I Hate Deja-Vu: Back to Back Bullpen Collapses Possibly Change Season For A’s
Well, I’m going to try to wade through the damage done by our “set-up men” over the last two nights, painful as it may be. The abridged version of this sad story is that on two consecutive days the A’s got enough from their starting pitching and offense to win two huge games against the division leaders, yet fell horribly short in the most disgusting of ways, and the fact that this happened twice in less than 24 hours is enough to frustrate even the most stalwart A’s fan right now.
In defense of Geren (feel free to debate at will the decision to pull Eveland in the sixth), despite the full ‘pen, he is not working with a lot of options right now, which is why you hope that the A’s could have managed to find enough good relief pitching to take at least one of the games. To me, it seemed like Geren hedged his bets to save pitching for both games, and I absolutely think this was a mistake. I would have rather blown out our entire ‘pen last night to get the series win, and not worried about today’s game at all. It doesn’t get worse than losing both of these games; the A’s had a very real chance of being 3.5 games back at the close of this series, and are now 5.5 back, and in danger of falling further behind next weekend.
But while Geren’s bullpen moves can be scrutinized in multiple threads until we are tired of it, the real truth is that the only relief pitcher who has provided any actual relief has been Brad Ziegler, and he can’t pitch every inning. The A’s were screwed last night when Harden only went five; had he pitched the sixth, Geren may have left Ziggy in for both the seventh and the eighth to get to Street. Instead, he used one of his everyday guys, and Embree failed. But who would you have rather had in that position? Brown got shelled in his last outing, Foulke appears to be done as an effective pitcher (see: today’s game), Casilla can’t stop giving up homeruns (see: today’s game), and Street can’t effectively pitch two innings. Even Gaudin gave up a run today in his inning. Put plainly, with the lone exception of Brad Ziegler (who was untouchable), the bullpen failed the A’s the last two days in every way, and I’m not sure there was a combination of pitchers that could have won either of those games, unless our manager was willing to risk Harden for an additional inning (NO), or our rookie relief pitcher for three innings and 30+ pitches (NO). Be angry all you want, but when pitchers that you have to count on to get to the closer aren’t doing their job, there isn’t anything a manager can do about it. But the truth is that the bullpen cost us not only the series win, but possibly the series sweep, and considering their success over the first half of the year, this is a bitter pill to swallow.
Eveland pitched a good game (even striking out the side in the fifth), despite his early hook. He allowed the first Angels’ run to score on a wild pitch; not exactly what the team was hoping for when they started the day, with the hot-hitting Suzuki getting a day off, and Sweeney, R maybe (hopefully) just resting his ankle. The Angels’ scored their second run in the second with a runner on third and the A’s infield in, but although Eveland got the ground ball, Crosby threw it away at home (in an interesting fielder’s choice call) to score the run.
The A’s got on the board in the fourth, as Crosby singled, but Emil Brown ruined a perfectly good double (which scored Crosby on the wild throw) by getting himself thrown out trying to take third. In later at-bats, he would fail to score a runner from third with one out, and almost hit into a double play. But he still finished the day better than Cust, who seemed to strike out in every at-bat in this series.
The sixth inning brought temporary happiness for A’s fans, as seldom-played Donnie Murphy worked a 13 pitch walk to lead off the inning, and after Rajai Davis doubled, Mark Ellis singled them both in; Davis seemingly running through a stop sign. Crosby moved Ellis to third with the first out of the inning, but Brown struck out, and failed to score the A's fourth run.
But it wouldn’t matter much. Exactly like last night, the A’s didn’t hold the go-ahead run for longer than ten minutes. After Eveland got the first out of the sixth, Hunter smashed a 3-0 pitch for a double. Eveland got the second out with no movement from the runner, but Geren hooked him after 99 pitches (and he wasn’t happy) in favor of the Foulke/Kotchman match-up. For those of you playing at home, yes, that is the LHP removed for a RHP on a LH batter.
To say that the match-up didn’t quite work would be a slight understatement. Foulke copied the playbook from last night, and not only did the tying run score, but he gave up a two-run homerun (Rivera’s first) to put the Angels up 5-3.
To add insult to injury, the Angels teased the A’s in the seventh, as a botched double-play pulled the A’s within a run. Of course, the A’s offense failed for the second time on the day to get another runner home from third, but the bullpen (this time Casilla/Gaudin) made sure that the game wouldn’t end with a one run loss (Final Score 7-4). I guess that’s something.
Gonzalez, Ellis, and Crosby had pretty good days at the plate, but it’s hard to muster much joy for them, especially when Crosby had to leave the game after hustling out a single in the eighth. I’m sure he’s day-to-day. Wes Bangston made his major league debut, and it was uneventful; he is still looking for his first hit (0-4 on the day). I don’t blame the offense in this series; they did enough to win, and Eveland certainly did his part. You can what-if it to death; the A’s certainly had their chances to score more, but really all of the blame lies with Foulke, much like Embree last night. The A’s had a better-than-average chance at the series win (and possibly a series sweep) had either game got to Street, and it just didn’t happen. And for the life of me, I can’t imagine it hurting more than it does against the Angels. Why the A’s seem to reserve the meltdowns for when it really counts, I’ll never know, but there is a lot of baseball left, and the season is not over.
The A’s need to regroup on the plane, figure out who can be used in the bullpen, and pray for some deep outings by their starters. Right now, I’d use Ziegler in the high-leverage situations, even for two innings, and maybe even regardless of the L/R splits. I'd also figure out if Casilla and Brown are really healthy, if Foulke can be shipped out when Devine returns, and if Travis Buck can possibly replace Emil Brown.
It doesn’t get any easier. The A’s limp into Chicago, home of the blazing-hot White Sox, looking to right the ship a little bit, and stay in the race.
I hope everyone has a happy holiday weekend and that things look better on Monday.
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probable pitchers for the ChiSox series:
The Duke vs Vazquez
Blanton vs Buehrle
Smith vs Floyd
Harden vs Danks
by SwisherThresher on
Jul 2, 2008 3:58 PM PDT
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I never want to see Foulke in an A's uni again!
That guy is getting worse and worse, and he’s more and more synonymous with FOULKING the A’s!!
Green Hulk Fists
by oaklandSMASH on Jul 2, 2008 3:52 PM PDT 0 recs
Nice couple of days
The A’s blow late-inning 1-run leads to the Angels on consecutive days, losing both games.
Chavez is put on the DL, and might face another (presumably season-ending) surgery.
Harden left his start early and “said he had a dead-arm kind of feeling, which he has had in the past and which is normal for pitchers around midseason.”
Crosby hurt himself beating out an infield single.
Thomas’ rehab might be delayed.
Someone has apparently kidnapped Embree, Casilla, and Brown, and replaced them with Rincon, Mecir, and Rhodes.
Ugh. I need a drink.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jul 2, 2008 3:56 PM PDT 0 recs
This might be my new sig...SO TRUE.
Someone has apparently kidnapped Embree, Casilla, and Brown, and replaced them with Rincon, Mecir, and Rhodes.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:00 PM PDT
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a nightmarish sig line if I ever dreamt of one.
alaska A
by ak_A on
Jul 2, 2008 6:28 PM PDT
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Because Geren is now loss-prone
He made horrible moves two nights in a row, and since these games cost double, he lost us four games!!
Green Hulk Fists
by oaklandSMASH on
Jul 2, 2008 4:00 PM PDT
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Do things ever look better on a Monday?
Seems like we’ve played a lot of good teams lately, even if the Phillies were on a losing streak they were still in first place.
[shrugs] Tomorrow’s another day. We’re still doing well, we’re over .500.
by paradox on Jul 2, 2008 4:00 PM PDT 0 recs
Giants aren't good
Even though we were stupid to taunt them.
by WaddellCanseco on
Jul 2, 2008 7:38 PM PDT
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What a difference two days make
We need to do something to avoid the funk that could end our hopes this season. I vote that we go out and sign Bonds and maybe MacPherson (assuming Crosby is hurt). Even if they don’t perform it could have a placebo effect and at least it would get Emil out of the lineup. Hopefully Murphy can fill in for Crosby and show some of the promise that got him a .897 OPS at AAA. Murphy still is only 25. I don’t get why he hasn’t gotten a shot; he deserves it.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jul 2, 2008 4:00 PM PDT 0 recs
Can't we just agree it's been discussed sufficiently
and put it to rest?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 4:13 PM PDT
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LOL.
Agree? On anything? Puhleeze.
pam5981: Patience is a virtue that I do not possess.
ohtobe21likehuston: But you're good at drinking and cussing. Two out of three ain't bad.
by pam5981 on
Jul 2, 2008 4:31 PM PDT
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True, but the reasons to sign him keep getting stronger
1- Cust is hitting horribly.
2- Chavez is out (Chavy also was DH often this year)
3- Thomas was expected to be back by now.
4- The offense keeps getting worse and he won’t cost us other players.
5- His playing time probably won’t impact our young prospects (unless you consider Cust a young prospect).
6- I and others have commented that its starting to look way too close to 2007. Bringing in Bonds will stir things up.
7- What do we really have to lose. Its not like we will be forking out millions of dollars. Its not like we couldn’t use the attention of the press and sports world.
by Yellowhorse on
Jul 2, 2008 8:22 PM PDT
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30 teams have declined to add him,
presumably even for chump change (if that’s true) – there has to be a reason. Whether it’s that he’s too rusty, not mobile enough to run the bases, there are secret orders from Selig, whatever – every team would improve to add the Bonds we know to the lineup and every team isn’t so much as talking with him. It’s not an “A’s” thing, obviously.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 8:28 PM PDT
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Correct, however due to the recent bad news of injuries and other problems
I am more and more pushed to saying yes.
It wasn’t a good idea early in the pre-season when he wanted millions.
Also, when Thomas was brought in it made no sense.
Actually, in the early stages of thomas and Sweeney’s injury when it looked like they would be back soon it didn’t make sense.
Now it does.
That being said you are probably right. There may be several reasons behind the scenes not to bring him in.
However, the A’s probably make the most sense for several reasons.
by Yellowhorse on
Jul 2, 2008 8:38 PM PDT
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that's LOLanding type of crazy, grasping at straws blog talk!
alaska A
by ak_A on
Jul 2, 2008 6:30 PM PDT
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Amen!
Why on earth is Cust still playing? I posted a while ago about replacing him with Bonds and received a lot of flak. Jack Cust is just plain doo-doo.
And I’m tired of hearing Fosse say how Cust has got such a “great eye” at the plate! If he has such a great eye, why does he lead the world on called 3rd strikes?!
Please, please, PLEASE sign Bonds!
by petitceebee on
Jul 2, 2008 4:15 PM PDT
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Sigh
Let me try a different tack here.
You know Russell Branyan? The guy who has hit 11 home runs in 29 games for the Brewers? You know what he did last season? He hit .196 and got waived by three different MLB teams before eventually finding himself out of work altogether.
OK. Russell Branyan is a worse hitter than Jack Cust.
Guys like Branyan, like Cust, like Pat Burrell and Ryan Howard, “three true outcomes” guys, are invariably streak hitters. Burrell was damn near run out of Philadelphia in the first half of last season. Since then? Well, he’s basically been the best hitter in the NL, or damn close. Now Howard’s slumping instead. OK. Deal with it.
