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I Live in a Green and Gold Submarine

I'm not talking about the Beatles song, folks.  I'm talking about the A's tendency to love players like Chad Bradford and now, AN's guest writer extraordinaire Brad Ziegler.

I love these guys because they're walking changeups.  They're something that most batters don't know how to approach because most overhand or even 3/4 arm slot pitchers are coming at them from a consistent release point.  The A's obviously feel the same way because they actively solicited Ziggy to make the switch in the minors as many of you already know.

It isn't just that these pitchers come with such a different look than most hitters are used to, it's that these guys are often extreme ground ball pitchers.   Mike Myers was a lefty version of Chad Bradford, only he didn't really drop down as much as Bradford or even Ziegler.  Myers had quite a few years where his ground ball/fly ball ratio was 2:1 or higher, but he also had a few years that were lower than that.  That doesn't necessarily mean that his best ERA would correspond directly to that high GO/AO ratio because his best season he was over 3 in GO/AO and his ERA was up over four.

Ziggy has started off really well, obviously.  He's got a ridiculous 4.50 GO/AO ratio.  That's insane and yes, it's definitely a small sample size so it probably won't continue at that rate.  Hell the best season that Chad Bradford had in terms of ground balls to fly balls was 2001 with the A's and that was 4.57.  But it's a remarkable weapon to have coming out of the pen and I would imagine, hopefully, the thing that keeps Ziggy with the team. 

As for me, I've always loved watching those guys.  When Mike Myers was a free agent a couple of seasons ago, I'd hoped that the A's would sign him because he's so tough on lefties.  There's just something about having a pitcher who not only isn't likely to give up a multi-run home run, but is often likely to induce a ground ball and an opportunity for the A's outstanding infield defense to turn a double play.  It is also interested to me that, from my really poor memory, I can't really remember a starting pitcher throwing that way.  I wonder if we'll see someone like that.  I know that it would be a deterrent that usually the splits for pitchers like this are pretty extreme.  Who knows, maybe there's already been a starting pitcher like that that I can't think of.  I'm sure someone here will remind me.

Any way, I'm glad that the A's continue to value this kind of pitcher and the value that they bring to a roster.  Chad Bradford was always one of the my faves coming out of the pen and Ziggy appears to be picking up right where he left off.

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justin masterson

is a rookie starting pitcher for the Red Sox who throws pretty close to sidearm. He definitely doesn’t qualify as a submariner, but he’s the starting pitcher that came to my mind.

ok, here’s a video I found link. Watching this, it’s clear that his delivery is definitely overhand, not sidearm. I guess he just keeps his elbow really low or something?

by colin on Jun 25, 2008 1:05 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

leach

there was a guy in the 80s that started for the Mets that was a submariner… i forget his first name… last name Leach

The Not-So-Casual Fan

by rktse on Jun 25, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Terry Leach

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 25, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two knuckledraggers

We had Bradford from the right side and Mike Venafro from the left. It was hilarious to wach them warm up together. Bradforford was on the 3rd base side and Venafro by the stands. I always wanted to see that Jerk, Brad Fischer get mixed up and switch them.

by bamaA'sfan on Jun 25, 2008 3:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The A's bullpen could actually use Jay Marshall as a LOOGY right now

That way Geren wouldn’t have an aneurysm every time he has to decide how to use Embree.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that's what Geren tries to do

But a LOOGY is a great option against a lefty with a huge split, and there are lots of those guys around. I generally don’t like 7-man bullpens, but if you’re gonna have one you may as well let that 7th guy be a specialist and not a guy who never gets to play.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In my tour of some minor league parks last month...

...I noticed there are a few more sidearmers/submariners out there. I love taking shots of them because of the fact they’re just not all that common.

Salt Lake (Angels) has Matt Wilhite, who is pretty much standard sidearm:

Rancho Cucamonga (Angels) has Aaron Cook, also fairly standard:

Lancaster (Red Sox) has Josh Papelbon, who is more like Bradford than Ziegler:

And of course, here’s our Ziggy:

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Papelbon looks like he might catch dirt from time to time

Which I find incredibly cool for whatever reason.

Love the photos.

by nevermoor on Jun 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks

And I bet he does once in a while. You can really tell from this side:

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

These are awesome

Thanks for sharing. There’s something so fascinating about them. It’s like see a unicorn. Only the unicorn doesn’t do anything cool but sit there with a horn in the middle of its head.

by Blez on Jun 25, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*grins*

With you writing about them like this, I figured these would be worth putting up. Any time.

And sometimes the unicorn stands there with Neil Patrick Harris on its back.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 25, 2008 3:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, I don't think a human arm is supposed to bend like that

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 25, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is he related to Jonathan?

Papelbon is not exactly a common name.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 25, 2008 3:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not too hard out here

After all, we have the California League (ten teams), two Pacific Coast League teams with a third coming to Reno soon, and there’s even a few Golden Baseball League teams.

I also do work for Scout.com so that makes going to different places more fun when I can get field access.

Of course, you guys have the Carolina League.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jun 25, 2008 7:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BK Kim

Was/Is he a side-arming Starting Pitcher? Either way, his career was/is a very Bizarre one.

by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2008 3:06 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Knuckledraggers 2

It is more common in the Far East to see sidearmers but submariners are rare.

by bamaA'sfan on Jun 25, 2008 3:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reminds me of one of my fave pitchers growing up...

RIP Quiz. He had a 4 year stretch where he finished 2nd twice and 3rd twice in the Cy Young voting.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 25, 2008 3:58 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kent Tekulve

Rocked the submarine and the dark goggles. Geek chic!

Coolest. T-shirt. Ever.

Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 25, 2008 4:53 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Rik Ocasek had pitched for the Pirates...

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 25, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Randy Johnson, Bruce Kison, and David Cone threw sidearm a lot

Eckersley too I think. Walter Johnson was said to be a sidearmer.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 25, 2008 4:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the early days

When the A’s first arrived from KC, their resident sidearmer was Ed Sprague Sr.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Jun 26, 2008 12:02 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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