The A's without an Ace

by javaball on Jun 19, 2008 12:48 AM PDT

Tonight's loss against the Dbacks and the A's former ace Dan Haren brought home the painful truth that the A's don't have an ace on their pitching staff. Not yet, at least.

An ace is someone who 1. leads the team in wins 2. stops the team's losing streaks 3. keeps his composure when in big jams and pitches out of them. 4. is durable throughout the season

Barry Zito was an ace. Dan Haren was an ace. Joe Blanton, despite repeated attempts by manager Geren to set him apart for that role, just doesn't have the stuff and makeup of an ace. With tonight's loss, Blanton leads the AL in losses at 10. He is visibly rattled when he gets into jams, knowing he doesn't have the out pitches to escape.

To give Blanton credit, he is an inning-eater, and he will work hard with pitching coach Curt Young to try to improve, but unless he turns it around quickly and pitches extremely well for the rest of the season, he'll have a losing record at the end.

The only two starting pitchers with winning records so far, Rich Harden and Justin Duchscherer, have not yet pitched 70 innings due to injuries. They both have great stuff, and the potential to develop into the ace of the staff, but their durability is still a question mark.

The other two starting pitchers, rookies Greg Smith (4-5) and Dana Eveland (5-5), have shown some promises, but yet unproven on the major league level. How they will fare down the stretch remains to be seen.

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Small note

Zito leads the majors in losses.

And, not that tonight really would have made a difference, but it’s pretty tough when you get so little run support that you basically have to go out and give up fewer than 3 runs a game to have a chance of winning.

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by Flashfire on Jun 19, 2008 1:00 AM PDT reply actions

It is tough pitching for an anemic hitting tream, like the A's

but that’s how you know the pitcher is really good, if he can win games consistently with little run support.

by javaball on Jun 19, 2008 1:14 AM PDT reply actions

No

Because “Win” for a pitcher is one of the dumbest stats in all of sports. So you’re telling me that, hypothetically, if a pitcher starts 35 games and in every single one of them his team gets shut out, he’s not an Ace because he has no wins for the season? Even if his ERA is something ridiculous like 0.75. Maybe he’s 0-16 with a bunch of no decisions, but he’s not an “Ace” because he just can’t “win games”?

Obviously this example is an extreme that will never happen, but I think it shows a fundamental flaw in your hypothesis. The pitcher only has so much control of a situation.

That said, I don’t know if anybody really ever thought Blanton was a true ace.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 19, 2008 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't think Javaball is saving that at all.

I think what he is trying to say is that you gotta give pitchers on the A’s (or any other low scoring team in MLB for that matter) that much more credit when they win a game. We all know the WIN stat is flawed but being able to allow only 1 run and having the comfort of being able to allow 4 is a world of difference and it takes a very talented pitcher, given the odds, to succeed with the former.

by Amnesiac on Jun 19, 2008 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions

I of course am referring to the above comment

not the entire fan post.

by Amnesiac on Jun 19, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions

"That said, I don’t know if anybody really ever thought Blanton was a true ace."

I sure never thought that. But I did expect better from Joe this year. I mean, lately, he has looked pretty bad and not sure what to do with him anymore. Bullpen maybe? Move Guadin into the rotation? Trade him? I think the A’s would get lowballed for Joe right now….....

by mrod on Jun 19, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Based on what you just said

I think if he’s not hurt and if there’s nothing mechanically wrong, you just let him work through it. I haven’t noticed a major velocity drop or anything. He just has to figure it out and start getting guys out. It’s not fun to watch, but Blanton is not a bad pitcher, so I think by the end of the year he’ll be right in his usual 4-4.25 ERA range.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 19, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions

We Have Two Aces, Not Zero

What more do Harden and Duchscherer have to do? Yes, they both were hurt. So was John Lackey. So was Scott Kazmir—are they not the aces of their respective teams?? But in my book the definition of an ace is a guy who gives you the best chance of winning every 5th day—we have two of them, and we should be very thankful for that. Blanton was an illusion—a mediocrity disguised as a ”#1 starter”—and now we all see that. Harden and Duke are the real things.

by madmongoose on Jun 19, 2008 5:47 AM PDT reply actions

+1

by A'sfaninNC on Jun 19, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions

^ that.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Jun 19, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Blanton was never the #1 starter. He was the "opening day" starter. Why, because he was

an established big league pitcher, and he was completely healthy.

by theblackpearl on Jun 19, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions

+2

don’t make the mongoose mad

2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!

by OptimistPrime on Jun 19, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions

+1

I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball

by JediLeroy on Jun 19, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions

-.5 for the Blanton comment

I generally bemoan the profusion of Mr Sabermetric Sporks in the Scrabble ranks who don't know the meaning or usage of 50% of the words they use. -monkeyball

by JediLeroy on Jun 19, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions

I think java's point was that you can't rely on these guys to be there every 5th day

And, thus, they’re not true aces. I think I agree. Harden very clearly has Top 10 in baseball stuff. But do any of us truly count on him? And Duke has been phenomenal this year (I’m just waiting for the full year to pass before I say what an idiot I was for criticizing moving him to the rotation), but he’s got to do it for at least a full season before he can be called an Ace. He’s pitching great right now, but his lack of experience and injury history makes him a bit of a question mark going forward.

If both guys stay healthy, the A’s will be in good shape. Huge If.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jun 19, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Every team that has faced Harden and Duke this year

would like to vehemently disagree with your posting.

2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!

by OptimistPrime on Jun 19, 2008 8:41 AM PDT reply actions

No ace?

This blog is nonsense. Check the rest of the rotation and 90 % of the replies, Harden nd Duke.

by HRH on Jun 19, 2008 9:20 AM PDT reply actions

Yes, the entire blog is nonsense due to this fanpost!

I’ve told you millions of times not to exaggerate, and literally implored you not to misuse metaphors.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 19, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Duke Has 69 innings pitched

And unless he blows up in his next start he’s going to qualify for the lead league in ERA. Thats pretty much a duplication of Haren’s year last year so if you say Haren is an Ace then you have to say Duke is an Ace too. Go ahead….say it.

by GusanoQuemador on Jun 19, 2008 10:08 AM PDT reply actions

Even more reason to keep Harden

Stop calling for a Harden trade! Stop being so prospect-happy! You will not get value for Harden (at least not now). He is of more value to the A’s than anyone they could reasonably expect to get in a trade. (Gammons, take Harden off your pitcher trade board.)

by philly a's on Jun 19, 2008 10:30 AM PDT reply actions

4 potential aces

Harden, Duke, Eveland and Gaudin.

Plus, apparently, Gio.

Joe is no better than a #3 on a championship team. More likely a #4. Smith doesn’t seem to have the stuff to be a true ace, but I could see him posting similar numbers to the league leaders for portions of seasons. A solid #3. The other guys, though, have the stuff to be un-hittable when they are on. Of course, you can’t call any of them aces, as none have posted the requisite two or three solid seasons at their potential.

by Mark Borgschulte on Jun 19, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply actions

I would have to respectfully disagree about Eveland

OK pitcher but not an Ace, even potenially. Gaudin is iffy, why stick a potential Ace in the long man/mop up spot? I think he should take Evelands place but obviously Geren/Beane don’t think so, yet.

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by micdog2001 on Jun 19, 2008 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions