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Time to Get Your A's...or Not

Yes, folks, it's that time of year again.  Time for me to hand out my half year grades for our Oakland Athletics.  I'm going to do it a little differently this year.  In past seasons, I'd give it out to individuals, but I'm going to give it to the different portions of the team.  I'm going to break it out into starting pitching, relief pitching, offense, managing and front office.  I'll give my grade and my thinking as to why that grade applies and then standouts and disappointments.

As always, this is not scientific by any means.  Much of it has to do with the expectations that I had for that aspect of the A's I mentioned.

Starting pitching - A:  The A's started the season with a lot of question marks in their rotation.  I honestly thought that the rotation would include Lenny DiNardo and Kirk Saarloos right about now.  I figured Harden and Duchscherer would not have lasted and the emergency plan of DiNardo and Saarloos would be in full motion while we were waiting for Brett Anderson and Trevor Cahill to make it to the pros.  Granted, both have missed time with injuries in the first half, but they've also pitched a lot more than I thought they were.  As a matter of fact, the A's starting pitching team ERA is 3.48, the best in the entire majors.  The starting pitching has been absolutely, positively stellar and probably the biggest reason the A's are still within shouting distance of the division-leading Angels.  They've also been able to do it with two rookies in Greg Smith and Dana Eveland.  It'll be interesting to see how those two guys hold up over the second half.  The irony of all this is that the pitcher who the A's tagged with the "ace" tag before the season started happens to be their worst starter statistically right now.

Starting pitching standouts:  Rich Harden, Justin Duchscherer, Dana Eveland, Greg Smith

Starting pitching disappointments:  Joe Blanton

Relief pitching - A- :  If the major reason the A's have been winning is their starters, the relief pitching is the minor reason.  The A's have the sixth best ERA out of their relievers in all of baseball.  They've also done it with a cast of largely no names and folks that people didn't expect to be as good as they have been.  Santiago Casilla had a Dennis Eckersley-like start to his year.  Andrew Brown was fantastic.  Joey Devine was spectacular.  Brad Ziegler came from Sacramento to become integral.  The known quantities like Embree, Foulke and Street suddenly seemed to be the ones that made me more nervous than the less proven guys.  Still, the pen has been relatively solid.  Huston Street hasn't been as good as I'd like but I do suspect that he's been pitching through various injuries this year.

Relief pitching standouts:  Joey Devine, Brad Ziegler, Andrew Brown, Santiago Casilla, Chad Gaudin (he also could've made the starting pitcher portion too), Keith Foulke (yes, he's been good even though he scares me to death at times),

Relief pitching disappointments:  Huston Street

Offense - D+ :  The A's have the 25th best batting average in all of baseball.  A team that prides itself on having patience at the plate is 16th in all of baseball in on-base percentage.  And let's not talk about power.  The team is 26th in all of baseball in slugging percentage.  Not surprisingly, the team is 10th in the AL in runs scored.  If this team had just average hitting and the starting pitching continues to prove its might, the A's could truly be a contending team this year.  Now I suspected we'd have this issue, especially with a lot of very young guys getting their first true extended major league experience.  Carlos Gonzalez, Daric Barton, Kurt Suzuki and Travis Buck were all likely going to be a foundation of the A's offense.  I expected them to have ups and downs, but for Barton and Buck, it's mostly been downs.  Jack Hannahan was getting his first extended experience.  Jack Cust really only had last season in the pros.  So a lot of the offense was built on wild cards.  One major known entity was Frank Thomas who the A's picked up for a piece of Hubba Bubba and a used Hyundai when the Blue Jays dumped him.  Not surprisingly, the Blue Jays are one of the teams who has scored fewer runs than the A's in the AL.  Still, I suspected the A's hitting was going to be mediocre, but it's been downright bad at points.  There are a few guys who've been right about where I expected them to be, such as Mark Ellis and even Bobby Crosby (although he has been a bit better than I expected).

Offensive standouts:  Kurt Suzuki, Ryan Sweeney, Jack Cust (he does have an .823 OPS even if his BA isn't impressive), Frank Thomas

Offensive disappointments:  Travis Buck (possibly my personal biggest disappointment), Daric Barton (yeah he's really young, but he raised hopes of something special at the end of the year last year), Emil Brown (I expected him to at least hit left-handed pitching), Chris Denorfia (I thought he was going to be the regular guy in center field)

Managing - B :  I still hadn't made up my mind about Geren before this season started.  He hasn't done anything patently stupid and he's more flexible with his lineup card than Macha could've ever dreamed of being.  The problem is that when he's filling out that lineup card, he's often dealing with many of his best hitters not being there.  Ryan Sweeney has been arguably the A's best hitter this year and yet, he's been in and out of the lineup due to injury issues.  Mike Sweeney was hitting well and now he has injured knees.  Frank Thomas was getting in a groove and then he went down.  Eric Chavez has just recently become a regular in the A's lineup and he doesn't look 100 percent yet.  Still the starting pitching has made Geren look good.  He's made smart decisions for the most part with the bullpen.  Although I would really like to see him start to trust some of the younger guys a little more.  Foulke always looks like he's about to give up a bomb.  And Embree is always all about the heat, it's just a matter of whether someone gets geared up enough for it. One thing that I'm sure is a popular topic of discussion these days among the A's front office and Geren is what to do about Joe Blanton.  After yesterday's performance, I really think the A's have to think about replacing him as a starter, at least temporarily, with Chad Gaudin.  Still, given what the A's have had to deal with this year in terms of the injection of youth, unexpectedly bad struggles of guys like Buck and Barton, the myriad of injuries in the bullpen and to key offensive pieces, Geren has done a nice job of keeping a team that wasn't expected to compete in the running.  Much of that has to do with the starting pitching, mind you, but Geren has also done a pretty damn good job of handling the bullpen.

Front office - A- :  I know a lot of folks are going to automatically charge me with just giving Beane some undeserved praise here, but I honestly think that this could be the best job Beane has done in his time with the A's.  Yes, the team is still offensively deficient.  But it also has the best starting pitching in baseball right now and that's WITH the "ace" being the worst statistically on staff.  Danny Haren was awesome.  No one can dispute that.  But the A's have three significant chips already contributing at the major league level.  They also have a ton of talent in their minor league system now.  I'm not sure there are too many other front office groups in baseball who could simultaneously rebuild a farm system while keeping the major league team competitive for a division crown.  The biggest thing Beane has done is to build a team with depth.  So when an Eric Chavez can't play for months at a time, Jack Hannahan is waiting to take over.  Earlier in the season when Barton was struggling at first, Mike Sweeney saw some time there.  Greg Smith stepped into the rotation when Harden and Duchscherer went down.  Gaudin would probably be a top three starter for most rotations.  Yet he's sixth on the A's depth chart.  Brad Ziegler is there when the A's have bullpen issues.  Beane is nothing if not adaptive.  Yes, Emil Brown is seeming like a mistake right now, but he also had a ton of key RBIs at the beginning of the season when seemingly no one was batting in runs.  And Beane deserves a ton of credit for getting Frank Thomas for nothing.  Is the offense still a gong show?  Yes.  But Beane has done enough to cover up for the shortcomings by building the best rotation in baseball and a very steady bullpen to back it up.

 

Overall - A- : Honestly I wrestled with this one for a while.  I wavered between a B, B+, A- and an A.  But ultimately for me it came down to expectations.  I did not expect this team to be here halfway through the season.  I expected them to be in a distant third or even last place in the division.  But the starting pitching has kept this team afloat and right in the thick of the AL West despite low to no expectations from most folks. And my expectations were pretty low heading into 2008.  I thought I'd just enjoy watching some young kids come into their own.  Instead the team has fought and scrapped its way into second place in the division.

So there you have it.  My first half grades for our Oakland Athletics in 2008.  What grades would you give and why?  Who has been a disppointment so far and who has been a standout?

Better yet, give me some predictions for the second half of 2008.  Will the A's hang with the Angels or will they fade?  Will Harden and/or Duchscherer be sent to a contender for a truckload of quality prospects?  And maybe you even want to throw in the win total for 2008.  If I had to guess, I think the A's wind up around 86 wins and I do think either Harden or Duke will be dealt.

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1st half grades and 2nd half thoughts

First half standouts – Harden, Duke, Eveland, Smith, Swooney.
First half disappointments – Blanton, Barton, Buck.
Starting Pitching: A
Relief Pitching: B+
Offense: D
Defense: B
Geren: B-
Beane: B+
Overall: B+

Second half thoughts/predictions:

Harden will be traded to Phillies for a Haren-like haul. It may need to be a 3 way.
The schedule is going to make it very difficult for the A’s to stay within striking distance of Anaheim. 48 road games, just 33 home games and only 4 scheduled off days (not counting ASB). So far, Smith and Eveland have had 5 days rest in about half their starts. That will not be the case for the rest of the year, which does not bode well as Eveland has never thrown more than 117 innings on any level and Smith has never thrown more than 104 innings on any level.
I say they finish 82-79, with 1 game rained out and not made up.

A little plumbing! Got to plumb! Plumb the depths! The depths of hell! - Larry David, CYE

by Swooney's Left Foot on Jun 30, 2008 12:43 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Smith has never thrown more than 104 innings on any level

Actually, he has. In his first year out of college, he threw about 180 innings (in, granted, a seven-month season).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 1:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I count six off days

July 24 and 31, August 11, September 1, 15 and 25.

The stretch from August 12-September 1 is going to be a long one….home for a week (TB and Chicago), then off to Minnesota, Seattle, and Anaheim, then home for Minnesota, all with no off day….

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jun 30, 2008 8:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still see Harden as an off-season trade

as I don’t think Billy is going to get what he wants during the season. Let’s see Harden pitch the rest of the year with no major health issues (knock on wood!!!) and then he’s a Haren-like trade in December.

http://athleticsforlife.net

by Kelly on Jun 30, 2008 5:15 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mulder-like trade more likely

Harden is injury prone and only has 1 year remaining on his contract. If you can bring back a “Haren-Calero-Barton” type trade, you have to take it this offseason.

by Colorado Fan on Jun 30, 2008 9:59 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Harden

Would make better sense to trade him while his value is at its highest. Unless you’re thinking about making a serious run at the Angels.

by sggut95 on Jun 30, 2008 2:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments like these (and I know you're joking)...

... are going to make the inevitable fall that much more splatterific.

President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium

by Joey C. on Jun 30, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There will be no fall. He is impervious.

I figured being super positive will work this time.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 3:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Victorino

Looking back, its a shame that the A’s didn’t try to trade Blanton for a player like Victorino when Blanton had trade value…Victorino would have been a nice addition and moving Gaudin to the rotation would be nice.

by mills16 on Jun 30, 2008 6:41 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed - that would have been awesome

With the added advantage that Harden would have pitched a no-hitter!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 8:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blanton will be traded

For a solid – not spectacular – bat plus a prospect or two to a contending team (maybe the Yankees, where he could win 8 games in July / August / September just by pitching like he’s done on average this season).

By replacing Blanton with Gaudin and adding a little offense the A’s will win 5 more games than they would have otherwise. Harden and Duke will miss a combined 10 starts over the rest of the season. The A’s will still fade a little as guys like Smith and Eveland come back to earth. They’ll lose the division by 8 games and miss the wild card by 5. And the season will have been a spectacular success at that level.

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 7:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

some of the individual grades-- the whole seems right

4 of the 5 starters deserve A pluses—you would only downgrade them for injury (Duke, Harden) and rookie status (Smith, Eveland) but in terms of expectations how can they be anything but?

Blanton gets a D minus

BullPen is harder—I think Casilla, Devine and Brown all deserve at least an A minus. Ziegler an A plus. Foulke a B. Embree a B minus. Street a C minus Gaudin a B

Suzuki and Sweeney are the only two hitters i would give an A to. Ellis and Crosby are Bs. Chavez a B plus because of limited time. Thomas too. Cust a B minus. Gonzalez a B.

Buck an F; Hannahan a C minus; Barton a D; Brown a D. The rest are incompletes or too small a sample size.

by windyfelix on Jun 30, 2008 7:12 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Thoughts

Starting pitching = A
Bullpen = A-
Offense = D
Geren = B
Beane = A-

I think the A’s need to look for a trade in regards to Blanton. He looks like he could use a new address and I think Gaudin could step in and produce.

If the A’s can get Frank Thomas back healthy that will be a plus. Even with him in the lineup this team will not be a run scoring machine. The pitching has to hold up.

I see them hanging around till early Sept and then fading a bit. I do think the future looks good.

by KCa's on Jun 30, 2008 7:29 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pretty much agree with Blez on the grades.

I agree with the high grade for the front office if you’re counting the offseason trades of Haren, Swisher, Kotsay and Scutaro taken as a whole. I don’t know if it’s Beane’s best job ever and it certainly isn’t one of the great performances in the history of western civilization like Michaelangelo’s Sistine Chapel or Beethoven’s Symphony No 9 in D-minor, but Beane’s been very good as he usually has during the past 11 years. Most impressive has been its flexbility to start to emphasize speed (Davis, Weeks) and high-upside amateurs (Inoa, Hunter, Elgie, Berroa, David Thomas, Fitts, Contreras, Rosario, Duran).

Whether Blanton, Harden, Duchscherer or Street gets traded depends entirely on what’s offered, and I don’t see anyone moving until Sabathia’s situation is settled. Harden seems the most likely to move (Yankees, Braves, Cubs, Rays).

I don’t see a second half fade. The team’s Pythag is 47-34. The young starters are likely to run out of gas and Harden/Duke are liable to get hurt, but Blanton, Chavez, Street, Thomas, Buck, Barton, Gaudin and Gonzalez are likely to contribute a lot more than they have so far.

I can see Gio coming up. The following stats make him look a lot better than his ERA:

1 K/IP
2:1 K/BB
1.5 GB/FB
.21 IF/Fly

Of course he may hit an innings wall as well.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 7:54 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see a second half around .500

as the pitching regresses a bit (see Haren, Dan, 2nd half 2007 for an example) and the hitters improve marginally. So I predicted no wild card, trail Anaheim by 7 or 8 games at the finish, about 88 wins. Tampa Bay has too much momentum to miss the WC. Boston too seasoned to finish second in the AL East.

