Roster moves a coming. Maybe?
So the only problem with having so many players on the DL is that sometimes they get better (knock on wood that this is not a jinx). So with that being said and the news that Mike Sweeney will be out the next 4-6 weeks with knee surgery and the Big Hurt out until after Interleague play, what are the A’s going to do when Little Sweeney, Santiago Casilla, and Joey Devine are ready to go, barring no setbacks with the pitchers? And what is up with Donnie Murphy?
With all that being said I’ll throw my thoughts into the pan and see what anyone else thinks. Ok so from reports the start or problem date starts around June 14th so what do we do…
1. When little Sweeney’s rehab time is up bring him back and send the sometimes human double machine Carlos González down to Sacramento for more seasoning. This time up was good for him but he needs some more triple A time. So that leaves the out field to start games of LF Crust, CF Sweeney, and RF Buck. Late in the game if needed move Sweeney to LF and Davis into CF. Not to bad defensively. Also when Chavvy is playing third, Crust can play his natural position, DH, and Brown can play LF or a whole shift and let Davis play CF while little Sweeney mans LF. This also works if Thomas and big Sweeney can not get back as soon as hoped.
2. When Casilla can go, one of the great pitchers in the pen will have to be moved and even as good as Ziggy has been (and I really hate to see it happen), he will be heading back to the Rivercats. This move sucks because I really want Ziggy to stay with the A’s long term.
3. When Devine is ready to come back is when things really get tough. So what do the A’s do? If it’s me, I do several things, starting with moving Chad Gaudin back into the rotation. Next send one of the rookie lefties to Sacramento. I would send Greg Smith first and see if Dana Eveland can be the back of the rotation guy for now if not can Ziggy start? So our rotation would be (in no order what so ever):
Rich Harden
Justin Duchscherer
Joe Blanton (until he’s traded?)
Chad Gaudin
Dana Eveland (Brad Ziegler only in dreams)
That’s a lot of righties but what else can you do. And if Eveland struggles I’m open to any ideas of a 5th starter, unless we let the entire bullpen be our fifth starter and each pitch an inning or two.
4. When and if Murphy ever is ready to go, Gregorio Petit winds up back in AAA. What is wrong with Murphy anyway?
So the solves things until the DH’s are back and ready to go at which time I am out of ideas on what to do. Or in others words cross that bridge when we get there. Any thoughts on this or other roster moves, either needed or wanted?
0 recs |
113 comments
Comments
what's the over/under
on the number of times the phrase “DFA brown” is used in the comments for this post, followed by a zonis lineup that says “c1” for catcher, when “c2” isn’t listed because the second catcher doesn’t start? ;) just kidding zonis.
"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006
by flipgatey3 on Jun 9, 2008 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lol truth be told, the main reason why I use C1
is because when you write up a lineup, every position besides Catcher and Pitcher (and Pitcher is never listed) has two letters. So when you write it out, it looks weird. And since almost all boards remove the extra space if you add one to line up the names correctly, I just put C1 to keep it in line.
by Zonis on Jun 9, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know
that’s what i had assumed
"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006
by flipgatey3 on Jun 10, 2008 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sardonically amused
by the frequency with which I see posts (here and elsewhere) titled “The coming roster crunch,” or “Roster moves needed,” or “Who stays, who goes,” or whatever. I can’t recall a roster crunch ever actually happening.
My guess? Casilla comes up, Street goes to the DL with a groin pull. Sweeney comes up, Travis Buck goes to the DL with… something. And didn’t Devine already have some kind of setback?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Devine setback?
I didnt know or have not heard of Devine having a setback? What gives with it?
by A'sfaninNC on Jun 9, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Merc-News had a bullet point a day or two ago
• Joey Devine’s injured right elbow isn’t responding well, forcing the reliever to shut down his throwing program for at least a couple of days.That doesn’t sound good.Devine, on the disabled list since May 30 with a strained ulnar collateral ligament, felt OK throwing Wednesday but had some discomfort during Thursday’s session.
“I get to a certain distance and there’s a little bit of restriction. It’s not letting me go past a certain distance,” Devine said. “They’re going to shut me down for a couple of days and see if we get it to calm down.”
