When, How Much To Shuffle Rotations?
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 2:15 PM PDT
170 comments
Pitchers like to stay on routine and managers don't like to overemphasize July series, so you can understand that teams would be reluctant to manipulate their rotations for a pre All-Star Break series. That being said, only the A's stand between the Angels and a sure division crown, and from Oakland's point of view, the best chance to tighten a fairly-tight-but-not-neck-and-neck race comes head to head.
The A's and Angels face off in three-game series June 30th-July 2nd and July 11th-July 13th and here's how it shapes up at the front of each rotation (sorry Joe Blanton, you don't get included here as your ERA is not 2.15 or 1.99). Rich Harden figures to pitch in both series, while Justin Duchscherer will miss the first series but pitch in the second one. Meanwhile, John Lackey is on turn to miss both series.
Would it be worth it to the Angels to fiddle with their rotation just enough to prevent the A's from throwing Harden and Ducscherer three games out of six against six pitchers not named Lackey? For what it's worth, Lackey is pitching Sunday and if he were held back to Monday he would face the A's in one series and if he were held back to Tuesday he would be on turn to start in both series. The move would also be a concession to the A's being a threat, more the kind of fiddling you do when you're 4.5 games out, not 4.5 games up - not to mention in September, not July. Which means the Angels are probably doing the right thing not to disrupt their natural rotation, and also means that I am definitely not complaining.
In other news...How pathetic is the fan who caught Carlos Gonzalez' first major league homerun, was offered three bats and an autographed ball in exchange, and refused, "holding out for more"?
Just curious - what would you do in that situation? I'll tell you what I would do. I would tell the A's they didn't need to give me any bats or balls, but that I just wanted the opportunity to hand the ball over to Carlos Gonzalez myself, to shake his hand and say, "Congratulations, Carlos." That would be a far more meaningful memory than a ball that sits on a shelf or the few dollars it might yield on eBay. Greed is a deadly sin and karma's a bitch, fellow. Enjoy your ball, because it sounds like you don't have any others.
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It all depends on your value system ...
... some people just want to do the right thing and are not in it for the money.
Personally I would want a signed bat and/or ball and a pic of me and Carlos with the inscription “First Home run” and his signature ( or something like that ).
by DaveinRoseville on Jun 27, 2008 2:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd also want a photo
I’ve often thought what I’d do if I got a significant ball hit by a player I like, and the answer always is that I’d want a photo of me handing the ball to the player, and the player signing the photo. I can’t believe that having the ball itself would be of any greater sentimental value many years down the road than having that photo.
by guapobob on Jun 27, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I’d just give the ball. If he wanted to give me something or do something for me great, but something like that is special for him and as far as I’m concerned it’s just his.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Jun 27, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I ever find myself in that situation,
I’m gonna want a road grey jersey of the player who hit it
as well as the handoff with the player, I think that’s cool!
Bob Geren, on 8/2/07, on the success of Alan Embree as new interim closer: "What can I say,... he's been our Steady Tremendous Bullpen Man"
by popcornjames on Jun 27, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I’ve always thought a jersey is a good compromise. Who needs so many bats.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've found these new maple bats splinter on the heads of the punks on my lawn
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
try a firmer grasp
with your back hand and choking up on it an inch or so.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
useful advice for oh so many things
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I laugh so hard sometimes
at the lovely lack of subtly with which you write MB :)
"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."
by OptimistPrime on Jun 27, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy with the ball
wanted two bats and a uniform.
The A’s balked at the uniform. Gosh, almost a hundred bucks!
Reminder that the major league minimum salary is like $2000 a game.
It’s the greed of MLB that has taken honor out of the game.
"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer
by One won lost won on Jun 27, 2008 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don't know what I'd do if I caught the ball ...
... but season tickets would be nice!
Pineapple Poppy Seed
by Ice Cream on Jun 27, 2008 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Who's to say giving the ball up is the right thing to do?
You pay money to see a game, you might get a ball. If the player wants it back, let him buy it back from you. What, too capitalistic? Oh, that’s right, the owners and players run baseball like a natural trust and not a business. Not.
Let me put it this way. If CarGon becomes a superstar and hits 500 HR or makes the HoF, how much is that first ball going to be worth? Enough to send your kids to college? Buy a house? Make a large charitable donation? You’d be crazy to throw that away.
What’s the player going to do with it? Keep it on a mantle and let it rot? Hawk it when he’s 35 and out of work and has blown his fortune?
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jun 27, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd hope I have things like kids' college and house covered with my own work
If charity is my objective, I’d insist Gonzalez make one to my favorite charity. I’m not saying being mercenary all the time is wrong, but I don’t do it and I don’t respect those who do. I’m sure a mercenary isn’t interested in my respect anyway, so everyone’s happy.
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if you won the lottery, would you say, "no thanks?"
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jun 27, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because some people act like classless slugs doesn't mean everyone else should
The first homerun ball is important to players. I’d rather act like a human being than try to soak the organization. Gimme a voucher for a jersey or something, and I’m set. A handshake would be cool, too.
President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium
by Joey C. on Jun 27, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand the argument that says
only classless slugs wouldn’t give the ball back.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jun 27, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Me too also
I might demand to give the ball to the player personally, I might refuse to give up the ball until I was treated respecfully, but I’d give the ball to the player no matter what. And I’d probably, ironically, be offered more than I “hoped for” because the player would likely be inspired to be generous. But in terms of generosity, I prefer to lead rather than only follow. Just my preference.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A jersey
is exactly what he asked for. The A’s were too chintzy to give it to him. I agree with sal. The attempts to vilify this kid are pathetic. Karma is a bitch indeed.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more than a jersey
I heard it was an entire uniform.
