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Fresh Philly Cupcakes Thread

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After digesting the cupcakes news, I don't have anything earth-shattering to add. But that other thread was getting pretty huge.

While I like this trade and the Harden trade (and wouldn't be opposed to trading Ellis, Duke, Street, Embree, and [if he's healthy] Chavez), I'm starting to have some FSU/Loria-esque suspicions that Wolff and/or Fisher may be looking to cash in their franchise-appreciation chips: clearing the decks of big salary commitments would be a good way to entice new principal owners (and who knows -- Wolff may be ready to either throw in the towel on Selig Acres at Fremont, or to disarticulate the development from the ballpark). I also wouldn't be surprised to see Beane go all Carlos Pena on Barton, and to throw him in to a potential Duke or Street deal as sweetener -- in addition to Barton looking entirely overmatched this year, Beane now has a wealth of 1B/DH options as well as a lot of potential high-OBP/low-power bats nearing readiness.

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I think they should hold on to Duch.

while not the bet idea to offer a big raise right now I think the A’s should keep him around for the next few seasons.

I think the A’s still have a pretty good team in 2008-2010. The young guys would benefit from a few good veterans around, especially a guy who has been in the playoff races of the past several years.

I think Barton would be a guy to trade as we do have some people who can play there for the rest of the year but more importantly are loaded with great 1b prospects.

I would love it for the A’s to trade Barton and a Good pitching prospect for a top notch prospect who could start at SS/ 3b next year.

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 9:13 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is Barton worth?

Nothing. No one is looking for first basemen who aren’t hitting.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2008 10:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Believe me, Barton is not worth "nothing"

He might be worth nothing to a team trying to win this year, but I guarantee you that plenty of GMs would love to have him in their system.

Not that I think the A’s should sell low on him, but I guarantee you he would fetch legitimate value in return. The top 50 prospect rankings weren’t pulled out of a hat, you know.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly

Trading him right now in this trough isn’t optimal, but as you say, he’s still a legit rookie/prospect, and could boost the potential return on a Street or Duke deal (how ironic would it be if we sent Barton back to the Cards as part of the price of prying away Rasmus?).

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would indeed be ironic

but I’m guessing the Cardinals aren’t really feeling a burning need for a first baseman right now.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

all the more reason to convert Barton back to third!

(Boy, I didn’t think that one through.)

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And then the A's Trade for him again ...

... because we don’t have any third base prospects!

by Eck on Jul 17, 2008 10:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Christ, what a Pujols

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 11:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now, that's today's QOTM!

Those were the reasons and that was New York, we were running for the money and the flesh.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 17, 2008 11:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

then again ...

Barton’s still got options (I think?) and is still relatively young, and Pujols is only under contract through 2010 (team option/buyout for ‘11). Reacquiring Barton and warehousing him in Louisville would give the Cards coverage if they wanted to trade Pujols or let him walk (not that either would be the smartest thing in the world).

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 18, 2008 1:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the "Carlos pena" quote is accurate

barton is super young. it might take him a year or two to become an above average major leaguer. but if we wait it could pay off. see pena 2007.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 17, 2008 9:15 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It took 5 years for Pena...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 9:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'd hate to have him now

He’s SO what we don’t need and besides, we’ve got DB at first….ooo, plus we got Ted Lilly for ~200 innings.

Good times.

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 1:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They got Ted Lilly for 4.5 seasons

The fact that Beane later traded 3 of those for Bobby Kielty is pretty irrelevant to evaluating that deal.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 18, 2008 1:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Isn't Barton the anti-Pena?

Wasn’t Barton supposed to be the guy with 15-20 HR potential but walks a lot and doesn’t strike out? Pena hits 40 bombs but Ks every other AB.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2008 10:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dissagree

I really doubt this move was a salary dump.

My reasoning is that by replacing Blanton with someone like Braden and you essentially have a wash, while if you replace Blanton with someone like Gio if he’s ready, you improve likely improve the rotation.

Getting rid of Blanton is addition by subtraction, the team got better today.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Jul 17, 2008 9:15 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I totally agree with you

I honestly think that the Harden and Blanton trades, combined, improved the team for this year and beyond. They were both smart moves at maximizing value. Neither was a plain “salary dump.”

However ... the payroll is being pared down to the bone, whether intentionally or not, whether as the primary, secondary, or ancillary motive. I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that the moves could be intended as simultaneously to improve the team’s ‘08 competitiveness, to bolster the farm system, and to reduce operating expenses and medium-to-long-term financial commitments in preparation for either simple profit-taking or to increase the marketability of the franchise.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 9:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And now I say:

Duke and Ellis for the Oakland shot at contention, the rest for the Fremont era.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clarification??

I’m sorry.

Are you saying trade Ellis and duke. for someone who can improve the team in 2008? or are you saying keep them to help us win in 2008?

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 9:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you mean me, Yellowhorse,

I mean keep Duke and Ellis to be as competitive as possible in 2009-2010, and let C. Gonzalez, Barton, Cahill, B. Anderson et al lead the way thereafter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought that is what you meant.

I agree with your analysis on Ellis and Duch.

The team is pretty decent overall once Crosby, Thomas and R. Sweeney return they are great upgrades over the players who were in their spots last weekend (Murton, Murphy, Brown).

I do think the team ought to look for an upgrade at 3b or 1b for this year if they knew Chavez or Sweeney wasn't coming back.
Other than that I think the A's will be fine for the next few seasons by just keeping the team they have and watching the young guys grow,

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 10:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not at all opposed to keeping those two

In order to have a realistic shot at making (and succeeding in) the playoffs, I think the A’s need Frank and Sweeney to come back healthy and effective and to either add a powerful (ideally RH) bat or have Barton clamber out of his funk.

I think part of the genius of these two moves is that, in addition to improving the team’s current contention status and future prospects, Beane has managed to announce that he’s open to dealing any/everyone without “waving the white flag” and engaging in a fire sale. He’s (ideally) going to have GMs clawing over each other to compete for his best trading chips, yet be in a position where he doesn’t have, or really need, to move them.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 9:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish the...

bandwagon (casual) fans….would actually read this, instead of always thinking Beane is “not in it to win for this year”.....sigh.

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 9:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

I still think that Beane can make some moves to upgrade the 2008 A’s without crippling the future.

Bonds would have made the most sense as he would help in 2008 and cost 0 prospects but its obvious the entire league has soured on him.

Trading Blanton is not a throwing in the towel move for 2008.

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 9:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just wanted to clarify

I promise I’m not a bandwagon/casual fan…..I know Beane would always love to win it all every year. I just believe his focus is definitely more on rebuilding this year than winning a championship.
Thats all I meant when I said he clearly wasnt in it to win it this year.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 9:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how was it so "clear"?

if the reports are to be believed, beane turned down rasmus for harden/r. sweeny, which would have defintely been a future for now trade….harden was a glass cannon, while blanton just had brain farts at the most inopportune times this year. my money is that gallagher + ptbnl can produce equivalent to them the the way.

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just seems clear to me

But it’s only my opinion…..and I’ve been wrong on plenty of occasions, and would welcome being wrong on this one.
I just felt the need to clarify my comment when you called me a bandwagon fan, thats all.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 10:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry, i didn't mean

to call you out…..just heard that mantra so many times today, especially listening to KNBR this afternoon….

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now that was your big mistake

KNBR has been garbage for quite some time.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

was bored...

during driving lessons, so tuned into it…..i wish there was a regular everyday broadcast for all things a’s…..

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bored and channel surfing during driving lessons?

Whether teacher or student, i hope you were at a golf course and not on the damn freeway….

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Jul 17, 2008 11:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well believe me

I can totally understand after listening to KNBR, they drive me nuts most of the time….. :-)
It’s no biggie though, and I appreciate the apology…I just had to let you know I’m not Bandwagon Material. I guess that just got under my thin skin a little. I never have time to read scouting reports or that kind of stuff, so I am definitely wrong in my opinions sometimes, and probably say things that I should probably research a little further before speaking about. But I just love talking A’s baseball, and always get the best education when I’m able to read up on all the latest on AN.
I’ve been bleeding green and gold since birth….the year of their first World Series Win in Oakland, and never looked back.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 10:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Believe me, i feel for you...

i sometimes think my heart was yanked away ever since they let McGwire go….and as much as I cheered on Harden and wanted that elusive no-no I was sure he was destined to get one day, logic dictates that his chance of getting one was as good as Blanton (due to the amount of innings Joe pitched even with slightly above mediocore stuff).

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 11:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm still not over McGwire....

Probably my first heartbreak right there, so probably why it stung the most.

Harden and Swisher have been rough for me this season too, even though on paper I’m sure they will work out for the best. Man…there is a laundry list of players I miss…...but there’s no crying in baseball, so I’ll leave it at that :-) (do I get a pass on this if I’m a girl?)

I was right there with you on the Harden no-no…....and I still hope (and believe he can) he gets it, .....just as long as it’s not in Interleague play against the A’s!

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 11:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Although to be fair

He has repeatedly said this is a rebuilding year. I can understand why someone who doesn’t follow things too closely would just assume these are rebuilding trades.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"bandwagon fans"

Do these even exist?

"There's only one Ken Griffey ." Jay Bruce

by tresselfan on Jul 18, 2008 6:09 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For us?

I must say that I was shocked at the number of A’s fans when I was in Chicago. The whole underdog/Moneyball/small market things appeals to a certain type. We ain’t the Yankees or the Red Sox, but we’ve gotten a few new converts over the last decade or so…

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 6:49 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps,

but the fans who follow the A’s for Moneyball reasons, are hardly likely to question a rebuilding approach. In fact, those fans are likely to be the most vociferous in support of rebuilding.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 11:16 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My feeling about how this affects 2008

is that granted, we could have upgraded Blanton’s spot in the rotation simply by letting Blanton progress towards his mean – in other words, Blanton post-ASB 2008 is probably going to be an upgrade from Blanton pre-ASB 2008. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone else (be it Gio, or Saarloos, or DiNardo) can probably pitch as well as Blanton had pitched, even if not as good as he may pitch the rest of the way.

So while we may have foregone the upgrade that is Blanton for himself, we haven’t gotten any worse. We lost most of Blanton’s starts before the ASB and played about .600 ball when it wasn’t his turn on the mound. So our chances to hang in the race appear to hinge more on the ability of Duke, Smith, Eveland, and Gallagher to continue excelling, more than they depend on whatever happens in Blanton’s spot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:24 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly my assessment

and I… hey! Where’d all my notes go????!!

Who ate the goat cheese in the refer??!!
Strange…not even Berkeley…

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 17, 2008 9:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Goats make cheese?

The ones I date know won’t even make me a sandwich.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, we are sort of gambling that Gio can come in and make an impact, we aren't just gettign by on our 1-4

i’ll be angry if dinardo or braden or saarloos take the rotation spot…that would have been ok with Harden on the roster still, but really at this point you have to promote a prospect and play on a wing and a prayer.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Jul 18, 2008 12:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh?
I’m starting to have some FSU/Loria-esque suspicions that Wolff and/or Fisher may be looking to cash in their franchise-appreciation chips: clearing the decks of big salary commitments would be a good way to entice new principal owners (and who knows—Wolff may be ready to either throw in the towel on Selig Acres at Fremont, or to disarticulate the development from the ballpark).

And, these suspicions are based on what exactly? Harden’s trade? Blanton’s trade? We all knew (or, at least, supposed) that both of these guys were on the trade block sometime during this season. Everything I see the A’s doing this year points in exactly the opposite direction of your suspicion.

Billy’s assembling a pitching superpower to dominate the West for at least half a decade. The Inoa signing bonus of $4.25 million strikes me as rather an odd move for an ownership ready to cash in its chips. The franchise appreciation hasn’t been even close to fully realized. This team is undervalued and Wolff knows it.

When Cisco Field opens in 2012, Lew will be a happy man.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 9:31 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Billy is looking to Atlanta's model

Where Atlanta won the NL East for …ten years in a row??

Using pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

He probably got momentum/inspiration when he saw Greg Smith turn in “Glavine-like” performances.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 17, 2008 9:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Atlanta's model included

paying three superstar pitchers superstar money. No way that happens here….

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Jul 17, 2008 11:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Windows Vista

I wrote a nice, long answer, and in the middle of it, Windows Vista shut down my entire computer to install who knows what, and I lost it.

In summary, Fischer/Wolfe is not Schott/Hofmann.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jul 18, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Win XP did this to me a bunch of times before I finally fixed it a week or two ago

I don’t know how different Windows Vista is, but in XP I fixed it by going to: Control Panel>Automatic Updates>and clicking “Download updates, but let me choose when to install them.”

Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Jul 18, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And it comes with Internet Exploder!

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 18, 2008 2:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what, exactly, is "exactly the opposite direction of [my] suspicion"?

Where did I say that Beane isn’t building the team to dominate the West for at least half a decade? While I think that projection is just a tad premature/overoptimistic, I agree with the sentiment.

Yes, $4.5M is a big one-time expense. But it’s a one-time expense, and on as apparently can’t-miss as a teenage pitcher can be. And it’s one that’s enabled by having pared payroll commitments for ‘08-10.

I’m not sure how you can say the franchise is undervalued - as you say, the team is set up to contend/dominate for the next 5 years, there are commitments in place to potentially put up a lucrative new stadium/revenue machine (or to simply continue the low-cost operations at the Coli, or to strongarm some other municipality in the Bay Area or elsewhere to host Selig Acres) - and the team has virtually no salary commitments for the next 3 years. Right now would be the optimal time for a new group (likely to include Beane) to step in.

And we’re starting to get awfully late in the game for a ‘12 opening.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 9:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my suspicion of your suspicion...

was that you were implying that Wolff was getting ready to sell. You seem to say as much in this response. Yet, if they will contend/dominate for the next 5 years on an extraordinaryly low payroll in almost any stadium environment you can envision, as you seem willing to concede, why would Wolff cash out now?

I don’t think he has any intention of doing so.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 10:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if Fremont ain't happening, Wolff's out

If Fremont is looking like it’s more hassle/time than it’s worth, he might be out. If, as with Beane and ballplayers, he’s developed the potential of the franchise to where someone else wants to pay through the nose for it, he’s definitely out.