Devine said he starts feeling pain when he gets back to a distance of about 90 feet, “where you have to increase arm speed to get the ball there.”
by Faust on Jun 9, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the linky
As per usual, my reaction to “where did you read that” was “um, somewhere… I forget…”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A roster crunch happened last year,
leading (at least in part) to the Bradley dfa…
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the last true "roster crunch"
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh ... whu?
AN 3.0 has now decided it doesn’t like the SHIFT key.
ANYway (that’s better) ... was going to make a bad joke that the last true “roster crunch” I remember was when Crosby broke Ellis.
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Mike Sweeney will ever have another ab as an Oakland
Athletic, I also believe with Ryan Sweeney back, they don’t need a pinch runner anymore, because they will have more speed in the outfield, so when Cust comes out, they will have Sweeney, or Buck for a defensive replacement, assuming Carlos is still around.
by theblackpearl on Jun 9, 2008 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Very possible
I just posted on the dld that he was DFA’s this morning but I still can’t find the link. It was announced on the radio show with Radnich this morning on KNBR.
Anyone who can find a link please post…........
by mrod on Jun 9, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who was DFA'd?
I don’t know if they would DFA someone who’s on the DL
by OaklandSi on Jun 9, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got it cleared up
Black Pearl got it straight for me. KNBR just fucked up on that one and said he was DFA’d instead of “having surgery and is on the DL”. Sorry for the confusion….........I’m glad MS is still on the team.
by mrod on Jun 9, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KNBR is not a legitimate news source...
I can get better information about A’s roster moves on the Jerry Springer show than on KNBR!
"You have to have a catcher or you'll have all passed balls."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda doubt that CarGo will be sent back down.
I think it’s a little more likely that Davis or Brown go.
Incidentally, it’s past June 1 so Foulke and Brown can be traded now, right? That seems like a mighty nice way to clear some roster space.
by mikev on Jun 9, 2008 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why do you want to trade Foulke while the team is still contending?
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on Jun 9, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Ziegler is arguably better
while Foulke arguably has more trade value.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it
How many times will Foulke have to provide his value in his career. When healthy he’s been lights out his whole career (save like 3 times he’s lost his closer job then pitched lights out). He’s looked very good every time I’ve seen him pitch this year, looks healthy. Healthy Foulke = best reliever in that pen.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 9, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
No.
K/BB:
Street 33/7
Casilla 22/4
Devine 28/7
Embree 25/11
Chad “2nd in the AL in walks last year” Gaudin 36/13
Foulke 15/9
In his glory days, Foulke was K’ing a batter an inning while rarely walking anyone. Not only has he declined severely since then, the A’s have three other elite relievers who are doing exactly what Foulke is.
Fully healthy, this is an incredible bullpen. Foulke is a solid middle reliever at this point who is completely outclassed by the outstanding group surrounding him. And the other candidates (Blevins, Ziegler, Braden, etc.) for the last spot in the pen are either young with upside or lefthanded or both.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to Jay Bruce it up and say:
“Sample Size.”
But Foulke is 35 and has had an injury. I fully expect him tho to sign a 1-year middling contract with someone next year to close followed by a big closer’s contract for his 37-year-old season. Age-wise he should age well as a soft-tosser—Assuming he can patch up the injuries that plagued him 3 years. But the pressure of playing in Boston and in Schilling’s bloody sock shadow had him rushing back from injuries to soon until he finally took a year off to get healthy.
We'll see...If you give me that he's healthy, I'd bet he'd have numbers roughly in line with his closing days by season's end. But that's why i gave the qualifier of "Healthy" Foulke...
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 9, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is up with this bug...
Look, Foulke isn’t the only one who’s been injured. Street slogged through groin soreness yesterday. Casilla gophered a home run ball when he injured his elbow. Andrew Brown didn’t stop pitching until he was seriously ill from appendicitis. Guys get dinged up.
