to sign a term contract on the order Boras will be pushing. Could go with the late-30’s/early 40’s Man-Ram under a contract which would be sorta Frank Thomas-like to get us into the new ballpark…

Yes, there’s alot of negatives: Boras, baggage, and bucks; but it’s something out of the blue for which Beane has a knack for.

by rollierollieOxenfree on Jul 25, 2008 3:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mark Teahen

What do people think of re-acquiring Mark Teahen from the Royals? Not as the middle of the order RH bat obviously but as someone who has put in a couple of good years but is having an off year and hence may be more affordable trade wise. I realize that he is a LH hitter and his slugging PCT hasn’t been that great lately but the thing that intrigues me is his ability to competently play both 3B and the OF which I think is important given the uncertainty over Eric Chavez’s health.

What happens if we acquire Laroche and Chavez recovers his health? You’re not going to get value in a trade of Chavez and it would be silly to give him away. Given his D you’re also not going to make him a regular DH. And by recover his health I don’t necessarily mean that he has to hit 30Hrs and play gold glove defense. I think that he would be of great value to the A’s offense if he hit 20+ HRs and played very solid D which he certainly is capable of doing.

by Larry E on Jul 25, 2008 6:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

you could DH Chavvy and mix him in at 3B every once in a while.

shoot, he could even spell at first with the situation the A’s have there now. and, if he proves he should be playing the field daily, he could be a valuable trade chip.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Jul 25, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Royals release Teahen sure.

Or if they want someone like Jason Windsor. Or if they will take Emil back.

He might be able to play the OF an 3b competently, but his hitting is not good enough for corner OF or 3b. Over his career, his offense is fairly comfortably below average for corner OF and 3b. Offensively, he’s average, at 2b and CF. If he could play 2b or 3b, then he would be worth something. Otherwise, his value lies mainly in that he is is cheap.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 25, 2008 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look forward to the day when the A's have too many good players for one position

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not special in any way but probably more realistic...

.... is someone like Scott Hairston. Righty bat, hitting in a park even worse for hitting than Oakland, on a team that truly sucks and needs anything they can get for the future. And while not special by league standards he’d be a big upgrade for the A’s aw(ful)fense right now.

by itsgemme on Jul 25, 2008 6:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Indians fan here

Hey, saw this conversation about Garko and thought it was pretty interested somebody would be interested in him. I would say he is probably up for trade, but Shapiro has been gunshy about “selling low” on a player since the Brandon Phillips debacle. Evidence of that is our unwillingness to part with Cliff Lee in the off-season (Thank god, eh?)

I think Nico is right … Garko isn’t as bad as 08, but probably not as good as 07. If you examine his 07 season, he is a VERY streaky hitter: LINK. Look at those monthly totals .. some horrendous months sandwiched between some excellent months.

What about Ben Francisco? A good contact hitter with some power (10-15 a year). A little below average with the glove. The Indians are currently getting log jammed in the OF and are going to have to make some choices in the off-season. Guys like Guiterrez and Choo are out of options and haven’t yet established themselves as everyday players. Then you have Crowe (a 1st rounder) and LaPorta nipping at their heels next year for playing time.

by Toxicadam on Jul 25, 2008 9:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not to make fun of your suggestion, since you probably aren't intimately familiar with the A's 40-man

but if there’s one thing the A’s couldn’t possibly use more of right now, it’s contact-hitting outfielders with mediocre defense and minimal power.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 25, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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