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Where Have All The Hitters Gone?

This is not intended as an indictment. I truly welcome folks smarter than me who have studied this team more carefully to weigh in here. If the answer is simply a combination of hitters' park, bad luck, injuries and only modest draft position, then so be it. if Moneyball rears its head, by all means tell me how and why.

But I got to thinking instead of grousing over a permanently sputtering offense and hoping somehow, somewhere there is a star or two at the plate on our horizon.

In the BB era-- 1998 and beyond-- how many true hitting successes have we seen?

I think the answer fills just the fingers in one hand, and maybe just the fingers in Mordecai Brown's hand. The three i feel most confident about are Giambi, Tejada and Thomas. Two users and a guy who had already built an HOF career elsewhere. Swisher and perhaps Cust might also fill the bill-- and that, sadly, is about it. Question that judgement?

Go around the horn:

Catcher-- Ramon Hernandez was a valuable player whose hitting did improve somewhat-- but I don't think you can call him a hitting success. Miller was a stopgap. We got one OK year out of Kendall and you know the rest. Suzuki shows some promise but too soon to tell;

First Base-- Giambi of course. Since then, hmmm. Hatteberg was good at first (pun intended) but tailed off pretty miserably his last two years here. Karros was a bust. Pena turned into a decent hitter but well after BB's patience ran out. DJ never lived up to his promis. I hate to say it, but if someone had told me that some player-- possibly alcohol induced-- was dumb enough to dive into the shallow end of a swimming pool during the ASB and smack his head, I'd have thought almost instantly of Barton. Swish never was a full time IBman here, but he was a success, IMHO.

Second Base-- we got 2 decent months of Frankie Menechino, and then he was terrible. 2 rented months out of Durham 6 years before the Brewers are doing the same. Some "roid influenced decent play out of Velarde. Scoot wasn't all that bad. And Ellis. I'd have to call him hit and miss (pun intended) offensively along with his superb defense.

Shortstop-- Mr Swing at Anything turned into a pretty darn good hitter. Bobby crosby did not.

Third Base--Who knows what wwe would think if Mr. Injury hadn't come calling a couple of years back? But Chavy was enigmatic even then-- maybe everyone associated with the organization overrated his talents. He was always above average, after all, if not an outright star. Can't call him anything but a qualified success though. And the various backups and stopgaps have all been mediocre or worse.

Outfield-- Just start listing names and realize that their best years have either come elsewhere or just never happened. Grieve. Long. Piatt. Jeremy. damon. Dye. Justice. McMillon. Kotsay. Kielty. Payton (maybe the closest thing to a success given his prior track record) Singleton Bradley (woulda coulda shoulda?? I just can't decide who was to fault on this one) Stairs (he is a success but he left after 1999 so it's hard to count him) and now Buck, Brown, Putnam. Let's cross fingers about Ryan Sweeney and CarGon-- too soon to know. And again Swish has to be included somewhere. We did get a couple of decent months out of Jose Guillen, FWIW.

DH and Fillers-- Jaha was a success for one year-- and I'm going to assume it wasn't only for natural reasons. Saenz and Durazo had impact, but both their careers here ended so strangely that I can't really count either one of them. Durazo in particular was supposed to be so much more. Thomas is clearly a success. Cust less so but probably all in all more plus than minus. Piazza was OK.

Maybe given the park and the monetary realities this isn't so surprising. But boy it seems that most of the guys that come here simply do not perform at the plate. Anyone care to react??

4 recs  |  Comment 22 comments

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One trend that is definite

our offense has gotten progressivly worse over the years. Sure, we went from No D, All O to All D, but I’d still expect some offense.

What this organization needs is a great hitter that will be around for a long time.

But I also have another question: Will Fremont be a hitters or a pitchers park?

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 20, 2008 10:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A pitcher's park, based on the fact that

the A’s will be doing half the hitting.

Thank you, I’m here all week!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 20, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that the end of the easy-roid era was key here

You noticed that during that era, the A’s had a good offense. That was the era in which they could draft a guy like Giambi and expect, or hope, that he could “develop” power (by which we really mean “ingest” power).

Now? You kind of have to draft power as such (or sign it in free agency). And it’s not easy to come by—power is clearly the rarest of the tools. There are only a handful of guys a year who marry good power with good secondary skills—even this year with the #12 pick, by the time things rolled around to Oakland the hitting choices were a lot of guys with power but highly questionable defensive skills, a few raw athletes who might develop it someday, and a bunch of guys with average power or worse.

It may be that the “average offense, great pitching” business model is the only one that small market teams can realistically follow to success anymore. I don’t know.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 11:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What pisses me off is that the guy who had those hitting skills AND Power...

was stolen from us by the damn Rangers… If we had just lost 1 more game!

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 20, 2008 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smoak would have been a redraft,

and as such, he had veto power over Oakland drafting him.

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 21, 2008 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he wouldn't have

The reason he didn’t sign wasn’t that he didn’t like us, it was that he thought he’d go a lot higher. He, of course, was right.

by nevermoor on Jul 21, 2008 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Or it might be that teams just started paying more attention to OBP and OPS, OBP specifically.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 21, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree

you inject power more than you ingest it.

"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 21, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I was only off by one phoneme

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 21, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Approach Has Something To Do WIth It

It’s true that the A’s hitting has sucked for years, and there’s no doubt that the most obvious explanation is that a lot of the guys they roll out there just aren’t very good hitters.

Another factor not huge, but not zero is also the fact that the club takes an awful lot of pitches with 2-0 and 3-1 counts. I’m sure someone here has the stats. But whereas a lot of clubs get very aggressive when they’re ahead in the count, they A’s actually seem to get more conservative. This helps explain what so many A’s teams of the past several years have been so bad with runners in scoring position: when they get ahead of the count they get a lot of outs, and when they get behind in the count, well, they make a lot of outs.

by solotar on Jul 21, 2008 12:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gone to Texas, every one...

When will they ever learn?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jul 21, 2008 1:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dye

He hit well here, didn’t he? Yes, I know, he had more fame elsewhere, but that’s only because he wasn’t hitting here for long. I don’t remember Dye ever hitting poorly for us. He came over, he hit well, then his leg was broken, and then he left.

But when he was actually on our team and healthy, his hitting was excellent. Or at least that’s how I remember it. Am I wrong?

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jul 21, 2008 1:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

amended

He came over, he hit well, then his leg was broken horribly, then he was signed to an expensive extension, then he really struggled at the plate when his horribly broken leg didn’t heal magically, and then he left.

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 21, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and then he hit well

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 21, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

Who needs competence as long as everyone smiles? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 21, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

We would have gone a lot further in those playoffs if Dye hadn’t had the freak injury. If we hadn’t made the ALCS last time, I’d still be worrying about the first round “Dye Curse”

by nevermoor on Jul 21, 2008 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Texas.

Forgot Milton, sorry.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 21, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a random question that I didn't want to put in a new FanPost

but since we have had a little recent success pulling “AAAA” out of the minors (see: Jack Cust), what about taking a flyer on Andy Marte? Yes, he hasn’t been so great in 300+ at bats in the majors, but his minor league numbers aren’t bad, and he does fill a position of need. Plus, the fact that his MLB record isn’t that good means he’s cheap, but 300 at bats isn’t enough to really judge him. Plus, he’s still only 24, so it’s not like he’s all that old…

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 21, 2008 2:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

or what about if we signed Corey Koskie to a minor league contract...

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 21, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dallas mcpherson

i would like much better

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 21, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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