Saying “sample size” is to completely ignore what is actually happening when these guys take the hill. Foulke is the one guy in the A’s pen (OK, not counting Calero…) who does not have good stuff anymore. Street and Casilla have their sliders. Brown and Embree have mid-90s heat. Devine has both. Gaudin and Ziegler are ground ball machines. Foulke does not have any of this.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foulke was never a hard thrower
Yeah that bug is annoying, the last paragraph was mildly annoying because it’s where I say “If you give me that he’s healthy…” because of my “Healthy Foulke” qualifier. Obviously there’s a really good chance he’ll just never be the same, but after a year of rehab and getting himself at full strength, this sample size of 15/9 is far too small to make a final judgement on a soft-tosser who never had the “stuff” of the guys that you mentioned, but has an excellent change etc. He’s “only” 35, which is still pretty young in non-fireballing relieving years.
I just remember watching him in has bad Boston years, he didn’t look right out there. And watching him now, he looks right. Granted that I don’t have very good visual baseball scouting skills, but if he is healthy, I’d expect his numbers K/BB numbers to come more into line with his career numbers—He might never get the K’s back, but the BB I think are an outlier due to rustiness from having a year out of the league.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 9, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he had about 5 mph extra on his fb back when he was good (4 years ago)
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not "rustiness"
It’s nibbling. He has to risk missing outside the zone because if he misses inside the zone, his batting practice fastball will get launched into low Earth orbit.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions -1 recs
I guess he's only missed "inside the zone" once then?
Sorry PT but he’s only given up one HR this year in 19.1 innings… which is only half of his career average of 1 every 9 innings.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 9, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no...
He’s only K’d 1/inning three times in his 10 years- even his best year in Boston he only got 79 strikeouts in 83 innings (with a 2.17 ERA). His walks are up this year but that’s probably to be expected for a guy who’s missed as much time as he has.
Pre-injury he put up six sub-3.00 seasons in a row (from ‘99-’04) so he’s been consistent when he’s healthy.
So, his ERA is in-line with his career norms, his HR rate is lower than usual at 1/19.1 innings and he’s given up fewer than one hit per inning.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 9, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, what you're saying is, his ERA is good because he's been lucky?
Yeah, that’s kind of my point.
His xFIP this year is like 4.50.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that what I said?
You lawyers sure have a way of reading between the lines
by Sacred#24 on Jun 9, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Low ERA, low hits, high walks, low HRs, low Ks"
is like a giant blinking, beeping red light with a “Lucky” sign under it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is, he really isn't
even by the conventional definition of the term. I don’t think anyone would claim that a guy who’s been tapdancing into trouble and then barely getting away with it repeatedly, as Foulke has, is on a “hot streak.”
The thing is, hitters usually make outs. So even when the pitcher screws up, he still usually gets away with it. There’s no real comparable phenomenon for hitters. I mean, I suppose you wouldn’t say someone whose last 10 at bats were 3 strikeouts and 7 broken-bat bloop singles was on a “hot streak,” but that never actually happens.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I have seen Eckstein do that.
"RIP: UserID: 517"
by Masaryk on Jun 9, 2008 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed those years you're talking about when he was the flame-throwing strikeout pitcher
You’d prefer high ERA, high hits, low walks, high HR, high K?
Sorry I just don’t get it.
To me it looks like he’s around his career numbers, that’s all I’m saying.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 9, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Low ERA—good, OK. Let’s explore this further.
Low hits—basically not a result of what Foulke is doing. BABIP is not really something that pitchers control. Although he’s shown some ability in his career to limit hits on balls in play, so I’ll give him something of a pass here.
High walks—you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that this is a bad thing.
Low HR—in the era where it’s been tracked, his HR/FB is about 8.4%. Right now it’s at 4%. That is going to regress.
Low K—Pitchers with low K rates give up more hits and put more runners on base.
He’s around his career numbers in BABIP and ERA. Every other aspect of his pitching this year has been significantly worse than his prior career marks. Right now he is pitching like an average AL reliever.
It says something about how good the A’s bullpen is that an average AL reliever is the #6 righthander in their pen, but that indicates that the A’s should trade from strength to fill weakness. The innings that Foulke is pitching aren’t sufficiently important, and he would be a more useful player on a club that was starved for effective bullpen pitching.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP
It seems like pitchers who rely on Fastballs & Changeups would always have a higher BABIP. Guys like Trevor Hoffman and Keith Foulke rely on getting the batter swing off balance.