I agree with the people that say, honor and the “right thing” doesn’t apply here. He’s not asking for even the salary of ONE PLAYER, at the MLB minimum, who sat on the bench that day. He asked for two bats, a complete uniform,, and some signed-ball-or-other. Maybe total value tops, one-fifth of a day’s pay for a player.
I was with the “honor” guys at first, but I switched to the “mercenaries”. After all, I’d like to get a couple of A’s hats, but if they’re “authentic” MLB hats, they are over $20….for what, so I can advertise for the A;s, FOR FREE???!!
Does their marketing dept work for “free”, or “a couple of bats”.??
"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer
by One won lost won on Jun 27, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Practical question:
How do you, as the fan who catches Carlos Gonzalez’s first home run, go about authenticating the ball without relinquishing it to the team? So, 25 years down the line, when Gonzalez is voted into the Hall of Fame and you want to cash in, how do you prove your ball is the ball?
by 74mk on Jun 27, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ball, the
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's have officials on hand to verify such things.
The ball is vouched for with a special sticker now.
by Rickeyfan on Jun 28, 2008 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding rotation shuffling, I don't think the Angels should or will, because
1) It would give too much importance to two series not at the very end of the season
2) Disruption
3) If Lackey were to lose one or both starts it would be worse than it needs to be
4) Even if they win 5 of 6 they haven’t won anything
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2008 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thought we were talking baseball here
not “fantasy 5 mintues with CarGon.”
Agreed on the not shuffling rotation. I think there is another reason it WONT happen,though these are good reasons they Angels SHOULDNT do it. I don’t think the Angels really fear the A’s. When you look at the two line-ups side by side, the Angels are clearly superior offensively. And while the A’s have had amazing pitching this year, it will take some good luck to keep everyone healthy and performing at this level for the whole season.
Simply put, salary aside, the Angels are a better team. Pains me to say it, and may not be true next year, but it is the Angels division to lose. No need for them to disrupt a thing they are doing.
by Mark Borgschulte on Jun 27, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you look at team offensive stats
instead of the lineups, the Angels are not clearly superior offensively.
by andamac on Jun 28, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd expect a piggy back ride
around the bases…
by Carlos himself…
just so I can shout out “GO CAR GO!”
I was at a football game and during the last bit of halftime… Boston College’s kicker came out to warm up… well the net behind the goal posts wasn’t up so he was kicking balls into the stands of people that weren’t paying any attention…
needless to say it got people quite pissed off…
he was fine with it. til he ran out of balls to kick. then he sent his little lackey out to the stands to get the balls… well that didn’t pan out… so security came through and asked for them stating you’d be arrested for not giving the ball back…
I think if you put the ball in the stands you should be able to keep it… if its a football or baseball… its not like you can just go out and buy these things.
by buddahead9 on Jun 27, 2008 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There are people and things that deserve gouging
Young ballplayers who are excited to have hit their first home run do not fall into this category. IMO. And I don’t expect (nor really desire) anyone to share my personal code of morality. But c’mon. It’s his first homerun in the majors.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The guy in question already addressed the situation over at the Drumbeat
so before people start randomly vilifying him, I would encourage you to read what he wrote.
I’m wholeheartedly in WB Gray’s camp on this one. If the ball is worth more than peanuts, then give someone more than peanuts in exchange for it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Read it
Disagree with it. There’s a big difference among Junior, Manny, and Carlos Gonzalez. For one, I had to check if I was spelling his name correct, not something that’s much of a problem for the “Madonna’s of Baseball” he’s linked to in this piece. It’s a cleverly constructed argument, but it fails to hold water. For me.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The relevant comment
Since I had to look to find it.
OK, so here’s the other side of the story, the guy that caught the ball was a friend of mine. He had every intention of giving back, what he wanted was 2 bats and a jersey. The team would not give him a jersey, can the A’s really not afford to give up 1 measly jersey? He said the A’s clubhouse manager was extremely rude, and even used foul language, so he declined their offer offer of just 2 bats and moved on.
I think that’s a very fair request. Real jerseys are cool, but it’s not at all like asking for huge amounts of money. I think the A’s really should have gotten the kid his jersey instead of treating him poorly.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You keep saying that.
But I’m hankering for an actual rationale. Those guys are wealthier and more famous than Carlos Gonzalez. Got it.
I take it that means that if I catch Manny’s 600th homer, it’s ethically appropriate for me to auction it off. Because … I don’t know. He’s rich? The ball is worth a lot? I need the money?
Is there is a particular player salary threshold beyond which it’s okay to play keep away with home run balls? If so, what is it? A million dollars a year? Six?
Drawing on sal’s example above, what if I was in possession of Griffey’s first home run ball, but he wanted it back? Should I give it to him or sell it? If it’s okay for me to sell it now, why would it have been morally repugnant for me to sell it when I caught it back in 1989?
Or maybe the “mercenary” route is never okay? First homer or five hundredth, you always gotta give it up. Do the right thing. In which case there sure is a lot of immoral sh*t floating around the memorabilia marketplace.
I think this is largely a matter of presentation. We tend to get queasy when faced with such a stark microcosm of transactional ethics, preferring instead to live every second of our lives awash in those ethics while never quite acknowledging their core ugliness.
Oh no! we say, when we see the nasty man demand a steep price from the talented nice-looking youngster. But you know, when buyers and sellers collide, the result is quite often not as fuzzy and happy and everybody group hug as we’d like (a reality that will likely become evident when the A’s move into their shiny new ballpark). And this is a clear cut buyer/seller situation. The guy wants a bunch of stuff, maybe he’s a cad to boot, the A’s won’t meet his price, Carlos doesn’t get his ball, nobody dies, and life flipping goes on.
by 74mk on Jun 27, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said
For me. That’s the appropriate answer. My morality is what it is, and I neither expect (or really want) you to “follow my example,” nor do I have to defend it. In this particular instance, it’s not okay for the man to demand monetary compensation. In my opinion.
To your note, though, I’d say there’s a lot of immoral sh*t floating around everywhere. And I quite agree with your proposition that capitalism, at its core, is very ugly. I’d go further than that, though. Again, my value system, not yours.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. That’s kind of weird, offering an opinion then refusing to defend it.
2. Re-reading my post, it was a bit asshole-ish. Sorry for that.
3. I am actually curious as to your rationale.
4. What I was trying (perhaps feebly) to get at above: This sort of circumstance is inevitably met with cries of disgust and disdain, but I think those reactions are (just as inevitably) illogical and intellectually inconsistent.
5. I really, really, really don’t need ethics lectures from Ray Fosse.
by 74mk on Jun 27, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"So 74mk, how much does it stink
to actually immorally and how much do you think you need to act morally because it feels better when you do?”
“Well, Ray, um…”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray, I just try to be 100% moral every second, work on my morality in the film room, you know, watch tape between at-bats, make sure I’m not pivoting on my morals when I should be planting, walk old ladies across the street, don’t lie to my mom, stuff like that. I’m just really glad to be here, it’s a thrill, and not only is unassailable morality a small price to pay, it’s easily gauged. Black and white. Not really up for interpretation. Which is why I revel in my sanctimony. You know what I mean, right? F*ing goats? Immoral. Rooting for the Angels? Really immoral. Demanding an arm and a leg for a kid’s first home run ball? Like, super duper over the top pagan sinner crazy immoral.
by 74mk on Jun 27, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
[registers joshhamiltonhatesyou.blogspot.com]
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
{registers firejoshhamiltonsagentt.com}
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But even if I was capable of
“defeating” your position ala logic, what good would that do? Would you change your opinion? Would I? And would it truly mean that my points were more valid than your points or would it just prove that I was more skilled at that particular moment in time at manipulating the truth to fit my point of view? Would it truly change anyone’s opinion on this particular issue?
We all have internal barometers about right and wrong. Now some may argue that it’s external constraints that enforce and reinforce the morality we have. I disagree. All of my morality is internally-based.
But, since I truly believe in Dewey and Freire, and it is kind of a jerky thing to offer an opinion and then refuse to defend it (though I DESPISE that kind of terminology and am an even more skeptic of any kind of social advancement through critique—my thoughts and feeling about things are not castles to be stormed, overtaken by force, nor are yours), I will offer the internal process of where my morality is on the subject.
Carlos Gonzalez has played his whole life, played this game. He has reached a level where he’s good enough to actually get paid to do it. Regardless of how much money he gets paid, when he succeeds, he takes pride in that, as I do when I do well (as I assume we all do, though I’m open to this being a different experience for others)—vocation or avocation. The ball is a symbol of the struggle he’s had to become successful in his field and his achievement thereof. It means little to anyone, other than him. As a curio piece, A’s Fan #1 has the autographed ball or the autographed bat or maybe he can just relate the story to others, about how cool it was. The piece of the Berlin Wall that I got after it came down was not significant, other than as a curiosity. It’s the story and the experience of having lived through that, having seen that happen, that’s important. Not the detritus. That stuff gets gathered up and hauled off after we’re gone. The experiences, I’m not so sure about.
But like I said, that’s just me. That’s my morality and where I’m coming from.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
internal ... barometers?
Does that mean that Poppy and I are relativists, who only act morally when the marine layer rolls in?
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Now I disagree with you way more than before.
But I’ll let it go. This is kind of a stupid dispute anyway, and I feel like it’s siphoning precious site energy from the emerging PT-patriotism brouhaha in the other thread.
And you have to endure the mucky splatter of awfulness that is Florida. You don’t need condescending rants from me adding to your troubles.
by 74mk on Jun 27, 2008 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would not be alone in condescending,
I’m sure. Those who have been forged by fire can see no other path. Maslow’s hammer. I’m just as guilty. We all have are preferences. And we can agree to disagree. No shame in that.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to have sputtered out
Probably just as well; it was verging into CGV territory as it was.
I’m satisfied, as I got to name-drop Samuel Johnson.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name dropper!
You should be ashamed of yourself. That reminds me of a story I heard Zizek tell one time…
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 28, 2008 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
there are probably about 80-90% worse people to take a morality lecture from than Ray Fosse, including myself.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I had CarGon's HR ball
I’d make him come to AN day as a guest speaker
by asfansince1989 on Jun 27, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Seconded
Although I can never go as an out-of-town resident
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do they not have planes where you live?
Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think the Angels will change any thing up with their roation
if they were 4.5 back of us then maybe or if it was later in the year then yeah maybe not not right now.
by A'sfaninNC on Jun 27, 2008 3:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to take Schilling's retirement take on this
As MLB players, these guys are already lucky enough. The sports doesn’t owe them anything. The fans sure don’t. Players don’t need trophies or any memorabilia. Every day that they are playing should be enough reminder of their luck.
by asfansince1989 on Jun 27, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
of course Re: CarGon's HR ball and not the rotation shift
I think it’s too early to start shifting rotations for one or two series. It’s still only June. Used to be that no scoreboard is allowed before Aug.
by asfansince1989 on Jun 27, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A fan has every right, and probably some obligation, to ransom the ball
... but that doesn’t mitigate the douchebagginess of doing it.
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 3:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ransom =/= asking for a jersey
Heck, I’d want a jersey too. A’s jerseys are sweet.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that I've seen the (purported) actual asking price, I agree
Sal’s approach is douchebaggery, though.
What’s more, if people start doing that, the clubs will be entirely within their rights to make admission conditional on fans agreeing to return all balls leaving the field of play.