Plus, you seem to be laboring under the impression that on-field performance has anything at all to do with the valuation of the team or the marginal revenue.

All that said—yes, absolutely, it’s just a gut-feel guess on my part.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not laboring under any such impression...

that on-field performance has anything to do with valuation. But, as you yourself pointed out. With reduced payroll comes a lower bar to meet to remain profitable. But, put a dominant team on the field with young players for 3 years, with maybe a WS championship thrown in for good measure. Guess what, valuation goes WAY up. Throw in Cisco Field, Wolff triples the value of the team from where it is today. What’s that… a commitment of 5 years? He ain’t sellin’.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 10:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On field performance has some effect on valuation.

I mean, it’s not an exact science, but making the playoffs a few years in a row can make a huge difference in your fanbase and revenue.

I get the point that some crap teams have a ton of value (see the Cubs in 2005/6), but I’m just saying that good on-field performance usually leads to more ticket sales and merchandise purchases.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 17, 2008 10:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no, I agree...

if you have a bunch of young, up-and-coming superstars who win a lot, on-field performance can enhance your revenue (see, late 80’s, early 90’s and 2000 to 2003 A’s). But, in terms of franchise valuation, it ain’t gonna make as big a difference as a new stadium and great TV contracts.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 11:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to stick my nose

in the proverbial soup (okay, it’s my own personal proverb), but I’m not sure you could separate any of those factors and say that this leads to that. Forgive my impertinence, but I think all of that would be anecdotal and unable to support any kind of causal relationship with one another, or even as a chain of events. Big market equates bigger television contracts equates new stadium equates higher franchise valuation.

Sure, you can connect the dots, but there doesn’t seem to be any sort of cause and/or effect, is there? You can pick it up the train anywhere, but eventually it’ll pull back into the same station…the Yankees are worth a lot of money, because they own their own televsion station because they’ve a big market and are building a new stadium because they’ve got a big market and own their own television station and are building a new stadium and so on and so forth…right? Or am I failing to see something?

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 7:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't so much think Wolffish are looking to sell now

Though I do expect that’s the post-stadium plan, when the fetching price would be high. I just think the Five Year Plan had radical rebuilding coinciding nicely with a stretch where they didn’t plan on drawing a lot of fans anyway. With so much revenue from league-wide rather than local sources, slashing payroll adds to the working bottom line much more than smaller attendance detracts from it.

They had to rebuild anyway, there’s not so many good places to spend on big league talent right now anyway, and their asset value trajectory is great regardless. So why not enjoy some low-budget profits?

Of course, if Fremont tanks all bets are off.

Those were the reasons and that was New York, we were running for the money and the flesh.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 17, 2008 10:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my suspicion is that Fremont has already tanked

By the time we know that Fremont has tanked, Crywolffisher will be announcing the new ownership group.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

note to others,

do not mention fremont to monkeyball unless you want him to go all ray ratto on us!

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh heh heh

I’ll believe that Fremont is happening when they break ground. Not a moment before.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My feeling exactly.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 10:20 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Monkeyball

You echo my same fear, Wolf knows the environmental impact report will not pass, which will then give him the excuse to throw in the towel. I am impressed by his continued presence at games and esp. when he showed up in the bleachers. However until its rolling I have grave doubts it will actually happen.

Enjoy the game

by DCinWC on Jul 18, 2008 1:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

less than a year from now...

Fremont will be cutting back on city services and begging the taxpayers to vote for tax hikes to pay its bills. I’ll tell you what else they’ll be doing. They’ll be expediting Wolff’s approval and railroading over EIR opponents to get things approved.

They’ll be so desperate to replace their flagging property tax revenues and sales tax revenues, they’ll bend over for the A’s and give them everything they ask for. Either that or cut the police and fire departement by 30%. They don’t want to do that.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good points, one and all

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If that's the equation

then they’ll both bend over for the A’s and cut PD and Fire by 30%. Because any salvation-by-tax-base-gain the A’s might deliver will arrive years after their onrushing budget crisis. And given that said bending over will include tax deferals and abatements, the arrival date of the magic pot o’ gold will be even later coming.

Those were the reasons and that was New York, we were running for the money and the flesh.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 17, 2008 11:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that'd be good by me...

smaller government, fewer cops… more revenue (eventually).

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 11:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just build more prisons!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 7:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Prisons

provide cheap labor, housing for the less fortunate, a place to put our debtors and provides our citizenry with motivation to maintain morality (via the Panopticon ideal, which I still think should be a ride at Six Flags—THE PANOPTICAN!)...what’s the downside?

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 8:06 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's the part where the

roller coaster stops going up and begins dropping really fast.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the ... PanoptiCAN?

Is that where we can all see each other pee?

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 18, 2008 9:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well,

to be fair, you never know if and when someone’s watching you pee, so you pee like everyone else.

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 1:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sounds like a slippery slope to me

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 18, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

That’s when you pee ON everyone else, not LIKE everyone else

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 1:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You get extra for that.

As my mentor, Al Swearengen says, “something ya gotta know about specialists – they pay a premium, and they never cause fuckin’ trouble. Sometimes I imagine in my declining years runnin’ a small joint in Manchester, England, catering to specialists exclusive. And to let ‘em know they’re amongst their own, maybe I’ll operate from the corner, hanging upside down like a fuckin’ bat, hmm?”

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 2:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More revenue?

That’s a Laffer.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 18, 2008 7:21 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Life is so much more fun in Imagination Land!

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 10:22 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see how property tax revenue is going down in Fremont

One, and I really don’t see how the ballpark will help the City with revenue a whole lot.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 17, 2008 11:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol...

you don’t see how property tax revenue is going down in Fremont? Really? With every property owner asking for a reassessment of their property value within the next year? And, no new homes (to speak of) being built in the last two years? Do you live in Fremont?

And, from the plans I’ve seen, the ballpark complex will increase not only property tax revenues significantly, but also sales tax revenues. What plan are you looking at?

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 11:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well there is a lot wrong with this post, but I will do my best to be patient

First, property taxes go to the county they are collected by. Then the state takes it’s chunk and doles out a small portion to the Cities in the State. It is a very complicated and convoluted process called the “triple flip” thanks to our retarded governor. Suffice that property tax revenue is not probably the 4th or 5th largest source for most Cities. I doubt you would be able to explain this unless you are a City Manager or work for a Union that negotiates with a City somewhere.

Your last point, about the complex and such does not make much sense because of the reality of what I describe above. Do you even know how a large commercial development like a new ballpark is assessed? Obviously the value of the thing will not be as good for property taxes until it is sold to someone else. Which brings up another point, this great complex you speak of, does include any residential development? Because that sure is catching like wildfire.

This mythical idea that Alameda County is going to grant reassessments for home values is something else altogether. Of course all the counties in the state are going to have figure what to do with all the banks that are whimpering about the property taxes they are having to pay on foreclosures. Alameda hasn’t backed down yet, and I think that is why we are seeing foreclosures moving at 1/3 value in the East Bay. Banks are eager to get whatever they can and move on.