Guys who rely on Fastball Location and Change of Speeds will always have a higher BABIP, won’t they?
by Colorado Fan on Jun 10, 2008 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we may have a terminology issue here
High BABIP= bad for pitchers.
Generally speaking, the lower your strikeout rate is, the lower your BABIP has to be to compensate for it. There are certain ways to influence BABIP—pinpoint control, inducing popups, knuckleballs—but the key word here is “influence,” in much the same way that one could “influence” the course of a river without actually stopping its flow…
Anecdotally changeup pitchers do seem to me to have lower “base” BABIP than breaking ball pitchers, but I haven’t done any kind of study on that so take that with about a ton of salt.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which numbers are significantly worse?
I’m not disagreeing, but can you back up that statement? Yes, his HR rate is bound to go up, but saying ”...if he misses inside the zone, his batting practice fastball will get launched into low Earth orbit” is a little presumptuous, don’t you think? I mean, really, when did he have a good fastball? Likewise, his K rate has always been low because he’s not a strikeout pitcher!
by Sacred#24 on Jun 10, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2003 was his best season, A's fans would agree on this, right?
That year he struck out 9.14 batters per nine innings and walked 2.08. This year he has struck out 6.98 per nine innings and walked 4.19. His BABIP was actually lower in 2003. The only “success indicator” that was worse for him in that year was his home run rate, which was a bit high because he gave up a lot of fly balls.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeouts and walks?
So compared to his “best year” his strikeouts are slightly down and his walks are up a little. Not pitching for a year (you could really argue that he hasn’t pitched in three) can lead to a longer than average adjustment period, especially for a control pitcher.
Just look at Duke- he’s gone from just under 9K per nine innings in his “best year” (‘05) to 6.3k per nine innings this year and from 2.01BB per nine innings to 3.06.
If these are the only two criteria then you need to take a look at Duchscherer too- especially with his “batting practice fastball.”
But in all honesty, comparing a pitcher to his best year really isn’t fair. In fact, the year before Foulke’s best year (‘02) his K/9innings was just 6.76, well below this year’s average yet he finished with a 2.90 ERA.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 10, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duchscherer moved from the bullpen to the rotation
That’s not a comparison that washes. Bullpen pitchers can be profligate with their pitch counts. Starters have to pitch to contact. This is (one reason) why the average starter has a worse ERA than the average reliever. Another is fatigue; starters who get tired tend to walk more hitters and strike out less.
2002 was the outlier in Foulke’s career trajectory, not 2003. Between 1999 and 2004 his K/9 was 8.3 to 10.4 every year except one—2002.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point was that he's capable of pitching well and not striking out a lot.
Believe it or not, that does happen, as is the case with Duke.
I guess by your rational Duke’s ERA should be lower, then?
by Sacred#24 on Jun 10, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Your point is wrong. He is not capable of pitching well and not striking out a lot. He has had 5 seasons in which he had low strikeout rates. In four of those five seasons, his pitching was subpar.
I still don’t understand what Duke has to do with this. His xFIP is good for a starter, his standard FIP is extremely good. Foulke’s xFIP is terrible for a reliever, his standard FIP is average.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for stating your opinion so eloquently!
In my defense, though, doesn’t your example show that 20% of the time (of the sample size at least) he was capable of pitching well while not striking out a lot? And that year he had a 2.90 ERA and showed enough for Billy Beane to make him an A that off-season.
In reality, of the five seasons you’re talking about two were at the start of his career- from ‘99 to the present his only years posting an ERA over 2.97 was the two years in Boston when he was obviously broken.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 10, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In hindsight, the low K rate in 2002
just looks like a fluke, coming as it did right in the middle of a bunch of seasons with much higher rates.
At the risk of teleology, I think it’s pretty easy to divide Foulke’s career into 3 phases—the MLB adjustment phase (to 1998), the dominant phase (to 2004) and the post-injury phase. The dominant phase (2002 aside) was characterized by high strikeouts and low walks. The other two phases, where he was much less effective, were characterized by average numbers in both categories.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about small sample size...
His “post-injury phase” is only 19 games.
by Sacred#24 on Jun 10, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh?