2009 should take the AL West, barring unforeseen career-ending injuries.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jun 30, 2008 9:49 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A .500 second half puts the A's at only 84.5 wins

If they win 88 games, they will actually have had identical first and second halves.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 9:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

quit bothering me with arithmetic!!

sheesh!!!
Who are you going to believe? Me, or your own two eyes??!!
8^))

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jun 30, 2008 10:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

underated is the kotsay deal

kotsay for devine seems like a steal, even though both are hurt. devine has great stuff..kotsay could be retired in two years. in billy we trust!

by KCB58 on Jun 30, 2008 11:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you're in an optimistic mood,

one thing to keep in mind is that the Angels are on pace to win 98 games so you would expect that the first half will wind up having been their better half. Starting pitcher stamina is a concern for the A’s but perhaps their diligence about pitch counts and their high number of off-days in April-June will pay dividends.

The only grade with which I would quibble is Geren’s “B”. What are the components of a manager? You could categorize the parts as:

1. Team ethos (maintaining morale, chemistry, focus)
2. Overachieving (getting the most out of your talent)
3. In-game tactitian (lineups, pitching decisions, pinch-hit/pinch-run)

It seems to me as if Geren earns a solid “A” for the first two, and given how many good choices have been unavailable to him with injuries to Harden/Duke, Casilla/Brown/Devine, Thomas/M. Sweeney, Chavez/R. Sweeney, it seems to me as if his tactician grade should actually be no lower than a B+ if not higher.

I give Geren a solid A- for his role in this team’s surprising first-half success.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 9:04 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hooray for optimism!

I’m not sure he’s getting the most out of Gaudin’s talent. You could also argue that about Barton and Buck.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 9:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well to Geren's credit

Barton and Buck have been given every chance to do their thing this year so I see no fault in his use of their talent. But on a side note if there was just some coach on the team that was responsible for the hitting, we might be able to get more out of the aforementioned two.

by A'sfaninNC on Jun 30, 2008 2:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what was that shit about vietnam?

"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006

by flipgatey3 on Jun 30, 2008 10:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice, um,

marmet, man.

Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.

by Leopold Bloom on Jun 30, 2008 2:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Nico

I have to agree with you on this one and not Blez. In the past few years, and even last year with Geren, I found myself more often than not screaming at the TV or radio for an A’s manager not pulling a pitcher, for not sending a runner, for not hit and running, etc. This season however I found that Geren and I agree more often than not, so at least in my self-important world Geren gets an “A” as it seems he is managing very logically thus far.

"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."

by OptimistPrime on Jun 30, 2008 11:30 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If

If the A’s are out of contention by Sept. 1, is there any chance A’s brass will rest Harden & Duke, and call-up Cahill & Anderson? It might be too soon to add them to the 40-Man Roster, but if they’re ready, they’re ready… you know?

by Colorado Fan on Jun 30, 2008 10:02 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe the test for Blanton will be the 1st 2 starts after the ASB. He looks gassed,

and if the extra 3 days doesn’t help, you have to pull him from the rotation.

by theblackpearl on Jun 30, 2008 10:03 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Defense needs more emPHAsis: so, here's my shot at it, without benefit of metrics.

Suzuki B+: very good on pitch-blacking, and that diving grab in Seattle, oh my. But slow to throw on steals and has heard a few footsteps. Great hustle on back-ups.

Bowen Inc.: seems competent; hope he plays more in second half.

Barton: B: terrific reactions and good glove on errant throws, but those pop-ups—yeesh

Ellis A: as in automatic. Great glove, good range, some routine spectacular plays. I relax when the ball’s hit to him.

Crosby B: decent glove, suspect arm accuracy. Tries to do a lot, which is a mixed blessing sometimes—wish he’d actually stop a few more when he leaves his feet.

Hannahan B: seems more comfortable at third with better range than last year.

Chavvie Inc.: seems 3/4-step slower than quicker-than-anyone. Not surprising—hope he shakes the recovery rust.

JCOA D: a vast improvement from where he was at the start of the season.

EBrown C: decent range but too casual, seems to lack concentration, careless and suspect arm

Swooney B: began playing too deep, gets slow jump, plus arm.

R Davis A-: terrific range and good glove. Good arm, uncertain jumps.

Long Gonzalez A: great jumps, plus glove, good range and terrific arm. AZ catch a memorable highlight, and even his few misses were excellent tries.

TBuck Inc.: Good range, good arm, weird reads. I’d be real happy with a Buck/Long-Gon/Swooney OF for the next decade.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 10:29 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

err: pitch-blOcking..

Dogfather typing, generally: C-

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 10:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good analysis, Dogfather

So much so that I forgive the tiping typping typign keyboarding.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 10:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So Dogfather's typing is worse than Emil's defense?

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jun 30, 2008 2:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DFTA

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yse, it si.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 3:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for the love of Ba'al, no!

Not even nicknames using “Long” in the OF again, please.

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 10:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aw, c'mon -- Terrence is so FarGone that he didn't even register.

I like LongGon a lot better than “CarGon,” and “Patrol Craft” is at the wall—and may be looking up…

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off topic

but the A’s are set to sign Inoa for a bonus of $4.25 million. I give the front office credit for jumping in front of everybody else to sign him.

by NateHST on Jun 30, 2008 10:52 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with almost everything

except the Huston Street analysis. I can’t see how he is a disappointment in any way, except for the fact that his spectacularly crappy offense either fails to give him the save op at all, or scores exactly one run in the eighth to go ahead 4 runs and take the op away from him.

Sure, he only has 15 saves, but he had only had 18 opportunities, and minus game one in Japan, the only saves he has blown were very recently, while he was obvioiusly fighting through a groin injury. His high ERA (4.00) is because of the two blown saves recently and the junk innings he’s pitched.

I don’t get the Street hate, at all. We could do a lot worse, and I’m not sure what else Huston could have done to earned praise? Maybe saved all 18 or 18 chances? He’s saved 15 of them. After the first game of the year to the beginning of last week, he was awesome, and has been fighting a recent injury, which explains some of it. We could have a worse closer.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jun 30, 2008 11:02 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right on baseballgirl

I think the complaints about street are mostly of the “he’s not Rivera or Papelbon” type.

Well, the A’s are not going to get them. What they do have is a very good – not great – closer who’s young and, if he stays healthy, will get better.

Imagine this team with a very good – not great – offense. Best team in baseball, right?

Until they become a big budget team, you’re not likely to see better than Street at the back of the bullpen. Huston is NOT the problem.

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 11:14 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with you on Street

He is not the best but he is not the problem.

Having on average 4 guys in the line-up hitting below .240 is

by Yellowhorse on Jun 30, 2008 11:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I were Beane, Geren would be fired immediately for that comment

Because it shows he doesn’t understand how guys like Cust are effective and productive major league players. If any team needs a manager to not say some stupid shit Dusty Baker would say, it’s this team. Geren, I just dropped your grade to F-minus-minus-minus-get away from my favorite team forever.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 11:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No wonder Geren's always positive

One critical comment and everyone wants his head…

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jun 30, 2008 11:17 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it's a legitimate critical comment, I'd be fine with it.

Something like, “Kurt Suzuki needs to work on blocking the plate” or “Crosby needs to concentrate more when he makes his throws” would be perfectly acceptable.