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they change that rule, fine
Then the next one isn’t the fan’s ball. (and, of course, we get to argue ourselves blue in the face about the decision). It’s what they do in the NFL
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally, I've been called a douchebag!
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jun 27, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't call *you* stupid, I called what you *said* stupid :P
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Your ideas are douchebags!!!"
Doesn’t trip off the tongue quite so elegantly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying this for years...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sal makes it sound like this is the culmination of a life's work
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, the erasure of the imaginary line between critique and "personal insult"?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of which
I wonder if Nico checked whether the person in question had an AN account before posting his little screed. Because the last couple of sentences sure as hell sound like a personal attack to me.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any reason he should have checked first
How would he know, anyway? How many users do we have?
If the guy IS here, then by all means he can speak up.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know I'm not really upset, right?
Established rapport and all that rot.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jun 27, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations
You’re now in an exclusive club with Garret Anderson, Rich Harden, and 98% of people who have ever posted on the internet.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
finally, a place to put all those periods!
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said it in other fanposts, I'll say it here.
Should the guy that caught #756 have just given it back to Bonds?
Being greedy is one thing, but once that ball is in the stands it belongs to whoever caught it.
Personally, I’d have asked for a jersey and a picture/handshake. I’d actually be able to use the jersey, and have little to do with a couple of autographed bats.
by mikev on Jun 27, 2008 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Not only can you wear a jersey, but as with a photo, you’d have a great story to go along with it); I don’t know what I’d do with the bats other than sell them on ebay. It’s kind of ironic that people are calling this guy :”mercenary” for preferring the former.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
once that ball is in the stands ...
... it belongs to whomever is designated as owner by whomever prints the tickets.
Seriously: you think if enough fans start ransoming HR balls, ownership won’t simply make relinquishment of balls leaving the field of play a condition of using your ticket?
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter to me whose ball
it technically is. My feeling (and I know it’s not shared by all) is that the following credo should guide a fan on this: Just because you can take advantage of someone doesn’t mean that you have to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's right
But then the question is what’s “taking advantage.” Certainly the fan making the gesture shouldn’t feel taken advantage of himself.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the fan's main error was
in dealing with a “middleman”. Why not tell the A’s, “It’s between me and the player – bring me to him anytime and we’ll work it out.” If Carlos won’t meet, or the A’s won’t make that happen, then too bad, so sad for Carlos. Chances are it would have worked out better for both guys if the A’s brass had gotten out of the way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the A's
aren’t hamhanded enough to try that. And that’s saying something.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig sure is
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
That’s one of those things that would get the antitrust exemption looked at.
Basically, on any league-wide issue, the fans have a lot of leverage over MLB (through Congress) as long as baseball enjoys the antitrust exemption.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Congress will do a thing ...
... unless and until Selig personally yanks a foul ball out of Arlen Specter’s hands …
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the NRA newly empowered by the Supremes
he’d better not yank it out of his cold dead hands…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God the Supreme Court had the good sense
to realize that in order for the U.S. to maintain a good militia. they need to allow me to have a concealed weapon in my house.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just in case
any Ballas or Vagos show up.
(San Andreas jives with my morality—so there)
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ball won't belong to whoever catches it
if teams start putting something like “All balls hit into the stands remain the property of the team of the player who hits the ball. Removing game balls from the ballpark without permission is theft” into their terms and conditions.
Which is always an option if teams just get tired of greedy fans. They’d still be free to let people keep less-important balls, but wouldn’t have to barter over the ones players would like to keep.
by andamac on Jun 28, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need for LA to shuffle their rotation...
I don’t see the need for the Angels to shuffle their starting pitching when they have a 4.5 game lead and have wins from Santana (1ER), Saunders (0ER) & Garland (2 ER).
Only Garland has had a bad outing against us this year (6 IP, 7 ER), but that was before his 7 IP, 2 ER victory.
Blanton, Eveland & Smith (twice) have taken losses. Duke, Ziegler & Guadin (pre bullpen) have wins.
Lackey has historically dominated us, yes, and he does have a 7 IP, 1 ER victory this year, but the rest of their starting staff has done well against us, unfortunately. There is no need on their part to shake up the starting rotation to guarantee Lackey two starts.
I hope that need arises, though, Sept. 16-18 and we our the ones with a 4.5 game lead!
—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—--
Regarding the fan not giving up CarGon’s home run ball, I agree with Nico, I would have asked to merely shake his hand and personally give him the ball. The ball means a lot more to Carlos than it ever could to any of us.
by BillMoresi on Jun 27, 2008 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with asking for a signed jersey
or something similar. He’s not asking for a lifetime supply of season tix is he?
I think the A’s are being cheap if they don’t want to give it to him. Remember, this is about the fan and the A’s, not the fan and CarGon. A handshake is nice, but what is it really costing the A’s to give up a jersey? If they don’t give him the jersey I think the A’s are deserving of the “Mom and Pop” insult they received from one of their players. The A’s are run like a business and try to squeeze every dollar out of you, no? Are the games free all of a sudden? No. But now this fan is greedy? Please.
by oaktownmario on Jun 27, 2008 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
20 bucks to park, 8 dollar beers and 5 buck nacho’s after you blow a small fortune to get a ticket to the game.. Im sure when Carlos buys a home in the Oakland Hills and puts custom rims on his Bentley that he will be worried about some scrub fan that sits in the bleachers. Bottom line is that these guys play for themselves first, not for any of us die hard A’s fans. They play to buy mansions and live the good life first and foremost, if they were honest they would all say that want to be the superstars and be Multi Millionaires. Steroids are a great example, you would only ruin your mind, body and soul if big money was involved. These guys wouldnt risk their lives with roids to play in a beer league would they? When was the last time a player took alot less money for the love of the game, city or fans? We are all dreaming if you think most these guys dont see us all as a means to an end.
by asfaninpismobeach on Jun 27, 2008 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just playing MLB baseball is a longshot...
