Barely Younger. Hellthier. Ethier. Shallower.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 1:44 AM PDT

Not to go all vegasgm on you guys (or whoever has irked the community the most with criticism of the trade), but c'mon. Who doesn't ask for more talent than this for...talent such as this? Let's not all be Beane apologists here. Sure, there are minor salary gains here; perhaps Sean Gallagher is better than Chad Gaudin, let alone Harden, perhaps other dominoes will fall and another trade will be made in short order...but in a vacuum, this is nothing better than a bad trade. With the inclusion of Gaudin, Beane caved into the needs of a contender that isn't really all that good. Post-Sabathia, the Cubs are at best second-best in their division--only so because of STL pitching injuries (to their top three starters, basically). There was no need to make this deal at this time. No rush. The irony here is that the Cubs' panic benefitted them. It netted them one of the five best pitchers in baseball. Harden, Santana, Webb, Halladay, Sheets. So I would say. That may in fact be in proper order. You do not part with someone like that for subpar talent such as this. You demand elite talent. This is better than 2007 Josh Hamilton, and the Reds issued an ultimatum for Volquez in that deal, and had their request honored.

There is no proper rationalization here. As a longtime AN poster/reader, I respect iglew/mdl and Taj Adib, but I cannot agree with their justifications of such a mediocre (at best) return here. Given the current wild card/divisional contention, as a fan, this is downright unacceptable. There is really no upside here or later. Where does Gallagher fit in 2009? As a #3, at best? If Gio and Simmons were to get hurt, or something? And unless some team REALLY overvalues Patterson (Dusty, where are you), that acquisition is so useless. Murton is basically a recalamtion project at this point--potentially good, but hardly (and here I use "hardly" loosely, and perhaps for pun value...) a centerpiece of a trade for a bona fide ace...and he other guy, well, let's invest in yet another young catcher, because we haven't already done that all too many times before, right? Hopefully he's 40 pounds overweight, too.

Fucking horrible trade. A's win in spite of this bullshit. Go Oakland. Trade Street and Blanton for nothing, and win more. Front office idio[syncra]cy.

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recalamtion

As Turkish soccer fans would indeed chant, this transaction is some variation of a…Calamity. Hence the word…therefore not a misprint. Misprint is old-school. You’re reading an early 90’s newpaper right now, in case you weren’t aware.

Anyway, notwithstanding intense competition from the preview button, I reclaim that word to which I refer in my subject line here. I have at least some…recollection…of an intention for it to be…reclamation…ah, careful this time. I have an analogy to make re: my caution at the keyboard here, but I’d hazard a guess that it’s best left unsaid.

All in all you’re just another brick in the wall, Rich—so says my Discman. Yeah, that’s right. No iPod here. Fuck you, Steve Jobs. Long live Sony CD players! My lifeblood. Did I hear Mozart in the womb on a fucking MP3 player? Course not. Actually, I didn’t hear Mozart in the womb via any medium, but I can still blame limewire and Apple for that. My mother wasn’t going to hoist me to the fucking turntable. Hard for pregnant women to be so agile. Barry Sanders she was not. Mother will always find out where you been, however (onto that track, readers).

"Behind both goals were banners bearing the word 'Calamity' while another carried the warning: 'You will drown in the Bosphorous.'"--Threats made by Turkish soccer fans to the British from a match in 2003. Tribute to their miraculous run in Euro 2008.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 2:20 AM PDT reply actions

I tried to recommend myself.

But I couldn’t…that needs to be fixed. Narcissus has spoken.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Big Night Last Night?

by Colorado Fan on Jul 11, 2008 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Hah, now, how'd you know...

I had to celebrate the A’s improbable extra innings comeback W in style…I was out from 7:30 PM EST to 3 AM, so there was plenty of time to get primed for writing this post. Best part of the night was talking with…let me find the business card here…Chief Dean (I remembered the first name on my own, at least) Sayers (should’ve remembered that, too, on account of his sharing a last name with one of the greatest running backs in football history), leader of the Batchewana First Nation of Ojibways (NEVER would have remembered the name of his tribe offhand), of Sault Ste. Marie, ON. He was in Buffalo taking a break in between meetings with other tribal leaders, the Canadian government, and that pesky diamond company/exploiter of indigenous peoples, DeBeers; the meetings were being held in Toronto and Montreal. I was actually kind of pissed off at what % of the revenue in this arrangement he was willing to settle for in negotiation…he was setting the bar at 35%, but willing to bend that figure. I was busting out War of 1812 and African blood diamond trade (see, the Harden trade wasn’t the only trade on my mind last night) references and whatnot to try to argue that his tribe should concede…nothing to an empire almost as evil as Steinbrenner’s.