Saying “You should put the ball in play instead of striking out” is stupid.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 11:22 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's referring to guys like Barton taking

called third strikes, on pitches that get a lot of the strike zone, with runners in scoring position, and he’s right. Believe it or not, there is a time to adjust in order to make more contact without sacrificing everything that got you to the major leagues.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 11:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree re: Barton.

He’s just not aggressive enough, and he doesn’t do enough with the pitches he DOES swing at.

Cust needs to be left the hell alone, though. If he doesn’t swing, it was probably a ball (or a nasty breaking ball in the zone)

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 11:36 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mikev, one thing I'd add about Cust

is that I think the other teams have the following book on him: When the count is 3-2 (which it often gets to with Cust), you just need to throw a breaking pitch for a strike to get him.

It looked like Sanchez threw a “get me over” strike yesterday knowing that Cust’s approach on 3-2 is,”sit dead red and hope the guy can’t throw a breaking pitch for a strike.” Trouble is, at this level they can. It’s one thing to take a crackling slider on the black in a fastball count, but it’s another thing to take a “get-me-over” curve lopped over the heart of the plate.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 12:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would agree - Cust's nemesis seems to be breaking stuff in the zone.

That, however, is something that he would be much more likely to make an adjustment on.

"Get better at hitting breaking pitches in the zone" is fairly black and white.  It's something that's easier to work on and point out.

“Put the ball in play instead of striking out” isn’t quite the same.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 1:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true, geren is taking about situational hitting

the a’s have done a decent job in stretchs, this year, but you need contact first and third with (1st and 3rd innings saturday) no out, mr. cust. you need contact 1 out in the ninth man on second in a 1-0 game, mr. barton. strikeout swingingthat means at least you were trying to drive in a run. trying to draw a walk with men on doesnt get them home too often… it just leaves it up to another medicore hitter

by KCB58 on Jun 30, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is totally legit

Leaving Cust aside—just watch Barton hit. Or rather watch Barton watch. Given the results lately, I’d say it might be advisable for a couple of the boys to follow their skipper’s advice.

by windyfelix on Jun 30, 2008 1:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When you are up TWICE in a game and strike out with runners on 1st and 3rd, the manager

has every right to be pissed. You are saying that if Cust adjusts his swing once a game, to just make contact, he won’t be a productive major leaguer. That is why you are here on a blog, not managing or coaching. That is absurd. Damn near everyone on AN, says the A’s srike out too much, and now Geren is telling it to the team. I am sure he said it in a meeting before he said it to the media, but if he didn’t that would be the only problem I had with it.

by theblackpearl on Jun 30, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust is not in the big leagues because he adjusts his swing and just makes contact.

Cust is in the big leagues because when he swings, he hits the ball REALLY REALLY HARD.

Asking players to do things they’re not good at is asking for disaster – or a Bobby Crosby failed sac bunt.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 11:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reason #1 the A's aren't scoring more runs. If you look at the best hitters in the

Majors, they ALL adjust from time to time. Even Ortiz, didn’t he bunt, or intentionally hit away from the shift a few times, Manny shortens up with 2 strikes. same approach, expect different results, type of thing

by theblackpearl on Jun 30, 2008 11:30 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're comparing Cust with two of the better hitters of this generation.

Okay, lets throw him under the bus for not being a HOF caliber hitter, I guess.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 11:38 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why is the inability to make little adjustments any worse of a weakness than

any other, like having no power, or swinging at too many sliders off the outside corner. I’ll take Cust just as he is over anyone else on the A’s who can “adjust a little depending on the count/situation”.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 1:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not just Cust. It's anyone who isn't adjusting.

Barton is a big one right now. That strike three he took the other night when he flipped the bat like it was a walk when it was down the middle was just horrible.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 30, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barton's been sucky in all situations.

Your example isn’t nearly the worst thing he’s done.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 1:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, that was genuinely awful and (should be) embarrassing

I’m starting to wonder if there’s something wrong with Barton’s eyesight.

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 1:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't fire him

I’d give Slusser a call.

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 11:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is she single?

Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.

by Leopold Bloom on Jun 30, 2008 2:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No.

Another sports reporter. Writes for the Merc. I can’t remember his name. Dan something, I think.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jun 30, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh

He’s right… the team has been striking out far too often of late. What was it, 14 times on Saturday? No team is going to have like a .500 BABIP and sustain it for very long. It’s just impossible. If you strike out that often, you will not score runs. Period.

Cust is Cust. He’s not the issue here. The issue is… well, pretty much everyone else. But most notably Barton, Emil Brown and Carlos Gonzalez. And Rajai Davis, I guess, but he’s clearly not a major league hitter.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Emil Brown belongs in your last sentence

(No, he doesn’t, really—but it was too good a one-liner to pass up.)

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 1:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then Geren should be fired for freaking out about a small sample size

Especially when it’s one game against one of the best young pitchers in baseball.

Yes, Barton is striking out too much. But the problem isn’t too many strikeouts. The problem is he’s doing things he never used to do (for whatever reason) and that’s causing him to strike out. The strike outs are the result of some underlying problem and not the actual problem. And that’s what bugs me about this. Not only is Geren identifying the effect as the cause, he (and other coaches, apparently) don’t seem to be identifying the cause of the problem with Barton.

Brown and Davis, whatever. I don’t have any real expectations of those guys. Gonzalez looks good at times, but he also looks like an overmatched rookie at times. That’s going to happen, and I don’t think there’s anything fundamentally wrong with him other than his plate discipline (which isn’t a new issue).

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 1:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not a small sample size

The A’s are 5th in baseball in whiffs this season. That’s unacceptably bad for a team that’s almost totally devoid of power threats. It’s a ticket to a low batting average and, when combined with said lack of power, a crummy offense.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 2:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do have to work here, you know...

but luckily, it’s my lunch hour and I went for the quickie pizza slice.

Alright, I’m going to say that if a guy has negative WPA and strikes out more than average (17.5%), he’s been a problem player from this perspective. Let’s have a looksee.

Hannahan—28% K rate
Gonzalez—23% K rate
Barton—27% K rate

Surprisingly, Emil Brown isn’t on this list. Anyway, those three are your primary offenders in the current lineup. Perhaps it’s just rookies struggling like rookies, I don’t know. What I do know is, it’s a problem and it’s dragging down the A’s offense. It’s certainly not the only problem, I’ll say that much.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 2:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With Hannahan it isn't over-selectivity, though -

it’s swinging through good fastballs. He’s a guy who needs to be platooned “plus fastball / ordinary fastball” instead of “left/right”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's true for all three of them

I have basically no problems with the A’s approach at the plate in terms of what pitches they swing at. (See below.) What I have a problem with is the number of pitches that they swing and miss at. And that is not a mental thing, it’s a problem with their contact hitting ability. Which, right now, stinks. The A’s are, far too often, striking out swinging on hittable pitches in the strike zone.

Maybe they’ll improve in the future—certainly I would hope Barton and Gonzalez will. As of right now, they aren’t very good at it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 4:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still think Geren's comment is a dumb one if the problem isn't approach

If Barton and Gonzalez are simply overmatched because they’re young (and, possibly, though not probably, not as good as expected) and they’re not doing anything wrong, calling them out is a really stupid thing to do. And that’s what it seems like to me when I watch. It doesn’t appear that they’re trying to murder 0-2 pitches and they just can’t do it. How many times have we all said that Barton looks lost at the plate? I just don’t think that has anything to do with making an adjustment.