It’s three years’ worth of play. 2005-2008. I meant “post the onset of injury.” Basically the point at which his fastball velo dropped from mediocre to fringe.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 10, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His K-rate used to be high because he used to be a strikeout pitcher
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jun 10, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, how about that fastball that missed inside the zone tonight?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 11, 2008 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being right-handed is going to help Brown out
An OF of Buck in LF, Sweeney in CF (depite misgivings about his D, his bat plays a lot better there), and Dr. Gonzo in RF would be pretty sweet, with Brown platooning against lefties.
Davis has about zero value outside of running really fast and playing late-innings CF. Dump him.
President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium
by Joey C. on Jun 9, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought running really fast meant you outperformed your Pythagorean record
Dang, I need to stop drinking this Angels Stadium kool-aid.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez or R. Sweeney (CF)?
I’d much rather have CarGon in CF. Do my eyes deceive me? Am I right?
by Colorado Fan on Jun 10, 2008 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
long term gonzalez
short term because of gonzalez there is sort of a short term window to figure out exactly what we have in R Sweeney.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 10, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Prospectus sez that R. Sweeney can play a passable CF...
... and in terms of offensive production at that position, Sweeney’s average-first-power-later hitting approach fits the profile better. Put it this way—he has more overall value at CF than a corner spot.
Gonzalez, on the other hand, is projected to be a prototypical corner outfielder, and his defense there would apparently be superb. Especially with Buck not fitting that profile in RF (Gonzalez’s arm is stronger), a Buck – LF, Sweeney – CF, Gonzalez – RF seems to maximize team resources.
President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium
by Joey C. on Jun 10, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and whatever happened to
Denorfia. He’s still on the DL as well.
I might guess that Brown would go instead of CarGon for Little Sweeney. Or David.
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC
by closetasfan on Jun 9, 2008 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Whatever back issue he had, it relapsed during his rehab stint
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
conveniently the day after MLB told the A's they were revoking his placement to
Sacramento, because of a paperwork issue.
by theblackpearl on Jun 9, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow-- these are tough ones
Let’s go through this—how to get to 25
C—Suzuki, Bowen—nothing changing there
IF—Barton, Ellis, Crosby, Chavez, Hannahan, Petit—I don’t think they are ever going to feel good enough about Chavez’ back to cut Hannahan loose—or feel good enough about Hannahan at 1B, partic. with M Sweeney out another month minimum—to send Barton back down—so these 6 stay, with Murphy for Petit a possibility;
DH—Thomas
That’s 9 spots—4 more if they go with 12 pitchers, which seems likely at first
Cust-Brown-Buck-Gonzalez-Davis-RSweeney
Oops—either 2 go or it’s only 11 pitchers. I frankly see Emil Brown as eventually the odd man out here—he is simply going to be a platoon player unless both Buck and Gonzalez are bad/hurt—I would rather the A’s let Gonzalez keep playing 75% of the time up here and drop either Brown, Davis, both, or a reliever.
Pitchers: 11 man version/12 man version
This is equally vexing
First off, if Greg smith or Dana Eveland are bad for a stretch, and the A’s are still in playoff contention, I can see Gaudin replacing one of them and the lefty going to AAA until harden or Duke goes down, or Blanton or Harden gets dealt. But only if that occurs. If they each rebound I think Gaudin stays in the pen.
With Street-Embree-Casilla-Brown, for sure.
That leaves 1 or 2 more, depending on the OF situation. Given Ziggy’s options, One would think he rates behind Foulke. But if the guy keeps getting people out, why not cut Foulke loose once Devine returns??
Injuries may take care of these problems, but as has been said before, essentially the A’s have somewhere between 30-32 major league ready players—and only 25 slots.
by madmongoose on Jun 9, 2008 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to sound negative but i am guessing that the DL monster will fix the problem for us instead of having to make many moves.
by A'sfaninNC on Jun 9, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop talking about Harden getting traded!
Please…..........no more trading Harden talk. He stays…...no trade!
by mrod on Jun 9, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best time to trade your players is when no one wants to trade them
and the worst time to trade them is when everyone wants them dealt.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we should trade Ellis, right? :)
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot Kiko
But can’t believe he ranks ahead of any of the other right handers at present—he’ll get dealt somewhere
by madmongoose on Jun 9, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the A's getting rid of E. Brown
is an AN fantasy. I would rather see Carlos Gonzalez but I just don’t see the A’s making that move. But I have been wrong before.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jun 9, 2008 10:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Unless he totally tanks, which he hasn’t thus far, expect Emil to be on the roster through the end of the season.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"unless [...] which he hasn't"?
Really?
Define “totally tanks.”
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Longer than a couple weeks.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
say, like, a month?
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to have a definitive idea what it should be...
...so, fess up… what’s the hard rule that should apply to all players?
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Swooney, the PC and Buck in the OF for roughly the next decade.
I just don’t think Email fits the team’s picture (and I think he’s fully “tanked” in the last month )—hope we can get a kid or two for him. Davis has late-inning utility, at least.
I’d also prefer Petit over Murphy and rank the eminent trade-ability of the ‘pen men as Foulke, Embree and Calero. If Embree goes, I’d switch-out Gaudin and Eveland. Or how’s Blevins doing this year?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2008 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love how AN believes that there are takers for any player in an A's uniform
Takers for Emil Brown? Probably none, given other teams know that he will prob be DFA’d if he is not traded.
Foulke? Doubt he’ll bring back anything more than a B-prospect, and that’s only if some team is desperate.
So why not trade the valuable to others, say STREET, and then ride out the vets for the year, and hope the young players progress, like casilla and devine.
by uclabruin on Jun 9, 2008 1:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Foulke =/= Brown
I agree that Brown has no trade value. I do not agree that Foulke has no trade value. He’s a “proven closer,” and he has a shiny ERA. Brown is a proven loser (don’t blame me, this is how baseball people think) with a crummy batting average.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why i say Brown will net zero takers
and Foulke will get a B-prospect. But how many Jerry Blevins do we need in the minors?
by uclabruin on Jun 9, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blevins isn't a B prospect
More like a C+.
The better question is “how many Henry Rodriguezes do we need in the minors?” And given their high flameout rate, the answer is “a lot.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blevins wasn't a huge prospect, he was closer to a giveaway prospect.
We got him in return for eating Kendall’s contract after all.
by Zonis on Jun 9, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Carlos will return to AAA
Rather I see an OF of R. Sweeney, Gonzalez, and Buck, with Cust at DH until Thomas returns and then…Not sure what’ll happen if all are healthy, but I have a feeling that Gonzalez will stay in CF (which he has handled masterfully).
And I wouldn’t be shocked to see Emil Brown cut if/once all of R. Sweeney, Gonzalez, Buck, Cust, and Thomas are healthy. All can potentially outperform Brown now, and (Thomas excepted) should have futures with the team long after E. Brown is gone.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 9, 2008 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Trainman is positive he agrees with this post 100 percent
I also think if Frank comes back healthy then Cust is going to have a little less playing time because he has no business in the outfield period.
Buck/Cargon/Sweeney looks pretty good in the outfield to me.
by Trainman on Jun 9, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see it happening...
...that E Brown will go anywhere. If it comes down to a roster crunch, I think Beane will cut loose Rajai Davis before he’ll get rid of Brown. Personally, I think Rajai has more upside late in a game, but I still don’t see Brown going anywhere. Short of a trade, maybe.
On a side note: I like the shift in public opinion regarding R Sweeney.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney
In a crowded outfield, you’ve gotta earn your keep. He had no track record, and wasn’t earning his keep. If he comes back and slumps, he’ll go right back to the doghouse :-)
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 9, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed -- and Swooney's play was on the definite upswing, was it not?
His positioning and fielding were improving, and iirc he was hitting in the .290s for the season, which no other A is doing. I feel more comfortable with him on a corner and The PC’s blend of range and arm in CF, but I see him as a starter, with the JCOA DHing and 2H spotting Chavvie and PHing.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone seems to think Sweeney is an all star outfielder
when he hasn’t even broken an .800 OPS yet. He was simply our least-worst outfielder.