There are so few “Mannie’s”, “Griffy’s,” etc. that I don’t think it’s worth the effort of holding on to the ball “just in case.” I don’t blame the fan for negotiating, but he should negotiate based on the current value of the ball….not speculation. It’s irrelevant how much the players make. Face it, most of these guys have played a lot more games for free than they have for money. And there was never a guarantee that they would make any money.
The balls primary value is sentimental….and specific to the player who hit it out. Holding him ransom is a tad unseemly. I’d want all the signed memorabilia they offered, but I’d hold out for a little extra. Since I go to games with my family, I’d probably put the A’s themselves on the spot and ask for primo tickets to an Angels series along with all I could eat. Basically, I would extract whatever is realistic to extract from the organization….but even if they were obstinate I would give Carlos his ball. Then all I would ask him is that if he ever hits the free agency money boat he remember me and sponsor me to the aforementioned series. The rest is on him.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 27, 2008 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So if you made a reasonable counter offer and they swore at you in response you'd smile and cave?
(and note your idea of a reasonable counter offer is more than what the actual guy made)
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, the A's were rude to that fan,
Carlos wasn’t. Why not insist only on handing the ball directly to Carlos, and then tell Carlos how things went sour only because this employee was really rude to you, and all you really hoped for was a jersey because it would be so cool to have a jersey from the guy whose first HR you caught and gave to him.
My guess: Carlos sees to it that the fan gets as much, or more, than he was looking for. Then follow up to the hilt with the rude employee’s supervisor, even threatening to expose the employee and the organization with a tell-all fanpost on AN if they don’t make good. And watch them literally shake in fear!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then why not do that now to get the ball
My guess is if he gives Carlos the ball, Carlos tells someone about the fan’s complaint and the fan gets nothing but an apology e-mail “from” someone important.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a matter of "caving".
I would have already made up my mind that Carlos was going to get his ball. But what the hell, it’s worth taking a shot at getting a few free games at a substantial FSU.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 27, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the jersey dispute
The guy who caught the ball, tomsnyder (search on that name), explained his position on the Drumbeat—basically, he’s been waiting his whole life for a jersey, and the A’s wouldn’t give it to him. (The A’s position is that they never give jerseys except to charity at the end of the season). It would be nice if someone could get the guy a jersey and then he’d return the ball.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=27509#comments
by vk on Jun 27, 2008 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I disagree
The fan should have given the ball to Car Go period. That ball is totally worthless to everyone but Car Go. Any milestone HR balls are marked for authentication. You could buy a ball and put on EBAY and say its Car Go’s homerun ball and hope some sap bites. For me, as an A’s fan, I would have accepted the deal and wanted a photograph. Because the memory of that moment is priceless.
by equation9 on Jun 27, 2008 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not as priceless as the actual guy's memory
Oh and also, here’s how it works: They take me down to a backroom by myself without letting my brother or friend come. They put all the pressure on me and try to have three people talk one person into giving up the ball. Why couldn’t my brother come down with me? Because they know the game they’re playing. It’s called how low can you go. Well i’m not stupid. And i have nothing against Gonzalez, but i just want a fair exchange. A jersey and two bats. It’s not like i’m asking for $1,000
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So all you have to say is,
“Sorry, unless my brother gets to come along with me, I’m not going.” He has the leverage to get treated the way he feels he should get treated. It may be greedy to want this many bats or a jersey instead of a bat, or whatever, but it’s not greedy to want to be treated with respect. That he could hold out for and I have no problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
update
While I recognize this is now “old news,” I wanted to take this opportunity to comment on last week’s story about Carlos Gonzalez’s first Major League home run and the fan that caught the baseball. As the A’s Public Relations Director, I am privy to what actually happened that night at the Coliseum. According to our Equipment Manager, Steve Vucinich, the fan and his friend were escorted to the A’s clubhouse entrance, baseball in hand. He was told at the beginning that the A’s (as almost ALL other teams) do not exchange jerseys in this situation. He agreed to two autographed bats from Carlos and one from Kurt Suzuki. We also agreed that the fan could meet Carlos should we win. He was told to return after the game by himself as the clubhouse is quite congested in a high traffic area with players, staff and media during the post-game—and hopefully the exchange agreement would be finalized. After the game, he returned and agreed to exchange the ball for two autographed bats from Mr. Gonzalez and another signed bat by Kurt Suzuki. However, soon after he agreed, he changed his mind and asked for more player items (Carlos’ glove and jersey). While we felt he reneged on the agreement, "Vuc" decided to break a precedence that dates back to the Canseco/McGwire/Henderson/Giambi days of never giving away player jerseys. We agreed to substitute a Gonzalez jersey for him. Clearly, the fan showed no respect or appreciation for our generous offer of an autographed jersey in exchange for Carlos’ first-ever Major League home run ball. In fact, he called the A’s cheap. At that point, Mr. Vucinich decided it best to stop negotiations for the ball. Sadly, neither the fan nor Carlos is better off with the result. However, it became clear that this particular gentleman had unrealistic expectations. According to several witnesses at the clubhouse, he agreed twice to deals and then kept asking for more items. I offer these comments, not to criticize a valued paying customer, but merely to set the record straight and hopefully defend our staff and also A’s broadcaster Ray Fosse, who were unfairly criticized. Lost in all this is the fact that Carlos Gonzalez made personal history last Friday night, and in the process, thrilled many loyal A’s fans in attendance.
Best Regards,
Bob Rose
Posted By: BobRose | June 27 2008 at 04:02 PM
by equation9 on Jun 27, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If all true, it certainly sheds a new perspective on the situation
I’m not going to sit here and pretend that the team would come out and say “Yeah, we handled it poorly” but if the guy kept trying to ask for more and more, I’d have told him “Fine, keep it” too.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you so much, equation9, for posting -
It’s great just to get an “inside” perspective, and I’m honored to know that AN has enough widespread readership that when a situation like this is discussed, there is often someone reading who can step forward and add a “truth” to which we don’t have access.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, as a counselor who does a fair amount
of “conflict resolution” I know that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of two accounts. I imagine that the fan behaved roughly in the manner you describe and that, either out of frustration or perhaps an a-holier-than-thou personality, someone on the A’s staff did not do himself, or the A’s, any honor with how he spoke to the fan. And the one who loses most is the one person who did something right and nothing wrong: Carlos Gonzalez.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the truth was usually somewhere in the middle of two hooved animals
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the tooth
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiosity
What’s the context? Where was this posted?
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one main place:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=27509#comments
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That comment
is cut and pasted from sfgate. I don’t think it’s Bob Rose posting here.
"May a nit suck Cajun geese?" wonders Red. No, we see gnu Jack Cust in a yam.
by andeux on Jun 27, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How disappointing -
And “Rose” is such an honorable baseball name.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet it is
You could have bowled me over
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious as to the rational
behind never exchanging player jerseys? What’s the reasoning behind this stance? It would seem a small matter to me. Nonetheless, I’m very happy to see the A’s position and their side of the story presented on this forum. Perhaps after a cooling off period the fan in question and Mr. Gonzalez can reach an equitable solution.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 27, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it seems to me
that if they do it at the end of the season, could they not just hold on for the guy until that time.
Admittedly, I don’t think anyone would be happy with that decision, and it sounds like it wouldn’t have mettered in the end. But it seems they could have kept the “policy” and still worked something out.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Jun 27, 2008 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw the story about the Gonzalez homer and think it's selfish
I hear he wanted a jersey on top of whatever they were offering and while I’d be happy with what I could get, it’s not like he was asking for season tickets or anything like that. Jerseys aren’t hard to replace.
I can actually speak on the thrill of catching someone’s first MLB home run because I’ve done it. About a decade ago Deivi Cruz hit his first in Oakland and I caught it.
As soon as I found out about it, which was a couple minutes before security came for me, I’d already decided he’d be getting the ball one way or another. As special as it was to me, it was more special to the guy that hit it.
They took me down to the spot near the edge of the dugout next to the player walkway and I crouched by the railing and gave the ball to Phil Nevin. He gave me a ball Cruz signed on the sweet spot and explained Cruz’s English wasn’t very good yet. Then he asked me if I wanted anything else and since Tony Clark was the big star for the Tigers at the time I asked if I could have one of his bats.
Nevin explained Clark was low on bats with only a limited supply brought on the roadtrip, so he gave me one of his instead and that was it. I left pleased, knowing Cruz would be going home with his ball and I was just happy to have something to take home myself.
I still have the ball, of course.
So yeah, in the end I don’t really care if the dude wanted a jersey bad enough to refuse to give up the ball. It’s his right, but I think it’s more important that Gonzalez is able to get the ball. To Gonzalez’s credit, he said the right things publicly.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Very cool story
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!
by TurnTwo on Jun 27, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but still ...
Mr. Rose, it’s not right for your announcers to go off on the fans who can’t defend themselves on the air.
by vk on Jun 27, 2008 4:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If I had caught Patrol Craft's HR ball, I would have held it hostage until the A's gave up ...
FREE KRAUT FOR EVERYONE!!!
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
THAT
is a different demand, and perhaps one I could get behind. Seriously, no kraut?! What the hell do you put on your Saag’s hot links?
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you offering to stand behind me with your naked hot link?
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
{shudder} That's a link I won't click on
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, since there's no kraut
what the hell else am I supposed to do with it?
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
{continues waiting for someone to make an Esteban German joke}
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What they need to do is have mayo packets available
I need that stuff on my hot dogs and hamburgers.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally Disgusting
I am reading responses by a selfish group of people. Are you A’s fans or a bunch of moneygrubbers? Carlos just hit his first HR and I doubt that he was thinking about retrieving the ball. Steve Vukinich realized that this could be a momentous occasion and did his best. If you were watching the game on TV, you could see his reaction was one of elation. As far as Vuk being rude, I very seriously doubt it. According to Glen Kuiper, he was standing by the A’s dugout on Saturday and the kid was trying to hold the A’s for ransom. I personally believe what Bob Rose said than a punk kid!
by bamaA'sfan on Jun 27, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
Point me to the reference (from anyone, including Bob Rose) saying the kid wanted money. He just wanted A’s stuff.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, if Bob Rose is correct, kept increasing his demands as the A's met them.
More than anything else, that is something I have a major problem with.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it worked well for Hitler
Oops, I just Godwinned this thread.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I svear
I vill stop wit POLAND!
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Here is a list of the items I will NOT be demanding from the A's:
A job as bullpen catcher
A strategically positioned naked Saag’s hot link
The Sudetenland
A vial of infield dirt
Lenny DiNardo
...”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you're in a hostage situation
you have to always ask for one crazy thing. That way, if you’re caught, you can plead insanity and the jury can’t convict you.
“I want a million dollars, a getaway car, and the letter “M” stricken from the English language.”
(scoffs)...getaway car…
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I LOVE THAT BIT!
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As do I
my simian friend, as do I…
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my friends and for years would just walk up to each other ...
... shake our heads, and mutter “Getaway car … “
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My brother and me
still do, in between sign orders and debates over the A’s.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good god PT
You’re on a nazi tear today.
Bob Rose was specifically talking about items, though, so “moneygrubber” and “ransom” seem extremely hyperbolic.
by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A nazi tear?
I didn’t know they ever shed any.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico or MB-- howsabout deleting the comment below?
After all, the website is not multispecieslove.com.
I do hates me some spammers.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 27, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico just banned 'em
I think the comment is in process of being deleted
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I already did, my sight-impaired friend
Wait, there’s a website called multipspecieslove.com?
BRB…
Oh, baby!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naaah -- it's "Oh, you kid!"
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 27, 2008 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for keeping me abreast.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not two? I like mine in pairs.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are welcome. Udderly.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 27, 2008 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money?
Where did I mention money? Holding them for ransom implies exorbitant demands. Your question validates my reference to moneygrubbers!
by bamaA'sfan on Jun 27, 2008 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well....
Enjoy your ball, because it sounds like you don’t have any others.
You take a eunuch stand on that.
alaska A
by ak_A on Jun 27, 2008 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It happened to me
I was in the right field bleachers on a freezing cold april night in milwaukee – brewers v orioles, mid ‘70s i guess. Reggie jackson – did you know this? – had a brief interlude w the o’s between oakland and the yankees. He had a slow start that year, but he broke the hell out of this game by hitting a grand slam, which i caught. Of course reggie was playing right at the time, so he wandered on out to the fence and started shooting the shit with us. He offered to hook me up with some schwag if i came by the clubhouse after the game, but – you know, it was cold, and i didn’t really know where the clubhouse was, and when was i gonna ever catch another reggie jackson hr ball? So, i took it home where it rattled around my dresser for many years. I think that in the fullness of time my kids ended up working it into their rotation where i trust it went to baseball valhalla by way of orme creek….
"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin
by Hot Cup Joe on Jun 27, 2008 5:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Harden strained shoulder?
I heard a rumor (xtra innings strike zone channel, Chris Myers ) Rich Harden strained his shoulder turning off an alarm clock. MLB.com has to be announced for the Tuesday A’s starter. Knowing Harden it’s true? Anybody out there hear the same thing?
by KCB58 on Jun 27, 2008 5:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He did that a few years ago
Perhaps you read it in “Day Old News” or “Behind The Times”?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rationales? We don' need no steenkin' rationales!
But I’ll take a shot.
It’s a “values” conflict. There are some folks who get a bigger kick out of “doing the right thing,” as they define it, than they do out of maximizing the monetary potential of a situation—in this case, a happy accident . Under their values system, they get more from the interaction, memory and sense of “having done it right” as they define it, than they do out of a jersey and three bats. Call it “psychic income” if you must. They’re simply maximizing their outcome, using a different counting system. We in the States seem to want to monetize everything, but there are different ways to organize the world.
Those folks do risk being called chumps by their more lucre-driven counterparts. This approach does suggest that they ought to tolerate those whose value system runs predominantly to the dollars-and-cents outcomes—and just shrug and marvel at the human folly of everybody getting less than they wanted out of this situation, but it’s a bit too late for that, Ray.
And now, I shall take this rare t-bone steak of a comment and toss it to the assembled carnivorage.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 27, 2008 5:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my list of things I would demand....
A job as bullpen catcher
A strategically positioned naked Saag’s hot link
The Sudetenland
A vial of infield dirt
Lenny DiNardo
oh, and a chance to meet PaulThomas
"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."
by OptimistPrime on Jun 27, 2008 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm going to AN Day...
at least the tailgate segment of it…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and here I am
stuck in hell Florida. Nice cool 88 degrees here today, with a humidity of 72%. Shoot, I’m wearing socks.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 27, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you'll be charging for autographs.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 27, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, let me ask you
If my first ever autograph blew away in the wind, and you caught it, what would you demand from me in exchange?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point has to do with the monetization of everything, but I'll play anyway.
Howsabout: a moment of silence?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 28, 2008 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Post on Drumbeat
hank you, Mr. Rose and Mr. Kershner for posting on this topic. It is good to see some transparency in the A’s organization and that the Drumbeat blog is making a clear argument "against the man" per se and standing up for the fan.
However, Mr. Rose, your comments towards the person who caught the ball are highly unnecessary. If you are indeed the A’s PR Director, then you should know how to best publicly respond to situations. You say the fan had "unrealistic expectations," but you did not explain what his final expectations were. In your response, Mr. Rose, you say that Mr. Vucinich offered a jersey, breaking an old precedent. However, the fan has stated that the A’s refused to offer a jersey. I of course have no way of knowing who is correct or if a jersey was actually offered. The fan has stated that he wanted one jersey and two bats. Was this offered? If it was and the fan said no, then I agree, you have full reason to come onto a blog and make such statements against as you say "a valued paying customer." If of course this offer was never made, then we have a serious problem.
All things aside, though, Mr. Rose, is it really appropriate to make a post like that? Your comments, along with Mr. Fosse’s comments, show a pattern of ill-will and rancor emanating from the A’s front office. This is a loyal fan, who has paid to come to watch our beloved A’s play. This season, the A’s inability to draw fans to the Coliseum has been well documented; do you really think sending out such a message will serve to help A’s relations with the public? It does not matter if the fan was offered "fair" compensation or if he was being impolite and greedy. Your message has now been read by hundreds if not thousands of people and immediately gives us a sour taste of the A’s organization. There are all sorts of reasons why the fan should give the ball to Carlos; it may morally be the "right thing" and "for the good of the game." That is purely between Carlos and the fan. You, Mr. Rose, have only cleared up one thing; you have showed to me and the rest of us that the fan’s assertion that he was "muscled" by the A’s during his attempted dealings were likely correct. You also allowed your television color commentator to say very scathing things towards the fan on live TV. Are the A’s trying to use scare tactics such as potential defamation in case a situation like this happens again. Let’s say I catch the next rookie call-up’s first homerun. If I simply want to keep it because I like to collect souvenir baseballs mean that I will be attacked on television? I am sure both sides contributed to this problem, but as a multi-million dollar organization that is hurting for fans to come and watch their product, I have to question your reasoning in posting this.
I hope that more media networks pick up on this story and are able to dig in and find the truth.
Thanks
Posted By: AsFan4Life | June 27 2008 at 05:54 PM
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by ryder1650 on Jun 27, 2008 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice post
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2008 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 27, 2008 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kuiper
Glen stated on tv that the fan was standing down next to the A’s dugout before Saturday’s game trying to get more stuff from the A’s. As I stated before, Steve Vukinich is someone I believe more than some punk kid trying to extort the A’s. Bob Rose’s post was made by a mature adult who was party to this fiasco. Fosse stated his opinion of this situation, it was his and his only. It is irrational to impugn Bob Rose and tha A’s FO. Please provide information as to the validity of this scumbag being a “loyal fan”.
by bamaA'sfan on Jun 27, 2008 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was he attending the A's game?
Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cargo's Ball ... and McGuire's ...
I definitely would have been an easy trade for Cargo.
Having said that, remember that idiot who gave McGuire, what was it?, his 62nd home run ball – for nothing but a smile and a handshake. That was insane then, when the ball would have fetched close to $1 million (which was of course a mere fraction of McGuire’s salary, had he wanted it …) and with the benefit of hindsight looks even stupider.
by solotar on Jun 28, 2008 12:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have to do this every time someone gets it wrong, but...
...it’s McGwire and it amazes me how anyone, especially an A’s fan, can get that wrong.
And why call the guy who gave the ball back an idiot? Maybe he felt better about doing it this way instead of keeping it for personal gain. That may have cost him certain big bucks, but that’s not necessarily stupid.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 28, 2008 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My position changes in this case.
Like I said, I’d negotiate on the current value of the ball. And that particular ball had a lot more value. I could care less what Sportscenter and the rest of the nation thought of me. That ball would have meant a college education for my kids, a mortage free home, etc. My first obligation would have been to do right by my own. Everyone else can think whatever they damn well like.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 28, 2008 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No bats or jerseys required.
I would have gladly given up the ball in exchange for permission to sit in the TV booth during tomorrow’s game and whack Ray on the hand with a hammer every time he says the word, “great.”
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Jun 28, 2008 1:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"So Monday Fan,
how great does OUCH!! I mean how fantastic is it to be sitting here in the booth?”
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Jun 30, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos got his 1st career Homerun ball
From tomsnyder’s post on sfgate: I gave it to him man to man in the parking lot without dealing with the A’s poor negotiators. The smile on Carlos’ face when he got his ball back was heart touching. Giving him the ball one on one was so much easier then how things went the previous week. As far as what i got for the ball goes, that would be between Carlos and myself. He’s a good guy and i believe he may give me a jersey that i desire somewhere down the road in his career.
by sgd on Jun 28, 2008 3:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
( the defense rests )
Was Black Snake Moan a comedy or a drama?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2008 9:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Bob Rose
similar at all to Bob Ross?
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 28, 2008 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All you haters that don't know me or disagree with me
I gave Carlos his Ball. There was no fued between Carlos and myself. Just the A’s Organiztion and me. I’ve been coming to the games since 1997. All the money, time and effort i’ve put into being an A’s fan. I can’t get a little back after all i’ve put in???
Well guess what, i planned on catching Carlos’ first homerun. In fact my brother and a friend of mine had all lined up in different locations in the bleachers in hopes of getting that ball. We made a deal before hand that if any of us got the ball that we would take care of the other guy. I wanted a bat for my friend and brother, and a jersey for myself. That was all. I never kept demanding more. I also wanted to talk to Carlos myself, and when the A’s only let me talk to him in front of other people including Steve V it got out of control. Once i asked Carlos myself for a jersey Steve started to flip out like some crazy man. Steve was rude to me and even used the F word twice during the negotiating. Steve kept trying to offer me lower than what i wanted and all i kept saying was i had to get 2 bats for my brother and friend and i wanted a jersey for me. The furthest he would budge was a jersey and 1 bat. Well sorry but i made a deal with my friends, and one thing i don’t do is break a deal. When i said once more that i wanted a jersey and two bats Steve said “well then if that’s how you want to be then we really don’t want that ball” Guess what jackass, you really do otherwise we wouldn’t have been negotiating.
As far as Bob Rose goes, this guy wasn’t there for the negotiating so how the hell is he going to try to defend a situation he was not a part of. Bob Rose is a moron and a liar, or at least he is misinformed.
Glen Kuiper- you must not have heard correctly, i never once asked for more stuff from Carlos the next day. All i said was the same exchange i wanted the previous night. “A jersey and 2 bats” that is what i asked Carlos, i never asked him for more than that. So Glen go play patty cake with Fosse.
Fosse- You have a lot of nerve talking to someone you know nothing about. I’m an above average fan seeing as i go to more games than just firework nights and battle of the bay series. I go to my 25-30 games a year, and enough of the security and ushers there know me well enough to say the type of fan i am. Fosse at one point i thought was Pete Rose did to you was wrong, but now i see that Pete Rose is the guy who gives people who talk smack the business.
And the Carlos Ball- Since Carlos now has it, everyone get off my back about saying i’m not a fan. I have and always will be. I’m just a pissed off fan with how this organization is run. And don’t tell me none of you other fans are pissed off too. I mean the team is planning to move to fremont right? Doesn’t that piss you off? Well they’re doing it for the money issues. Just like with the ball i got. They wanted to be stingy with their equiptment/ try to save a couple bucks, and wouldn’t make a deal with me.
Thanks for reading -Tom Snyder
by TR3S on Jun 29, 2008 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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