Hannahan is overmatched, too, but that’s just because he’s a marginal major leaguer. Again, it’s not an adjustment issue. I don’t really blame Geren for playing him since there aren’t a ton of other options, but criticizing bad players for being bad is just silly. A 28 year old doesn’t fix bad, at least not since a bunch of substances are now banned.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 1, 2008 2:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

About Geren's comments

He didn’t say anything that the rest of the world and some aliens in space that can get the TV signal from Earth don’t already know. How many times over the past few weeks has the Game Threads be blown up with comments about A’s players taking the 3 strike without even taking the bat off their shoulder. There was nothing wrong with what he said, he is a manager (and they are supposed to help make the team better right?) and if stepping on a few toes will make this team better then more power to him. The truth hurts sometimes but it is still the truth.

by A'sfaninNC on Jun 30, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure, everyone's saying it.

And I generally disagree with the philosophy. Strikeouts don’t bother me any more than other outs, even if it’s frustrating when a fly out or ground out would’ve gotten a run in.

I, too, am bothered by Barton’s lack of contact, but not because he didn’t come through in any particular situation. It’s because he’s never really been a strikeout guy and it points to something fundamentally wrong with his current approach. So, like, fix it, Geren.

And leave Cust alone.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 2:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay, then you can not be bothered by it.

However, I will be bothered by it especially when the fly out or ground out would have scored the run. I’d rather the guy pops out in that situation instead of striking out because at least he’s doing something and making contact.

After all, that’s what this is about: Scoring runs.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 30, 2008 3:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After all

Every single major league player has a BABIP that’s higher than their batting average. Turning a strikeout into a ball in play gives them a chance of a hit (not merely a productive out). In almost every at bat, a strikeout is the worst or second worst outcome possible. Being “ok” with it seems silly.

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 6:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's fair to assume, however,

that every hitter, if he put every single ball into play (let’s say he was told he would have to sleep with Phyllis Diller if he ever struck out) would have a lower BABIP than he currently has in real life.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 6:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps

but if they put all those strikeouts in play, a fair portion (at least 1/5) would end up being hits.

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 6:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And Phyllis would be lonely :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 6:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, because in the general sense people are assuming that...

...just because we’re talking about something other than a strikeout, it’s always going to be some kind of other out.

Of course, it wouldn’t be.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 30, 2008 6:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I predict that the number of strikeouts looking

will decrease for awhile at least especially with Barton. The message has been sent.

IMO there is nothing worse than a K looking when there is a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs. I think anyone would agree with that.

Cust has 41 K’s looking this season which leads the world. I guess we have to put up with that as part of what he brings to the table. I do notice he swings earlier in the count at times and will go after the 1st pitch if he can hit it so I don’t have a problem with him.

Barton I do because he is not yet living up to his potential so when he K’s I feel like reaching thru the TV and clobbering him, especially when runners are in scoring position.

by Trainman on Jun 30, 2008 2:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Worse? Well, a line drive double play would be worse, or a flyball with the runner thrown out trying to tag up

But a strikeout wouldn’t be any worse than, say, a grounder back to the pitcher, or a popup on the infield, or a grounder to first base or third base…

sigh.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 2:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's the old saying, "Good things happen when you put the ball in play"

Yes, a DP is the worst thing that can happen but every team does that.

A strikeout looking is just that an automatic out. At least when it’s put in play there is a chance for a hit or the outfielder can drop the ball or an infielder can make an error. So many more ways to get a positive result.

by Trainman on Jun 30, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, hey

If you take the pitch, you could be safe on a dropped third strike!

Of course it’s not LIKELY, but if we’re just counting ways that you could theoretically get on base…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust striking out looking

If Cust (who is prone to swinging through pitches, especially breaking balls) didn’t have those 41 looking Ks, he’d also probably have half the walks he has and – I’d bet – just as many strikeouts. He might have a couple more hits, but not likely any extra home runs. That’s the whole reason I’m not bothered by his Ks. His entire offensive game depends on him not swinging at close pitches.

That is, of course, different from swinging as hard as possible at an 0-2 pitch when a little contact is needed. I would agree that if he is going to swing, he should just try to do what he can to plate the run. But striking out looking won’t bother me because I can see the big picture with his game.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 1, 2008 2:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How is this offense a D+

When they’re 9th (not 10th) in the AL in runs scored? Wouldn’t that make all those other teams below a D? That’s pretty tough grading. I feel like you would give the Rangers and Red Sox a B-, even though they lead the league in runs scored. Or is this one of those ridiculous college classes where one person gets an A, one gets a B, two get a C, and everybody else a D and F?

The A’s offense doesn’t usually rank terribly high in OBP because their batting average is lower. It’s been that way for years now. They’re still third in the AL in walks, which shows they are a patient team. If you expected the A’s to be medicore and they have been, how do they get a D+?

And how does Geren get a B? He plays around with the lineup far too much and he still hasn’t grasped the concept of using a bullpen. I’d give him a C if I was nice and giving people a full grade higher than what they’ve earned.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 11:10 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They're 10th in runs scored according the MLB stats page

It goes:

1. Texa
2. Boston
3. Chicago
4. Minnesota
5. Detroit
6. New York
7. Tampa Bay
8. Baltimore
9. Cleveland
10. Oakland
11. Toronto
12. Anaheim
13. Kansas City
14. Seattle

by Blez on Jun 30, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not the stat I stated

I said in runs scored. He didn’t state that either.

by Blez on Jun 30, 2008 12:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My mistake

I didn’t even make the post to correct you on such a small detail anyway. I thought br.com had the teams ranked by runs scored, not runs per game.

I still think my overall points stand though. To give a near-failing grade to a team that resides in the middle third(ish, ok, there’s not 15 teams… but they’re on the cusp of being a middle third team) of runs scored isn’t right. Especially when the grade has to be given based on expectations, right?

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 2:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

that is a valid point. I’m really basing it on thinking that out of the younger players, one of them would’ve emerged as a real difference maker. I expected the offense to be better than last season and it just doesn’t strike me as much. It feels like the same stagnant group from last year but that’s likely unfair to a lot of the young guys.

by Blez on Jul 1, 2008 12:18 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The difference to me

Is that the young guys are going through the growing pains/rebuilding season. Of course, the growing part is key. We won’t know until later – and we can’t really be sure when – if this is a bad offense or an improving young offense. I guess I’m just more patient because I expect good things later.

I suspect you would give the offense a better grade if the pitching was meeting the lower expectations, the team was 5 games below .500, and we could all just watch the young guys develop without thinking “if only Barton would hit 50 points higher, the A’s could really be something this year.

Here’s a bright side: Kurt Suzuki is an above-average offensive catcher right now, at age 24 and without showing much power at all. I think he’s going to really surprise people with how useful he will be offensively.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 1, 2008 2:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a bad offense whose numbers have spiked a bit from a few high-scoring games.

Or have you missed the high number of 0, 1 or 2-run games they have?