I think Sweeney is destined to be our 4th Outfielder (in constant use) for the future. Next year, I fully expect the Outfield to be Buck in Left, Cunningham in Center and Gonzalez in Right.
by Zonis on Jun 9, 2008 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Same, but Buck's persistent awfulness this year is starting to worry me
Well, that’s why depth is a good thing.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been fine since he came back, and did well in AAA
His hits are finding gloves right now (like 2 very hard hit balls yesterday), whereas he was striking out all the time earlier in the year.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed he looks a lot better
Mention his like 20 HRs since coming off DL also :-D
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Jun 9, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since he came back
He’s batted .200, with a .300 OBP and a .457 SLG.
Those are not good numbers.
I’m not saying “DFA Buck now” or something. Just that the numbers are cause for concern.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are "fine" numbers, above league average....
and I was suggesting that they are also somewhat misleading in the downward direction.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Long term… I see R Sweeney as a regularly used 4th OF, albeit probably a pretty good one, but not a starter.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roster Thoughts
A person I think the team moves is Petit. Also, they really don’t need Murphy. We really don’t need a 6th infielder.
Basically Hannahan and Chavez would not be DH. The Infield is Barton, Ellis, Crosby and Chavez with Hannahan as the utility man. Hannahan can play any infield spot. Also, Petit is getting no chance to play, he would at least be getting chances in the line-up at AAA.
The outfield is a bit crowded when R. Sweeney gets back and worse when Thomas returns. I don’t think E. Brown will be cut as we could use a right handed bat. I say we keep them all if healthy (Sweeney, Cust, Buck, Gonzalez and Brown can platoon into the 3 spots. I would also keep Davis until Thomas returns (or cut a pitcher). We could use one of the non-starting outfielders as a PR instead of Davis.
Once Mike Sweeney gets back then I would move Brown as you now have the right-handed bat that the team needs.
PROVIDED ALL HITTERS ARE HEALTHY.
1- R. Sweeney returns (lose Davis)
2- F. Thomas returns (lose Petit)
3- M. Sweeney returns (lose E. Brown).
by Yellowhorse on Jun 9, 2008 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Next send one of the rookie lefties to Sacramento. I would send Greg Smith first and see if Dana Eveland can be the back of the rotation guy for now if not can Ziggy start?Dana Eveland (Brad Ziegler only in dreams)
wtf?
wow, that may be one of the top 5 stupid/crazy ideas in AN history…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jun 9, 2008 5:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He could be the next Byung-Hyun Kim!
What’s that you say? Byung-Hyun Kim sucks pond water?
Well, bosh.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 9, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Yellowhorse's idea to have Hannahan as the only backup IF cracks the top 10
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 9, 2008 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until M. Sweeney gets back
so for about 1 month we would go with 1 back up infielder. (not counting Thomas).
The only other option is to send down one of our young outfielders who have all pretty much proved that they have to in the minors.
Petit rarely plays. He played yesterday because of Crosby’s injury. Well you might say that is proof as to why we need 2 back-up infielders. BUT the reason for the problem was that Barton, Hannahan and Chavez were all in the starting line-up. The team would no longer be able to use one of those 3 as a DH. You have 5 starters and Hannahan in case of an emergency like yesterday.
If someone gets injured for a few days then obviously you bring Petit or Murphy back up. I just think the extra back up IF is a wasted position when you have someone like Hannahan who can play all spots and ELlis and Crosby who never take a day off.
OK – What if we lose 2 infielders in the same game. My guess is that some people on the team outfielders and pitchers have played infield once in their life and could fill in until the next game when we bring someone up from the minors.
by Yellowhorse on Jun 10, 2008 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you missed the last couple years?
Crosby: not only does he have a sprained ankle and daytodayitis, but he’s also got a history of injuries and never gets a day off—a combination that’s sure to increase his chances of aggravating the injury or getting a cascade/compensation injury. He’s also not really capable of playing any other IF position, seeing as how he’s never taken a ground ball in anger anywhere else.
Ellis: despite the GS, struggling at the plate, also never gets a day off. Not enough arm strength to play SS or 3B.
Chavez: coming off of surgeries on his back an both shoulders. Already only PT at 3B. Also hasn’t played any other positions since, what, high school? Low minors?
Hannahan: not enough range or flexibility to play SS. Apparently washed out at 2B in the minors for the Tigers. Can play 1B … which eliminates our healthiest third baseman.
Barton: washed out at C and 3B in the minors. Not enough agility to play middle IF.
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 10, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
-30 on ziggy starting things
"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."
by SwampyD on Jun 10, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see no place for Murphy
so I imagine when he gets activated, he goes to AAA if he has options, if not DFA
by Trainman on Jun 9, 2008 6:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Patrol Craft
will get better experience manning the Central Garden of Oakland rather than Sacramento. He’s obviously a great talent and just needs to refine his skills. He’ll be better off learning the game against major leaguers. Now that this year doesn’t count as a full year for MLB service time, I think he’ll stay.
by ervance on Jun 9, 2008 10:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When R. Sweeney gets back
I think Brown is gone. He hasn’t hit since well since April, and even then when he was hitting, he doesn’t draw walks. He’s a liability defensively and on the basepaths. Davis is at least useful as a 5th outfielder given that he can play all 3 outfield positions and has speed and defensive skills. Brown won’t sniff the starting lineup with 3 young guys and Cust ahead of him. Sweeney, Buck, Gonzales, and Cust are all important for the A’s at least into next year. Brown has no place here at this point. He’s done. I will be quite pissed at the front office if they don’t make that move.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Jun 9, 2008 10:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dumping Brown, Foulke and M. Sweeney
The GM of the A’s brought these guys in the pre-season when everyone was healthy (including Denorfia). The only injured player was Chavez and none of them play 3B.
They were brought in when everyone was expecting a team that would not be in the pennant chase and expectations were very low. You might say it made no sense to add these guys.
So far many of the young stars are injured (Sweeney, Denorfia, Devine, Casilla) or not producing (Barton, Buck). These veterans have performed at the level of many on the team, in many ways they have exceded others on the team. The A’s have a winning record and are a hand full of games out of 1st place or Wild Card. WHY ON EARTH WOULD THE A’S DUMP THESE VETERANS NOW?
It makes no sense to sign these guys in the Spring and then cut them when we are still in the race. Why sign them at all then? The answer is that most baseball teams like having veteran players on them. Most of the great teams and desent teams have had players past their prime on them. For clubhouse morale, experience in big games and decent perfomances conventional baseball wisdom is one that says you can’t win the pennant without many veterans.
I think many of the posters have argued against signing them in the first place. I don’t know if its because they don’t believe that the team has any chance to compete this year so why play any veterans. Or if its just that many on the site favor young players and/or prospects in general.
Baseball teams have always had veteran players who play key and supporting roles. They help mentor younger players and provide needed experience. The A’s over the last decade have always had guys like Durazo, Hatteberg, Justice, Gant who no doubt were in no way considered parts of the future. I don’t think this will change this year either.
I think Beane is going to try and stay in the race and based on his past that has always meant the presence of veteran players. Thus, I don’t think these guys are going to be dropped UNLESS their performance is much worse than the other guys on the team. Brown is not playing that much worse than some of the other players.
by Yellowhorse on Jun 10, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
again, have you missed the last, uh, decade?
Why does such a wonderful man like such terrible things? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 10, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am certain that the last decade is filled of teams with veterans
many of whom were role players at the level of E. Brown.
Are you saying that Beane thought that Dave Justice and Scott Hatteberg were future stars when he brought them on the division winning club in 2002?
He like many successful GMs brought in a veteran on the downward slide of his career to help win a pennant. That is what Brown was brought in to do. His performance has been better than several other players.
by Yellowhorse on Jun 10, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emil Brown
in his prime or past it is worse than any of our other OF’s. If you think Emil Brown’s veteran presence is going to be the difference in the playoff race, I’m sure someone around here can find a great FAIL image for you.
"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."
by SwampyD on Jun 10, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Experience in big games"
Yeah Emil has lots of that.
Gant was cut…........eh I’m done with Yellowhorse for now.
"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."
by SwampyD on Jun 10, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the guys who are taking his job doing to get us pennant?
Buck and Gonzalez aren’t hitting the ball all that well. Back in April our most successful month Brown was hitting the ball well.
Why was he brought in then?
by Yellowhorse on Jun 10, 2008 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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