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Rating Bob Geren

Given the time that has passed and grades and analysis are being done to evaluate the team, the question that I have to all AN members is what grade does Bob Geren get for his job as the skipper of the Athletics????

Given all the injuries the team has faced and the lineups he has had to work with really seem unfair to take into consideration. Given we all agree he is better than Ken Macha, what about Ron Washington though? Do you think Oakland would have been better served with Wash?

I think I would give a grade of C+ or a grade of B-/// Maybe I see things different than other AN members, but in a way I'm not really impressed with Geren, but also not calling for his firing like we did with Macha.

I welcome any thoughts and insight on Geren's performance~

0 recs  |  Comment 39 comments

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Considering the A's are 7 games over .500....

I give him a solid B. He’s made some glaring mistakes (Bowen PH yesterday) along the way, but nothing too horrific. The way I look at it is that a manager will never win a game for his team, but he can definitely lose a game for his team – and he hasn’t lost many for the A’s. For the most part he goes by the book, rarely ever goes with the hot-hand and is loyal to his players (see Embree).

The injury situation has killed him. Luckily the SP has been healthy, but the offense and the bullpen (recently) have not been good to him. He’s done a good job w/ a team the was never expected to contend. 4 1/2 out in the WC at the ASB is impressive.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Jul 14, 2008 8:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

the only thing keeping Wash alive in Texas is their offense....

I remember earlier in the season when Blez posted a story reporting that he was within days/hours of being canned.

BTW…put Texas’ lineup w/ the A’s pitching a you would most definitely have the best team in baseball….we can only dream

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Jul 14, 2008 8:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

my friend and I...

were just saying that yesterday at the game. we want to combine the Rangers and A’s to create a Super Team to take down the Angels and the rest of the MLB. our pitching and their offense = I can’t imagine that team would be capable of losing too many games.

"Ryan [Sweeney] has got the perfect baseball body..." -Mike Sweeney

by Christine on Jul 14, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Douglas Adams has the best grade for him.

Mostly harmless.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 14, 2008 8:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If he doesn't get an A-, who does, when?

He overuses Embree and Foulke? Well, he was down Casilla and Devine. He lets Bowen hit? Well, his alternative was Murphy against a RHP who eats righties for dinner. Etc, etc. With all the injuries, Geren has piloted a team that has stayed in contention (somehow) and stayed upbeat. Well done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 14, 2008 8:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

C+

Geren’s inability to make adjustments mid-inning in regards to the relief staff frustrates me to no end. Casilla gets guys on first and second with one out, Ziggler (a double play specialist) is warm in the pen. Casilla strikes out the first, then gives up the big hit and THEN gets replaced by Ziggler who induces a routine (double play) grounder to second for the last out of the inning. This isn’t an isolated situation, Geren has done this repeatedly with Embree, Foulke, Casilla and Brown. Some nights a guy doesn’t have it and Geren leaves him in, costing the A’s precious runs that this team obviously doesn’t have the offense to recover from.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 14, 2008 8:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Again, take away three of a guy's best five relievers

and it will happen a lot more than if you don’t.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 14, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

However when a ton of people here say "Wow, he should use this guy instead"

And then the explosion happens, there’s something to it. Especially when that happens once a week. Plus, those injuries allowed Ziegler to get called up, and Geren still hasn’t figured out that he’s, like, pretty good at pitching.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 14, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh. C+/B-

But I’m of the opinion that the manager has much more of a chance of having a negative affect on a team.

Maybe it’s harping, but if the manager makes the right move and the team succeeds, HE DID HIS JOB. If he makes the right move and the team fails, the players didn’t do their job.

If he makes the wrong move (Embree vs 4 straight power hitting righties) and the team fails, it’s on him.

Geren’s job is to put the players in the best position to succeed. I’d say he’s probably doing “the right thing” about 80% of the time.

by mikev on Jul 14, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's doing the "right thing" 80% of the time

But I consider that to be pretty close to failing for, supposedly, one of the 30 best at his job in the country. That’s actually quite terrible.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 14, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but it's pretty much limited to bullpen use.

There’s the occasional pinch hitting gaff (Bowen…), but it’s usually just bullheadedness and thinking OMGZ EMBREE IS TEH 8TH INNING PITCHARrr1!!!!

by mikev on Jul 14, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solid B to B+ for me

He’s got the team performing better than I expected them to and he’s doing it with half a AAA roster most of the time thanks to all the injuries. Like any manager, he makes some decisions that are questionable, but the end result is the A’s are playing above expectations and he’s kept them stable.