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 30, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

I’d say a Gentleman C is more like it—a couple overachieving—a few underperforming—most kinda in the middle. Is that right? Seems so.

by windyfelix on Jun 30, 2008 1:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In most schools today

a 10th percentile score gets you a C these days, but, in my opinion, an F is merited here. F means failure to deliver acceptable results.

I really don’t care that much whether we label the offense a C, D or F. I think we all agree that offense is the problem.

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 11:16 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yet, people don't want Bonds.

The single biggest bat out there, available for just money and not prospects.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And not much money either.

I’d read somewhere that his agent was saying he’d play for the pro-rated minimum.

by VORP is too nerdy on Jun 30, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

$200K? I'd be astounded if that were true.

In fact, I’d be surprised at 15X that amount.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was

all over the news last week. And the only way to find out if it’s a bluff is to call it.

"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.

by andeux on Jun 30, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks, man -- interesting ploy I'd tuned-out.

He’s always been so attuned to his market value as a placer of fannies in seats. I do hope it’s somebody else who tests the bluff.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 12:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe that's because we think we're morally superior to other fans

I often think that we A’s (home of McGwire, Canseco, Giambi, Tejada, etc.) fans tend to think we’re better than other fans because our team is the best small market team and doesn’t buy big stars like NY, BOS, LA, etc. (I include myself in the criticism here). So it’s hard for us to reconcile adding Bonds to the lineup with our image of the A’s.

I don’t like Bonds and don’t want him here. Maybe it’s just rationalization, but I don’t want him to take away AB’s from someone with more potential on a team that, while good, should focus on building for the future.

But the team would be better this year with Bonds.

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 1:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay, I can kinda see where you're coming from, but I don't really understand it

Why wasn’t everybody complaining about Emil Brown taking away ABs from the younger guys at the beginning of the season?

If the point isn’t to be competitive and to let the young kids play, fine. Get rid of Brown, call up Buck, and go Buck/CarGo/Sweeney in the OF with Cust as full time DH. Because, you know, Frank Thomas and Mike Sweeney will be taking away ABs from the younger players with more potential as well.

If you just don’t like Bonds, fine. That’s a much more understandable stance, and one that can’t be debated like the “taking time from the kids” point that people try to make.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 2:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish I could be as rational about it as you are

I know the team would be better with Bonds on it, and I admit that if I see Giambi or Tejada these days I remember fondly their days in Oakland and (mostly) wish we had them. I’d like to say that I’m really focused on 2009 / 2010, but at the end of the day it’s probably mostly that I just don’t like Bonds.

I guess I don’t understand myself either :-)

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 3:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is the one thing I don't understand. A lot of you guys would welcome back

Miggy and Giambi, both who are accused of, and Giambi admitted to , the same things Bonds is accused of. That makes no sense.

by theblackpearl on Jun 30, 2008 3:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, to be fair ...

... (and remember, I’m probably the biggest Bonds fan at AN), neither Miggy nor Giambi has been charged with perjury or tax evasion (as a result of a grandstanding, publicity-driven witch hunt of a prosecution).

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bonds has been fairly convicted in the court of popular opinion for being a jerk

Miggy and Giambi haven’t.

Any of them on a bad day is a better hitter than any of the current roster on a good day.

Yet somehow I’d be happy with Miggy or Giambi, not with Bonds.

Hey, I’m not claiming to be rational here!

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, Giambi nobly testified in a vague manner

and then insisted that it didn’t mean what everyone on earth knew it meant.

Good for escaping perjury charges. Not good for scoring integrity points on the PT scale.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When steroids reared their ugly head

Sir Jason turned and bravely fled

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's funny, because I've basically done a complete 180 on the whole Bonds/Roids/PEDs/Whatever issue

The past couple years, I have been ADAMANT that Bonds was a cheater, that his records are tainted, and that he shouldn’t even be in the record books.

I will say, though, that when the Mitchell Report came out, I pretty much stopped making Bonds the uberbadguy that everybody makes him out to be. You know why? Screw it, 80% of players are/were on PEDs of some sort. 100% of players will do something to get “an edge” over the opponent. There are cheaters in the Hall of Fame. There are roiders who are barely on the fringe of being MLB caliber players. I honestly just don’t care about it anymore, because it’s just as likely that a pitcher Bonds/McGwire/Canseco/Giambi/Sosa (to name the big high profile guys) faced was juicing as well.

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 3:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about mediocre minus

"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."

by OptimistPrime on Jun 30, 2008 11:36 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Season Expectations = D, Halfway results = B+

Enjoyment level = A+

I didn’t think I would be having half as much fun watching this team when the season started as I am having right now.

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Jun 30, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup!

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 12:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Double yup!

I enjoy this team as an A+ season, considering I did not expect anything going in.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jun 30, 2008 1:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Triple Yup

Thought we’d be 13 back right now. They’re young and they’re frustrating sometimes, but this was supposed to be a rebuilding year anyhow, and everyone made that abundantly clear from the get. So we’re making the Angels sweat. We’re keeping the wild card honest. We’re right there, halfway through the season. That’s damn fine in my book.

And, like SMASH sez above, they’re A LOT of fun.

Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.

by Leopold Bloom on Jun 30, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Geren on the strikeouts

I am glad Geren said what he said. I have always thought that the A’s have this goofy attitude where they think it is most honorable to have a good eye and never swing at a ball outside the strike zone, instead of realizing that you can “see ball hit ball” even if it is slightly off the plate – and ESPECIALLY if there are runners on and two strikes! It drives me crazy.

by sacto on Jun 30, 2008 12:06 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because the ump seems to be calling them. Noone says go all Bobby Crosby, but the strike zone

the A’s seem to think they know so well, and the umps strike zone, seem to be invariably different, so swing the damn bat, iif it is close.

by theblackpearl on Jun 30, 2008 12:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Assuming that your strike zone and the ump's strike zone

will always match is even dumber, especially in the face of repeated evidence to the contrary. The A’s spend an awful lot of time marching back to the dugout muttering, “Well I know it wasn’t a strike.” Bully for you – you’re still out. There is such a thing as a “borderline pitch” – a pitch that is perfectly likely to be called either way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do you assume that all borderline pitches are worth swinging at?

A low and away fastball right near the outside corner is very hard to hit. If you have a .150 average from swinging, and you’ll draw the walk 50% of the time, it’s a no-brainer to not swing.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 1:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My point is that it is tactically correct to not swing at many borderline pitches,

something that the extreme anti-walk crowd basically never acknowledge.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depends upon your 50% stat

If 50% of umpires will call the pitch, you should know who is behind the plate. If you’re saying it’s a 50-50 call whether the pitch is a strike, you should certainly take 3-0 and certainly swing 0-2. It’s never tactically correct to take a 50-50 pitch you hit .150 on with an 0-2 count.

