Trading Post
by Zonis on Jun 24, 2008 6:05 PM PDT
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PrintAs we all know, the A's are in a parculiar position. They are 5.0 games behind the Angels in the West and 3.0 Games behind Tampa bay in the Wild Card, with the Angels looking for an easy win today (8-2 right now against the Nats). The A's are 41-34 with a .547 Win %, yet a 44-31 Pythag Record based on Run Differential.
This year was supposed t be a rebuilding year, yet the A's find themselves within striking distance, at least for the Wild Card. The rotation has been very strong, but the offense has been a dissapointment. The Rookies have not hit, the Veterans have struggled, and the good hitters have hit the DL.
But the A's could contend. The question is how many more bats are they away from having a chance to win every game, and not alternate shutouts and blowouts? Frank Thomas should be back in July, Ryan Sweeney has come out and started to hit and could take over CF with Cust staying in Left Field, which means that a Corner Outfield spot could be open if Patrol Craft was sent down. Daric Barton's struggles at first base could mean we could demote him back to AAA and acquire a slugging 1B. There is always the possibility that we could replace Mark Ellis with a better hitting 2B such as Polanco or Roberts, but suffer defensivly. Bobby Crosby could be replaced, though it does not appear there are any decent SS's available to my knowledge.
So we could go out and grab a good hitting 1B and RF, and instantly the lineup would improve and could even become quite a good one. But to acquire those guys would require dealing prospects, and we just dealt Dan Haren and Nick Swisher to get those prospects in order to rebuild.
On the flip side of the coin, the A's pitching performances could net the the team a bounty in prospects in the coming month till the trading deadline. Justin Duchscherer and Rich Harden are both healthy and dominant, with a year left on their contacts. Joe Blanton is struggling, and we'd have to hope he would have a great month, get his ERA under 4.00 and up his value. Eveland and Smith might even be prime candidates to deal if the A's believe that this is their peak value they'll have, and we always have a replacement starter in Chad Gaudin to step in if one is dealt.
But our AAA options are limited, with Gio Gonzalez struggling a lot, and our best pitching prospects in Double A or lower, with no signs of being MLB Ready any time soon. Simmons is coming off injury, Cahill and Anderson were just promoted and Henry Rodriguez failed in his first try in Midland.
But, if this is a rebuilding year, and we are firm with that and recognize it for what it was, with so many teams desperate for pitching, it is time time to strike. So what can we get for our starters and relievers, of which we have so many stockpiled?
As for offensive trade targets, there are several out there;
OF Jason Bay PIT (my pick)
OF Matt Holliday COL
1B Mark Teixiera ATL (very expensive pickup, most likely)
1B/OF Adam Dunn CIN (An expensive Jack Cust)
1B Aubrey Huff BAL
?? Matt LaPorta MIL
OF Xavier Nady PIT
Who else is out there?
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Comments
Talking about trading for a 2B is a little ridiculous in my opinion..
MaEl plays top notch defense and his OPS+ is 117 so far this year. Placido’s is 111 and Roberts’ is 125, so a downgrade certainly doesn’t make sense and the minor upgrade that Roberts brings isn’t worth trading for in my opinion.
Shipping Blanton off for Corey Hart would make me happier than anything that I could possibly think of though, but I really don’t see that move going through.
The only 2B that makes sense to me is Kelly Johnson
He’s 26, so he’d be a long-term answer. He already hits somewhat better than Ellis, but of course is worse defensively.
The Braves need pitching, so if we deal to them I’d want to get Kelly
Hmmm...
I think this is going to be a tough call, but in the end, I don’t think any moves will be made. On one hand:
- The A’s most definitely need another bat to contend THIS season.
- The A’s seemingly have the depth at both the major league level & the minor league level to acquire a bat.
- The A’s could theoretically demote their struggling rookies to make room for a vet bat.
And yet, to counter those three points:
- The A’s need to give their young hitters every chance to self-correct against MLB-competition in order to ensure that they will be competitive NEXT season.
- The A’s could welcome Frank Thomas back well before the trade deadline, who seems like he’d probably have the biggest impact of any bat that would be available and he comes free!
- The A’s could even theoretically get Mike Sweeney back for the September stretch run to help give the team a boost and keep them in the race till the end.
- It’s almost a necessity that every major league team (especially the fragile A’s) keep 6 starters on the roster throughout the year, so I don’t really see any margin to trade off our “surplus” of starting pitchers any time soon.
- The depth of the farm system is nice, but remember that the A’s have lost a highly-rated prospect to injury already this season (De Los Santos) and with many other injury risks in the system and many of the top prospects in various stages of development, the depth of the overall system is deceiving.
So, to all of this, I say that Beane and Company will wait for Frank to get back in the lineup, see if Blanton can bounce back in the 2nd half to establish some trade value for the off-season and generally roll with the rookies and limit the innings Duke and Harden throw to keep them healthy for next season.
But, just to add to the trade wave because it’s fun and the Phillies are in town, what about Jayson Werth? Nice corner outfield bat and the Phils are certainly desperate for a solid starter. How about Gaudin and Embree for Werth/Josh Outman/Jason Donald/Julian Sampson? Little help for now (Werth) little help for next year (Outman) little help for the shortstop position (Donald) and high-upside talent for the future (Sampson)?
I like this deal...
from both sides. I’ve been pitching a Blanton/Gaudin/etc for Werth and prospects for months now, but nobody in Philly seems to know who Joe Blanton or Chad Gaudin are. Along with a SP, the Phillies have been actively looking for another left handed reliever to for the bullpen, and if the A’s throw in Embree they in a deal for Werth, they may 1) Be able to get better prospects in the deal and 2) Be able to get rid of Emil Brown as the Phillies would need another RH OF bat to replace Werth.
SP’s Carlos Carrasco and Josh Outman along with CF Greg Golson are usually the most talked about prospects in the Phillies system, and I’m not sure they’d deal any one of them unless its for a top flight starter. Jason Donald has pop for the SS position, he actually hit 3 HR’s in one spring training game, but I’m not sure what his long term prospectus is…
Trying to balance my biases here… but I think it makes sense for both teams.
A's Fan in Philly
thank you for concluding
this conversation before it started. As long as the A’s are stuck between rebuilding and contending, it doesn’t make sense to make a trade, as it will commit us to one path or the other. If we are firmly in or out of contention before the deadline, I would expect to see a deal made. But we don’t really have any impact players in the last year of their contracts, so why not let the team play it out? Despite some ANer’s deep and abiding love of MaE, I cannot imagine us getting much for his services as a rental player.
Most likely trade: some combo of Blanton, Harden, Ellis, Brown for a bunch of guys you’ve never heard of, but are basically major league ready in a system that has no room for them. If we trade a SP, we have to get back someone to plug into the rotation, or at least someone to be the #6. I will refuse to attend any game started by Dallas Braden, and he seems like #7 right now.
by Mark Borgschulte on Jun 25, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
werth
i’m not sure i’d like that trade for the a’s
werth is injury prone and his stats are a little overinflated this year. he is pretty much just playing against LHP for the phils. Is there much difference between him and Emil Brown?
Some
Not a lot.
I wasn’t a fan of that trade suggestion either; I really don’t like the guys in the Phillies farm system.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
If Dunn's BA were and would
stay about 55-65 point higher it might be a better idea but no. Teixiera would be great but all of last years deals would probally be for nothing to get him but if we did and could resign him long term that would be my pick. Again if the Braves didnt want the farm then I would talk. BTW he has now hit 4 homers in 3 games. Holliday away from Coors field worries me, and other than Bay (would help but would he alone be enough) IDK enough about them.
Ugh, Batting Average really doesn't matter that much in comparison to everything else Dunn does.
He is a better and more proven version of Jack Cust that could instantly help this team if Beene were willing to eat that 11 mil per year that he comes with.. And his career batting average is around 30 points higher than current, which is likely due to the ridiculously unlucky .241 BABIP that has befallen him this year.
If Dunn's BA were 55 points higher,
he would be a fucking first-ballot Hall of Famer. I can think of one .300 hitting, consistent 40 HR power player in baseball today, and the Cardinals aren’t trading him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
My comment was more about this year alone
If Dunn was batting say .276-.286 this year getting him would help some of the hitting and lack of power that the A’s have endured this year. If his career numbers were that high theres no way the reds would be in the market to think about moving him unless he was 1-2 years away from retirement or being so expensive that they couldnt resign him. But as it is do we need another questionable defensive OF that would need to play in the field once Thomas and Sweeney are able to go. But if he would/could not totally suck a 1B then having him there would be better than Barton IMO.
He would totally suck as a first baseman
and the A’s could just sign Bonds for less money and without giving up prospects.
So on those grounds, I’m not in favor of acquiring Dunn.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Thats the other thing
Giving up prospects for Dunn just doesnt sit well for me unless he was a huge upgrade at 1B. If it was like the Thomas deal or a FA thing then maybe but to come into an already crowded OF I would pass
Crowded OF?
Dunn would immediately be our BEST OF. There’s always room at the top.
I’m not saying he’s worth what he costs (since I don’t know what the Reds want in trade) but it doesn’t make sense to say there isn’t room for him when there’s room for Brown/Davis.
If they could be traded for him then yeah but a bunch of prospects is not ok
also getting Dunn would mean taking time away from the young Pups in the OF which i thought was the reason they were up and playing now. But i could see CarGon off the bench and Cust, Sweeny and Dunn in the OF. Doesnt wow me defensively but then again the thought process is to help the offense
"Doesn't wow me defensively"?
Boy, there’s the understatement of the last half century. Dunn is arguably worse than either Bonds or Cust defensively. That’s saying a lot.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
In terms of production Teixeira
and Dunn are very similar players. Offensively, their overall production is similar. Teixeira is a good defender at 1st, while Dunn is poor in the OF. However Dunn is an OF.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
As to who else is out there
Corey Hart, if the Brewers decide to sell. He’d be a long term answer so part of the rebuilding rather than unrebuilding.
My pick is Bay too if he’s out there and affordable.
As it now stands...
Brewers may be the favorites for the WC—Mets in disarray; NL West a huge bust; really only the Cardinals stand in their way and if Sheets stays healthy I think The Crew takes out St. Looey. So forget Corey Hart
by madmongoose on Jun 25, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I suppose.
Pujols should be back soon, they aren’t catching the Cubs. I predict they finish third in their division (but if they decide not to sell we certainly aren’t getting him, so it doesn’t matter what I predict only what the Brewers management thinks)
I am 100% in favor of adding a good hitter ASAP
The team needs to be concerned about the interest of all the players not just the rookies. This team can contend with another hitter. Someone who can play a corner OF spot and 1B. Thus, the A’s could still play Barton and C.Gonzalez every other day or so.
Bay would be fantastic.
Why does every trade post conversation have Ellis in it?
When a team is built around pitching and defense why would you ever take your best defensive player out? Especially when you’re not to expect that position (2B) to be a run producer.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
because he's in the last year of his contract, and is on the bad side of 30
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
Ellis:
2nd best fielding player relative to position in all of baseball last season, losing by 1/10 of a run to Pedro Feliz.
10th best player in the entire AL.
This year he’s playing the same defense and hitting better. There’s no way you trade Ellis unless you’re outright punting the season. Losing him would be substantially more damaging than any single other player on the roster. Yes, that’s including Rich Harden.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Jack Hannahan was the second best fielding 3B in the league, NOT adjusted for his partial season. While it is certainly a compelling ranking when one reads bottom-up (apparently Kendall sucked worse than I thought- didn’t think that was possible), I have difficulty believing this ranking system says much among the top players. The incredibly large runs saved number on Elly is a clue- he may be an outlier in terms of defensive competency, but not this much of one.
One thing is sure: Mark Ellis is not the problem on this current team. (But can you imagine the outrage among the fans of a team that traded a young prospect for rent-a-Elly?) Plus, seems like he is going to give us a big discount on the re-sign. Might as well hang on to him.
However, I do not agree that he is worth more than, or even close to, Rich Harden. Your man-crush is getting a little out of hand, PT. Besides, even if you take your stat seriously, isn’t (a healthy) Harden worth more in ERA vs replacement player than Ellis, over the season? 36.7 v ((5.5-3)/9)*180= 50, assuming 180 innings pitched, replacement player at 5.50 ERA, and Harden’s at 3.00. Am I not understand the stat you are pointing to?
by Mark Borgschulte on Jun 25, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently not
because a “runs saved” stat is pretty clearly going to adjust for a player’s playing time. If you save 1 run every 90 innings, you’ll get a lot more runs saved over 900 innings than 180.
That 36.7 is runs above AVERAGE, not runs above replacement. You can basically add another 20 to everyone’s numbers to get RAR, which would peg Ellis at higher than Harden. But more importantly—while I’ll stipulate that Harden would be worth more than Ellis if he was guaranteed to be healthy for a full season (I don’t really think Ellis is 10 RAA as a hitter), that’s a ludicrous thing to just assume. Ellis is quite sturdy, and Harden is insanely injury prone.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
All true.
But Brian Roberts is not a better 2b. Roberts career OPS+ is 103. Mark Ellis, 102. OPS+ underrates Roberts due to SBs. So, EQA, Ellis 263, Roberts 270. Roberts, from 2005-2008, by Batting Runs above average, is 69 runs above average, Ellis 22. Roughly speaking, Roberts is about 12-15 runs better than Ellis offensively. Defensively, Ellis is regularly rated as the best 2b in MLB, 20-25 runs above average. Roberts? He was marginally above average in 2007. This season, both zone rating and RZR have him as among the worst 2b in the AL and MLB. Let’s assume somewhat charitably that he is about average. So, offensively, he’s about 12-15 runs better than Ellis. Defensively he’s about 20 runs worse. In the end, he’s not better than Ellis.
Polanco? By Batting Runs above average, he is 21 runs above average from 2005-2008. Ellis is 22.
Defensively, Polanco is better than Roberts, pretty decent, but he’s no Ellis. 5-10 runs above average. Polanco is not better than Ellis.
Ellis is 31. Roberts is 30, Polanco 32. Replacing Ellis with either of Roberts or Polanco is not going to make the age issue go away. Roberts is indeed under contract for one more season, at $8M. Polanco is also signed for one more season, at $4.6M. Polanco’s deal is great, Roberts’ decent.
Purely in terms of performance, the only 2b who is clearly better than Ellis, is Chase Utley. Anyone else, even if better, is only very marginally better.
Including age and contract, neither Roberts nor Polanco are better. Agewise, both are similar to Ellis. Polanco has a great one year deal. Roberts an OK one. Including the cost in terms of trade chips necessary to acquire them, Roberts is certainly a worse package overall. Polanco MIGHT be a wash.
A younger guy, under control for a longer duration, like Kelly Johnson, Brandon Phillips, or Robinson Cano, yes, I know Cano is struggling this season, might be a different proposition, sure.
Neither Roberts nor Polanco are better, even with a somewhat charitable assessment of their performances, even including age and contract.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I didn't look up their defensive stats...
and, maybe, they’re much worse than Ellis in that regard, but I’m not sure I agree with your statement:
Purely in terms of performance, the only 2b who is clearly better than Ellis, is Chase Utley. Anyone else, even if better, is only very marginally better.
I wouldn’t mind having the offensive numbers of these guys:
Dan Uggla .290/.376/.634 23 HR
Ian Kinsler .303/.360/.500 12 HR
Like I said, I don’t know how many runs better Ellis is defensively, but he’s gotta be lots of runs worse offensively (at least, in Uggla’s case).
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 25, 2008 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Uggla is pretty poor defensively
Last year, he was around 10 runs below average, using an average of RZR and zone rating. Ellis, around 20 runs above average. UZR had him as the 2nd worst 2b in the the NL, at 17 runs below average. Ellis, as the best 2b in MLB, 25 runs above average. If you ask any fan of any NL East team, they’re going to tell you that he looks pretty bad defensively.
This year, small sample size warning, blah blah blah, Ellis is among the best, as usual in RZR and zone rating. Uggla among the bottom. UZR to date has Ellis at 28 runs above average per 150 games. Uggla 14 runs below average.
Kinsler is not as bad as Uggla, he was around 5 runs above average in 2007. This year, like Uggla, he’s among the bottom 2b in RZR and zone rating. UZR has him at 15 runs below average per 150 games.
It’s reasonably safe to say that Ellis is probably 30-35 runs better than Uggla defensively, and 20 runs better than Kinsler defensively.
Kinsler plays in a notorious hitter’s park, Ellis in notorious pitcher’s park. But let’s disregard park effects for the moment. Ellis line’ is 261 .349 .432. Over a full season, Kinsler is around 15-20 runs better than Ellis offensively. Add defense, and it is a wash.
If Uggla keeps up his current performance, he’s roughly 45-50 runs better than Ellis offensively. So, yes, I concede that Uggla is clearly better than Ellis. It slipped my mind how well he’s hitting, to tell the truth.
BUT, how confident are you that Uggla is going to keep this up? His career OPS is in the majors is 848. Season by season, from his 1st season, 819, 805, 1010. His Home run per flyball rate: 13.9%, 13.5%, 23.9%. It is certainly possible that he has very quickly turned himself into an elite level 1b / dh type slugger, with elite level 1h / dh type power. I’d really like to see him do this over a full season before I agree with that conclusion though.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Both are younger, though ...
so they’d be even or slightly better now and with the team for several more years … (3 arbi years for Uggla, 4 years/$20m for Kinsler with a team option on a 5th)
It’s hard to imagine either being moved, though—since Florida is contending and Kinsler is signed long term.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Well sure.
Like I said based entirely on performance, Ellis is essentially as good as any other 2b other than Utley. If Uggla can keep up his current level, or something reasonably close to it, then add him too.
If you want to add age and contract, yes, like I said, not counting Utley of course, there are other 2b I would probably take over Ellis: Cano, Phillips, Uggla, Johnson.
While I’m wary of looking at home road splits, Kinsler has a pretty severe split: tOPS+ of 125 in Texas, 76 elsewhere, meaning his park adjusted home OPS is about 25 percent better than his overall park adjusted OPS.. i don’t think it likely matters much, but given that he’s not better than some other 2b who are similar in terms of age, there are better choices.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
No more lefties please!
Just stick with the rebuilding for this season and then during the off season trade some pitching for some RIGHT handed bats! I’m not interested in seeing JBay another LH and I believe a free agent after the season so why give up our prospects for drafting and signing draft choices.
If we do not sign Inoa we should use that money to sign some of the tough signs that we drafted this month.
Wait...
So you want more Righties, but don’t want Jason Bay because he’s right handed?
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
qotm
"It's not my fault your team's so shitty." -Steve Friend, head coach, Chabot College, to Laney College's head coach, who asked why we scored so many runs after we beat Laney 30-3 in 2006
Isn't anyone else
really really scared that both the rookies haven’t thrown more then 160 or some odd number of innings, and both duke and harden are seriously injury prone (no jinx, no jinx). I really believe we are kinda playing with smoke and mirrors right now. My hope is the A’s play well but not well enough to make to make the playoff(and billy knows this) and billy trades both duke and harden for some good talent and the A’s rid themselves of some injury prone players. I just think the stars lining up for this season is like catching lighting in a bottle. I just think we need to continue to rebuild. Sorry….Am I the only one that thinks that?
ohio roots
yes
"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."
by OptimistPrime on Jun 24, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
So
Just give up, then? Not yet. This team is 42-34. Unless someone calls w/ a RIDICULOUS offer for Harden, Duke, or Blanton, you gotta ride them until the offseason. If you start losing ground in September, rest Harden/Duke/Blanton. Who knows? Maybe Blanton will clear waivers in Aug/Sept, Ng will become the new Seattle GM, and the Dodgers will finally send us LaRoche. I mean, come on already.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 24, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you
I think my +1 comment came up following the wrong reply. Sorry about that. Go A’s in 2008!
I'm
not saying giving up, hell no, i still hope we win it. I’m saying i basically believe we fade some at the end of the year and probably miss the playoffs. i just think there are better teams out there this year and i don’t think, although they are quite impressive right now, are good enough long term this year. but that still doesn’t mean i’m not enjoying the ride this year, i just have my doubts.
ohio roots
I don't believe that theory
The Angels are very, very solid. Their pitching will always keep them in games. And they always find a way to score 2-5 runs.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Other Teams Better than the A's
Here’s the thing, only the Angels, Red Sox, and Rays are better than the A’s. The A’s have the 2nd best Pitching in that group. At least that’s what my eyes tell me.
Now, I wouldn’t mind trading 3-4 Solid Prospect to Pittsburgh for Jason Bay.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2008 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Bay is much better than Swisher
Swisher was an interesting and popular player but he is not at Bay’s level at all.
Can we limit the hyperbole here a little?
Bay is better than Swisher. A lot better? No. Enough better to make up for having him through 2009 instead of 2012? No.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I totally disagree.
Bay this year: .286/.394/.531. Swisher this year: .237/.351/.389. But Swisher is having an uncharacteristically bad year.
Bay career OPS: .894
Swisher career OPS: .813
Prefer fancier stats?
Bay career WARP1 (season adjusted): 30.8
Swisher career WARP1: 18.5
But Swisher has a shorter career, and WARP1 is a counting stat.
Bay’s best WARP1 is 9.9. Swisher’s is 6.9
The only thing Swisher has going for him is that he’s two years younger.
You're completely excluding defense
Swisher is a good RF, Bay is an indifferent (at best) LF.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Really?
Just looking generally at RZR, zone rating, and UZR, the only season where Bay rates as beloe average, 5-10 runs below, was in 2007 when he was reportedly dealing with injuries. In other seasons, he’s average, maybe marginally above average.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Swisher can also play CF in a pinch.
He’s not particularly good there, but he can do it.
I’m not saying that Swisher is better, but given the two of them as their age, contract status, and performance compare TODAY, it’s a lot closer than people make it out to be.
Yes, I know Swisher can play CF
Actually, before I looked at Bay’s D numbers, I was basically ready to jump on nevermoor. I typed out Swisher’s D numbers in CF and all that, ready to post.
I’m just pointing out that by the numbers, Bay is actually ok / decent defensively, as opposed to being your typical slugging LF type.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
A's Lineup
If the A’s traded Ellis, that would pretty much be it for me. I like Billy Beane, and I’m a loyal A’s fan, but at the end of the day I don’t automatically root for every Jose Guillen and Emil Brown who puts on the uniform and is willing to take 8 pitches a game. I actually get, you know, emotionally invested in a very short list of guys (starting with Huddy and Miggy, and then Byrnesie and Scutaro and Ellis), and uninvested in some guys, too (like Chavvy and Zito…) and getting rid of every last one of the man-crush guys just leaves me a little cold.
But quite apart from that saber-blasphemy, the complication with the A’s is that on offense they have had the same problem for the past several years: a lot of guys who hit about .260 over the course of the season, but seem to struggle especially against above average pitching. As such and with the obvious exception of Kendall last year it seems like it’s hard to confidently conclude “well this guy sucks, let’s try to improve here.” There seem to be few guys who are so bad they have obviously played themselves out of a job, but there just aren’t enough guys hitting .290 to put the A’s over the top against above average ball clubs.
If I were the A’s I’d hold the current hand for a while. If they get 8 or 9 out, sure, trade Blanton (though I’m a much bigger Blanton fan than most on AN) and maybe Duke, too, and stock up. But I’m not really fired up about blowing every good player off this team so that they are loaded when they move to Fremont and I can’t go see them play anyway.
I'm w/ keeping Ellis
An Ellis extension has to be near, doesn’t it? But to say that “that would pretty much be it for me.” Yeah, right. :)
by Colorado Fan on Jun 24, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends entirely on what Ellis wants
A huge extension (in terms of $$ or years) might be it for me the other way. Dude is already 31 after all.
Pure speculation, but if his last three years went 06:$2.25M, 07:$3.5M, 08:$5M he’s going to want more than a 3 year/ $15M contract.
Add a couple million to this years salary
+3 Years
+Club Option
Heck, we gave Alan Embree a 2+ year deal. Beane signed Loaiza to a 3+ year deal (dumb). Ellis is a young 31 – IMO.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2008 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Good response Solotar
I agree, think that when Frank comes back and the A’s start their annual second half tear, that we will be ok. I have a feeling we will see someone the likes of Gaudin and ? traded for a stick. Who knows with Billy though, right? Could wake up tomorrow and see Harden gone for a stick and prospects.
"I'm seeing more and more Paul-baiting these days."
Sit tight, hope that Solomon Torres continues to struggle, then trade Huston Street
and some change to the Brewers for LaPorta and call it a day.
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
we could, but would the brewers? lol
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jun 24, 2008 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
lol!
Why are we laughing?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The fuck?
“and some change”?
I’m hoping this is some bizarre syntax and you’re actually implying the Brewers are giving change to Oakland.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
clearly you value street more than i do
in that case, i hope the rest of the league shares your sentiment
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jun 24, 2008 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
More than "part of the value of a good AA hitting prospect with no position"?
Um, yes. As a matter of fact.
Just as a straight up swap, you have to believe that LaPorta will be 30 runs above DH replacement level with the bat each season for it to be an EVEN (not favorable, even) trade.
Are you willing to bet an elite relief pitcher on the notion that Matt LaPorta will consistently produce above an .875 OPS at the major league level? I’m not.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He's more than a good prospect
BA rated Laporta as the 23rd best prospect entering 2008. Goldstein at BP rated him 31st.
So far this year, he’s hit .295/.410/.600 in AA, which likely makes him a top 15 prospect. That seems like a nice haul for a closer, especially given what Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Brad Lidge, Valverde, and others brought back in trades.
Where do you get this 30 run minimum?
The calculations can be found
here.
I’ve never even heard of Mike Gonzalez. Rafael Soriano was traded by a known imbecile for far less than he was worth. The other two are both substantially older than Street and substantially closer to free agency.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Mike Gonzalez
good young lefty reliever who the Pirates traded to Atlanta for Adam LaRoche during the 2006-07 offseason. He underwent Tommy John surgery last year, and has just been activated by the Braves.
Mike Gonzalez was killing it in Pittsburgh but couldn’t stay healthy (topped out at 54 ip).
He was traded to Atlanta with Brent Lillibridge for Adam LaRoche, who was coming off a big year, was young and cheap along with Jamie Romak, a (fairly high) C level prospect.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Let's use PECOTA to assess Street
since you mention PECOTA in your link.
PECOTA projects that Street has 17.5 and 21.3 VORP over the next 2 years, a total of 38.8 VORP. Let’s say that the “change” that is thrownin , plus the value that Street provides, bumps up the value of the entire package to 60 VORP. LaPorta would have then have to provide 60 VORP of value over the 6 years of MLB control. 10 VORP a year. What is a 10 VORP DH? In 2007, Aubrey Huff, of the Orioles, had 15.8 VORP, his OPS+ was 103 in 603 PA. Billy Butler had 11.6 VORP, his OPS+ was 105, in 360 PA.
Let’s look at 2006. Jay Gibbons had a VORP of 11.8, Shea Hillenbrand 11.4. Gibbons had a 106 OPS+ in 378 PA, Hillenbrand a 110 OPS+ in 319 PA with the BJs.
So, LaPorta needs to be essentially a 100-110 OPS+, a Russ Branyan type, for the 6 years of control for him to be worth Huston Street. That is if we use PECOTA’s projections for Street, which in your opinion, rate him highly.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
That assumes that LaPorta is replacing a replacement level outfielder or DH
which he isn’t. The A’s have a lot of outfield candidates around already. (Although to be fair, they also have a lot of bullpen guys. It’s hard to evaluate what the impact on the pen would be of moving everyone else up a spot. The guy who replaced Street would basically be replacement level, but obviously he wouldn’t be pitching the same innings.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Couple problems...
First, Street’s innings are highly leveraged, so any decline in performance in those innings will cost more than the typical run.
Second, VORP is more valuable as it’s more highly concentrated. Three years of 20 VORP is more helpful to a team than 6 years of 10 VORP (or 10 years of 6 VORP).
Sure
So what do you project Street’s VORP over the next 2 years to be? Or if you don’t want to use VORP, what do you project Street’s value to be over the remainder of his service time?
I agree on the 2nd point. Greg Norton was a 20 VORP player in 2006. 130 OPS+ in 338 PA. Jose Vidro, 24.4 VORP in 2007, 109 OPS+ in 625 PA. So the standards are slightly higher, but only over 3 seasons.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Since we were talking about PECOTA a bit
I figured I would take the opportunity to ask the man himself:
Steven (Mid-town): Is Huston Street for Matt LaPorta a fair trade? Does it make sense for the A’s with Cust already around?Nate Silver: It’s reasonably fair. I actually think I’d rather have Street’s next six years: LaPorta’s nice, but: he’s 23, and is restricted to a corner outfield spot which he doesn’t play very well. But since Street is already into his fourth year of service time, what you’d be doing is trading three years of Street for six years of LaPorta. And that would definitely be worth it.
No, my name’s not really Steven, though I am in Midtown…
That's a plausible answer, I guess
It doesn’t seem like the A’s are making much progress in signing Street to a long-term deal, so they’d probably only get the three years from him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Hmm, nice to see that Nate Silver
basically is saying what I’m trying to say.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
That link is not very convincing
First, no one said anything about Gaudin.
Second, you can’t use replacement level for closers. Bullpen replacements require chaining. If you remove the closer, he isn’t replaced by the best guy in AAA, he’s replaced by the second best reliever on the big league team. The replacement player takes the lowest leverage innings available, and everyone else moves one spot up the chain.
Third, you aren’t taking 2008 into account. Street has been much worse than projected, while LaPorta has been better than projected. You can’t ignore nearly a half season of playing time.
And if you’re going to look at real players (the way you do when you attempt to calculate the cost of LaPorta “demoting” another prospect), you should probably look at who would actually be replacing Street. For the next couple years, it would likely be Casilla or Devine.
Um, OK
Someone said something about Gaudin at the time. Would you prefer I went back and edited that out? Wait, can’t do that.
You could imagine the runs from Gaudin were the result of the “change” that was alluded to above. Or just ignore that part of the calculation completely.
I think it would be both simpler and more accurate to use runs above average than runs above replacement here. The A’s are trying to build a contending team here. I think Street+random OF will be about 30 RAA in the next 2.5 seasons. LaPorta+random arm needs to be of similar value over his tenure here. For him to be 5 RAA as a player, he needs to be about 20 RAA as a hitter, or an OPS in the .850 range (park neutral, of course—he would likely hit worse in Oakland, but everyone does).
I mean, it’s possible. If Beane thinks LaPorta will consistently hit for an OPS of better than .850, he should try to make the move. I’m hesitant on principle to project that for a player in AA.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Others handled the Gonzalez part...
But the Astros acquired 2 years of Valverde, compared to what would be 2.5 years of Street. And I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference between a 28 year old closer and a 24 year old closer.
Well, let me put it this way
I thought that was an incomprehensibly bad trade for Arizona at the time.
So if the A’s were to trade Street for similar value, I would think it an incomprehensibly bad trade now.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yes, I am
"Do you know that the guy really doesn't like baseball all that much?" - J.P. Riccardi
by black beane on Jun 25, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
{checks pockets}
Dang.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+1
I sure as hell wouldnt deal Huston AND soemthing for LaPorta. Please no.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 25, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Brewers trade
If I were running the A’s, I’d offer the Brewers Street and a mid-level prospect for LaPorta and Mat Gamel, their third base prospect. Gamel’s hitting has been ridiculous, while his defense has been atrocious. But, his defense was considered his strong point when drafted, so maybe that’s a problem that could be worked out. Either way, getting LaPorta plus potentially the long-term answer at 3rd would be a great deal for the A’s, I think. Plus, I’d really love to see Casilla closing, or failing that, let Andrew Brown close.
A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Street plus Brett Anderson for those two would probably be a fair deal
but I see no particularly good reason why that trade should happen now instead of in the offseason, when all the players (including the rest of the A’s bullpen) will have more data to evaluate them and the A’s won’t be in a putative playoff race.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Hm, on second thoughts, Anderson for Gamel isn't such a good swap
OK, let’s say Greg Smith instead. He’s got a solid track record at this point. Or Simmons, maybe.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Eveland has been good thus far, but...
...long term, I don’t see him being anything more than a journeyman starter.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
That would probably be too much, IMO
But I guess I could see the A’s including Anderson, since we have some minor league depth at pitcher and a young rotation. The reason that I think this deal would have to happen now, is there’s likely some urgency for Milwaukee, given that they have a legit shot at the playoffs and an unsettled (to say the least) bullpen at the moment. Plus, I really don’t think trading Street hurts the A’s right now, as I think Casilla and Brown could close. Heck even Embree has shown he can handle closer duties. All that being said, I’d love for the A’s to acquire LaPorta and Gamel.
I see you update below. I like trading Smith less than your Anderson idea. I think he’s just scratching the surface and has some real potential. Maybe not an ace, but a solid 2 or 3, especially if he brings the walks down a little. I’d rather see Eveland traded before Smith. Simmons . . . I could live with that deal.
A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
I know Smith has done well this season
but guys with 87 MPH fastballs and less than pinpoint control simply do not produce above-average MLB numbers over the long haul. I mean, on a pure-stuff basis, he doesn’t even compare favorably to Simmons (who has a low-mid 90s fastball and DOES have pinpoint control). And I haven’t exactly been blown away by the number of scouting reports describing Simmons as a future #2.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
While I know and can internalize what you're saying . . .
Smith has had a couple big strikeout games and gets a good amount of swinging strikes (although I can’t quickly find this percentage). Pitch f/x has his average fastball at just over 89 mph (http://baseball.bornbybits.com/2008/Greg_Smith.html), which is fine for a lefty. Plus, apparently he’s developed a cutter this year, which has been a great weapon for him. I certainly could be wrong and everything you’ve said is true (even if I think you undersell Smith’s “stuff”), but I think he’s the real deal and would not like to see him traded. That being said, the A’s have a lot of good young arms to be excited about, so if they need to move one to shore up the offense (by acquiring good young hitters, ala LaPorta and Gamel, not by getting guys like Holliday or Bay), then so be it.
A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Huh
His algorithm thinks Rich Harden’s offspeed pitch, and Duke’s cut fastball, are both sliders.
This is totally unrelated to anything, I just thought it was interesting.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Let's be honest
Nobody knows what the hell Rich Harden’s offspeed pitch is. Truth be told about a quarter of what the announcers are calling Rich’s changeup, I’m pretty sure are actually sliders. Or he pronates (or is it suplinates) his forearm when he throws his changeup, which kinda makes it a slider.
Pitch f/x definitely gets some of the pitches wrong, but it’s still a damn cool thing to play around with. And it makes it more fun to watch a game on tv while simultaneously wathcing on gamecast on the computer.
A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Josh Hamilton
Might be impossible to get him away from texas, but Harden and Buck for Hamilton? A potential elite pitcher and solid outfielder for a potential elite outfielder.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
I'd do this trade in a New York microsecond
but there’s no way on earth Texas would. It would be an absolutely terrible deal for them.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It's too late for Hamilton
The time to trade for Hamilton was when the Reds were willing to deal him. Now that he’s staying healthy, and showing that last season was no sample size fluke, Harden and Buck isn’t going to be enough.
Hamilton is not just potential elite outfielder. He’s already an elite outfielder. He’s already an MVP candidate. He’s a potential yearly MVP candidate. He’s a potential “best player in MLB”.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
My thoughts
If we would be targeting an outfielder without a monstrous salary, the choices would probably be Jason Bay or Xavier Nady. But, Bay>Nady, I think that’s pretty obvious considering the almighty stat: OBP. But besides that, Bay has been superior in just about every category: HR/AVG/BB and both are 29. The only problem is what we’d have to give up for Bay; the Pirates are in need of starting pitching so the obvious candidate is Blanton with Gaudin filling in the rotation for us. However, I also doubt that Pittsburgh would take Blanton-Bay straight up so I was thinking of adding another pitcher like…Kirk Saarloos or Lenny DiNardo for instance. With our organizational depth, the loss of either one wouldn’t have a negative effect on us, opening up a spot in AAA for Mazzaro, who is doing well in AA, and having someone in Stockton go to Midland. If we were to acquire Bay, our lineup might look a little something like this:
2B Ellis
RF Sweeney
LF Bay
DH Cust
3B Chavez
SS Crosby
C Suzuki
CF Gonzalez
1B Barton
That’s certainly a potent middle lineup, and just wait until the Big Hurt returns…But wait! With Thomas back one of our outfielders will be suffering a loss of playing time, and from the looks of it, it will either be Gonzalez, or Cust platooning with Frank. Regardless, the addition of Bay will give us another right-handed power bat, while seeing Gaudin perform in the rotation, hopefully, better than Blanton.
Well those are my two cents, so how is the situation with Bay? Is he really an upgrade for this year and next, or am I some crazy loon that escaped from the asylum?
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
Did you really suggest Saarloos or Dinardo?
Nice dream you should definitely be GM if you can pull that off.
Ok...
Saarloos AND DiNardo? The Pirtaes really need pitching and those two gives them decent options.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
If they wanted either of those guys
they would have claimed them on waivers when they were freely available earlier this season.
The Pirates will be looking for the same kind of players for Bay that Oakland was looking for with Haren—guys with less than one year of MLB service time. Blanton is no help to Pittsburgh. They need quality infield prospects and starters with mid-to-top-of-rotation upside.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Sheesh
if they value Bay that much, then forget about it unless Beane can work some magic.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
Most likely
but I wouldn’t do it. Bay is gone after the 2009 season (I think?) and he’s not worth giving up Smith, a rookie doing well in the Majors and can do well in years to come, and Cahill, someone who has been projected as a #3 starter to even an ace. That’s just not worth it. I wouldn’t be too heartbroken if it was Blanton/Pennington for Bay, but apparently Pittsburgh doesn’t need Blanton.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
Pennington is awful
He cannot hit at all.
Replace him with Petit and maybe you have something. Or maybe Joshua Horton or Jesus Guzman.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I don't believe even Dave Littlefield or
Steve Phillips makes that trade.
Saarloos and Di Nardo isn’t even going to get you Xavier Nady, much less Jason Bay.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Unfortunately, two pitchers who are half-decent
don’t add up to one good pitcher. :-(
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They don't even add up to one decent pitcher
which is what the math would indicate.
[waits for someone to say something about how math isn’t everything]
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Math IS everything
Grammar, on other hand, aren’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bay is definitely the one to go after...
i’m not saying sell the farm for him but he would certainly improve our offense and he’s affordable for the next year plus
How do you suggest obtaining him other than by selling the farm?
Hypnosis?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Please
Save the prospects and the trading chips and sign Barry Lamar Bonds to play first, or if that’s unrealistic, have him play some OF. Look though, we’re getting Frankie T back, and we’re rebuilding for next seasons when we have a matured CarGon and matured pitching prospects. Bonds would be cheaper than trading prospects (plus our payroll is much lower than recent years) and Bonds could hit just as well as most players we traded for. His defense is the only drawback, but if we can employ Cust, we can employ Bonds.
We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA
He's not going to play first
He’d have moved to first years ago if he was a competent infielder.
That said, Jason Bay isn’t playing first either—and getting Bonds would certainly be a better play than getting Bay.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
you are right about Bonds
and Bay couldn’t play first base this year, but there is lots of precedent for other players switching to first later in their careers, is there not? Case in point: Scott Hatteberg. I think you’d have to have at LEAST the offseason to get him prepared though, it wouldn’t be this season (I definitely wouldn’t want him as my starting 1b in the playoffs). If we were to trade for a player, I either want Bay or something cheap, but Bonds is by far the best idea.
We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA
by DyeLongJustice on Jun 25, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I would just like to point out that there is one plan where we could have an AWSOME offense
but quite possibly the worst defense in the history of baseball.
1B M. Sweeney
LF Dunn
RF Cust
CF Bonds
DH Thomas
3B Chavez
2B Ellis
C1 Suzuki
SS Crosby
Now imagine if we then traded for Jeff Kent, Troy Glaus and Nomar Garciaparra and plugged them into 2B, 3B and SS…
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
Although that looks slightly less bad
if you do it like this….
CF R. Sweeney
1B Dunn
RF Cust
LF Bonds
DH Thomas
3B Chavez
2B Ellis
C1 Suzuki
SS Crosby
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
An outfield of
Dunn Bonds Cust would be hilariously fun. Granted, not for the poor pitchers.
Nomar and Kent wouldn’t help the O though. They’re both cliff diving.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Our SB would significantly drop as well
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Jun 26, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
From a far
congrats on your success so far this year I just hope you guys can catch the hated Angels, and believe me from experience you do not want the albatross that is Mark Texiera, you would be way better off going after Bonds to Dh and I think would make a perfect #2 hitter for y’all.
we already have Thomas to DH when he gets back from the DL
Thomas can NOT play the field anymore. Even when healthy, Thomas could only play 1B, and he can not do that anymore.
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
True, but how long can the A's afford to wait
with the DH spot being (in effect) filled by Emil Brown?
It’s nice and all to keep spots open for the vets, but at some point you need to activate contingency plans.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Why not sign Bonds for a month, and then
when Frank Thomas gets back, DFA Bonds. Just for the fun of being a struggling offensive team that issues Bonds a DFA.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You think Frank Thomas is going to be back in 7 days?
He’s not even scheduled to think about possibly picking up a bat until July 1.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Ellis price
The Rotoworld blurb suggests 4 years at $24million. What do people think of that?
Me, I’m on the fence. It’s not a “hell yes”, but it’s not a “no way” either. Which might mean it’s a realistic price.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
Since I'd be more than happy to do that amount for 3 years,
getting a 4th year (even if he’s likely to suck by then) would be pure gravy…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Paul, you're the one person here
I didn’t need to ask the question of. I already knew your answer!
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
I'd jump at it, simply because
$6million/year is chump change, in today’s market, for a core player. Ellis is the type of player who will still help a team when he loses some skills, because he will maximize his abilities and he will make adjustments (for example, if he loses power he may become a higher average hitter by hitting more like Kendall in his prime, slapping line drives from foul line to foul line).
I think Randy Velarde is a good model for how a 2Bman without star-level skills can potentially thrive into his late 30s, rather than tanking at age 34-35. And if Ellis “sucks” by the 4th year of his contract, remember that by 2012, $6million will be even more of a modest amount to pay a player – a player who will, at worst, be an awesome mentor to the next 2Bman-in-training.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"Randy Velarde is a good model for how a 2Bman without star-level skills can potentially thrive into his late 30s"
Um …
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
that's "what," not "how"
I think we all know what the “how” was w/r/t Velarde’s durability.
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
I meant "to what extent"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think they'll wind up with something like 3/30 with a club option/buyout
The A's colors are green and gold.
I understand the rational aspects of PT's valuation schemes ...
... but I have a real psychological block against approving crossing the arbitrary “round-figure” 8-digit/y threshold for a middle infielder with at-best average (and highly likely to decline) offensive skills.
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
Well, then,
it’s a good thing he’s not “at-best average” offensively. At best, he is above average, such as this year and last year. And if you look down the 2009 FA list, he is definitely top 10, and probably top 5.
The A's colors are green and gold.
Mark Ellis, career OPS+: 101
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
wow, 101?
Just as good as Shannon Stewart last year for his whole career!
(Unfortunately, you and mikeA should have swapped responses.)
Can an aging lemur suffer from dementia? @('.')@
Average =/= "at best"
This is basic mathematics…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
How about trading Chavvy?
Would anybody be interested in getting Chavvy, do you think? As has been the case in prior years, having Chavvy playing every day hasn’t made the A’s a better club, and he’s once again having a lot of very low quality ABs, bouncing throws to first and complaining of aches and pains and the need to sit out a day or two. Those ABs last night were particularly worthless against a guy who, in addition to having his best “stuff” of the year, evidently, against the A’s, has been hit hard by lefties of all stripes. Year to date Chavvy has all of 2 HRs, one of which came with the A’s up 5-0 in a game in which they scored 14 runs. Yeah, I know, I’m always down on Chavvy, but if anybody inquires about him, I say federal express the guy. What’s he making this year and next?
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