I can’t see anything less than a B being reasonable with the roster problems he’s had to deal with.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 14, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Flashfire.

The A’s came into the season with a team that many people ruled out of being anywhere near playoff contention. We are six games behind the Angels but still we are doing much better than I expected. We are 7 games above .500 and with that alone you have to give Geren some credit.

by Coffee13eans on Jul 14, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not impressed

isn’t Oakland like the worst performer based on pythagorean records? I think he’s a bit too conservative and not flexible enough. Just seems to me that he doesn’t do enough when it comes to winning close games, although maybe that’s not fair with the injuries and the fact that yesterday happened well…..just yesterday

Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC

by closetasfan on Jul 14, 2008 9:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Braves are the worst

Indians are also worse than the A’s, as are the Mariners. BJ’s are at around the A’s level.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 14, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We could go around and around on pythag records again, but I won't.

All I’ll say is a few blowout wins skew the predictions when the majority of your games are low-scoring on both sides and you don’t give up a lot of blowout losses to even out the wins.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 14, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And just in case anyone asks, here are the blowouts for the A's this year.

I consider a blowout winning by 6 or more runs, but YMMV.

Wins: 13-2, 7-1, 11-2, 14-2, 15-8, 12-6, 9-1, 8-3, 10-2, 15-1, 7-1, 7-1, 9-2

Losses: 7-1, 8-1, 0-12, 1-11, 1-11

13 blowout wins, 5 blowout losses. Run differentials of 137-32 (+105) to 4-49 (-45). Total of 141-81 (+60). What’s their run differential for the season? +65. They’re also 7 games over .500.

Take away the 13-5 record in blowouts and all those runs and what are you left with?

A 38-39 team with a run differential of 269-264. Says a lot, doesn’t it?

A note on that 12-6 game – it came against the Rangers in early May, sandwiched around 9 losses by no more than 4 runs and a win by a run. 6 of the losses were by 1 or 2 runs. In those 11 games they went 2-9 and were outscored just 48-35. Then the A’s won 6 in a row and won the first two of that streak 9-1 and 8-3, immediately wiping out the negative run differential from the previous 11 games. If that doesn’t sum up the run differential explanation, I don’t know what will.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 14, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does sum it up, but I think there are different conclusions to be drawn

I think all these 1 run losses is a pretty good sign that they’ve either been unlucky or the manager is failing to do his job. A lot of those close losses are because of stupid decisions late in games (there’s been 4 in the past 2 weeks where he clearly made an absolutely idiotic move).

I just wish Geren would stop costing the team games. I think a manager typically can only help a team by keeping people happy and motivated (which they should be anyway because they’re pros). When it comes to in-game decisions, most of the stuff is common sense. Geren, it seems, hasn’t grasped some of that and it makes no sense because the guy has been in baseball forever. I hate coming off as the armchair manager, but I don’t see this out of other managers in baseball. Not the good ones, anyway. Geren isn’t the worst (Dusty), but he’s bottom five in all of baseball.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 14, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on Jul 14, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my feelings exactly

i knew if i read a bit i could save myself from being repetitive

by cvdoug on Jul 14, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A 38-39 team with a run differential of 269-264. Says a lot, doesn’t it?

Actually. no. It doesn’t really say anything. Run differential is a better predictor of future success than “run differential in non-blowouts.” Period. This is a historic fact. It’s really not open to argument. You’re subtracting information, not adding it, by screening out blowouts.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 14, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Be that as it may, the statistics bear out that they are completely average when it comes to...

...winning the close ones. This is hardly unexpected given their good pitching and bad offense. I submit the Angels are better than average as the main reason they have the record they do. Hopefully the A’s will have a similar blowout ratio by the end of the season, though.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 14, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give him a D, and that's being generous

Yeah, the record would be better without the injuries. But the record would also be better without a manager who frequently made stupid decisions regarding bullpen usage. It’d be better without a manager who pinch hits cold, mediocre players for equally mediocre players. It’d be better without a manager who wasn’t just as bad as Macha.

AND STOP EFFING JUGGLING THE LINEUP SO MOTHEREFFING MUCH! It’s like he feels “oh my god, I have to do something!” so he flip flops guys in the order so nobody says “Hey, why is this guy even here?”

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 14, 2008 10:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1 on bullpen usage

I think if you look at Geren’s history last year and this year, he seems to heavily influenced by Caribbean leagues, one pitcher per batter matchup diarrhea. I feel like he frequently pulls relievers that are getting the job done to move to the next one in line, which over time wears down the bullpen and leads to overuse.
Look at the start of the season, Casilla was lights out, Brown was great, Foulke and Embree were also solid while Street struggled a little. Blink and you missed it, but all of a sudden Casilla and Foulke were hurt (I’m not counting Brown, because I think that was an appendix thing.)
Hell, yesterday Zeigler closed out an inning with one pitch and he was warmed up and he’s been in a tremendous groove, tell Huston to play catch and let Ziggy pitch the ninth.

I also think the blowouts either way need to be used to rest Suzuki, Crosby and Ellis. if the bench players like Bowen were getting more at bats, they might hit better when they come on to pinch hit..

by connie mack on Jul 14, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other than mis-use of the bullpen.......

What I dislike about Geren is he has no “out of the box” thinking. With CarGon on third and only 1 out, why not try a suicide squeeze? Or more hit and runs when the situation calls for it. Sometimes a manager has to help an offense generate runs as well, get them kick-started. I know I’m gonna get some flack for saying this, but I like how Scioscia handles a game. He takes risks. Sometimes risks are necessary in order to win and stay competitive. I say let Geren go, put up De Francesca in the manager spot and jolt some life in this club, especially when we get our guys back from the D.L.

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on Jul 14, 2008 12:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate to say it but Yes, Scioscia wins tons of ballgames. He wins the close ones more offen than not

they win the games they are up by one or two, they win the games they are down by one or two. A suicide would have been sweet. Even if it didn’t work. How many people had confidence we would be able to manufacure a run in the ninth last night? We should be bunting and being agrresive ALL the time so that when we need to get a run, when its crusial to get a run, WE KNOW HOW TO GET A RUN. The A’s know how to pitch. Time to start playing more small ball so we can learn how to win the close ones.

by TheLC on Jul 14, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my coach in college used to say

“i have never won a single game in the history of chabot college; the players won all of those. however, i HAVE lost plenty of them.”

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jul 14, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is silly, and I hate manager discussions because they inevitably degenerate into this kind of crap

but even stipulating that you’re right, and the A’s need more bunting practice, shouldn’t they be practicing for the (very very very small number of) times when it actually makes sense to play small ball in, you know, practice? Instead of throwing away outs in situations where bunting is idiotic, like, eh, just about anytime before the 9th inning?

You don’t see NFL teams running a flea-flicker every godd**n quarter so that they “know how to execute it” when they really need it…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 14, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give him a B

I like Scioscia as well. Sometimes he fiddles too much but for the most part he always aggressive, and puts his players in a position to win. However he has the team and the philosophy for it. We all know how Beane feels about the bunt, sac bunt etc. Gerens A’s have bunted more times than than Machas or Howes, it just never happened. I would really have LOVED a squeeze to have been put on yesterday but the A’s just don’t work on that stuff. or if they do they sure don’t execute it very well (Barton.) Putting Bowen in yesterday was lame, but Murphy was no better. I was hoping for Bowen to strike out as opposed to the double play. Just get to Suzuki, like he is some sort of slugger. This team has no real hitting and Geren has done pretty well with what is out there.

Enjoy the game

by DCinWC on Jul 14, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

B-

It’s seems that Geren is much like our rookie players, who are just learning how to hit the ball.. Geren seems to be in a learning stage as well. I like the fact that he is willing to play small ball more than Macha and I like the fact that he at least get’s off the bench when he needs to defend his players (Unlike Howe), but I think he’s slow to pull his pitchers sometimes when the game is on the line. That’s fine if you are just a training team looking to the future and maybe that’s what he sees, but if you have any serious thoughts about being a playoff team, I think you pay a little more attention to each game and what it means.

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on Jul 14, 2008 1:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

When do you see him play small ball?

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on Jul 14, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

still not enough

especially against the good pitchers. I think rule of thumb, if the opposing pitcher has an ERA under 3.5 they should play small ball from the first inning. This has been what kills the A’s over the years, in the aggregate they look okay, because their style put up lots of big innings against lousy pitchers, teams, but they folded against the good pitchers.

by connie mack on Jul 14, 2008 11:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

overall B-

could use the bench and bullpen better, but you gotta give the guy credit for instilling confidence in his club.

by connie mack on Jul 14, 2008 11:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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