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Hannahan's Jack Leads The A's Out Of Funk

First of all, he may not be the world’s best player but tonight Jack Hannahan had himself a ballgame. With the A’s trailing 1-0 in the 4th, Hannahan exorcised the demons that have held the A’s to 0 or 1 run more often than any team on the planet with a 3-run HR off of Andy Sonnanstine. He would drive in his fourth run as the A’s added on in the late innings, and his outstanding defense choked off an early rally, helping Dallas Braden to make it through five innings of one run baseball and earn the win. How flabbergasting was it for the A’s to hit a 3-run HR? Perhaps that is best answered by Vince Cotroneo’s call, which was “GRAND SLAM!!!!”  Close enough.

Carlos Gonzalez also came up big in this A’s win, stretching all out to catch a drive to left-center field, walking twice, and showing his terrific instincts when he stunned LFer Carl Crawford by speeding around from first to third on Hannahan’s single; Gonzalez scored when Crawford double-clutched and then threw wildly to third.

I thought Braden looked better than he did last year, but not great, as he walked three and needed some defensive wizardry to keep the Rays down but also showed more confidence in his fastball and had Tampa Bay out in front of the changeup as often as not.

And while at times Brad Ziegler struggled with his command, he also threw two full innings and they were the only kind he has ever thrown in the major leagues: scoreless. Congratulations to AN’s best right-handed pitcher (notice how I don’t close the door on the possibility that I may still pull a Jamie Moyer and have a better career?) for setting the new American League record with 23.2 scoreless innings to begin his career. The major league record is 25.0 innings.

The A’s played a great game tonight, offensively, defensively, and on the bases. At this point, let’s just enjoy every well-played game, and every win we can, because tonight, and the week that preceded it, were reminders that regardless of the standings winning just feels a heck of lot better than losing.

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Who was it in an earlier game thread who said...

....that the A’s would score in the 4th? They were due.

by gregorymark on Jul 22, 2008 7:27 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Not too excited about Dallas Braden going forward

but I’m happy he got us a win tonight. I have never seen any evidence that he is an ML starting pitcher and hope that he proves me wrong.

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 7:27 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Braden

I will give him this… Braden looked like he had a little more zip on the fastball, w/ better control. His curveball and changeup had Ray hitters off balance (most of the time). He still needs to be able to throw any pitch, in any count.

by Colorado Fan on Jul 22, 2008 8:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The lesson here,

as always, is the Baseball Gods listen, when humbly approached.

Thank you, Baseball Gods, thank you.

I think we should throw (Barton) head first, into a pool with no water, screaming, "You like THAT? Huh, kid, do you like THAT?" Maybe that’s just the Marine in me, though. -Nico
For the record, I’ve never had a Marine in me. -Swooney's Left Foot

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2008 7:28 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Can we bottle some of that humility?

by gregorymark on Jul 22, 2008 7:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

LOL

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Jul 22, 2008 9:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I like Nico's game wrap better than BBG's yesterday.

She could learn from this.

When you have a chance to get a guy like Sean Gallagher, you take it!

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2008 7:29 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

Harsh!

Stomper is a badass!

by lynnzgal on Jul 22, 2008 7:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Anyone can write the easy ones, because,

as leo tolstoy sorta said, “all wins are alike; each loss is unhappy in its own way.” It takes a BBG to handle the toughies….

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Jul 22, 2008 8:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

question

who would you all rather have pitch a game for the a’s right now, braden, blanton, or zito?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 7:31 PM PDT reply reply   0 recs

i would normally pick blanton

but he just doesn’t look right. i’m not so sure he’s going to just bounce back to the pitcher he was over the last three years.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 7:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Will Braden ever be more than a 5-6 inning guy?

I hope Joe gets it going because I root for guys that we trade away. Guys that leave via FA is an entirely different story.

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 7:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No, don't worry - Braden will settle back into being a 3.1 IP guy

if he’s given enough chances.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 7:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Are we concerned with arby clocks? If not, when do you foresee

one of our “prospects” taking his place?

