PFP: Marlins 6, A's 4
by monkeyball on Jun 21, 2008 9:35 PM PDT
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PrintYeah, that could be either "pretty freakin' pathetic," or "pitchers' fielding practice."
Top 9, game tied, 2 outs, Marlins on 1st and 2nd (and Dan TyBabeTedBarryManny Uggla on deck): A's right-side infielder makes a very nice play to snag a grounder -- and the closer isn't at first in time to cover.
Bottom 9, A's down 2, bases juiced, 2 outs: Marlins right-side infielder makes a very nice play to snag a grounder -- and the closer is at first in time to cover.
As Nico said in the game thread, it's a game of freakin' centimeters. Cantu snagged Swooney's would-be-game-tying-or-even-winning sharp grounder down the line, flipped the ball to Gregg covering -- game over.
Once again, both teams made a good ballgame even more exciting in the late going. While the ninth inning featured some really poor control by both closers (and some even worse strike zone control by home-plate umpire Dana Demuth), both bullpens actually pitched pretty well -- all the late scoring was executed by some pretty good swings by both teams on balls that didn't miss their targets by a whole lot.
The starting pitching was a different matter, though, with Eveland and Nolasco both pitching into, around, through, over, under, edging around the corner of, and finally out of, trouble repeatedly.
Eveland finally settled down, and pitched into the seventh -- a Notnalb start (starting ineffective, and finishing ... well, "strong" is a little ... strong; let's leave it at "effective").
It's hard to fault any of Geren's decisions in the game -- up until the ninth inning. Bringing in Street seemed peculiar, given Street's ineffectiveness last night and the (apparent) availability of Brown, Gaudin, and what seemed like half the starting rotation in the 'pen. And letting Rajai Davis bat in the bottom of the ninth was simply inexcusable (unless Barton was/is deathly ill).
I liked Englishmajor's invocation of Woohoozuki's quote from last night's postgame interview: "We are never gonna give up. We may not win every game but I guarantee we will be fighting until the last out."
It'd just be nice if the offense didn't have to fight until the last out once in a while.
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how bout not having Street pitch the 9th at all...
that was my first choice.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
I thought there were two very bad decisions by Geren
(and I usually defend him).
Walking Hermida was a bad move, not because it’s always wrong to issue an IBB there but because Hermida is just not great enough to warrant it. It was predictable that the lineup might turn all the way to Uggla – in fact it was going to with just one more baserunner. Pitch to Hermida and Cantu with the breathing room of Helms. Don’t walk freaking Jeremy Hermida.
And letting Rajai Davis hit against a RHP when Barton is available? I thought there must be something up Geren’s sleeve, like Davis was going to bunt for a hit, because no way is he the right guy to have up there looking for a hit OR a walk, when you have Barton ready. What the heck was that about?
And yet we STILL almost won – you have to love the fight in this team, if nothing else. One centimeter away. (And why was Cantu guarding the line? He had no business…Grr…)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you don't think running a craptastic closer who can't top 90 mph...
out there was a mistake? He threw an absolute meatball to Uggs. Hell, my kid probably would went yard on that pitch.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think there were better options
You would think Gaudin but he wasn’t even going back to pitch the 10th – a starting pitcher (Smith) was warming up – so apparently he wasn’t an option to go a full inning (why, I don’t know). Casilla and Foulke were not available and Brown pitched two innings yesterday. Again, bad options tend to make a manager look bad.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I find it hard to believe Gaudin couldn't have pitched a full inning...
certainly, Street couldn’t.
Geren: “Okay, Huston… get out there an get a little confidence back after last night’s debacle.”
Street: “Sure thing, Skip.”
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder whether Gaudin will take Blanton's start on Tuesday
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 21, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting point -there has to be SOME reason
Greg Smith was going to pitch the 10th while Gaudin went only 0.1 IP.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But even so, I'd rather he pitched for the duration tonight.
He probably wouldn’t go more than four innings on Tuesday anyway.
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 21, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
i didnt really understand.......
walking a number 2 hitter to get to the number 3 guy either….....that was quite odd
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I can understand it if it's Polanco or M. Young,
and the next 2-3 hitters are better matchups – which can happen when, say, Cust is pinch run for and Raj Davis or E. Brown is suddenly in the #3 hole – or if the #3 hitter is a real DP possibility) and not a high average hitter. But Jeremy Hermida? Come on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agreed with the walk, given Street's ridiculous platoon splits
Career OPS vs RHB - .466
Career OPS vs LHB - .738
And Hermida had just homered off him the night before.