So there is a whole bunch wrong with Fremont right now as there is with building throughout the state. Really highlights many of the problems endemic with our free market and speculative capitalism.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 18, 2008 10:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Property taxes aren't the goal

Sales taxes are. Everything the mayor and council has been doing the past 4-5 years has been to bring in sales tax revenue to make up their budget shortfalls. Fremont’s mayoral election is partly about the ballpark. A more overarching theme is this strategy of aiming for increased sales tax revenue. The mayor and council are in lockstep in favor of this approach. The former mayor hates it.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 11:22 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was responding to Fools comment

I agree that the sales tax revenue from a ballpark are marginally helpful for a City, but really not the best source. And sales tax is of course completely regressive and a dodgy way to plan and run a government.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 18, 2008 11:47 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not much else they can do

They already run lean with police, fire, and other city services. Aside from a Prop 13 repeal, what else can they do?

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More tax breaks for the extremely wealthy?

That stimulates the economy, right?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there is so much more WRONG with this post...

than my post that you responded to that I’m sorry I didn’t respond to it sooner.

No. 1. Property Tax Revenue will be going down for Fremont, as it will for every city in Alameda County;

No. 2. Regardless of what you think, Property Tax revenue comprises a substantial portion, along with sales and use taxes, of the discretionary income available to fund police and fire services for Fremont and other “full service” cities in California;

No. 3. The increase in Property Tax income would, indeed, come from the residential portion of the plan. In case you didn’t know, a city only gets an increase in property tax revenue when you have an increase in valuation in your TRA and the building and selling of 3,300 new units in Fremont’s TRA would result in such an increase. Doesn’t take a City Manager to tell you that.

No. 4. Alameda County will grant thousands of reassessments of property values this year. And, thousands more next year. Because, by law, it has to. But, regardless, of that fact, Fremont will not be able to budget for police and fire because governent always budgets on increasing revenue, as if there is never a recession. So, they always budget for more property tax revenue. Guess what, that ain’t happening for a few years.

No. 5. Now, that all being said, Vertig0 and you are both correct. The city is targeting the increase in sales tax revenue more than the increase in property tax revenue with this project. Vertig0 is more correct than you, of course, because you seem to think that the only increase in sales tax revenue will come from the ballpark. That’s hardly the case.

So, as patient as you’ve been for my response, I’ve hope you’ve been educated.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 20, 2008 12:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The San Jose A's of Fremont

Lew Wolff has been living in a fantasy world for a while. He does no promotion, closes the upper deck of the Coliseum, raises prices but doesn’t spend anything on amenities, tells Oakland fans they’re losing the team, and then is pissed off and flummoxed when people stop coming to the ballpark. He also appears to have a fantasy that moving to Fremont will suddenly get Peninsula fans to drop the Giants and support the A’s.

Fremont supporters continue to overlook or ignore the transportation issue. The only close access is an overcrowded freeway. Gas prices continue to rise. The lack of public transportation to the ballpark was a major downside at the start; now it sounds to me like a killer, not merely for the park but for the entire complex. On top of that, ticket prices will have to soar to pay off the debt. Without the hardcore fans who’ll have trouble making their way south, and with the potential for a very slow end to this recession, how will Wolff fill up the stadium?

If Lew Wolff is just a developer looking to make a killing, then he entered the wrong business and he’s now looking to either get out himself, or sell the team. However, if he’s serious about being the public face of the A’s ownership, then he needs to either (a) find a better location either in the Bay Area or elsewhere; or (b) solve the transportation problem (and the environmental issues, as well as Fremont’s reticence); or c) pray the recession ends quickly and gas prices drop precipitously; or (d) figure out a way to rebuild in the Coliseum lot.

I don’t see Fremont happening. Wolff has threatened to move the team out of the Bay Area. I suspect that when the stadium falls apart, that’s exactly what he’ll do. Whether he finds another place (and Vegas has its own issues) is another story.

by richwol1 on Jul 18, 2008 9:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

all good points as well

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 18, 2008 9:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're talking real estate here

Even if one were to subscribe to the idea that Wolff/Fisher were merely real estate magnates who have zero interest in the baseball team, giving up on a massive real estate deal like this so early in the process would run counter to how they operate. Real estate tends to have a long gestation period. Investors expect this. This isn’t commodities or stocks. There are too many dependencies.

Case in point: Cisco sat on the very same land for a decade after they bought it. The dot-com bust derailed their plans for a large campus there. They, like Wolff/Fisher, weren’t in financial dire straits and could afford to hold onto the land indefinitely. The market will rebound, it always does.

As for the transportation issue, I’m going to repeat something I’ve said before: 20% of the fanbase is not going to make or break the deal. We’d all like better transit solutions for the new ballpark but it’s not going to happen quickly if ever. They’re really just trying to get a stadium built.

One other thing. There are numerous critiques of the A’s PR effort related to the team, and they are well-founded. Much of this can be attributed to the team focusing a lot of their business efforts in the one place they think it can make a difference for their future: Fremont. I have 3 standing invitations in the next 2 weeks to various public/private events the A’s are going to attend in Fremont. That’s part of the playbook, like it or not.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 10:09 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

That doesn't change either of my main points.

Point One: Transportation. It may be true that 20% of the fanbase now takes BART. But when you move the location down to Fremont, you add mileage to the commute, plus lots of time spent in traffic. That means that a percentage of today’s drivers, maybe a large percentage, will be tomorrow’s BART riders if the distance/time/cost by car is too great.

Point Two: I understand the need to suck up to Fremont, but then don’t complain about people not showing up at the Coliseum.

by richwol1 on Jul 18, 2008 11:19 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll let you in on something

1. The A’s are focusing their future marketing efforts on the area within an 18-20 mile radius of the ballpark site. Care to guess how much of that is serviced by BART? One-third at best. By building in Fremont, they’re catering to even fewer BART riders. Since BART is so expensive to build, there’s a great chance it won’t happen down there. Fans will have to look elsewhere for alternative transportation. Even if we want to get out of our cars, there needs to be infrastructure there to assist us. Unfortunately that infrastructure is lacking everywhere in the Bay Area outside of SF.

2. I agree. Wolff should STFU about the fans. It’s not helping.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 11:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's insane

1. They’re basing everything on a movie catch-phrase, “If we build it, they will come”? They’re assuming that all those folks on the Peninsula and San Jose will suddenly switch allegiance to the A’s.? They’re as dumb as Bob Lurie, who assumed that the moment the A’s left the Bay Area, all the fans would suddenly support the Giants.

2.Right now a lot of people take cars because cars are easier than BART. When you build down in Fremont, those folks will find driving prohibitive and will look to take BART. Eliminate public transportation, eliminate many of those fans. If Wolff, doesn’t care about us, then he really should STFU.

Of course, there is method to his madness. If Fremont falls apart, he’s got the ready excuse to move the team: “Well, gee, the Bay Area just doesn’t want to support the A’s.”

Developers suck.

by richwol1 on Jul 18, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not all, just "enough"

1. They don’t need to capture all of the South Bay and Peninsula to be successful. The South Bay is not some monolithic Giants stronghold. I live there, I should know. They need enough to make up for the loss in the Northern East Bay.

2. Not disagreeing with you there.

Developers suck, but they also own a large number of major sports franchises. There is a method to their madness.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And what does Fremont have to do with

the piss poor effort the A’s make with regards to TV and radio?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 11:22 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How do you suggest they do improve this?

No one is/has been selling a high-power AM station in the Bay Area. They tend to absorbed as part of station packages or portfolios. Buying a TV station right now is a good way to lose money.

As for getting a better deal with an existing station – the A’s are not in a good position. Ratingswise the A’s suck compared to numerous other options, from right-wing talk to Spanish-language or Christian programming. All they can do at this point is get some stability with existing station(s) to establish some continuity, then build awareness from there. Won’t happen overnight.

I agree when it comes to the lower number of TV broadcasts this year. In that case the A’s are just being cheap.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 11:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But this isn't a problem

that just arose now. This has been a problem for some time. Why don’t they have a long term plan to start of a RSN?

As for their ratings, well, isn’t that a chicken and egg problem? The team is poorly marketed, difficult to follow over TV and radio. Thus ratings suck. The sucky ratings are then used as a reason why the team is difficult to follow over TV and radio. And on we go in circles.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They do

The plan is not to launch it (if they do at all) until the ballpark comes to fruition.

by vertig0 on Jul 18, 2008 12:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

with cisco heading it up........

there might not be a need for a RSN. by the time the park is built, we might all be watching IPTV or some incarnation…....

by greendatitiz on Jul 18, 2008 12:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

spot on, mate

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 18, 2008 10:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But but, tarping off the upper deck

made “economic” sense. Laws of supply and demand and all that. It’s what a progressive and forward thinking team, a Moneyball team, does.

In case it isn’t clear, I’m agreeing with you.

The A’s appear to do everything in their power to make it difficult for fans to watch and support them.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 11:21 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm all for keeping Duke and Barton

Since it’s obvious Beane isn’t “IN IT TO WIN IT” this year (but it would be nice) I definitely think we should hold on to a guy like Barton. Why not wait him out, honestly? He is extremely young and has tremendous potential, anyone who saw him in Sacramento would agree (not to mention the tear he went on when he got called up last season). And yes…he is in a slump, sort of a premature sophmore slump, but I believe he will pull himself out of it before the end of the season and remind us why he is here in Oakland.

And letting go of Duke would mean having no true solid veteran prescence in our starting 5. He is our most experienced starting pitcher now, even though he is by no means a true veteran, and provides an almost guaranteed chance at winning games every time he starts.

I just think letting go of those two would be a mistake. I would like to hold on to SOME of our players at least, and let the team grow.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 9:37 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree, agree, and agree more

You don’t win by just putting a bunch of talented rookies together – you win by putting them with a couple of carefully selected veteran mentors. And I can’t think of two better ones than Justin Duchscherer and Mark Ellis.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great point

I totally agree. The team should keep a few good veterans around to help the rookies. I would include Sweeney and Thomas but they are injured so often.

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 9:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why retain expensive veterans...

that have an up and coming younger, cheaper, alternative option in our system? You could as easily bring in veterans at needed position (a la Sweeny / Thomas) to supplant the team (note Big Hurt w/ Swisher in the past)....

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 9:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't consider any of the veterans that I mentioned to be expensive

I think the A’s are paying Thomas and Sweeney less than 500,000. Duke. could be kept for 2009 at a low salary. I suppose Ellis is making a salary in the millions.

I think hurt and sweeney are great examples of veterans to have around to help the young guys and neither is getting big money, nor will they in 2009

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 9:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ellis is around 5,000,000

His defense is worth at least that

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree. He is having a bad year at bat

However, he has had many other good years at the plate especially last year.

by Yellowhorse on Jul 17, 2008 10:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and away from the Coli

Remember, the A’s are on the road most of August. Aside from the wear on the rotation (count me among the folks worried about the potential spike in IP by Duke, Smith, and Evel Kneveland), with Ellis hitting on the road/2nd half, Frank (hopefully) coming back, and Murton/whomever playing in place of DFA, we could see a resurgence (OK, a surgence) from the offense.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

With Ellis continuing to hit better on the road and Frank coming back along with Swooney, I am also hoping that the extra run or two scored will offset the pitching should it falter.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd still like another bat or two ...

... but (a) I’m not sure where they’d come from, and (b) I’m not sure where they’d play.

So, yeah: cross fingers and hope that Ellis, Frank, Swooney et al. step it up a notch.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brignac

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 10:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

... can GIRB?

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 11:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not getting that one....

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 11:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

look at andeux's sigline

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 18, 2008 7:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i like that; happens to me pretty often around here

how about “ngto” as a new e-mailing acronym

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Jul 18, 2008 2:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I strongly suspect that the hitting and pitching stats will heavily correct toward average

based solely on the fact that the A’s are not playing many games in the Coliseum.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i was citing

Duke and Ellis…..if they keep performing as they are, they will be out of reach monetary wise. and if there performance falls off, then we also lose because we would lost the opportunity to cash in on a return when their perceived value is at an all time high…..

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ellis DEFINITELY needs to stay

His prescence here is not only wanted….but needed.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 10:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But for how many years?

Probably not the 4 he’d want in a new deal.

If he’d sign for two years we’d be crazy not to, but we do now have two pretty significant 2b prospects a couple years out. One of them’ll probably pan out.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a tough call there

You know Ellis wants a 4 year at least….and I think he would be willing to take a hometown discount to stay here. If the numbers work for Beane, he might be willing to sign Ellis for maybe a 3 year because there will be a team at any given point who will be desperate for a solid, defensive second baseman that they would be willing to trade prospects for. If he can keep Ellis for a relatively cheap, but respectable rate, he just might bite.
From all I’ve seen, it sure does seem like Mark wants to stay here in Oakland.

Scutaro is STILL my hero!

by Gold4Ellis on Jul 17, 2008 10:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After studying the scouting reports and thinking things over,

I’ve come to the conclusion that Cardenas is ticketed to replace Chavez, not Ellis, eventually. The timeframe makes more sense and so do the scouting reports.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So I assume they dont think he will stick at 2nd?

What makes him better suited for 3rd?

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently the biggest problem with his 2nd base D is lack of lateral range

which is less of an issue at third.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting theory

My analysis is more “the Phillies have very little talent, and AN wanted offense”

I don’t know that he’s ticketed to replace anyone in particular, but 2B to 3B is a pretty unusual transition

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought he lacked

the arm to man 3rd?

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From the other thread (and ultimately phuturephillies.com):

Strengths: Thick and strong, Cardenas has an easy, compact stroke from the left side that produces consistent line drives with good loft power. He squares up breaking balls and fastballs equally well, and he makes hard contact to all fields. He exhibits above-average arm strength at his new position.

Weaknesses: Cardenas moved off shortstop because his range was just adequate and figured to diminish as he filled out and grew older. He doesn’t cover a lot of ground at second base and his footwork needs improvement. A fringe-average runner, he lacks first-step quickness and his lateral movement also leaves something to be desired.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Above-average arm strength at 2nd...

equates to mediocore at 3rd? But since he played short before, that’s encouraging. Don’t get me wrong, if he can take Chavy’s place, I’m all for it, but the reports are a bit sketchy right now…

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2B is generally tougher,

so I don’t think there’s much reason to believe he’d be worse at 3rd, unless he has a terrible reaction time. 2B-3B is an odd move all else equal, since if a guy can play 2B that’s more valuable than having him at 3rd, but we need a 3B a lot more at this point, and it seems to fit his skills better than 2b.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 11:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The thing in that report I'm concerned about...

... is “lacks first-step quickness.” A quick first step is essential if one is to be a good third baseman.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 10:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The question is

Whether that means reflexes (which is critical to 3B) or base stealing/acceleration, which would be much less of an issue.

I read it as the latter, but you could well be right.

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 10:42 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point

I didn’t think of it in a baserunning sense. I hope your interpretation is the correct one.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 12:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could say that

a quick first step is essential if one is to be a good third baseman baseball player. Unless you hit 50 HRs.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 11:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It certainly helps

but it’s not as important to a player positioned a greater distance from where the ball is struck.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 12:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope so

That would make a lot of sense.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 10:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We all would love to win now

But I am excited about the future because Beane and Co are ensuring this team is going to be a winning one for many years. The Angels better win now because it is going to get tougher and tougher as we go forward in 2009 and beyond.

And as Nico just posted (as I was about to post but he beat me to it because I am too slow), we need to keep Duke around to inspire the others in the rotation and Ellis to do the same for the hitters and their fielding.

And no matter what we do this year, I just want to see the Angels lose as many games as possible by an means possible even if it means a sniper is stationed just outside the stadium as the players drive in.

It’s not too much to ask that Boston go 3-0 again on them this year should they meet is it?

You know like 15-0, 12-0 and 25-0

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 9:49 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have to post that again

Spellchecker was on and it ate my post while previewing it

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 9:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Try again

We would all love to win now but I am really looking forward to the future with all the pitching prospects we have especially. The Angels better win now because it is going to get much tougher for them from 2009 on.

I agree with Nico that we need to keep for 2 reasons, 1) that he has the best ERA and is almost automatic. I think it is too much to expect it to remain this low especially as the inning build up but if it remains 2.50 or below then we have to be happy. And 2) The other 4 pitchers are all rookies if Gio gets called up and what better way to keep learning than to watch the way Duke pitches.

We also need Ellis for his defense and I hope that He gets an extension and is not traded.

And whatever happens, lets hope the Angels lose anyway possible and that Boston erases them 3 and out as they have the last few times.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 9:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hear, hear!

You know whats hysterical…..listening to KNBR and their Giants fans assess this deal today:

- How can you root for the A’s when Beane is throwing in th towel and giving away all their good players and now have a bunch of no names to root for.

I wonder if knowing the names of Rich Aurelia, Barry Zito, RAy Durham, and the like is actually a good thing…..and if they didn’t realize, our no name guys are still 7 games above .500 and doing fine with an actual future…..

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 9:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rich Aurelia is not impressed

that the A’s are 7 games over .500. So there.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what a ...

gamerrrrrrrrrrrrrr…...................... :X

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

do yourself a favor and turn off the radio

knbr sucks. there is no reason to even give it a listen….......

by greendatitiz on Jul 18, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I gotta admit

I was surprised by this trade. Not that we would part with Blanton, but that another team would offer an attractive package for him given his performance.

Before today, I would have been surprised to see Street and Duke traded. Street because of his meltdowns and Duke because he’s performing like a top 5 pitcher, but others around the league will see him as 30+ soft tosser who doesn’t get strikeouts and has chronic back issues. After today I guess all bets are off.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jul 17, 2008 9:51 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes but.....

I also think you have to be mailable.

What if another team offers the A’s two blue chip prospects for Duke?

I mean, if Duke can net us a Doolittle/Carter type prospect, an Anderson type prospect, and a C+ level throw in I think you have to take it-no matter how much you want Duke to stay. This system may be deep, but it just doesn’t have enough high celine talent-especially in position players.

I think whether Duke stays as our Ace or no depends on the prospect packages Beane gets offered for him between now and the 31st.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Jul 17, 2008 9:54 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm mailable, if you can afford it

Interesting question: How much would it cost to mail yourself first class?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 17, 2008 9:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Myself

quite a bit.

I weigh 221lbs as of this afternoon after I worked out

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 9:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you can ask blanton ..

how much beane mailed him cross country for…..

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

which is also 25 lbs lighter than I was four months ago

I discovered when getting older that it is harder to keep the weight off. Of course that might have something to do with the garbage I eat.

Playing rugby used to keep the weight down but now I have to work out 7 days a week. Gotta get down to 210 or so.

So working out saved me money if I do decide to mail myself first class.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Man down 25lbs! Whats your secret?

Im 28 and trying to get back in shape and Its hard!

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

tell me about it

I weigh more than you do, and should be lower than your target goal.

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 10:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do

30 minutes cardio everyday on the treadmill or the bike.

I do 3 sets of 100 push ups with my feet on the kitchen sink twice a week and 3 days of weights with sets of 20 and a little less weight.

If I ate the proper foods, I would already be down to where I am.

I eat fast food a lot.

I do eat at Subway quite a bit because I only have to go 50 feet out of my complex but for example I might eat a foot long Philly Cheese steak and 3 bowls of broccoli cheese soup. And then I might still be hungry a little later on.

I found the weight comes off easier of you work out at 7 or 8 at night as opposed to when I normally do at like between the hours of 11-2 during the day. Something about working off the evening meal.

I do not eat breakfast at all, Usually a little snack but boy do I eat dinner.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They say your supposed to eat more meals

with smaller portions. It keeps your metabolism working all day. Rather than just 2-3 times for big meals.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I know

but I never seem to do that. I should.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ive been trying to.. Eatting better food more often.

Along with 2 miles or jogging a day. Just started 2 weeks ago so hard to judge it yet.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keep it up

I find you can go a couple of weeks and lose next to nothing and then lose 4 or 5 lbs.

I used to drink like a fish and would always be around 205. My roomy gave me some vicodins for my hangover one day and I started eating them like they were candy for about two years. I had to give that up when I started throwing up blood. I quit cold turkey and was sick for weeks laying on the bed. I should have gone to a doctor but I said, “Fuck it, I am not taking the easy way out, this way I will never do that shit again and I have not ever wanted to.

Anyway, I have more of an appetite now I am not doing that stuff so hence the weight and the need to work out.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah you dont wanna mess with

prescription drugs,

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I found that out the hard way

Pretty expensive on the pocket as well as healthy of course.

My roomy bought a bottle of Tussionex (maple syrup) Hydrocodone one time and the dosage was one teaspoon.

We used to fill an LA Kings overtime shot glass which held 13 of them and drink them down.

You would be high for a day and would wake up the next morning with your eyelids stuck together and could not go to the bathroom for two days. Greatest feeling ever was that high but not worth the price of good health.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Health is all ya got at the end of the day.

So it shouldnt be f’d with :)

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 11:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

However I do allow my self

1-2 meals a week where i eat what i want. I figure thats not all that bad. Usually on Sat when I go to camp and eat burgers and sausage with my friends.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've always hovered around a fit 165.

Never been above 170.

Not drinking beer makes a huge difference.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 17, 2008 11:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I stick to diet soda and vodka now

days when i wanna get my drink on.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 11:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just noticed

a lot of my friends who weighed about the same as me would pick up 30 or so additional pounds after they began drinking beer regularly (IE: daily) over an extended period of time.

Not a science, but the two might be related.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 18, 2008 12:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

alright, who's up for an AN weight-loss thread?

I told them 'My game is like a blog.' Because I don't know what a blog is, but it don't sound good. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 17, 2008 11:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would love to see it

although I have never actually lost a lb. So, each day yu read one of my posts I am the fatest I have ever been…

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Jul 17, 2008 11:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I had a friend who went from 210

back down to 180.

How? Signed up for an amateur baseball league. Good stuff.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 18, 2008 12:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That 25 pounds you lost

would cost you $93.75 to send by Express Mail. Only $41.95 by Priority mail, but either way, good job!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 17, 2008 10:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know that feeling

Stop playing rugby and BOOM! Of course it didn’t help that I stopped because of a different boom so there was some mandatory down-time.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My brother used to play Prop

and the scrum collapsed, and his knee exploded. He had to have a complete reconstruction and there were players who threw up when they saw the leg at a horrible angle. He was of course in extreme pain. The surgeon said it was the worst knee injury he had ever seen and naturally he never played again.

I am glad I was not there. That was many years ago.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 10:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ick.

I just got blindsided in a tackle and landed awkwardly enough to do something pretty exotic to my back.

I’d like to play again, but I don’t know if that makes me stupid.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well yeah

You’ll never see a room of pretty big guys get drunk as fast as after a rugby game. It’s medicinal AND everyone’s so dehydrated it only takes about two beers.

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My cousin played for Wellington

and played against Scotland. He was a lock and scored a try again them when he joined in on the left wing.

He got sent off several times for fighting. He was a policeman by day and played Rugby on the weekends. He quit the force because he said all his buddies were corrupt. He was playing Waikato one time and there was a flanker named Miah Melsom who was a dirty son of a bitch who used to get into fights and would do underhanded stuff when the ref wasn’t watching and Brendan’s job was to lay the guy out. He threw one punch and they carted the guy off on a stretcher. Trouble was Brendan did it right in front of the ref. He got the sinbin for 10. Now if you do that you are red carded and suspended.

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2008 11:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I find the irony here to be fantastic!

I mean did anyone else constantly opine about Blanton’s weight as much as this guy?

by Pucking Insane on Jul 18, 2008 3:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not irony,

it’s empathy.

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 3:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we're almost at the point that there are so many good prospects that we'll lose

some of them if we traded Duke and Street. Just not enough roster space. And I would rather keep Duke around than Street, and I think the value the two of them would return is probably pretty similar.

I have my doubts about re-signing Duke as a general matter, but they’ve cut so much payroll they might as well spend it somewhere, and Duke and Ellis are as good bets as any in the FA field the next two offseasons.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 11:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's one hellavu problem too have...

think about this time last year if you cited this….... :)

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 11:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting

I’m looking at a 2009 Free Agent List, no idea how good it is but I’ll rely on it for this purpose.

First Base
No one exciting except Teixeira, and I’d be shocked to see us go that route.

Second Base
Ellis is probably the best on the list. I still don’t understand why Giles’ career went so wrong.

Third Base
Hopefully next year is the year of the healthy Chavez, otherwise if Blalock got bought out I’d be interested

Outfield
Dunn is the big name, and he’d be pretty sexy out there as a rich-man’s Cust. He’s also probably the biggest name free agent, so that might bid him up too high.
Baldelli would be interesting if his health issues resolve. He’s had all kinds of problems this year (including what they thought would be a career-ending condition).
Burrell would fit right in, but he’d be less sexy than Dunn.

If we spent our money on one of Dunn/Burrell I’d be pretty happy, but otherwise I’d agree that there isn’t a FA who is going to be a better help than Duke/Ellis

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 6:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Second Base:

Orlando Hudson is the acknowledged best free agent (even though he isn’t actually better than Ellis.)

As for Giles, the reason why his career “went so wrong” starts with “s” and ends with “teroids”.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 18, 2008 7:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's definitely something that

starts with “s” and ends with “ad”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 8:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Scrotums of the dead?

I’d still rather have Street on my team than K-Rod, just because I hate douchebags. -Taj Adib

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 18, 2008 8:59 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks but I JUST had breakfast

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 18, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

salad?

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jul 18, 2008 9:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Baldelli

Rocco is already an Oakland Athletic. It’s just a formality from here. The spot on the DL is already reserved for him.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 18, 2008 12:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am just wondering why people think the Fremont plan has tanked? As far as I can tell, everything points to it being on schedule for the most part.

The Fremont Plan is currently ungergoing the EIR, started in December, and should take about a year+ to complete as per standard California operating procedures. There’s been no info on if the EIR has shown that the Ballpark Villiage is actually a haunted ancient indian barrial ground thats going to be underwater in 2009 because of Global Warming, yet.

If anyone has any information that the EIR process has actually flopped, then produce it.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 17, 2008 10:20 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't think there are reports of any startling problems..

it’s just monkey ball citing his usual fremont monkey business… ;)

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 10:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this view is totally unsupported...

other than the fact that Fremont politicians are notoriously stupid when it comes to dealing with developers. The reason NewPark Mall is in Newark rather than Fremont is because Fremont politicos are idiots.

I’ll give monkeyball this much… if Gus Morrison wins his bid to, once again, become mayor of Fremont, Cisco Field is probably dead. It would be tantamount to Oakland retaining the A’s once somebody like say… Jerry Brown or Ron Dellums was elected mayor.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 11:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow, did you just lump Ron Dellums and Jerry Brown?

That’s like lumping Albert Pujols and Rod Carew

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 17, 2008 11:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brown and Dellums are two socialist peas in a pod...

Pujols and Carew, both good ballplayers. Both pairs are much more similar to each other than they are to me.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 17, 2008 11:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well Ron Dellums was like a 17 term Congressman

and I believe the head of the armed services comittee – quite an accomplishment for a black man from Oakland.

Jerry Brown was born into politics and privilege and was awfully well connected with developers to be much of a commie.

Neither one was a good baseball fan, but beyond that I can’t see much similarity.

Carew and Pujols are both first basemen, btw.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 18, 2008 12:15 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it doesn't matter how you're born...

you are quite correct… Dellums and Brown came from very diverse backgrounds, yet nevertheless both ended up socialists. Pujols and Carew probably grew up in similarly different circumstances (no oxymoron intended), yet both ended up playing 1st base. Coincidence? I think not.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 18, 2008 12:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WHAT!?!?

I thought how you were born was all that mattered… I thought that was what the American Dream was all about- maintaining and avoiding change of your social status.
Well this changes everything…

by GeorgiaBoy on Jul 18, 2008 12:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean...

People can improve their socioeconomic status through hard work and dedication?!

Say it isn’t so.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 18, 2008 12:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AN is an educational vehicle...

Blez has certainly exceed his most wild expectations…. shattering a boy from Georgia’s social illusions. He would have never dreamed such dreams.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 18, 2008 12:37 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was the ya'll that gave ya'll away...

but, to be honest, I made the assumption that you were from the state of Georgia, and not from the former Soviet Republic of….

For some reason, I feel more safe in that assumption than I do in my assumption that the fuckin’ Angels will regress to their run differential this year.

But, I could be wrong on both.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 18, 2008 12:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 18, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hellooooo, CGV

Personally, I don’t think politics should really be a CGV, but I would make an exception for red-baiting a la the above.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 18, 2008 7:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Labeling someone as a socialist when they in fact are not has been done to death. I can’t imagine why anyone would voluntarily associate themselves with one Sen. McCarthy, but if FoolishGame wants to perhaps another blog is a better fit.

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 7:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's the stupid, economy

Those were the reasons and that was New York, we were running for the money and the flesh.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 17, 2008 11:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think there is a chance it is bombing because of the lack of PR

But the A’s are not the best at that stuff.

I just think we would be getting regular news bits if things were going ahead as planned.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jul 17, 2008 11:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No update yet....

I wonder if/when Joe will next update his blog....

Come to think of it, I wonder if he ever went to NYC, or if he was told to pack his stuff in Oakland and wait by the phone…..

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 17, 2008 10:21 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NYC is closer to Philly than Oakland...

cept in terms of history … (wearing Philly A’s hat)

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 17, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unless he went home to West Virginia

In which case, he may have been much closer to Philly from there….

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 17, 2008 10:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kentucky

Not WVa.

You’re thinking of Swisher.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 17, 2008 10:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Man Donaldson is on fire!

3-3 with a HR so far.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:23 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Worthless garbage throw-in

No-future idiot.

How could we ever have acquired such a useless faux-prospect?

by nevermoor on Jul 17, 2008 10:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ellis

Sorta like Mark Ellis?

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Jul 17, 2008 10:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He just added a walk.

Now Beane go sleep easy.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question:

Can any middle infield prospect stick to their position?

From the team’s growing sample size, it seems like every single middle infield prospect in the game can’t hold their mustard where they need to.

Is position switching the new undervalued commodity?

by RenoTy on Jul 17, 2008 10:34 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Beauty of Beane

I saw this quote after the Harden deal, Beane was asked “are you buying or selling?” his response was “neither, i’m looking for opportunity.” Beane is on a differant level than all other GM’s. While few want to move Ellis if the right deal comes along, why not? And Street? This is a year where from the beginning its been a reloading process. Next year, with tons of chips they could be buyers at the deadline and make a run. At least we know the next few years will be competitive.

The Blanton deal works for me because they acquired the #2 and #3 prospects in the Phillies organization.

Where would you rank Blanton right now, on the team? Does he even break the top ten?

It reminds me of the Swisher deal, trading a known commodity for someone else’s future. Looking at that deal right now, Sweeney’s production this year compared to Swisher’s is almost a push. Swisher is superior, in HR and BB but Sweeney isn’t a huge let down, and he has some upside. If Gio or De Los Santos can come up and give them something it is an overwhelming win for the A’s.

by Cochran86 on Jul 17, 2008 10:47 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point

I think it’s not an issue of Beane is the smartest dude ever!! But he’s got more job security than 90% of the GM’s across the MLB. He can trade away every big name guy and keep his job to see the returns on his talent re-positioning.

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Jul 18, 2008 12:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cardenas:

Perusing the stats:
His .812 OPS this year seems excellent, but not mind-blowing, however:
1)The FSL is the toughest of the three A+ leagues for hitters.
2)He ranks second in all of A+ (even in a tough hitters league) in hitting (wOBA) among players in their age 20 season.
3)His peripherals are also superb, in contrast to our other top hitting prospects.

So, I would say that he is easily our top position-player prospect.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jul 17, 2008 11:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a slight observation...

This year, the rumors floating around on deadling deals seem to have come to fruition rather quickly…..Harden to cubs and Blanton to Phillies. I wonder if the Street to Rays deal is imminent….

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

by ST on Jul 17, 2008 11:18 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could be

That’d be the first one that really hurts this year’s team though. I think that may be Beane’s hesitation.

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 7:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which might explain why he's waiting

If Devine or Casilla starts looking like they did at the beginning of the season, it’s less of a problem. Right now, there’d be a big huge hole in the ‘pen (Ziggles is great, but not best used as a closer)

by nevermoor on Jul 18, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bye, Joe.

In the previous thread, somebody (Nico, I think) mentioned that the A’s lost just about every Blanton start this year.

In 7 of his 20 starts the A’s scored 1 run or less. Not surprisingly, Blanton took the loss on all 7, because this is a pitcher who has thrown just 2 shutouts in 118 games started. In 4 of those games, he averaged 6.2 innings with 2 ERs, good enough to win.

This is not to say that he’d have a record of 9-8 instead of 5-12. Just that we’re talking about a pitcher who turns in 9 quality starts out of 20, for a team that can’t score runs consistently. This is a pitcher who has thrown 213 more innings and got 11 more wins for the A’s in 3.5 years than Rich Harden has in 5. He also has more complete games and shutouts.

He’s no ace, but he worked hard for the A’s. I wish we would take a moment to appreciate that instead of dwelling on the worst year of his career.

by GlassHeart on Jul 17, 2008 11:24 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

okay, but

how does 9 quality starts out of 20 compare to the average major league starting pitcher?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 17, 2008 11:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So-so

Duchscherer – 12/16
Eveland – 9/19
Smith – 9/18

Smith and Eveland “lost” many of their quality starts because they didn’t make 6 innings.

But we’re still talking about a pitcher who probably contributed more to the Oakland cause than Harden.

by GlassHeart on Jul 18, 2008 5:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sad to see Blanton go at a low point

I hope he does well in Philly. He was overweight, but underappreciated.

Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Jul 18, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

are we gonna pick up bonds for the rest of the season?

we could probably get him cheap and he would no doubt be a big bat in the lineup

Billy Beane For Commissioner!

by CrackBaby on Jul 17, 2008 11:35 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it doesn't make much sense at this point

especially with thomas and sweeney coming back soon and cust already here.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 18, 2008 12:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From Keith Law

“Adrian Cardenas is the best of the three prospects going back to Oakland; in a perfect world, he becomes a solid-to-average offensive second baseman with an average glove. He has a short enough swing to make plenty of contact, but he’s not physical and won’t hit for much power. He’s not fast out of the box, but shows above-average speed going first-to-third. He’s also a perfect 16-for-16 in steals this year.”

Man its like pulling teeth for him to say anything good about players we have gotten over the past few years.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 11:55 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so in a perfect world he’s just average on both offense and defense?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 18, 2008 12:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to keith law...

but hes been known to be a Beane Hater.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 18, 2008 12:08 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe that’s keith law’s “perfect world” and not beane’s.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 18, 2008 12:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well I asked him in a chat

who’s the best GM in the game, he replied that Beane is the best at getting the most bang for the buck. Can’t be that anti-beane

Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC

by closetasfan on Jul 18, 2008 6:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a little sad

I liked Kentucky Joe. He seemed like a nice guy. Seems like we got a good amount for him, though. Cardenas looks really good. I’m psyched for the Gio callup hopefully soon. And I really hope we keep Duke and Ellis.

by A'sfansince1970 on Jul 18, 2008 12:04 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

blanton's spot in the rotation

i’d like to see
1) braden
2) gio
3) meyer

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 18, 2008 12:06 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd like to see Cahill...

but, that’s not likely to happen.

Grow some balls, Billy, and put your best pitcher in the fuckin’ rotation.

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 18, 2008 12:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's just stupid

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I knew we'd agree

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 AM PDT