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

back off that "never"

If the pitch is indeed 50/50, then:
- swinging at the 0-2 borderline pitch gives you an 85% chance of failing (i.e., making an out)
- taking the pitch gives you a 50% chance of failing (and potentially getting a better pitch to hit on the next pitch)

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 1:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not a big difference in BA or SLG with a 1-2 count or even 2-2 vs a 0-2 count

according to this study:

http://ise.tamu.edu/people/faculty/Bickel/Publications/AVG_by_Count.pdf

It doesn’t really get better until 3-2. The chances of getting three straight called balls on borderline pitches can’t be very good.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but we weren't talking about ALL 0-2 pitches, just the borderline ones

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not every pitch you swing at

has to be put in play. You can protect the plate by fouling a pitch off – that doesn’t make sense for someone with Cust’s approach (big swing) but it makes tons of sense for Barton and for most of the A’s hitters, who are not big power hitters.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd think it would make less sense for most A's hitters

No one takes the swings that Cust does, but most of the A’s (at least in theory) exercise terrific plate discipline and swing the bat hard—whether they’re swinging for Moraga, or swinging for line drives.

There are very few A’s batters with the simultaneous bat control and bat speed I’d trust to try to intentionally foul off pitches. And Barton, with his inability to make consistent contact this year, ain’t one of them.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Intentionally fouling off a pitch is really, really hard to do.

If you’re good enough to do that, why not just intentionally get a base hit instead?

by mikev on Jun 30, 2008 2:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If swinging at a borderline 0-2 pitch gets you a 15% chance

of a hit, then taking it gets you a 50% chance at a called strikeout and a 50% chance of being back in almost the same situation you were just in—so about an 8.5% of getting a hit. This suggests it almost never makes sense to take a borderline 0-2 pitch.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 3:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's a reason why people usually use computers to do Markov chains

The math starts becoming very ridiculous very quickly. Pretty soon (believe me, I’ve tried this) you start throwing up your hands and just guessing and using half-assed approximations.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with your conclusion, I think,

but also keep in mind that it’s really much less than a 15%, because that is the chance if you swing and put it in play, but there’s also a pretty high chance that swinging will get you a strikeout, the pitch being borderline and all. Also, if you take the pitch for a ball, you’re in a little better position count-wise, as you say, but you also have the opportunity to possibly get a non-borderline pitch, which is easier to hit.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so you agree, except you don't?

I’d also argue that, hitting a pitch from a major league pitcher being difficult in the extreme, it’s highly important that a batter maintain a disciplined consistency in his approach. Most batters who flail at borderline pitches are doing something they don’t usually do, and that results in even worse contact.

(See Crosby’s bunt attempt.)

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I meant that

numbers-wise, I would guess that swinging at borderline pitches on 0-2 is almost always correct, but that it was nowhere near as clear cut as WC was making it out to be.

And I definitely agree about keeping a consistent approach, so I’m not that bothered by guys taking called third strikes, and I wouldn’t be bothered by Vlad swinging at pitches in the dirt.

Or to put it another way: “Never swinging at offspeed pitches” is a bad strategy generally, but I wouldn’t want Cust to change his approach.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not understanding something
always correct, but [...] nowhere near as clear cut as

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

whoops: didn't mean to elide the "almost"

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

it may not be “always correct” and actually I don’t think “always correct” is a good way to think about it, for the reasons I mentioned elsewhere.

But what I meant was he was using faulty numbers to come to a conclusion that is still probably right if non-faulty numbers are used.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for not letting my faulty

numbers cloud your conclusion. I realized their shortcomings after posting.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 30, 2008 6:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Enter Mr. Markov

to the tune of “Unchained Melody.”

Bottom line—with any given pitch, in any given count/base/out/game situation, there is some “strike probability” at which it becomes correct to swing vis a vis not swing. That probability varies wildly, but for borderline pitches it is usually correct to take the pitch and risk the strikeout, for the simple reason that balls put in play usually become outs.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 2:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In other words....

Protecting the plate is a bad idea. And Dan Johnson was correct in never removing the bat from his shoulders on a two-strike count, and getting called out on strikes time after time after time.

There’s something incredibly counter-intuitive about this argument even if the mathematics does kinda work.

by richwol1 on Jun 30, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dan Johnson is actually a pretty bad example

Ks are not a problem for him; he’s about league average for his career which is good for a (nominal) power hitter, and he gets a lot of BBs while striking out far less than Cust and Swisher.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 6:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as opposed to Cust ...

... who can’t hit outside of fastballs.

(He actually has smashed a couple curves and changeups for singles into RF this year, though.)

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 6:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course it's counterintuitive

That’s why people are constantly griping about it.

Virtually without fail in human endeavor, the “safe” strategy (i.e. the strategy that elicits the fewest complaints) is the intuitive strategy—which frequently bears no relation to the correct strategy.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 6:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Worth noting (responding to everyone):

1. Nico’s point about foul balls. “trying to hit a foul ball” is not a good idea, but if you swing you might foul off the pitch which is a good enough result in these situations.
2. Also, a BB in an average situation is roughly 3 times as good in terms of runs as a K is bad.
3. I don’t think thinking about it in these terms is that productive, as it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you. And I think most hitters should just stick with the approach they have that has gotten them to the majors unless it is failing badly, as seems to be the case with Barton, although he probably needs to regain his old approach more than change anything.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 2:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

Someone needs to use that as a sigline.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK, mine was kind of tired anyways

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 3:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not talking about "trying to hit a foul"

(though I’ve often been known to hit on a fowl) – I’m talking about trying to make contact ,and knowing that your “late protective swing” will likely shoot the pitch foul into the stands, not into left field, which is fine.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I didn't think you were

doesn’t read clearly, but I was agreeing with your point.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 4:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cool - now if you'll excuse me

I have a chicken on which to hit.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here ya go--

If you bust her out of that cage, she might just be “grateful,” if you know what I mean, and I think that you do.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 5:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hunt and peck(er)

A little plumbing! Got to plumb! Plumb the depths! The depths of hell! - Larry David, CYE

by Swooney's Left Foot on Jun 30, 2008 5:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

{Hunt, hunt, hunt}

Pecker!

Found it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 6:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I, apparently, touched off quite the s--tstorm

The problem with the assumptions made by people who think I’m wrong is that the best case scenerio of not swinging at a borderline pitch in an 0-2 count is a 1-2 count.

Since every swing in every count is more likely to lead to an out than not lead to an out, and it is VERY unusual to walk from a 1-2 count, they’ve taken a considerable risk of a terrible outcome to earn the right to probably get out. The next pitch would have to be one with a guarantee that they could hit at least .300 to make it worth the risk, and no pitcher is going to throw a meatball with a 1-2 count.

So sorry guys, but I’m standing firm on this one. Protect the plate and swing at close pitches in an 0-2 count.

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 6:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not that rare for guys like Cust

to walk after getting down in the count 1-2, but for some guys I’d agree.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 7:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That assumes facts not in evidence

I would contend that the umpires call a pitch—lower half on the outside corner—that we would call “borderline” a strike a lot more than 50% of the time. In fact those studies this year suggest that they call a lot of pitches which are 2-3 inches outside a strike. How does the math work?? Obviously on less than a full count it starts to dictate a lot more swings. Maybe 2-2 taking as much as the A’s do could be justified in that it forces a full count follow-up if the pitch is called a ball.

by windyfelix on Jun 30, 2008 1:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have to imagine that the pitch is on the border of the strike zone for that day

not the border of an idealized Platonic strike zone. “Border of the strike zone that’s being called” is what I mean when I say a pitch is borderline.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 2:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My addition to this debate is...

I’ve always thought a lot more guys should choke up with 2 strikes. I would make my players do this if I was a manager.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 2:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but then you'd have all the opposing managers playing the infield in ...

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My surmission is that

there would be a lot more line drives hit.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can think of only one player who always chokes up,

and that player had a very successful career….

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my prediction: in 10 years, Jason Kendall will be working as the booker for Oprah's tv show

Yes, he’ll still be choking up on every pitch.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ooh, there's another,

I had someone else in mind, who’s quite the opposite of Kendall in both production and in your heart.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure...

but that would support my theory, so yes he does!

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ARod chokes

does that count?

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 3:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Polanco also fouls off a lot of

borderline two-strike pitches – which is to say that the “protect the plate” I’m advocating and the “choke up” MikeA is advocating are really different (conceptual vs. visual) of talking about the same idea: take balls, mash strikes, and try to survive the two-strike pitches you can neither hit well nor afford to put into the ump’s hands.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Placido Polanco holds the bat like 3 inches from the knob...

(I think he does it even when there are less than 2 strikes. Of course, that begs the question of why he doesn’t just get a smaller bat.)

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to me, "choking up" differs from "holding the bat high on the handle as a matter of course"

It also implies a radically different change in plate-coverage approach.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and, of course, Jason Kendall is category unto himself

“chokes up as a matter of course”

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 3:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It doesn't differ to me...

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

choking up and using a smaller bat are quite different

choking up shortens the swing. Using a smaller bat increases bat speed, but doesn’t shorten the swing at all. Doing that makes a ton of sense for guys like Polanco who aren’t go to hit many HRs anyway.

Anywho, since no one has guessed, the player I was thinking of is…
Barry Bonds.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're going to have to walk me through this

choking up shortens the swing. Using a smaller bat increases bat speed, but doesn’t shorten the swing at all.

because I don’t understand the physics here at all.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The bat head has a shorter distance to travel

when you choke up, but the same distance to travel with lighter/heavier bats.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't mean a lighter bat

I mean one that is literally shorter, in inches.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, ok

that would be a lot more similar, but still different, and I’m not sure I’m capable of explaining the difference. One thing would be it would have to be a very short and oddly-sized bat to get the same effect. If you’re ever in a bat store, you would notice the difference if you tested it…

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it F=mv2 ?

So that you hit it harder if the v-squared more than makes up for the lower m?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 3:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's exactly it!!!

I think we learned that in Drama class!!!

-Cindi

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Predicition

In the months following the end of the season, when trade rumors are the only “news” item to keep baseball fans reasonably entertained, Joe Blanton’s name will be thrown around in a variety of wild and baseless scenarios. And we’ll get into it, looking for any reason to justify out ridiculous assertions that, yes, Blanton for Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, and some other tosser—let’s call him Pedro Feliz—makes sense for the Phillies.

So, we’ll look at Joe’s stats. We’ll see a sub-par 2008, but nothing that make you stand up and throw your laptop in disgust. We’ll vaguely remember cursing his name, swearing oaths, making insensitive if sometimes humorous remarks about his physique, and generally filling our long, day-to-day in-season lives with ferocious hate.

And in those winter months, we’ll struggle to remember why.

President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium

by Joey C. on Jun 30, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

infield is overrated

They’d be lucky if we took that trade. With a pitcher like Blanton you don’t even NEED infielders (all the balls just politely go over that wall thing)

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

trading Harden and/or Duke won't happen, except maybe during offseason

Yes, Billy has made an art form out of trading his best players for prospects. But he’s not going to do it during the middle of a season during which the A’s are in contention. Are we not acknowledging the A’s status as a contender the same way one doesn’t mention a no-hitter while it’s happening? Billy has said repeatedly that if the A’s are legitimate contenders, he’ll be looking to add via trade, not rebuild.

I understand that these top-players-for-lots-of-minor-leaguers trades have been pretty good for the A’s, but trading Harden or Duke for prospects in the middle of this surprisingly good season would be jumping the shark.

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Jun 30, 2008 1:17 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blanton's spot in the rotation needs to be moved.

Joe Blanton, despite his record has pitched some good outings and deserves a better record. We have Rich Harden pitching like an ace so Geren should swap Blanton’s starts with Harden.

That way Blanton could possibly get some wins to help his morale. Harden pitches well so a win is more likely against the tougher pitching matchups Blanton has to face.

by Coffee13eans on Jun 30, 2008 1:32 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't get this

It’s not like the 1 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2, etc. thing holds up much past the first week or two of the season. Blanton didn’t lose to Lincecum yesterday.

Now, if you’re saying Harden should be getting more starts, I agree. But the matchups are mostly random at this point in the season (up until the All-Star beak, when we get another couple weeks where it matters until it gets all jacked up again).

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 2:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh, no ...

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I realized what I said after I typed it

Getting Harden more starts… I guess I should be happy with the ones he’s making now, right? Let’s not get greedy, after all.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 30, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not where I was going with that

We’ve been having a lively debate on the ace-ace canard in one of the countless Blanton threads.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 2:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lively Debate....

Paul Thomas insults you if you make that argument.

I tried dosing him with his own medicine in a later debate, but apparently he’s immune.

by richwol1 on Jun 30, 2008 5:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's be fair -

he also insults you if you don’t make that argument.

I kid, I kid! Maaaaah.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 6:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What argument?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 6:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beats me.

No wait, that’s my dad.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 6:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I get it now

Nico’s dad is baaaaaaaaad

by nevermoor on Jun 30, 2008 6:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Monkeyball has, happily, taken up the banner

of insulting that idea… thus freeing me up to insult other ideas instead.

Like “Bobby Crosby is good at baseball.”

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 30, 2008 8:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's be realistic

You just can’t trade Blanton right now. Not with his numbers. Nobody will offer more than 50 cents on the dollar. Maybe Blanton didn’t want to be traded, and has been pitching poorly to hurt his trade value. (jk)

Harden has value now. I’ve hear the Cubs would love to have him. But do their prospects still have the value to get it done? Might could get Carrasco, and a couple others from the Phillies.

by sggut95 on Jun 30, 2008 2:43 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I remember when "C" meant average

and “average” meant just as many others above as below.

I guess this makes me an old curmudgeon.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jun 30, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Curmudgeons of the world unite!

I agree . . . but I still give the season an A

It's tough when your kid's favorite ballplayer is David Ortiz

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 30, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not quite that curmudgeonly

I had a professor who said the meaning of grades changed during the Vietnam War when the government had a policy that anyone in college with over a C average didn’t get drafted. Guess what, professors made sure everyone had over a C average.

by vk on Jun 30, 2008 3:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From 1970 forward, they did a birthday lottery iirc, and ended the student deferment.

Tense times in the dorm the night they pulled the numbers. (#262, which I have no doubt is why I’m here)

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when I was in college, my professors made me shave

I got a student defurment.

He's a very personable, sweet, nice chimp. He's not going to be aggressive unless he's provoked. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

iglew, I'm upgrading you

to a “Burmudgeon” – which is still above average, by the way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 30, 2008 4:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah --uphill to school both ways just ain't the same these days ...

... when all the children are above average.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jun 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

....yet with everything changing all around us

Garrison Keilor remains constant in his unfunnyness.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Jun 30, 2008 3:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions