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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

ESPN rumor (untrue it appears): Harden shut down until after the break?

Did anyone else hear this report on the A's pregame and ESPN?

I know he looked hurt in his last two starts, but would Bean Knowingly trade a player that is headed for the DL?

If anyone else has heard this or seen this can you post a link?

I wish nothing for the best for Harden and hope he is able to make this start. Plus it would be fun to see shut down the Giants again.

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He’s slated to pitch day after tomorrow

by windyfelix on Jul 10, 2008 7:24 AM PDT reply actions  

yup

That’s what ESPN said last night on Baseball Tonight. They showed Rich sitting on the bench, wearing the Cubbies blue uniform. He looks much better in green and gold…...

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 10, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

natch

I bet the game will be on WGN

by OaklandSi on Jul 10, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah i dont think he has been shut down, but

will they let him swing the bat at all or just go up there are stand with it on his shoulder and take the 3 strikes?

by A'sfaninNC on Jul 10, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

or heaven forbid he run the bases.

Freaking 19th century baseball.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Jul 10, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was just saying that hitting and running the bases may up the chances

that Harden gets injured. The Cubs didnt trade for him to get hits and drive in runs. So why not reduce the chances of him hurting himself batting and just take the out unless its a spot where the out would cost them the game.

by A'sfaninNC on Jul 10, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Please either change the headline or delete this diary

It’s bad info.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 10, 2008 10:13 AM PDT reply actions  

+2.71828

(nerdiest thing i’ve ever done. right there.)

by oakinboston on Jul 10, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK, I'm now flagging this diary

and asking the moderators to do what the author won’t.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 10, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

done

... arousing men to burst the chains under which monkeyish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves ... @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 10, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is it

my myboyblue or your myboyblue? Whose?

by easyraider on Jul 10, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yo! UR my boy, blue!

... arousing men to burst the chains under which monkeyish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves ... @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 10, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm no literary

But I do believe it should be “You’re” not “Your”

by methodrampage on Jul 10, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on Jul 10, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

espn is crap

they also reported twice that Harden made the all-star team.

by sf drift king on Jul 10, 2008 10:15 AM PDT reply actions  

It's worse than crap

When Duke made the All-Star game the first time, ESPN.com’s All-Star roster page had a picture of Rich Harden in his spot.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jul 10, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't take down this post

I believe it’s true whether ESPN is reporting it or not. It’s the only way I can justify the trade. It’s the only way the A’s include Gaudin in the deal. The A’s got back one so-so prospect, and I heard David Forst claim last night that the reason the deal got done was because the Cubs insisted and persisted. Excuse me, but that’s a load of crap. If Harden’s healthy, Tampa has A grade prospects, as does St. Louis and many other teams. If Harden’s healthy, every team in baseball needs him, and nearly every team SHOULD be willing to give up bigtime talent to get him. He’s that good, and everybody knows it. Even if he’s not healthy, he’s worth giving up some talent and taking a chance. The Cubs gave up virtually nothing. They got an upgrade to their pitching staff (Gaudin for Gallagher) and a gamble that Harden will be healthy at some point this year – maybe during their playoff drive. The A’s got room on their roster to experiment, and another marginal major leaguer (Gallagher) to compete for a low level slot in the rotation. Murton and the others are irrelevant.
I don’t like the trade, but if it means a fast track for Cahill, Gonzalez, Simmons, Anderson or anyone else that has real potential, the let’s see what they can do. In any case, I’ll believe Harden is healthy on Saturday after I see him pitch well, but I don’t believe that he’s really even scheduled to pitch.

by iceplant on Jul 10, 2008 12:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Gallagher is as good a prospect as Cahill, Gonzalez, Simmons, and Anderson

He’s 22 and pitching well in the bigs.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Jul 10, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, I undervalued Gallagher to make my point

but it’s still essentially Gaudin for Gallagher and roll the dice on Harden. The other players are irrelevant. Gaudin is better now, which appeals to the Cubs, while Gallagher MAY have more potential in the long run AND is cheaper for the next 3 years. They are roughly the same age (2 years apart), and indistinguishable in value for the next few years.

by iceplant on Jul 10, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, your point does sound compelling if you abandon all facts

Murton’s OPS puts him #2 on our team behind Cust. That is not irrelevant (especially since he’s got to be the callup if Swooney goes DL.

The catcher is a very real prospect who has had a bad half season. It’s waaaaay too soon to give up on him, especially since he crushed the ball in his first professional stint.

Patterson is the only one even colorably “irrelevant” and he has a SLG > .500 which is not too bad for a 2B (even one who, apparently, plays poor defense).

Finallly, Gaudin was born March 24, 1983. Gallagher was born December 30, 1985. Thats more like 3 than 2 years, and to say they are “indistinguishable in value” ignores the more important age difference: Gallagher is a 0+ player (basically free for the next few seasons while Gaudin is already making seven figure salaries and will be through his arbitration years by the time we’d have to pay Gallagher real money.

by nevermoor on Jul 10, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced Gaudin is that much better now...

...I’m pretty bullish on Gallagher after a longer look. I still don’t like the trade, but I do like Gallagher-and they aren’t roughly the same age, Gallagher is almost 3 full years younger and is pitching well as a 22-year-old starter. Gaudin was getting lit up out of the pen at 22…at 23 he had a nice ERA but a very high WHIP-Gallagher’s WHIP is already pretty solid.

The other players are not irrelevant either, both are plus situational bats that figure to contribute more than what we have now either through a trade package or by playing. For example, if the A’s don’t/can’t sign Ellis they are completely void at 2B, even if Patterson sucks defensively, he might already have a better bat than Ellis. Ellis didn’t really hit in AAA, though his AAA numbers translated directly to his majors numbers. Patterson has actually hit in AAA, and almost well enough to overcome suckiness at 2B.

And Murton sliding into the primary RHB corner OF job is a nice upgrade.

There are a lot of positives in this trade, I preferred and still prefer keeping Gaudin and rolling the dice on Harden, but there are factors like money and injury that I’m not as qualified to pull the trigger on as Beane is. Gaudin might be very good, but the fact is he wasn’t starting and therefore was very expendable as far as this season’s performance goes as the A’s are loaded with RHP talent out of the ‘pen, so Gaudin can almost be deleted when weighing this season’s in-season consequences (Where he can be factored in is as Harden’s replacement when measuring Harden’s injury risk, which I believe was analyzed in one of the articles). As far as this season goes Murton+Gallagher+Patterson might produce a better run differential than Harden can alone for the Cubs—Of course the A’s take on risk if their rotation takes a hit from having dealt Gaudin (But in the future, we have a million Gaudin’s coming up anyways to replace him).

The problem with the above analysis is that even if Murton, Gallagher, and Patterson produce more runs in the season than Harden, in the postseason Harden’s value over Gallagher goes way way way up, especially vs. the lineups that they’ll be facing, and postseason experience factors etc. I’m was happy enough with the A’s this season that I felt they should have been playing to have the best PLAYOFF team this year.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Jul 10, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

For example, if the A’s don’t/can’t sign Ellis they are completely void at 2B, even if Patterson sucks defensively, he might already have a better bat than Ellis.

Have you actually looked at the A’s depth chart lately? It’s better than you think, particularly at second base. No, Jemile Weeks is not going straight to the majors, but I see no reason why Petit couldn’t take over and easily best Patterson in overall play. Jesus Guzman is probably a better prospect than Patterson too, because he’s younger. Even Cliff Pennington is a comparable player because of his vastly superior defense. Josh Horton won’t take much longer to get to the bigs.

I really cannot figure out how Patterson is useful to the A’s in the slightest unless they can flip him for someone else. They already have so many guys who do what he does that there’s no way that ALL of them will be injured at any given time—and they have Ellis, who’s the clearly superior option to all of them if they actually pay him.

I dunno, maybe they think he’s capable of playing center field or something. I’m not sure how that helps the A’s either, since it just kicks Gonzalez to a corner and displaces someone else.

No matter how many times I tilt my head and squint at this trade, it still looks like an albatross.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 10, 2008 3:39 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree. I hope that Patterson is used in another trade

with another prospect to pick up a decent hitter (minors or majors).

I think that if the A’s combined Patterson with a pitcher we could get a decent player or prospect who plays 3B or SS.

by Yellowhorse on Jul 10, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't say albatross...

...usually that’s reserved for a big-bad contract and the closest thing to a potential albatross would be Harden getting hurt + paid still. You can never have too many 2B prospects—Do you remember how many can’t misses we burned through before finally cashing in with Ellis, who was just a dude who OPSed .745 in AAA and they had no one else. Ortiz and German were the can’t-misses.

Since you are so indoctrinated as a Crosby hater, I would think you would love having Patterson as this would allow a salary-dump of Crosby in the offseason and open up SS for Pennington or Petit while still having 2B covered “just in case” they can’t get a deal done with Ellis.

And re:Gonzalez pushed to a corner, I thought he projected as a corner anyways. I have this feeling that you might be innately biased against Eric Patterson because of his older brother’s propensity to make lots of outs, but if you look at his minor league numbers, he gets on base like 20 pts. more than Cory. My initial reaction was “blah a Patterson and a 4.50 guy who projects terribly also”, but there is enough value in this trade that I don’t think it can be considered terrible whether Patterson and Murton are spare parts for us or future trade bait.

I think we’ve been sort of breaking it down wrong—
Harden straight up for Gallagher: This isn’t the ideal value you’d want for Harden, especially when you are in a pennant race yourself. And it could hurt and hurt tons for us in 2008 and 2009 should we make the playoffs. But it’s a completely reasonable trade if you don’t expect to make the playoffs and there aren’t other offers out there. The thing is I happen to think the A’s should have been planning for the playoffs and to win now, so I wouldn’t pull the trigger on this one. But it’s sort of a short-term strategical error, not a long-term value error. I would tend to actually like the A’s in this trade for long-term value.

Gaudin for Murton, Patterson, and a buy-low catching prospect who hit in college:
This trade makes perfect sense, trading out of a position of strength for some current needs or trading chips, however it shakes down. They currently have plenty of guys who can pitch in the pipeline and on the roster, but nobody who can hit now. Murton and Patterson can be viewed as desperation attempts at guys who can hit now, long term spare parts, or short term trading chips— Either way Gaudin figured to pitch out of the bullpen for the rest of this year and hit his arb years with younger, cheaper guys pushing him from below.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Jul 10, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

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