It’s the price you pay to do business with that kind of bat. The price really isn’t that high, or at least it wouldn’t be if the fans weren’t constantly whining about it. The alternative is a lineup filled with weak-kneed, pussyfoot singles hitters like Erick Aybar. Those lineups suck. There’s a good reason why the Minnesota Twins have had problems scoring runs this decade—because of their front office’s obsessive fetishization of batting average.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 4:39 PM PDT
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Today might not be the best day
to be making cracks about Erick Aybar’s power.
But, yeah, Cust has had a couple of bad slumps and he’s still been the A’s best hitter overall (not counting Frank Thomas, who has only played in a third of their games) by a fairly wide margin.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on
Jul 2, 2008 4:49 PM PDT
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Ryan Sweeney has been the A's best hitter
IMO
Cust is a mistake hitter who walks a lot and has power.
Ryan Sweeney is developing into a very promising hitter
by Trainman on
Jul 2, 2008 7:12 PM PDT
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Cust is a mistake crusher.
He’s been easily better than Sweeney, who may well develop into a good hitter, maybe more effective than Cust.
by WaddellCanseco on
Jul 2, 2008 7:40 PM PDT
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Cust is a bit overrated, IMO, by the stat folks
who gush at his OBP-with-some-HRs combo. When you balance out the hot and cold streaks, you are left with a guy who hits around .240 with an OBP around .360, and around 25-30 HR power. That’s basically Nick Swisher with less contact (that is, if Swisher were a bad LFer instead of a good OFer and good 1Bman, but we’re not talking about defense). Cust is good, but he’s not great. Only in the A’s lineup does he look like someone you’d really consider batting in the middle of the order. He kills the A’s when he’s cold.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 7:59 PM PDT
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Cust
is a perfect 6-hitter in a lineup. If you’re counting on him to lead your offense, as we are, then you’re in trouble. If all of our hitters were healthy you could have Chavez, Thomas, Sweeney, and then Cust. That would be a good lineup. But with Cust occupying the slot that you normally associate with the most reliable hitter in the lineup it’s only ever going to lead to nightmares.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Jul 2, 2008 8:04 PM PDT
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I agree. Cust would be fine
batting around 5-7th on a decent hitting team. However, he cannot be counted on to carry a team.
HE is not the major problem with the team’s offense.
Without Chavez, Sweeney and Thomas we should add another strong hitter.
by Yellowhorse on
Jul 2, 2008 8:24 PM PDT
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Cust's career OBP,
even counting his sucktacular first few years of plate appearances, is .387. There is a huge value difference between a .360 OBP and a .387 OBP. The difference is probably 10 runs a year, or putting it more graphically, the difference between league-average and playoff level.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 9:38 PM PDT
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But when are those 10 runs going to come? While he is struggling you
don’t see the benefits of that , and since the rest of the team isn’t hitting, what good is Jack doing sitting on 1st base, when he is just walking and striking out. He has a very high .obp, but I bet his rs/g is low relative to others who have a high obp.
by theblackpearl on
Jul 3, 2008 10:40 AM PDT
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True Outcomes
A phrase I’ve never heard, but then again I don’t read the detailed baseball blogs. What are “true outcomes” guys and why are they invariably streak hitters?
by richwol1 on
Jul 2, 2008 6:09 PM PDT
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Means they basically only ever do a couple things
In Cust’s case he only ever walks, strikes out, or hits a homer.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on
Jul 2, 2008 8:05 PM PDT
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Right
The three true outcomes—walk, K and home run. “True” in the sense that they reflect truly on the hitter and pitcher, and don’t involve the defensive abilities of the pitching team.
(OK, actually a HBP is a true outcome too. But let’s not get fussy.)
Why are those guys invariably streak hitters? Hm. Good question. I think part of the answer is that because they tend to have low batting averages, the damage they do is highly concentrated. I think part of it is self-fulfilling prophecies by managers who write them out of the lineup on days when they’re in a perceived slump and may unintentionally prolong it by getting them to press or giving them inconsistent playing time.
I doubt that’s a full explanation, but quite frankly I don’t have a full explanation. It’s an empirical observation rather than a deduction.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 9:45 PM PDT
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Thanks
I suspect the low batting averages and the streakiness are inter-related. If you had a player that kept up the pace all year, it would wind up being a career year - and if the pace continued for an entire career, you’d get someone like Mickey Mantle, who finished his career with a .298 average but also had an on-base percentage of .421 (to go with 536 homers) and remains one of the career leaders in strikeouts. In Mantle’s last year, when his knees were so bad he could barely walk, he finished with a .237 average but had an OBP of .385. I don’t know for a fact, but it wouldn’t surprise me that he was streaky that last year, and that when he was hot, he was very very hot (he finished with 18 homers, but that was 1968, the year that all the pitching records were shattered) and when he was cold, he was very cold.
by richwol1 on
Jul 2, 2008 11:30 PM PDT
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It's possible to sustain a high average with high strikeouts
but unless you’re hitting Bondsian numbers of home runs, the only way to do that is by having a high average on balls in play. Those guys tend to be power/speed guys like Curtis Granderson and Grady Sizemore (and like Mantle before his body imploded, for that matter).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 11:55 PM PDT
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Ha ha
Paul, when I read a reply like this one, and I imagine what you must be feeling as you write it, I can truly understand why you never frequent the game threads.
(And if you were considering it … seriously, don’t.)
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on
Jul 2, 2008 10:25 PM PDT
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Good analysis, baseballgirl, though I'm not sure
why you so quickly dismiss Ziggy, a submariner who hadn’t had a heavy workload lately, throwing 30+ pitches on a day he was pitching as well as he’s ever pitched (apparently he even said he was surprised at how good his fastball was – normally mid-80s, was getting up to 90). I think that was our best inroad to a series win. Today’s loss, however painful, was a blown lead in the 6th inning – there were a lot of outs yet to get. Last night’s we were poised to grab.
One more for your list, andeux: The Giants are closer to first place than the A’s are.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 2, 2008 4:11 PM PDT 0 recs
Zig's been up in the pen a lot this week
And it still a rookie (only a couple of years or so into this new arm move). I just didn’t think it was smart to run him out another inning, even though every bit of me wanted him too (I was at the horrible game).
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:47 PM PDT
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That's "is still a rookie"
And with twelve more games to go without an off-day…?
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:48 PM PDT
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Huh
You know, someone noticed a couple of weeks ago that the A’s bullpen performances were wildly out of line with what would have been expected from them coming into the season. And that, in particular, Keith Foulke had peripherals suggesting an ERA in the mid-4s, not the mid-2s. That someone was roundly mocked for being a defeatist and for suggesting that the team maybe didn’t want to commit too heavily to “contention” for this season.
What do you know, since then Foulke’s given up 3 jacks and had his ERA rise a run and a half, and the bullpen has blown several late leads. Hm. Sounds like someone was right when he said that the team was playing over its head.
And what do you know, turns out that someone was me.
It’s worth remembering the words of Fight Club—this team is not a beautiful and unique snowflake. It is not immune to regression to the mean. It does not have 4 relievers with true-talent ERAs under 2.00.
The next week and a half should tell the tale of the tape. If the team isn’t any closer by the Break, it’s time to move to Phase 2 of the rebuilding project.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 2, 2008 4:15 PM PDT 0 recs
I'm a big defender of yours...
...and I think you are one of the smartest people on AN. But you are not helping your cause out with posts like this. People will remember when you are right, especially because you are smart, and you’re usually right. But people will root against smugness every time.
You were probably 100% right about Foulke, and the A’s stole many, many innings from him in April/May/June. I’m sure the A’s managment will see it, and possibly let him go when Devine comes back. A month ago, we would have figured Ziggy would go back down, but I can’t see that happening right now.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:57 PM PDT
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Yeah, you're probably right
I blame the Imp of the Perverse.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 5:14 PM PDT
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+1
The fans are sufficiently hurting to make it not a good time for an “I told you so” post.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on
Jul 2, 2008 6:13 PM PDT
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You weren't really "roundly mocked"
There were all of two people arguing with you about Foulke in this thread, and a couple of others here about the bullpen as a whole (no one mentioned Foulke specifically). And none of those people really qualifies for “AN spokesperson” status.
On your other point – you’re right, this week could well be the tipping point leading to some more veterans being traded away for prospects, in the same way that some bad news about injuries led to Phase 1 over the winter. Whether that turns out to be the case probably will have more to do with the medical news on Chavez, Harden, and Crosby than with the not-terribly-surprising struggles of Embree and Foulke. But as you also said in one of those threads:
The best time to trade your players is when no one wants to trade them and the worst time to trade them is when everyone wants them dealt.
Right now many of our most obvious candidates for trades are either struggling (Embree, Foulke, Blanton) or possibly hurt (Harden and Crosby). So even if Beane is determined to throw in the towel on this year, that might not result in any moves until much closer to the deadline.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on
Jul 2, 2008 5:09 PM PDT
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Oh, yeah, absolutely on the latter point
In fact, other than the real short-termers (and none of them really has any value at this point—the only free agent to be with trade value is Ellis, and he will probably be extended) there’s no rush to trade anyone. It might well be that the correct “rebuilding” move is simply to do nothing.
What I really mean is “establish that no prospects will be traded away for short-term upgrades.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 5:18 PM PDT
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where were youse guys defending me on this point in the game thread? :)
He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 2, 2008 6:06 PM PDT
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and I appreciated that
He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 3, 2008 9:22 AM PDT
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In a way
the best move to compete and the best move to rebuild is to do nothing. If these guys can’t show themselves capable of competing they hold no real value (as been correctly pointed out) but if they show they can compete, there really isn’t anyone who we could acquire (including a certain 40+ year old guy who hasn’t played since last september and who shouldn’t be counted on to maintain what he’s done) without jeopardize our future and short of an absolute sure thing to the post-season/world series, playing for this season isn’t worth the next 3/4+ seasons.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on
Jul 2, 2008 7:03 PM PDT
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Agreed - I think Beane never intended to buy
simply because he only intended to wait – to see how his players held up to the grind of being near Larry Davis and Clarence Cockrell. To trade up only to learn that Harden and Chavez were suddenly not feeling so great? Big mistake. One thing I’ve learned from the A’s is that it’s pointless to guess what moves will be made in a week because even the A’s don’t plan ahead, knowing the move is usually determined for them. Same with “buying” and “selling”.
What to expect? If a team wants a player enough to overpay, Beane will do it, and if not he won’t. Which isn’t breaking news, nor is it depending on a time of year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 5:18 PM PDT
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Easy to Blame The Pitching
When they only had the best ERA in the sport entering today’s game. Yes, the bullpen has regressed—but the simple fact is, as has been true for a couple of years now around here, injuries and underperforming hitting are the big culprits. No Thomas, No Chavez, No M Sweeney, No Swooney recently, No Casilla (until recently) or Devine, and poor hitting by Barton, Hannahan, Cust and Brown.
But I agree with PThomas—unless things get a lot better the next ten days, it’s time to embark on the next phase of rebuilging.
by windyfelix on Jul 2, 2008 4:23 PM PDT 0 recs
Yes and yes.
Offense is the culprit over all…but for these specific games, the bullpen didn’t get it done. It happens.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:52 PM PDT
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you know
I know moneyball’s been done to death, but isn’t one of the tenets to use your best pitchers in the high-leverage innings? Throw Street in the 7th and see where the game goes. Sure, all the media outlets would skewer Geren, but how is that different from getting skewered by bullpen meltdowns?
Okay, okay, never going to happen…
http://sonicliving.com
by whaxed on Jul 2, 2008 4:26 PM PDT 0 recs
Trouble is, the only way later innings are going to be lower leverage
(and therefore suitable for “lesser” arms) is if either the A’s score or Huston gives up runs, and I know which I’d bet on ;-)
by green star oakland on
Jul 2, 2008 4:39 PM PDT
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Along those lines, this loss wasn't really avoidable,
ultimately, because either Foulke or Casilla or Gaudin was going to have be used at some point to protect the lead and all failed. The 6th inning is just too early to have to go to the pen to protect a one-run lead – it’s exactly why Geren correctly tries to get his starters through 6-7 innings if he possibly can, even if they’re struggling in the 5th or 6th. Except today when he suddenly decided Eveland was done after 5.2 IP and 99 pitches. (?)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 4:53 PM PDT
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Yep, I would have let Eveland go; he was better than the 'pen.
Harden was 100% the correct call last night.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on
Jul 2, 2008 4:58 PM PDT
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No question on Harden -
and if my lip-reading was accurate, after the 5th inning he told Geren, “I can give you one more,” to which Geren obviously said “Thanks, but you’re done today.” Keeping Harden at 90-100 pitches is far more important than winning any given game, especially on a night when he is laboring and not feeling great.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 5:20 PM PDT
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Blessing in Disguise?
It’s July 2nd and we’re 5.5 games out of 1st Place. We might be 8+ back by the All-Star Break. And guess what??? I’m OK with it. This team needs more hitters like Ryan Sweeney and Carlos Gonzalez. So, it’s time to trade Harden, Street, and Blanton (if anyone will take him) for some young talented hitters (preferably a SS & 3B). Trade Foulke & Embree for even more yount talent.
It sucks that we lost to the Angels because we keep using guys (Embree & Foulke) in situations where are young guys (Brown, Casilla, Gaudin, Ziggy) need the experience.
This team isn’t making the playoffs as currently contructed. The A’s need more offense and healthy/young bodies.
by Colorado Fan on Jul 2, 2008 5:01 PM PDT 0 recs
Here's the problem: Contention will always rely
strictly on having excellent starting pitching – not good, excellent – because it’s the only equalizer to the “more resources” enjoyed by the A’s competitors. Those itching to dump Harden, or especially Duchscherer, should consider how much the A’s would need to add offensively in order to win with Blanton, Gaudin, Eveland, and Smith at the top of the rotation. Cahill and Anderson are a ways away, and Gio probably is too. I’d overpay to sign a plus-hitter on the FA market before I’d dismantle the rotation to try to get better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 5:23 PM PDT
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Pat Burrell is a free agent to be...
right handed slugger… from the Bay Area… walks a lot…
Come on, admit it makes way too much sense…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 5:34 PM PDT
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what would you think of signing Manny if the Red Sox (stupidly) decline his '09 option?
He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 2, 2008 6:07 PM PDT
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I don't think I'd want to sign him to a 5 year deal
I’d rather trade for him after the season and then pick up his option. This would also be better than giving Burrell a five year deal
by WaddellCanseco on
Jul 2, 2008 7:45 PM PDT
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I like that plan
He’s also got an option at the same price for 2010.
He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@
by monkeyball on
Jul 3, 2008 9:23 AM PDT
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Manny is both a. in decline and b. a fruitcake
He’s going to be overvalued.
Of course, Pat Burrell’s Captain Clutch act this year is incrementing the dollar signs on his contract expectations meter as we speak. I keep rooting for him to hit one of those atrocious slumps where he can’t hit anything for a month to pull his numbers down a little.
I guess we can always hope for an A-Rodian playoff series. Best case scenario, he makes some game-losing error in a playoff home game and has to go into voluntary exile from Philly.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 2, 2008 9:50 PM PDT
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Sadly, Burrell seems like one of those guys
who is bound to get overpaid on the FA market. And since he is past his prime and is having a great contract year, it’s probably best to let someone else take him on because he’ll command a salary beyond his worth.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
Jul 2, 2008 9:54 PM PDT
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I know, I know, it's a pipe dream
Like Fukudome before last season. IR


