The Final Sell-Off: How the A's Can Land an Elite Hitter
Two questions keep floating around AthleticsNation:
- What will the fate be of looming ('08 or '09) free agents Mark Ellis, Bobby Crosby, Justin Duchscherer, Alan Embree, and Huston Street (FA after '10)?
- Can the A's somehow acquire a fearsome, middle-of-the-order run producer to anchor their lineup for years to come, as Jason Giambi did during the A's last mini-dynasty?
I think that the answer to #2 is yes, thanks to a wonderful confluence of factors that have made one team match up perfectly for a trade involving the list of A's players in #1. Instead of continuing to piece-meal out his best trade assets one-by-one, leading to more and more uneasiness and distraction with each passing day, Beane could be done with rebuilding trades for years in one fell swoop.
Can you already guess which team, and which coveted hitter, I'm targeting? Here's a few hints in the form of questions, in order from easy to difficult:
1.) Which league does Billy Beane love re-routing his soon-to-be-expensive talent to, so that it's less likely to come back and beat his own team later on?
2.) Which manager pioneered the LOOGY, loves carrying 2 or even 3 lefties, and would highly value Embree's services right now?
3.) Which highly-regarded pitching coach with experience coaching an injury-prone closer with occasional mental/confidence issues might be excited to help the enigmatic Street return to form?
4.) Which team has a gaping closer vacancy not only now, but especially after the season when their high-priced, injury-prone closer hits FA? Which contending team's middle infield is a bastion of offensive futility, with no youthful promise, long-term cost control, or hope for improvement? Which team has three big-name starting pitchers out with serious injuries, and would crave Duke's stabilizing presence? Which team desperately needs to answer the two high-profile acquisitions made by their biggest division rivals in the past two weeks?
If you answered 1) the NL, 2) Tony LaRussa, 3) Dave Duncan, and 4) the Cardinals four times over, you're right. Somehow, one team matches up perfectly with all five players the A's might be looking to jettison in the next few weeks - five players who are about to become more expensive and won't be in their primes when Beane figures the A's can contend again, in 2010 or 2011 and beyond.
Duchscherer would make a great fit for St. Louis, helping to shoulder the burden with Wainwright, Carpenter, and Mulder all on the shelf. It's easy to see a scenario of him making a few good playoff starts for them, loving the atmosphere, and signing an extension at the end of the season.
Crosby, as much as he's maligned here, is actually quite an upgrade over the Cards' Cesar Izturis. The Cards might be attracted to solving their SS question mark for '09 too, and getting a sneak peak at how Crosby responds to a change of scenery and the NL. If Crosby enjoys a mini-renaissance against weaker NL pitching, it's not hard to foresee his next contract coming from the St. Louis, too.
Ellis is the most questionable inclusion on this list: would the Cardinals be willing to bump out incumbent 2b Adam Kennedy, even though he's making $3.5MM this year and owed an additional $4MM for '09? Perhaps they should, considering that Ellis is an obvious upgrade over Kennedy, and would be an ideal plug for their second-base hole for years to come if they liked what they saw and re-signed him this off-season.
Now, if you're an A's fan and you're howling about giving up as many as five legitimate big leaguers, consider that a Cardinals fan would be howling over what the A's would get in return (which is how it always works on the home team's blog, right?)
What makes giving up Duke, Street, Embree, and potentially Ellis/Crosby palatable is receiving arguably the next top-rated minor league hitting prospect in the game in return: Colby Rasmus.
Rasmus is a 6-foot-2, 195 pound, 21-year-old, five-tool center fielder with great plate discipline and impressively low strikeout totals for a power hitter. He will be ready at the latest by the end of '09, and his eventually big league debut will probably end up being as big of a deal publicity-wise as Jay Bruce's was this season. But what makes Rasmus unique is that, despite his prodigious talent, he's probably struggled just enough at AAA this year to avoid the "untouchable" tag that Jay Bruce earned with his second-half performance last year in AAA. I'm guessing Rasmus will only avoid that untouchable tag for another month or two, as he too conquers AAA pitching in the second half of this season, so this could be the last chance for any team to even have a prayer of acquiring him for any offer. If you are casual fan, you probably haven't heard Rasmus' name nearly as much as Bruce's, but the experts perceive Rasmus and Bruce's upside and career projection as very similar.
And that's what we're all looking for the A's to acquire, isn't it? A truly premier offensive player, capable of hitting 30 homers annually and providing a constant threat in the middle of the order. They're so rare, you can't nitpick about the fact that Rasmus is a left-handed hitting outfielder, even if you wish that he was a right-handed hitting shortstop or third baseman. If you're the A's, you try to get him if you can, and you recognize that only a rare combination of luck and fate created a scenario where the A's could instantly upgrade the Cardinals at five different spots on their big-league roster and set them up to push past the Cubs and Brewers to eventually lead the NL into the World Series.
Can the Cardinals afford all this? I'll admit that's a reasonable concern, considering they started the year with a $99MM payroll. However, they have a shiny new stadium, terrific attendance, and they'll have $20MM coming off the books after this season from Looper, Isringhausen, and Encarnacion alone. And more importantly...this is their time! The greatest hitter in the game, Albert Pujols, is theirs and theirs alone through 2011. When you have the greatest hitter in the game, that's the time to break the budget for a few years, and play for the World Series annually. If that means that instead you'll have to scrimp and save when the Contending Wheel has run its course and the dynasty's over, so be it. It might save your owner $126MM on Barry Zito.
For what it's worth, I think this is how the A's are planning to spend their money, long-term. In the next year and a half, if the five aforementioned players are jettisoned as I expect, it's foreseeable that payroll will drop down near Florida Marlins territory in the $35-40MM range, with Eric Chavez as the last link to the early 2000s dynasty. But have faith, because all that saved cash will end up being put to good use:
When Oakland's ballyhooed, soon-to-be-top-ranked farm system produces a flurry of impact pitchers, position players, and ultimately a contender, there will be a similar flurry of long-term extensions doled out and/or long-term money committed. In this hypothetical scenario, clearly Rasmus would be one of those deals, peaking right at the heart of the A's next dynasty. And when the time is right, that team payroll will suddenly explode from $35-$40MM in '09/'10 all the way up to $90MM in a hurry when the new stadium opens, all these prospects reach their arbitration increases, and 26-year-old Justin Upton signs an 8-10 year, $200M-plus free-agent deal in 2014 to lead the AL's new dynasty in Fremont.
Yep, I'm still dreaming that will happen.
Now it's your turn:
Is the basic framework of this deal - ignoring a "C" or "C+" prospect(s) that might come back with Rasmus, and basically sending the Cardinals Duke, Street, and Embree for sure - and maybe Crosby and/or Ellis if that's what seals the deal, depending on what the Cards prefer - is the basic framework of that deal fair? Would you do this deal if you were Billy Beane? Would you do it as the Cardinals' GM?
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Nobody is untouchable for the right price.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
But are we willing to pay that pirce?
Right now we are selling, not so muh as buying. And if we do trade a bunch to get Rasmus, we’d be sacraficing the things we could have gotten from selling those guys.
If we could get Rasmus for Ellis, Crosby and Embree, then hell yeah, go for it.
But if it was Duchscherer and Street for Rasmus, I don’t think it would be worth it. We could get more by selling them individually than that. This is assuming we trade Street when he is on a good stretch, and not his craptastic streak right now.
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Oh I agree
I’m just saying that whenever a GM says a prospect is untouchable, it’s never technically true.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
If they make more trades
they BETTER get an elite hitting prospect. There is nothing to suggest the A’s offense is going to be anything other than mediocre for the next five years, even if the pitching remains what it is, which is the best in baseball. In that formula, the A’s remain a perennial bridesmaid. If we don’t get such a hitter, we will have punted the last two seasons for nothing.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Daric Barton and Carlos Gonzalez are elite hitters
What the A’s need to do is open up their pockets and sign established hitters (Teixeira or Holiday). Or let go of some farm to gain them. It is obvious that the A’s have a problem developing good hitting. Named hitters would improve attendance as well.
On that note
What is the reaction to the A’s signing Teixeira when/if he hits the market this offseason?
I'd be kind of mixed on it
On the one hand, Tex is a good hitter, albe spending his time in hitters parks. We’d be spending the $ on past performances, bidding with the Yankees and so on, and maybe having to spend $100 on a 1B, never a good idea. And we’d be in the middle of rebuilding, so we’d have to wonder if Tex’s best years would be here by the time we’re good. To top that, our best hitting prospects in the minors are all at 1B; Sean Doolittle and Chris Carter.
On the other hand, we’d FINALLY have a good hitter who can run faster than 1.3 mph.
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Okay, I'm wrong about CarGon and Barton being "Elite"
but our disappointment about Barton’s rookie performance makes us unsure about the future.
One thing about acquiring Tex is not allowing him hit balls against us. Maybe we can get Adrian Beltre from the rebuilding Mariners. They both tear us up.
Looking at our achievements this year also, Tampa Bay and Milawakee, like Florida and Colorado before us. There is a good chance of a young team with new players being competitive. It seems like our pitching will always be good, and we just need one or two well-paid consistent good hitter(s) to lead. Tex can be what Chavvy was supposed to be.
A sink eating up 25% of the payroll?
I think Chavez is already fulfilling that role just fine…
Teixeira is a Boras guy. Some idiot GM will fall under his spell and pay Teixeira far more than he’s worth. It won’t be Beane.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Gonzo is still raw
And his minor league numbers don’t suggest elite hitter status. He’s still very young though.
Barton was a decent hitter in the minors, but not elite. He has 15-20 HR power max, and he hasn’t even gotten close to that yet and might not ever. He should develop into a good contact hitter with a good eye, but that’s it. That’s not the definition of an elite hitter.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Re: Crosby and Izturis.
I wouldn’t call Crosby “quite an upgrade.” He’s an offensive upgrade (as amazing as that is), but he’s a defensive downgrade. Crosby is also twice as expensive, making a very unattractive $5.25M next year.
If the A’s want to get rid of Crosby, they’re going to have to eat money, because right now, he would clear waivers.
I like the idea of trying to get Rasmus, though.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Geren's finally using Embree in a game in which we're losing instead of one we're winning!!!
Bad news? Its a game in which the score is close, meaning he still doesn’t realize that Embree is for blowouts.
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I would sell high on Duke
there are very few stats to support that he is going to maintain this kind of production, so his value is at an all time high. I’m not saying that he is going to be bad all of a sudden because I’m pretty sure that he is a pretty good pitcher, just a sub-2.00 ERA good. Also, he has never pitched this many innings in the majors and missed most of last year with injuries.
We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA
*just not a sub 2.00 ERA good
i hate typos
We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA
A well-reasoned and interesting idea.
I don’t know if the Cards will sell Rasmus to take a shot this year though, not with the Brewers and Cubs both pushing hard to get to the finish line in the Central/Wild Card races. If they think that Ludwick/Schumaker are going to keep producing and that Pujols and Glaus will both stay healthy and productive, though, then I can see where they’d be interested in upgrading both their pitching and their middle-infield, so your ideas have plenty of merit.
Would I do Duke/Embree/Ellis for Rasmus and a throw-in? Probably. Would they? Probably not… but perhaps they’d do Duke/Embree/Ellis/Crosby or Duke/Street/Crosby (more likely- I just can’t see the A’s trading both Ellis and Crosby in one deal, or this season) or maybe even Duke/Embree/Crosby.
I don’t know- it seems like the payroll and roster issues would be tough to navigate, so maybe we’d have to take Kennedy or Izturis back in the deal, too.
Maybe they just want to strengthen the ‘pen and middle infield though, and would do Street/Embree/Ellis or Street/Embree/Crosby- in theory, I think one of those deals should be enough to land Rasmus and in theory the A’s could live without those guys going forward, too, even for the duration of this season (Petit up, Devine back, Gio up from AAA and into the rotation with Braden and DiNardo into the ‘pen.)
Then there’s always the endless speculation that the Dodgers would trade Laroche for some relief pitching and middle-infield help, too. I don’t see Colletti doing anything though (and I also don’t know if I see Colletti being the GM after this season.) I could see Embree/Crosby being of real interest to them for Laroche, and if it even took Street/Crosby to get it done I think I’d be interested and could see that deal working out well for both sides.
Would getting Laroche be even comparable to getting Rasmus, though? Not quite, from what I know.
Anyway, your idea is an interesting one- and one more reasonable recipe for potentially obtaining what is sorely lacking at the moment and, really, going forward.
by still bills kingdom on Jul 20, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions
i love rasmus
but we need non-1b infielders! we got 2b wrapped up but not ss or 3b.
Could we trade any arrangment of embree/crosby/street/duke for ian stewart or andy laroche or matt gamel?
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Jul 20, 2008 10:01 PM PDT reply actions
word on the street
is that the dodgers are looking for a ss… could we swap bocro for andy laroche?
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Jul 20, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
link
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/58591
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Jul 20, 2008 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if Rasmus is the guy to do this with but...
I think the basic theory is sound enough.
In this case though, neither Ellis or Crosby is going to appeal to the Cards. Therefore the deal would have to be Duke+Street+Embree. You would definitely need some solid secondary prospects coming with Rasmus.
I’m still not sure I’d pull the trigger though. Trading those three pitchers individually would bring in a good haul. You could then mix and match and put together a deal similiar to the Garza/Young package from last Fall.
So not a bad idea nsj, I’m just not sure it’s one I’d use.
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