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 7:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think Gio will be up when the A's feel he's ready,

which is when the manager, pitching coach, etc. say “He’s ready” more than any stats. He’s pitching tonight. Looks like a 1-2-3 first inning for Gio and then two hits, one run to open the second inning. Currently 3-1 Sacramento, bottom of the second (still nobody out).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 7:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I trust the A's on Gio's development. I just think we will continue to save

money any way we can. If that means an extra year of club control than so be it.

I used to get pissed off about using this avenue, but in a rebuilding mode, it absolutely makes perfect sense!

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 7:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Looks like that game is over from rain

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I wouldn't replace him this year

He was great in the minors this year and last year.

Assuming Duke doesn’t get traded, next year we have:
Duke
Gallagher
These guys are for sure.
Smith
I think he’ll be good enough to be in there.
Then:
Eveland
Braden
Gio

These guys will all be ready. Gio has the most upside by far. It’s not clear to me that Eveland is any better than Braden. I think he probably is, but it’s not clear, as Eveland has looked pretty bad and has terrible command. Gio also has struggled a lot with his command, and has never pitched in the majors, so it’s far from clear how good he’ll be next year.

Braden isn’t going to block Gio, but it’s worth seeing if he can be a decent starter either if Gio is deemed not ready, or if he show himself to be better than Eveland (or Smith).

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Another guy Braden may wind up being better than is

Gaudin.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 7:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

He doesn't have the same arsenal but Gaudin

had so much trouble finding the plate. I always thought he would get it corrected but that ship has sailed so it’s someone else’s worry now. Personally I see Braden as another Saarloos without as much determination (if that is even realistic).

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 8:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

trouble finding the plate

again, 1.86 bb/9 in 53 AAA innings this year.

maybe he’ll never find the plate in the majors, but i’m not ready to make that determination yet after 15 garbage time innings scattered across three call ups.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 8:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No, he said Gaudin had trouble finding the plate

Braden’s problem has been finding too much of the plate.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2008 8:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

ah, i misread that

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 8:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yes

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 7:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I share your enthusiam

for 2009. We will laugh maniacally at the others when we are proved right.

I think we should throw (Barton) head first, into a pool with no water, screaming, "You like THAT? Huh, kid, do you like THAT?" Maybe that’s just the Marine in me, though. -Nico
For the record, I’ve never had a Marine in me. -Swooney's Left Foot

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2008 8:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

enthusiasm?

how badly are most of duke/gallagher/smith/eveland/braden/meyer/gio/simmons next year if the a’s are calling up a pitcher who is barely 21?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 9:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

If he's ready, he's ready

If he’s not, he’s not. Most 21 year olds aren’t ready – some are.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 9:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

But still,

it will only happen if something goes wrong with the ~6-7 guys penciled in ahead of him, which would be bad. Or if he just completely dominates in AAA next year, but that isn’t all that likely.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 9:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

and if those they're all sucking

the pitching-reliant a’s are probably well out of it by the ASB, so why call him up?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 9:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

no

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 7:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

no

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 7:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'm not sure why the A's would even consider doing that

He’s not uber-polished, he’s still almost comically young, and he’s not likely to be a significant upgrade on the alternatives next year.

I would figure that he would be called up in mid-April (to get that extra near-year of service time) 2010.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2008 8:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think there's an outside chance

Simmons could push for a spot either in spring training or by May, 2009. He’s very polished compared to Gio, and Cahill is only 20.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 8:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Heh

