Should the A's Bring Back Rick Peterson?
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 17, 2008 5:04 PM PDT
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PrintIn case you've been living in a cave somewhere, Willie Randolph and his first base coach as well as former A's pitching guru Rick Peterson were fired today from their respective positions with the New York Mets .
For those of you who might be newer A's fans, Peterson was widely credited with helping the A's pitching staff become one of the best in the majors with his meticulous condition program, pitch counts and approach to pitching. The A's pitching has been damn good even since Peterson left, but the perception (rightly or wrongly) was that Peterson's program was the reason the A's wound up with such a good track record of healthy pitchers when he was here.
The A's have since had some injury issues with their pitching when Peterson left. I personally don't believe that Peterson made as much a difference as was the common belief at the time. You don't really notice the impact of a coach unless that particular aspect of the club is terrible. The A's pitching has remained very good even without the big three. Even without Peterson and his jacket no matter how hot it happened to be outside. Seriously, I remember this dude wearing a coat in Arlington when it was 95 and 100 percent humidity.
I'm not saying that Curt Young should be replaced, but perhaps there is a place in the A's organization to add Peterson as an extra roving pitching instructor. I know Peterson is an East Coast guy, which is why he took the Mets opportunity in the first place, so I'm not even sure if he's interested in coming back to Oakland. But you never know. Often people like to come back to the place where they had their most success.
Is this something the A's should consider? Or, like Mark McGwire, should we just let the past be the past?
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Harden's personal coach
Maybe we can bring him back just to be Harden’s personal conditioning and please-don’t-get-injured coach
Peterson was blamed for tinkering with Harden's motion after he got to the majors
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Perspective
By the way, Blez, “in case you’ve been living in a cave somewhere”?
So if something happens on some East Coast NL team some time this morning, and I don’t read about it till 5:30 pm the same day, that means I’m living in a cave??
Dude, some of us have real jobs and don’t sit around listening to ESPN 24 hours a day. You’re the one who’s the exception, not us.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
Well people knew this was coming
for weeks. So it should be no surprise. I think thats what Blez was getting at.
When will then be now? Soon.
It was so drawn out,
and so obviously inevitable, that stories foretelling Willie’s impending doom became a running joke over at Shysterball.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
show of hands, please
Who here actually has a job?
If we can’t fix the stupid, can we at least beat them senseless? @('.')@
what if some of us have jobs where we sit in a cave?
If we can’t fix the stupid, can we at least beat them senseless? @('.')@
Plato might argue that everyone has a job like this
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
dude...who pissed in your corn flakes?
Blez didn’t mean i as an indictment
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Jun 17, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, that was me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd stay away from the Special K too, by the way
They’re no longer “special” in a good way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
TIMBER!!!
Tim Burr, throwing in the bullpen, that is.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hmm, apparently I accidentally gave the wrong tone.
For the record: Not upset, not mad at Blez. Never was.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
That's fine
I just thought that most people surf the net at their job all the time (our network traffic takes a HUGE hit on the weekends, indicating that people are usually killing time at work on our sites) that they would’ve heard about it on the sites they visit. I swear every story on mlb.com today was about it.
“Joe Torre stunned by Randolph’s firing.”
“Harrelson and Randolph forever linked.”
“Minaya explains the rationale behind the Randolph firing.”
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 17, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
So my point was
I wasn’t trying to suggest that people spend all day watching ESPN. I apologize if it came off that way.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 17, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I did goof off quite a bit at work today.
It was a slow day and I was unmotivated. I probably spent more than an hour on the Web while at work today. But half of that was on the Harden thread here, which had no mention of the Mets, and the other half was on political blogs with no mention of baseball.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
: -)
stupid internet can’t read my facial expressions!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
The value of coaches
I lived in atlanta during the leo mazzone era – he was a high profile pitching coach on a team that had both multiple cy young winners and a lot of success in recuperating guys with problems and turning them into solid role-players. Finally a few years ago both the yankees and orioles came after him, a bidding war ensued, and he was went to the o’s for the princely sum of 400k. It turned out that his salary with the braves was ~ 150k. In other words, the most prominent pitching coach in the big leagues spent most of his career making significantly less than the big league players minimum.
The conclusion seems obvious: teams don’t think coaches bring much to the party, and they’re content to let the manager hire his buddies or other don’t-rock-the-boat guys because they don’t think it makes much difference. We all know – especially here – how much intense analysis has been applied to baseball the last few years. If there was any evidence that particular coaches had some genuine mojo, teams would be after these guys like they’re after some 16 yo pitching prospect from nicaragua. They’re not, so they might find a spot for peterson, but it will be because he’s an old buddy who knows the drill, not because he brings something rare and ineffable to the organizations young pitchers.