All that over me asking the guy a question that I was wrestling with the whole night…off a Molson Canadian beer label…truly a conversation-starter. The question is: Would you rather be famous and hated, or normal and respected? Maybe I should make a poll for AN. I’m estimating 10 votes in favor of the former, 5 in favor of the latter, and 1 decidedly undecided (me). Chief Dean here had the best answer: “famous and hated…because I already am.”

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions

Normal and Respected

Did Chief Dean introduce you to any other forms of partying? I sure hope so.

by Colorado Fan on Jul 11, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Hellthier. Ethier. Ether. Et. E.

Harden inhabits the heavens when healthy. And thus error by the A’s. E 11. (I’d assign 10 to the manager, 11 to the GM). Thus thus the sequence.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 2:38 AM PDT reply actions

I'm positive Beane

asked for a fair amount initially to find out what he might be able to get in return for Harden. But, in the end this was clearly the best he could do. Harden is arguably the best pitcher in the game when he’s healthy; his physical tools are amazing. That’s not a secret. However, he hadn’t put together a consecutive string of this many starts in roughly two years, maybe more. Look, I love the guy – however, this was a rare chance for Beane to get some kind of moderate value in return, and he did.

You can’t judge the incoming players solely on ML statistics, when you consider sample size and how they were utilized in Chicago. For some reason I can’t hyperlink it, but Travis Nelson at bleacherreport.com has some nice insight on what we received in return.

I’ll miss Rich as much as anyone else, and understand the A’s didn’t receive a big return for a marquee talent. I agree that we probably should have gotten more, but it’s a hell of a lot better than sitting around in frustration waiting for his return when he’s hurt. If by some miracle he remains healthy for an extended period of time, the Cubs win this trade. I have no doubts about that. That’s a huge if, though, and I urge you to have patience in the matter. The phrase you just used, ‘when healthy’ – is the biggest tease because he never is.

by calhockey2 on Jul 11, 2008 2:54 AM PDT reply actions

Also

Your assertion that the Cubs aren’t really that good is way off base. They have the best run differential by far in the NL, at +105 – they’ve scored the most runs allowed in the league and have allowed the 4th fewest. They are first in team BA, runs scored, OBP, OPS, and SLG. The Cubs are 5th in ERA, 2nd in BAA, and 4th in WHIP. I’d say they’re very good. You sound more bitter than rational to me.

by calhockey2 on Jul 11, 2008 3:26 AM PDT reply actions

Well, your posts are certainly more rational than mine

But I wasn’t necessarily worried about the trade that I got to make—some rationality for personal opinion/infusing my personality. You definitely make good points in these posts…we’re not really in disagreement about the trade…as for the Cubs, yes, given what they’ve done to this point, they’ve played better than anyone else in the NL. This may or may not be related to the fact that they seemed to have played all 19 of their games against Pittsburgh by the end of the May. But if you outlined the rosters of the Cubs and, hell, the Cincinnati Reds, well, I just might choose the latter. We’ll see how the second half plays out.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Too many apologies

As another life long A’s fan, I agree that this appears to be a horrible trade. Unless there is some magical very well hidden quality about Gallagher that we can’t see-and no one in baseball can see- then Beane has flippd his lid on this deal. I know we are supposed to trust in Beane- but weren’t we supposed to trust in Beane when he gave Hudson away for what proved to be NOTHING. I know you can’ t get them all right and sometime what appears to be good turns out to be dog crap. I’ll give Beane the credit for being a good GM, maybe even a great GM, but this trade appears to be wrong. Prove me wrong Billy.

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on Jul 11, 2008 4:58 AM PDT reply actions

Horrible Trade?

To call this a “Horrible Trade” is incorrect. Am I the only one who was seriously concerned with Harden’s last 2 starts? Why was Harden pushed back to this Saturday (w/ Rumors that he’ll be shut down until after the All-Star Break)? Beane had to get something for Harden, and he chose the perfect time to do it (IMO).

Yes, Harden’s stuff is E-Lectric! But, Harden is a 5-6 Inning Pitcher, especially if you plan on getting 20 Starts from him in a season. Is an average of 5.2 Innings Pitched, 1-2 ER good enough for everyone?

by Colorado Fan on Jul 11, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions

well, if you were to actually utilize Gaudin...

...then yes.

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions

Moises Alou's a very good hitter

Better than anyone the A’s have. Let’s go get him from the Mets.

Also, yes the Cardinals are definitely a better team than the Cubs. It’s just luck and random variation that their top 3 starters are injured.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 11, 2008 7:29 AM PDT reply actions

Alou is out for the season (probably)

The Cards can’t really complain about luck too much since Ludwi-jols is doing what he’s been doing.

by nevermoor on Jul 11, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions

That's my point.

Alou’s not a very good hitter. He can’t get onto the field. Health is part of being an athlete.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 11, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Gotcha

On that we certainly agree

by nevermoor on Jul 11, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm interpreting this as...ineffective sarcasm...

RIP Tim Russert, quintessential Buffalonian.

by Cutthemullet on Jul 11, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Interpret it however you want

Like it or not, athletes actually need to be able to compete on the field of play. Saying that an athlete is better than another athlete, is only s/he was healthy, or not injured is like saying that an athlete is better than another athlete if only s/he could run faster, or jump higher, or jump further, or throw harder.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 11, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions

depends

i agree with you generally, but this isn’t true in the case of truly random freak injuries- say a comebacker line drive hitting a pitcher, or a broken finger from an HBP. Neither of those injuries have to do w/ athleticism.

You’re right about injury-prone athlete though…

by ohmangoAs on Jul 11, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions

What's the over/under on

“Thank you Billy” and “Billy’s a genius” fanposts the day Harden is scratched and/or goes on the DL?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2008 8:55 AM PDT reply actions

10

No one wants to change their position on the interwebs

by nevermoor on Jul 11, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions

obviously you joined AN post-oaktoon.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 11, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Why is Gallagher's ceiling

Only a #3 starter? Are you just saying this because you read some columnist’s article that says that is what his ceiling is? What do these people know about baseball? And have any of them looked through his minor league stats? People said Haren’s ceiling was as a #3 starter. He turned into an awesome #2 starter.

Gaudin doesn’t fit with our future plans. He’s not really that great a starter and would be left out next year as well in the bullpen as well as the rotation with our young guys coming up. The rest of the league knew this and that’s why he didn’t command more. Hardly anyone except for the Cubs would touch Harden with his injury history. I think this was a fine trade given the market for Harden was small. And why is everyone on the Harden bandwagon now? He hasn’t gotten past 70 IP in the past 2 seasons and people were calling for his trading all of last season! He’s a ticking time bomb at this point.

I think the A’s scouting staff has earned the benefit of the doubt in scouting pitching talent. We’ve had some great young arms come through here via trade or via the draft that have “overachieved”. Gallagher is just another one of those kids who will do well here. He already has a better WHIP than Gaudin, and he’s only 22.

Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?

by baseb3383 on Jul 11, 2008 10:58 AM PDT reply actions

Its pretty hard to drive up value

when only one team was trying to acquire Harden. Billy got what he could and Im glad I dont have to worry the next time Harden takes himself outta the rotation when he pulls a lat getting outta bed.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 11, 2008 12:18 PM PDT reply actions

I don't understand the lack of faith in billy beane on this website.

How many times has he gotten value out of players that LOOK bad? A lot of players LOOK bad when you’re going on traditional statistics. Dana and Greg are two really good examples of what Billy Beane can do.

The fact that the A’s are even REMOTELY close to the Angels this year shows how good of a GM Beane is. The A’s SHOULD be on their way to a 100 loss season but they are actually in contention.

by emar24 on Jul 11, 2008 5:52 PM PDT reply actions