I set out to mention him, but my comment got so long that I forgot. I think Simmons is more promising that any of Smith/Eveland/Braden, but the knock on him when he was drafted was that he lacked a good offspeed pitch. He’s done well this year, but also been knocked around some, so I’d like to see him focus on developing a good changeup or curve or what have you in a low pressure environment, which could take awhile. But that said, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he made the team out of spring training next year, and I’d be more surprised to see Braden start the ‘10 season in the rotation than Simmons.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 8:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Same - Braden is just so far down

on the depth chart (he has to even be behind Meyer with Meyer out of options, I would think) that I think he’s “rebuilding filler” at this point: Keeping the mound warm for “the real guys”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 8:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think Braden has a better chance to be valuable

going forward than Meyer even inluding the option situation. They both get hit hard, and Meyer has never gotten his command back. Braden’s younger, been better in AAA, better in the majors. Meyer is ok, but I think he’s still relying on the fact that he used to be good several years ago.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 8:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Meyer seems to be regaining his command

Who knows if it’s a “2-3 starts” thing or a break-through. But he does throw harder than Braden and had/has an excellent slider. If he regains the level of command he once had, I think he could still be good. But maybe I’m just wishing it so.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2008 8:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

If he regains his command, he'll be better

but it’s been a long long time since it’s been there.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 9:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

meyer

at this point, he’s pretty much the same pitcher he was in AAA for the braves. of course, that was a lot more impressive at 22 than 26…

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 9:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No, he's not.

K% and BB% were both quite a bit better with the Braves in 04 than this year.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 9:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

"pretty much"

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 9:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

it depends on if you consider myer a "prospect"

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 7:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

This is Meyer's final option year

He either makes the team next year or is DFA’d/traded.

by Swooney's Left Foot on Jul 22, 2008 7:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

the question was

when will one of our “prospects” take braden’s place.

if braden doesn’t pitch well and needs to be replaced, meyer should be called up for precisely that reason.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 8:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Has Meyer's control gotten any better? I haven't paid much

attention to his stats so far this year.

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 8:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

What about total pitches per game?

That used to be his biggest problem. I recall that he had trouble getting out of the 5th or 6th without throwing 100+.

Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2008 8:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That is really not a problem in and of itself

Not in the slightest. You shouldn’t even want your 5th starter to pitch past the 5th inning.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 8:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Typically, 5th starters are gascans

when they’re going through a lineup a third time.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2008 8:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well, yeah.

(I’m not that dense … close, but not quite)

Seemed like he was saying something else.

by 74mk on Jul 22, 2008 8:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

obviously it depends

on both the quality of the #5 starter and the quality of the bullpen, among other things.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 8:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Basically

1)The average reliever is half a run per 9 better than the average starter. The reliever you bring in in these situations will be pretty close to the average reliever, while the 4th and 5th starters will be worse than the average starter, increasing that gap.

2)Starters get progressively worse each time through the lineup to the tune of .734/.769/.819 (in 2007) 1st/2nd/3rd time through the lineup.

So in the 6th or 7th inning, there is a HUGE gap between the expected quality of the bullpen and the 4th or 5th starter (the bullpen should do better than even the 2nd or 3rd starter).

Now, that is obviously mitigated by not wanting to tire out the bullpen over a season.
However, it really doesn’t matter in a single game.

And finally, the qualities that allow some pitchers to go deeper into games than others (keeping overall quality separate), which are high K/BB vs. low K/BB, are so tiny in light of the above considerations as to be hardly worth mentioning.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 8:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Any reliever who performed at the level of

an average starter 3rd time through the lineup would not keep his job more than a year.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The more batters sucky pitchers face, the suckier they become, and even sucky relievers are better than sucky starters at their suckiest.

Plus other stuff.

Got it.

My $19.95 RiteAid electric razor fizzled out mid-shave this morning, I’m fairly certain the aggregate IQ of my co-workers is somewhere in the 85-90 range, my boss has added “Thanks,” to her auto-signature yet inexplicably still types the word every single time, so that each of her emails now ends with “Thanks. Thanks,”, the guys playing catch in the courtyard below my apartment have yelled “dude” approximately 114 times in the past 20 minutes, and I just had oatmeal and french fries (not even the crinkly kind!) for dinner.

So I was hoping for something clever and sabermetric-y to salvage my day.

This, while not quite revelatory, will do. Thanks.

by 74mk on Jul 22, 2008 9:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

the DUDES playing catch

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2008 9:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs