Durham to Milwaukee

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 10:12 AM PDT

(Editor's Note: The trade is for Darren Ford and Steve Hammond) According to this ESPN article , Durham is going to the Brew Crew, probably for prospect Darren Ford and someone else.

I don't mean to be mean, but I highly doubt Durham is going to help the Milwaukee do anything more than fill up their DL further on down the road. This is a good way for the Giants to dump Durham, but it also makes me wonder if there is a market for the A's to sell off some of their 2b? I personally feel that the A's should sign Ellis and trade off some of their 2b prospects in the Minors. Cardenas (who looks like another Placido Polanco to me) looks good but he's in A ball, and I am not that high on Patterson (though admittedly he just may have not had enough time to prove himself in the majors). Plus, Jemile Weeks may not be the answer either. Are there any good prospects the A's could get back for our minor league 2b's? Do the Giants make any sense to trade with (I have no respect for Sabean as a GM, and I think Beane could pick his pocket)?

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Your solution to "each of these guys may individually not be the answer"

is “trade them away”?

That’s a strange perspective. BTW, Placido Polanco is a good player.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 11:36 AM PDT 0 recs

Also, Cardenas is nowhere near as funny looking

He doesn’t look like Placido at all.

by nevermoor on Jul 20, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'd say that Polanco is a decent player

and someone who’s not going to hurt your team, but he’s not going to push your team to a championship either. If we had one of the three 2b playing as well as Polanco, I would be happy assuming we have above average hitting (esp. some power) coming from other positions, but right now I just don’t see where we are going to get that power. Maybe trading these prospects isn’t the right thing to do, and I just realized how young Cardenas is, so he definitely could be the anser 2-3 years down the road (when we should be superbly good if some/most of our prospects pan out). I, as a fan, would just love to see some hitting so that every time I watch the A’s fall behind by more than 2 runs in a game, I can have hope that maybe they erase the deficit, rather than this season where it pretty much takes a miracle to do so.

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

*answer

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ehh,,

Durham is probably an upgrade on Rickie Weeks, that’s how badly Weeks has been playing.

Neither of the reported prospects going back to the Giants are anything special.

As for the Giants, when was the last time Beane and Sabean made a trade? Or were even rumoured to be talking about a trade?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 11:39 AM PDT 0 recs

when was the last time the Giants had a non-untouchable player Beane would have any interest in?

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 20, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well, DyeLongJustice is

saying that he has no respect for Sabean, and is wishcasting for another Liriano. Given that, I doubt that he is lusting after Nate Schierholtz or Fred Lewis; rather he probably does want someone either untouchable, Lincecum / Cain / Villalona, or close to it, Bumgarner / Alderson.

Also, who knows who is untouchable or not to Sabean? He seriously mulled a Lincecum for Rios trade. OTOH, he responded to a Crede trade offer by offering Dave Roberts in return.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

I just don't like Sabean because

a) he likes to sign old veterans, especially ones he let go 3 years earlier because they were too old b) he likes to overpay for a lot of players (Zito and Rowand, although Rowand is playing well) c) he’s not nearly as Beane at acquiring talent or value through trade (and yes this is biased b/c I’m an A’s fan)...and finally d) anyone who has that amount of resources should not have that bad of an offense

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oh I don't think much of Sabean either

but wishing for an elite prospect / player is a different thing, especially when you want to sell off some of the A’s 2b prospects for that. Since Sabean loves vets, why would he want the likes of Not Corey?

And Zito and Rowand aren’t really comparable. Zito was clearly an overpay, unless you seriously believed that Barry Zito 2002 was somehow going to reappear. Rowand is much more debatable. He’s pretty much as good a player as Torii Hunter, though not as durable, nor as consistent. Hunter got a far bigger contract.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

good point

about Sabean loving vets rather than the rookies…just another reason to hate Sabean I guess…and if you can’t tell, I’m just bitter about being swept this weekend by the Yanks, so I have to make myself feel better by hating on the team across the bay

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

Having ANY "untouchable"players is probably why Sabean is a terrible GM

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 20, 2008 8:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

Lincecum-for-Rios almost happened...

Somehow he was not untouchable this past offseason

"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 21, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

would there be any good reasons to get weeks?

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 20, 2008 1:14 PM PDT 0 recs

well, we did get juston street and ryan doolittle.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 20, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

I think we should hire Bobby Beane to be assistant GM

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 20, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

why stop there

when we can acquire all 20 of the molina catchers…we’ll never have a catcher problem again

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

good for Sabean

by OaklandSi on Jul 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT 0 recs

I strongly disagree with this post

Ellis is getting old – 31 this year – and showing it in his depressed offensive stats this season. He is a great defensive second baseman but that will begin to fade as he ages. It’s a bad idea to sign him to anything more than a 2 year contract.

Cardenas is SICK. He is the best 2b prospect in the minors out of any team. You don’t know what you are talking about. Most middle infielders don’t have any power when they are 19-20 years old. PS: Cardenas hit 30 doubles and 9 bombs last season so actually he does have power. PPS: Polanco is a good second baseman I would be happy if Cardenas turned out exactly like him. Good avg, high obp/plate discipline, doubles hitter, and good defense.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 20, 2008 3:41 PM PDT 0 recs

I have to agree about Cardenas, but not about Ellis

I think saying that Ellis is declining is a bit premature at this point in time. His LD% has actually upticked a slight bit, his bb/k have doubled, he is on target to hit 16 hrs (better than most of the team btw), he has a career high in SB, and his defense as he ages will still probably be just as good as the average major leaguer considering he is starting out higher than them. The only blemish on his stats this year is his BA, which probably is due to the fact that he has an abnormally low BABIP for himself (.249 compared to his career avg of .295). I think Ellis most likely has just been unlucky in that department this year. Maybe he will decline and your probably right that its not smart to give him too much money or sign him too long, but I think he’ll be productive until 35 years old at the least. And for the record, I should have looked more into Cardenas’ stats before writing this post, because now that I have had time to look at them, I realize that he could potentially be better than Polanco. I apologize for hating on him.

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

Awww, man...

When I saw the title of this Fanpost, I thought it would be a travelogue…

I want an A's-Rays ALCS.

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jul 20, 2008 4:44 PM PDT 0 recs

How did Sabean

manage to get anything for Durham. As far as Ellis being old, sure he is, but he is the best fielding 2b in the game, and it sucks that he doesn’t get any credit for it from the media. Sure he isn’t tearing it up at the plate but is anyone not named R. Sweeney tearing it up right now. His defense is too valuable to this team, especially with all the pitching talent that the A’s have. Let’s cut him some slack as he is always out there every day trying his hardest.

by In Beane we trust on Jul 20, 2008 4:52 PM PDT 0 recs

and he is damn good

We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

Sabean actually seems to be decent at dumping worthless veterans' salaries

He should try doing it more often.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

we could hire him

to try to get rid of chavez…

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

Brian Sabean: Reverse Agent

...sounds like a bad spy movie

"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 20, 2008 6:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

Actually Chavez needed a year for his back surgery to actually get back to normal much like Kotsay.

I really think Chavez will be his good old self in 2009. I also think that both Cargon and Swooney will be better next year. If we can just get someone like Rasmus (spelling) then our long term outfield and hitting will look pretty good.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Jul 20, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

Emil

Can we get something for Brown??

by Larry E on Jul 20, 2008 7:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

only if Sabean trades him to the Giants first

Waiiiiiiiiit a second …

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 20, 2008 7:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

sadly, he'd probably upgrade the Giant's outfield

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 7:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

What?

There’s no way I would play Emil Brown over Fred Lewis, Randy Winn or Aaron Rowand.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

But he's on the Giants and Giants SUCKL0LZROFFLE!

Seriously, some of the comments in this thread are silly.

Sabean is a terrible GM and the Giants are, overall, not a good team. But to act as if every player they have now sucks and Sabean only does stupid things always is ridiculous. Getting a couple minor leaguers for an effective, but aging and injury prone player with a sorta large salary is a nice deal. Durham is a very nice player who will help the Brewers, and his spot will open up for a young player to try to prove himself.

It’s sad that this turned out to be nothing more than a Giants bashing thread instead of a legitmate look at the trade.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 20, 2008 8:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

Fred Lewis, Randy Winn, Aaron Rowand

John Bowker. Emil is nowhere close to being as good as any of those. From Dave Roberts is healthy, he’s not as good as Roberts either.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 21, 2008 12:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

Sabean

managed to get something for Durham, because Durham really isn’t that worthless of a player. For one, he’s outhitting Ellis. For another, he’s one of the better offensive 2b in MLB. He’s defense is very poor. yes. Some of those who’re better than Durham offensively, are also crap fielders, like Uggla and Kinsler. Also, Weeks is playing really badly. He’s D is almost as bad as Durham’s. Offensively, he’s struggling badly.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 21, 2008 12:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

No, but they are playing Eugenio Velez out there some lately...i'd rather go with emil

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 20, 2008 8:21 PM PDT 0 recs

Durham would be the second best hitter on the A's current 25-man roster

I’m not exactly sure how that’ worthless. He’s a huge offensive upgrade over Weeks, and unless he goes out there after getting his hands and feet chopped off he’s not any worse defensively either. It’s a little sad to see such “Giants players suck because they play sorta nearby the A’s” bias here.

Great trade for Milwaukee based on filling a need, though I don’t know much about the guys they gave up.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 20, 2008 8:27 PM PDT 0 recs

Not much, but just dumping the salary was a plus for the Giants

I think the trade was a win for the Giants. You may be right that Weeks is just so bad that anything is an upgrade, but I don’t think Durham really is this good anymore and he really is awful defensively. He could play in short right center and he still wouldn’t get to most of the balls that aren’t hit directly to him.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 8:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

But Weeks is like 12 years younger and is just as awful

He might get to more balls, but it’s sorta hard to make plays with stone hands. Overall, I don’t think Durham will be a defensive downgrade.

I did sort of expect Durham to go to a team who could use a backup 2B/DH type (sorta how the A’s used him in 2002). Milwaukee is a bit of a surprise.

Do they have anything left to give the A’s for Street, Embree, or Casilla (yes, I’m throwing that out there. I don’t trust him and he’s not exactly young)?

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 20, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Meh.

Unless the salary is being saved up for signing Buster Posey, I don’t see how dumping his salary is a plus. The guys they got back are all roster filler types, who optimistically project as 4th OFs, 4-5th starters.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 21, 2008 12:21 AM PDT up 0 recs