Huh?
And how much do teams pay GMs relative to players? Not very much. Ergo, by your reasoning, teams don’t think GMs bring much to the party. GMs don’t bring something rare and ineffable to the organisations.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I would say it differently
I would say that the marketplace tells us that the net supply of and demand for gms gives them a value greater than a coach but less than a hard hittin’ third baseman. If there was a gm who could demonstrably ensure that a team could succeed consistently while keeping payroll down he would command a hell of a salary, and perhaps even an equity position in a team – maybe we can think of one! But the market tells us that the average team is willing to go with a gm who is approximately equal in value to other guys who will do roughly the same job for roughly the same money.
by Hot Cup Joe on Jun 18, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, how much is the one we can think of being paid?
Compared to, oh, Emil Brown?
The problem with using the market is this case, is you are assuming that the market has perfect knowledge and makes perfectly rational decisions.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
sure, he can go be the pitching coach in AAA.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
No.
I’d have him be the pitching coach for Stockton, fix up H-rod and develop the talent there.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Jun 18, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
If we are looking at Peterson just to be a minor league pitching coach
or a roving pitching instructor, he ain’t comming here. There will doubtless be a team that will offer him a job on the MLB level.
Pessimism FTW! ... Wait what?
I'm not just suggesting minor leagues
I’m suggesting maybe they create an uber pitching position where he oversees the entire organization. Maybe it’s more of a front office gig.
Then again, that’s kind of a slap in the face to Curt Young who has been doing a damn fine job.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 17, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh, they can make him a "special consultant to the GM on pitching"
or something like that… teams can always come up with some job title to bring a guy on board…
With that noted, there’s less than zero chance that Curt Young would be supplanted as the everyday pitching coach, considering what the staff’s done this season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
We could
always hire him to groom that Inoa kid.. We want the best for our $4 million dollar investment.
by sf drift king on Jun 17, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
The Mariners could pick him up
And they REALLY need him. That coaching staff over there is about to get blown up anyway—as soon as the new GM is hired.
President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium
Sure
But it doesn’t matter. With the amount of crappy pitching staffs and subsequent crappy pitching coaches, I don’t think he should have much trouble finding a job in the majors. He’s not going to take a job across the country as a roving pitching instructor.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Peterson moved on and so did the A's
So we should not be concerned about him.
Charlie Brown GO A'S WIN
Giants and Zito
Zito have always credited his sucess to rick peterson. i think the giants might take a chance and give him a shot to bring Zito around
Peterson's Recent SuccessI
A couple of reports I read credit Peterson with turning John Maine and Oliver Perez into competent major league starters. Glavine credits him with extending his career.
I don’t think the Giants would hire him because he’d always be a threat to Righetti, and I don’t think the A’s would hire him because he’d always be a threat to Young. What I would really HATE to see is for Peterson to be reunited with Ron Washington in Texas because then it’s possible the Rangers might develop a real pitching staff.
Maine certainly
Maine has even gone in on the record stating that he learned more about pitching in a few months with the Mets than in a few years with the Orioles.
Glavine, yes. Apparently, he convinced Glavine to start piching inside, instead of constantly going down and away, down and way, down and away.
Perez? I’ve never read Perez actually crediting Peterson on his own. And it’s debatable just how much Peterson has fixed Perez. Perez’ control problems are back.
But let’s give him credit for Maine, Perez, and Glavine. OTOH, Mike Pelfrey has struggled for years to learn some secondary pitches.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Many say Peterson mishandled Pelfrey
Changed his mind every 2 days as to what secondary pitch Pelf should use. Curve, no, slider, no, wait let’s try the curve again, nah eff that, ever thrown a knuckleball?...
Peterson also said Pelfrey reminds him of a young Zito. Wha??!? I gotta believe Peterson’s Zenmaster stuff didn’t jibe with a lot of Mets guys. Put it this way – if something works for Zito, it probably doesn’t work for just about anyone else.
Billy Wagner seemed to dislike Peterson as well, as quoted in the NY Post: “Our pitching coach has no experience talking to a bullpen. He can help you mechanically, but he can’t tell you emotions. He has no idea what it feels like. And neither does Willie. They’re not a lot of help, put it that way.”
Well, he helped some guys.
Maine clearly and publicly stated that he learned more about pitching in a few months with the Mets than in a few years with the Orioles. Glavine credits Peterson for convincing him to start throwing inside, and helping him adjust.
Yeah Wagner dissed Peterson. But then, different coaches, whether pitching coaches, or even coaches in other sports, or strength coaches etc, have different strengths. Some are better at the emotional, psychological, motivational aspect. Some focus more on technical aspects, on form and technique. Some are better at strategy. And so on. Different athletes need help on different aspects. So a coach can help some athletes more, and others not so much.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I was thinking the same thing about Texas
wouldn’t that be weird, Washington, Howe, and Peterson in the same dugout?
I do kind of remember Peterson rubbing people the wrong way (hold back the molestation jokes) in the organization. Didn’t Mulder have a problem with him? And didn’t Mulder start having injury issuse the year after Rick left? hhhmm?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Yep, Mulder did not get along with Rick at ALL.
I don’t recall Hudson being overly in Peterson’s camp either, but I could be wrong.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
threat?
i dont think he will be a threat. because its time for a change with the giants and peterson would be the new pitching coach. Zito will turn his career in SF around and giants looks to begin a new era
also u made a very good point. we dont need rangers turning their pitching staff around.
If I recall correctly, Peterson left the A’s because he needed to be close to his home in New Jersey. It wasn’t that he was dissatisfied with the A’s or the A’s with him. It may have been something involving one of his children. If that situation hasn’t been resolved, I don’t expect he’ll be moving far from home.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
That's the stated reason he left
The unstated reason is that he and Ken Macha didn’t like each other. Macha’s no longer the manager, so that’s not an issue, but we also know that Ray Fosse doesn’t like Peterson either, and Fosse likes everybody. So, how many other people in the A’s organization don’t care for Peterson?
Besides, Curt Young is obviously doing a good job, so there’s no need for change.
The one thing I will say in Peterson’s defense is that while he was in charge of the A’s organization’s pitchers, the A’s were largely injury-free from the lowest minors to the top levels. As soon as Peterson left, injuries started snowballing to ridiculous levels.
Injuries aren't just among the pitchers, however--
Given the maiming of our position players, it seems like a band-aid on a compound fracture to bring Peterson back for the purpose of improving the health of the pitchers. If there’s an organizational cause related to the injury problem, it’s larger than just a one-man solution and needs to be dealt with for all players.
Though when he was he, Hudson was injured enough for everyone.
I like Peterson, I believe he should get a lot of credit for the work he did to temper a steely staff of doom on the mound, but I don’t think bringing him back is necessary.
Unless it’s to have him be a winter-jacket ninja that is used to torment Larry Davis. I’d be entertained by that.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
it ain't broke dont fix it
With the possible exception of the physical issues that Rich Harden has had (and these are probably just “Rich being Rich”), Curt Young has had a SUPERB tenure as pitching coach. Peterson just got fired? I say give YOUNG a raise.
For the record I say don't bring him back
isn’t he the kind of guy who likes to be in control of everything? I agree with Brian in 317.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
No.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
We have the best ERA in the American League.
Unless we can sign Rick Peterson and trade him for a middle of the order hitter, I’ll pass.
So it goes.
I assume another team will hire him.
I’d be extremely surprised and confused if he accepted a minor league assignment when he’ll certainly find a spot with another team.
Or with Zito. Which I’d actually love to see, it’d be interesting to see if he could put a dent in Z’s problems.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
It's being bandied about...
see the thread at McCovey Chronicles.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
"Bandied about"?
Dude, I’m 65% certain you’re channeling my dead great grandfather.
And I’m alright with that.
President and CEO of the Ryan Sweeney Apologists Consortium
Yeah, I've been watching that.
It’s a good idea, which is why I wonder if the Giants will actually do it. “Good idea” and “Brian Sabean” had a divorce…
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
With the $$$ they have invested in Zito...
...that they’re stuck paying pretty much no matter what… if I were them I’d try to hire Petersen as a “personal Zito assistant” in the hopes that it works. Really, what have they got to lose?
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
Missed by everyone on this thread
was brought out today in the SF Chronicle:
Rick Peterson is “owed” $4million plus by the Mets for this year, and perhaps more beyond. Anyone else who pays Rick Peterson a salary in 2008 causes that same amount of salary to get deducted from the money currently paid by the Mets.
As the article stated, anywhere Rick Peterson goes, he is essentially “working for free”.
Doesn’t sound like much incentive to show up anywhere…
Thus I think the speculation here is all moot. Rick Peterson isn’t helping anyone in 2008 IMO. Stranger things than “working for free” have happened, but think Rick won’t be making an appearance anywhere.
"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer
by One won lost won on Jun 19, 2008 9:25 AM PDT reply actions
Romanick and Peterson Are A Great Team:
Curt Young is a bump on a log. I’d hate to think of where this team would be without Romanick…
Pride And Poise!!!
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jun 20, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions
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