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 21, 2008 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the HR was weighed the most,
and I think that’s the mistake. Honestly, would you rather have Street pitch to Hermida or Uggla with the game on the line? Because the career platoon splits say Uggla, but…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm pretty confident with a healthy Street against just about any righty
and not so against just about any decent lefty. Hermida isn’t chopped liver. He does have a career 108 OPS+.
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 21, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
A "healthy Street" may be the key
I have a feeling he’s gutting it out because he knows the pen is barren. Which is valiant, but is not really helping at the moment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My DVR switched over at 10 p.m to record something else
How hard was Sweeney’s ball hit.
That would have been something had it gone down the line.
Oh well
Gascan lefty tomorrow
It was hit pretty hard, not a "shot".
If Cantu is off the line it gets through, almost did anyway.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Damn
As long as we can win tomorrow I will be happy.
Sweeney is and has been very clutch. Even the outs he makes are well hit. He goes the other way and is developing into a vewry good player IMO
I'm cautiously optimistic about tomorrow
either a CG win by Duke or we rout them. Either scenario is very likely, thouh
Meant to tell you monkeyball
In fire speak, those aren’t bolt cutters. That’s a universal key.
The monster at the end of this blog.
heh
Yeah, after I clipped the lock, I just stood there for a second, grinning: What else can I break into?
How ‘bout "jackass"? Can I still say "jackass"? @('.')@
the other thing
A very satisfying lesson in basic physics, and the wonder that is a lever.
How ‘bout "jackass"? Can I still say "jackass"? @('.')@
Or a master key.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
That 9th inning brings back painful memory of that game against TB,
where Geren ordered the IBB to Pena, and after Devine struck out 2 batters, a mishandled double by Brown cleared the bases, and cost the A’s the game
Street just said he was slow and should have covered 1st
on the ball to Ellis and that would have ended the inning.
He also said his stuff is fine but he missed location two nights in a row and the pitch to Uggla was a little up and he burned me two nights in a row.
He also said, he has forgotten about it (loss) , it is out of his mind already.
I'll just repeat myself
I hate Dan Uggla.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 21, 2008 10:10 PM PDT reply actions
I don't - I just hate that he isn't on my team
I hate Lackey and K-Rod, A.J Pierzynski and Precious Jeter. Uggla just hits really really well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd take any of those guys except Pierzynski. I prefer Kurt.
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 21, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
that guy is a bonafide chode that GAY JAY puszinkski........
hate em
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I was liking you up until the homophobia
I guess I’ll make an exception for A.J., though.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i use LAME JAY too......
just depends on my mood.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
As a heterosexual cripple,
now I’m DEEPLY offended for the first time.
Though as an ambulatory tranny, I’m still a bit more peeved about the earlier comment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and as a Stunt double for the virgin mary, im deeply aroused.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
^ I don't get this ^
And yet … it’s still funny.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
I don't really hate him
Just hating him these last two days.
I actually like the Marlins even though the Florida fans are so lukewarm to them. They’re building a pretty great team down there. Again.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 21, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
fire sale will soon follow........dont worry
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont know about a fire sell at least for a few years
as the Marlins are getting a new ball park in Miami
with a former Halo as their manager
just wanted to add that ;)
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
sure, they hit home runs, but their defense is the worst in the league,
if the opposing pitchers can keep the ball in the park, they are very much beatable
Marlins batting average is below average, but their slugging average is really good.
Leading the majors in HRs
the Rays can hit
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
but their pitching staff shutdown the marlins for two games, 7-3, 4-1
The Marlins scored 6 runs in both games in this series
And we're coming off a series where we outscored
Arizona 17-14! Are we leading the division yet?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not really -
We got 3 hits and took a 1-1 game into the bottom of the 8th.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
our "healthy" pitching staff...
may be better than the Rays. As currently configured, I doubt it. And, there bullpen ERA is slightly better than ours.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
before tonight...
ours was slightly better. After tonight, theirs is slightly better.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know what to make of it
on the one hand, we have a good bullpen, ERA ranked among league leaders,
on the other, the bullpen have taken more losses than the starting pitchers, below .500
That tells you our hitters leave a lot of
1-1 games to the pen, and keep not scoring until the pen gives up a run. It’s how a Duchscherer can have an ERA of 2.08 and be only 7-4.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I understand your point
offense has never been our strong suite though. A typical A’s win is a low-soring, well-pitched, well-defended game
Correction:
The bullpen actually have an above .500 winning percentage,
Blanton himself has more losses than the entire bullpen combined.
What if you factor in losses to Blanton
when the BP allowed inherited runners to score?
(Or Emil Brown for that matter)
by MobiusKlein on Jun 22, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Only two (out of ten) losses Blanton had
were due to poor defense and/or inherited-runners scoring.
What’s more troubling is that his ERA has actually gone up from April to June, allowing HRs and many BBs in his last 7 starts. Our defense has improved in the last month, but as the baseball cliche goes, there is no defense against HR or BB
brokin' keyBord cutsy Pasty…
mistake?…agree 100%…Grr…freakin’ Street…pretend meatball…(and I usually defend him)…Geren’s decisions ineffective…Barry juiced…Dana Demuth burned Us…Let’s key A.J Pierzynski’s car…
"You have to have a catcher or you'll have all passed balls."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 21, 2008 10:20 PM PDT reply actions
{keys Pierzynski's car}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Went to both last night's game
and tonight. Sat right behind home plate … perhaps Street is hurt, I don’t know. One thing I do know … every Marlin on the bench is salivating at the thought of hitting against him. Uggla makes him look like a T-baller. I mean, it’s one thing to blow a couple games … but my goodness, man, let’s try not to give up life-threatening line drives to every hitter. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a pitcher so hittable. The Marlins are begging he gets in the game tomorrow … I’m not. Street is really, really bad right now. Horrifically, embarassingly bad.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Esteban hittable?!
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2008 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Davis, Street, So So Lefty
Is Rajai the new starting centerfielder?
Is that pitch Street threw to Uggia the worst pitch since Niedlessfuel’s gopher ball to Jack Clark?
Will the A’s get more than 10 hits tomorrow against a very mediocre leftie?
comments are forever
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 21, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
like diamonds?
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 21, 2008 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
No, more like going to Street for the 9th no matter what
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Seriously
if he can’t pitch any better than that, he needs to be on the DL. We would suffer without having a “true” closer (I must admit, bringing Foulke in four years too late scares me senseless), but not nearly as much as the false hope and bitter crushing of our souls we’re suffering now when he blows save after save.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2008 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions
When he blows save after save?
Including the last 2 nights, that’s THREE this season.
We’re. All. Gonna. Die.
Yeah
he’s looked sharp all season, except the last two nights.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Reading the game MLB game wrap,
I got the impression that Geren was implicitly blaming Street for the loss, essentially saying that he made the right decision to use Street but Street blew it.
A managerial copout
Excerpt from the Wrap:
—
After the game, manager Bob Geren explained his simple reasoning behind letting Street go out in the ninth after having suffered an up-and-down outing on Friday. “Street’s our closer,” Geren said. “That’s what I do in the ninth inning with a tied game. I put in our closer. “He knows it comes with the territory. When you make mistakes as a closer, it’s visible because it comes in the ninth inning … and when it comes two together, it magnifies it a bit.”
—
Well, if you make a mistake as a manager, it’s also visible because it affects the outcome of the game.
And when you make two bad decisions in a row, it sure does magnifies a quite a bit
I don't particularly care for Geren's attitude
when it comes to his reasoning for running Street out there. His job is to manage the team. The only reason he should be running Street out there is if he thinks Street is his best option to win the game. He shouldn’t be concerned with hurting his feelings. And that’s what this sounds like. Street was lit up last night. He should have taken a flyer on him tonight.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I tend to think that Street is still hurting.
Thing about him, when he takes the hill you know in short order which Street you have on that night. He’s either lights out or he struggles. His velocity is down and the Marlins were hitting him hard. His control wasn’t all that great either. I think it’s a piss poor manager decision to “put him in the ninth just because he’s our closer.” Geren’s first priority in his job is to manage the team to victory….not pet the ego’s of his players.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I'm really just bitching about his reasoning.
I understand that closers are going to blow leads. I expect Geren to manage the team to win, not to appease players. He had options, I won’t pretend to know the “best one”. It just irks me to hear him phrase his reasoning in such a manner. If he believed in Street as his best choice, he should have said so. If he didn’t, he should have used another pitcher. It sounds to me as if he’s deflecting criticism onto either his pitcher or his front office. That’s crap.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
No problem!
Just think Bob did a piss poor job explaining himself. It sounds to me like he threw Street under the bus.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
It's possible that Geren knows what
best motivates Street, and this is it.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
You make a good point.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I share alox's sentiments there.
Last night, Street gave up a HR in the top of the 8th inning, a blown save there. After the offense picked him up by scoring two runs in the bottom of the inning. Street came in the 9th and gave up another HR. That to me clearly shows that Street is not a good match for the Marlins right now. And since he already pitched two innings last night, Geren shouldn’t have used him again tonight. The way Geren explained his reasoning really bothers me, because it sounds as if he is not willing to take responsibility/blame as a manager, but lays all the burden on his young struggling closer.
Geren said it comes with the teritory.
That isn’t stroking a closer’s ego IMO. It’s telling him that’s his JOB. To come back after a bad game and to do his job again …better.
Closers are going to blow saves.
It is not uncommon for them to do that and then come back the next night and do fine. That’s baseball.
I agree
and its such a small sample, who really knows what or if there was a problem the past few night.
I take issue with the velocity thing too. We only know what we see in the radar gun, I don’t thin stadium or tv guns are going to give you an accurate reading relative to “normal.” there are too many factors
The Marlin's bats didn't lie.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Not sure about Geren or Young's style
Street struggles in non close situations. When his one inning pitch count gets high, bad things follow.
Our defense kept Eveland from what could have easily been a lopsided blowout. Our park and our outfield defense with THREE center fielders, can make a mediocre day on the mound look like an ace performance .
Florida is the real deal, lets not shortchange them.
And it sure would be welcome if we had a Dan Uggla type hitter emerge on OUR team. Tip your hat to Uggla. I joped Dan Johnson and then maybe Derik Barton could be the next A’s slugger. Oh well, just not happening for us yet. Its a colossal gap in our arsenal, and must be addressed. Florida has FIVE players with more home runs than our HR leader Jack Cust.
All that said
We would’ve won the D’backs series if our bullpen could’ve held the opposition. We would already have won the Marlins series and not had to work so hard for a W on Friday had our bullpen held off the opposition. We’ve dealt well all season long with our lack of power. Our current dilemma is our bullpen’s inability to hold a lead or tie. Now it’s not an epidemic yet, but three nights in a row (okay, one day and two nights) is excessive and a little more of a trend than I’d care to start.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
The A's bullpen has been (unrealistically) amazing all season.
In fact, you could really say that about the entire A’s pitching staff.
The “current dilemma” is not the bullpen’s inability to hold a lead or tie, because the bullpen isn’t unable to hold a lead or tie. The current dilemma is the exact same frigging dilemma it was a week ago. (Viz., the offense.) There is no way, at this point in the season, that six games represent anything more than a heavily luck-driven ebb and flow.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Still, I suspect nagging injuries in the BP
The usage of the BP pitchers is just wacky –
The standard ‘hide the injuries’ deal is going on, and we don’t have to like it.
by MobiusKlein on Jun 22, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm in awe of your ability
to reason away any differing opinion, once again.
Florida ain't no place for a self-respecting A's fan.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Some support would indeed help
The bullpen was probably due for a slump. Still, I think some of the bullpen’s recent woes could have been avoided. I don’t understand why Geren takes pitchers fresh off the DL and thrusts them immediately into spots where they have to protect small leads late in games. That’s a lot to ask, especially considering how the team underutilizes its injury rehab assignments. Foulke and Casilla were barely tested in their rehab stops. Foulke didn’t even pitch well during his stint in Sacramento and Stockton. Perhaps it would be wise to ease them into their roles if they’re not going to be tested in the minors first.
Also, I still dislike Geren’s liberal use of the intentional walk. I’m sick of watching his IBBers score. Street is struggling enough without having his manager give the opposition free baserunners to tack on insurance runs.
And what is the deal with Street? I hear the rumors about him pitching through a minor groin pull. Radar gun readings aside, he doesn’t look right. Is his control off because of an injury? Or is he afraid go after the hitters because an injury has robbed him of his best stuff? Either way, it looks like he’s nibbling a lot and that’s very un-Street-like. He’s not so good that he’s an asset to the team at less than 100%. If he’s not healthy, put him on the DL so he can get healthy and bring up someone who is. Ziegler’s role can certainly afford to be bumped up a notch.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
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