Geren is KILLING us up the middle
I am sure that some of the AN regulars will be able to have fun with that Fanpost title -- but I want to say that in general I have been happy with Geren, his lineup decisions and usage of the bullpen. My main point here is that I am getting a little upset by the fact that Geren does not seem to think that some of our guys need days off.
First, I would like to point out that Kurt Suzuki is NOT Jason Kendall. Even though he is young, he needs to take a day off more then once every three weeks. He has appeared in 37 of 40 games this year (36 of those were starts). He leads the entire MLB in innings and Games Started by catchers. The second place catcher in both of those stats is.... Jason Kendall (stunned silence). Should we really be running Suzuki out there this much? Is the Bowen-Geren relationship somehow similar to the Macha-Melhuse one? I am not saying we need to sit Suzuki because he is struggling offensively, but maybe he is struggling because he is not getting any rest at a very tough position to play every day. I don't know about you, but it makes me VERY nervous to have a rookie catcher that is leading MLB in innings and starts. Just not the way to keep him healthy.
Problem number two is Mark Ellis. He is currently 4th in innings played by second basemen (and would be third if he had not missed yesterday's game with a pulled hamstring). He has played in all 39 A's games prior to yesterdays injury, and started 38 of those games. Maybe a day or two off would not have prevented the hamstring injury that might land him on the DL, but it could not have hurt. Not to mention that Ellis has struggled a bit at the plate and a day or two off would also possibly help keep him rested.
Finally, our oft-injured shortstop Bobby Crosby. This is the guy that has been injured for us constantly throughout his career. This is the guy that management wants us to believe that his health is a key for potential success this year. Yet, this is also the guy that has not had ONE day off this year. He has played (and started) all 40 games the A's have played this year. He leads all of MLB in innings played at shortstop. This is how we take care of one of our more fragile players? Crosby has also not been hitting so great of late, and couldn't a day off here and there help keep his bat fresh and rested as well?
I realize the depth at middle infield has been sparse this season, but Murphy is on the bench and can play these positions. For once, rather rhen watching our guys drive themselves into the ground later in the season, lets actually use our bench and give some of these guys an occasional day off. Would it be so terrible if Murphy got one start during a week at 2B and then one start the next week at SS (giving Ellis and Crosby a day off every two weeks)? And Suzuki should get a day off almost every week. We could even try and get matchup advantages by using Bowen against tough right handers. Not a platoon, but just looking ahead at the schedule and thinking about scheduling Suzuki's off day for a matchup where Bowen might have a slight offensive advantage based on being a switch hitter.
I am rambling a bit at this point, so I will finish up and just say that if we want to actually keep these guys playing all season (and we may already have lost the chance for Ellis to do that) we need to give them days off. They are playing the most demanding (and important) defensive postions on the field and to not give them even an occasional off day is just downright stupid.
4 recs |
36
comments
Comments
Giving Crosby a day off is not going to prevent broken bones.
Okay, so if he’s not playing every inning, he’ll have fewer opportunities to be hit by pitches or slide into catchers’ gear, but the decrease in risk is not going to be substantial. His major injuries have been impact-related.
AN 3.0's Search Function is *hawt*!
by Poppy on May 14, 2008 11:28 AM PDT 0 recs
That is true to a point
but if he is not rested it is stil possibly affecting his bat and if he is not mentally rested, couldn’t that lead to a mental mistake in the field? (say not acting quick enough to avoid a take out slide, being just a bit slow in avoiding an outfielder on a pop up, etc)? I realize that his status as “injury prone” is somewhat unique based on the type of injuries he has sustained, but being mentally and physically fresh and rested could only help keep him healthy.
by AsFanInLA on
May 14, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
up
0 recs
There in lies the rub...
They are playing the most demanding (and important) defensive postions on the fieldso you want them playing the most, but they also need the rest. Murphy is adequate at SS, but not as good as Crosby. When Crosby can stop tripping over his own feet on throws.
by theblackpearl on May 14, 2008 11:30 AM PDT 0 recs
It's the DH thing,
again.
The A’s need another infielder on the roster, yes. But the only way to do that is by sending down Barton or releasing Thomas or Sweeney.
Can’t figure out the Bowen thing. My secret conspiracy-theory hypothesis is that the A’s are trying to save a spot for Landon Powell and don’t want a hot-hitting Bowen to get in the way of him getting called up. I admit that this hypothesis makes very little sense, but so does Bowen starting 4 games out of 40.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on May 14, 2008 11:31 AM PDT 0 recs
Sure seems that way, dunnit?
Memo to Geren: Suzuki is not a gasket.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
May 14, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
up
0 recs
I kind of disagree
I do agree that the A’s could in theory use more infiled depth, but that is not really my complaint. If we can only get Murphy one start at second base (prior to the Ellis injury) and zero starts at shortstop it seems that another middle infielder would just be even further buried on the bench. Its not like Murhpy has been overworked, so it seems that the lack of depth is not the probelem at the moment, but rather Geren’s refusual to give Ellis/Crosby a day off and using Murphy in the middle infield.
As for the Bowen thing, it mystifies me as well. It really does seem strange. If they really want to save a spot for a hot hitting Powell it would seem that actually playing Bowen would make more sense. If Bowen does not hit, perfect reason to call up Powell. If Bowen does hit, it would turn a spare part into a tradeable commodity and there are a number of teams looking for some catching depth right now
by AsFanInLA on
May 14, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
up
0 recs
yes
Presumably, Murphy is a better option than whoever we would call up to be a spare infielder; if he wasn’t, the other guy would be in the majors and Murphy would be in AAA. And if Murphy isn’t playing, I can’t imagine why someone else would be.
I think it’s just a matter of allowing Crosby/Ellis a day off once a week or so and going with Murphy on those days.
I have no good explanation for playing Suzuki so much. If Bowen is so bad, they need to replace him with Powell or someone else.
One stat I would like to find if the innings of Oakland’s catchers prior to Kendall. Perhaps it isn’t a matter of the manager (or whoever) liking Kendall or Suzuki so much, but rather an organizational strategy of not thinking catchers to take so many days off. After all, the idea that catchers should be only playing 120 games or so is something we’ve all heard, and something that makes sense, but I’ve never seen any factual evidence to back it up.
by rageon on
May 14, 2008 12:04 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I seem to remember Ramon, always being in the league leaders, and he was the
last fulltime catcher the A’s had before JK
by theblackpearl on
May 14, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Yup
Ramon played an average of 140 games a year from 2000-2003—and he was always among the league leaders for catchers.
by madmongoose on
May 14, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
up
0 recs
But Damian Miller was also fulltime
in 2004. How soon we forget.
by madmongoose on
May 14, 2008 1:42 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Damian Miller
But I’ve been TRYING to forget him. I’ll always remember him as the guy who got us an undeserved draft pick due to the stupid Brewers and the terrible Elias rankings.
by rageon on
May 15, 2008 7:00 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Wait...
You mean Michael Young WASN’T better than A-Rod last yer?
by mikev on
May 15, 2008 10:08 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Surely a hot hitting Bowen is trade bait.
Whilst I agree the fact we have three DHs hamstrings the roster a little there’s still no excuse for Crosby and Ellis to have played so many games when you have Murphy there to give them a rest.
by OldhamA on
May 14, 2008 11:52 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Eh, he's not much as trade bait
Even if he’s “hot hitting,” I don’t think anyone sees him as more than a backup.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
May 14, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
up
0 recs
maybe a red herring, but just throwing it out there...
One possibility that no one has mentioned is that perhaps Suzuki is potential trade bait…? The front office showed little reluctance to throw an inexperienced catcher into action last year after trading Kendall away to Chicago. Is it possible they would do the same thing with Powell? This presumption discounts any “mentor” role Kendall might have played in Suzuki’s emergence, and I don’t think Bowen is fits the professorial mold, but with Powell seemingly waiting in the wings, is it possible/likely that Suzuki’s trial by fire is an attempt to showcase a young guy a lot – early in a rebuilding year- in order to swap for more parts? I seem to recall Powell’s name being touted as the catcher of the future a few years back before I had ever heard of Suzuki. Did something happen with Powell for him to end up falling behind Suzuki in the organization’s esteem, or am I completely imagining all this?
by elhefe on
May 14, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Something happened to Powell.
He tore his knee up 2 years in a row and lost out both seasons of development.
by mikev on
May 14, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Or...
Geren’s purposely playing Suzuki to wear him out, give him a cold bat, then flip him and bring up Powell. A bit like Kendall’s situation….......oh well, I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist…
by muffinpryde on
May 14, 2008 8:20 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Suzuki.
What worsens Suzuki’s position is that he is batting leadoff. Not only is he getting up more often than every other hitter, he also has to manage taking his catchers equipment on and off a lot more frequently. It seems like a minor thing, but having to rush through putting on the gear and then immediately running out to the mound after an inning ends without getting a break is going to take a toll on the guy. Especially someone who hasn’t played through an entire MLB season before. Couple that with managing a young pitching staff, it has got to be a huge physical load. I remember him running out to the mound a lot earlier in the season to calm down the pitchers or talk to them after they give up a walk or make a bad pitch. I havn’t noticed it as much lately, and I can see him sitting back there and not running out to the mound thinking “Ugh, is it really worth it to make that jog out there?”
What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.
by KMoAsFan on May 14, 2008 11:54 AM PDT 0 recs
maybe bowen and murphy pissed of geren
or maybe geren is just a bit stupid
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on May 14, 2008 11:55 AM PDT 0 recs
I agree that these guys
(especially Suzuki) should be getting more rest. But I also think it’s not really a big deal.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on May 14, 2008 12:02 PM PDT 0 recs
Catchers vs. infielders
I don’t see why infielders should be getting rest. I like seeing guys play 162 games. But catchers … whole different story. Is this a lesser-known tenet of Moneyball, that catchers should play 150 games?
Brainless Automaton #439
by rubin sierra on
May 14, 2008 2:48 PM PDT
up
0 recs
My take is that Geren must feel that Suzuki handles the pitchers better
Or at least he’s trying to build that relationship. That’s really the only explanation I can think of to justify leaving him in so much, not even replacing him during blow-outs.
by Sacred#24 on May 14, 2008 1:05 PM PDT 0 recs
because of the japan trip
the numbers are alittle skewed. They have had more days off, because they played two games before anyone else. Besides days off in april and may are a joke, give them days off down the stretch when they’re actually tired.
by skalordes on May 14, 2008 1:06 PM PDT 0 recs
If we learned anything from Moneyball...
it’s that playing time is dictated from the front office. My guess is that Bowen isn’t playing because Beane doesn’t want him to play.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on May 14, 2008 1:16 PM PDT 0 recs
+1
Bowen was little more than a bat off the bench and a safety net for dumping Kendall. He filled the same role in San Diego and Chicago before being shipped to Oakland.
by elhefe on
May 14, 2008 1:22 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Not too Worried About Any of This
Ellis is now about to go on the DL, and if you think playing nearly every day for six weeks was the cause of that, fine. I think it’s probably not—since a whole lot of other guys do the same thing.
Suzuki will get a game off this week, and if his BA keeps plummeting, then a) he won’t leadoff and b) he’ll get some more days off. i do think giving him as much experience handling the staff has been a goal of the team, and it’s hard to argue with the results;
As for Crosby, we’re between a rock and a hard place. Murphy is a clear downgrade defensively. I don’t think his past injuries were in any degree related to overwork—we simply don’t have a lot of options here.
by madmongoose on May 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT 0 recs
Of all People...
Geren should know that using your backup catcher more frequently is a good thing. Last night would have been a perfect time to rest Suzuki.
by Colorado Fan on May 14, 2008 2:30 PM PDT 0 recs
I agree about Suzuki, mostly because he simply
looks like he needs a day off, whether it’s physical or mental. A day off Sunday or Tuesday, around the scheduled off-day, would have made a lot of sense.
I disagree about Ellis and Crosby – the number of off-days in the schedule have been plenty for them. If Crosby is oft-injured, all the more reason to play him every game you can when he’s actually healthy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 14, 2008 6:41 PM PDT 0 recs
Crosby is not oft-injured...
Apart from the games he missed because he had a frigging broken hand, he has played something like 133 out of 140 games since the start of last season. None of the missed games have been due to injury.
The problem with Crosby is not injuries, it is that he’s a crappy player and thus does not help the team any whether he’s playing or not.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
May 14, 2008 8:16 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Over his career, Crosby has been injured rather oft
And he has sucked rather muchly as well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on
May 14, 2008 8:20 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Is he? I'd say he's more of occasionally seriously injured ...
not oft injured … He doesn’t get injured that often - he just makes them count - unlike a player like, say, Milton Bradley, who seemingly has something new popping up every other week …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on
May 14, 2008 11:46 PM PDT
up
0 recs
He's oft-missing time due to injuries
and when he’s healthy, he still sucks.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on
May 15, 2008 1:51 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Beane HAS to be ordering Geren to play Suzuki so much
Otherwise, Geren should not just be fired, but beaten severely.
I actually think his slump is, oh, 95% because of the insane amount he’s playing. Maybe they secretly hate Suzuki and want him to die on the field? There isn’t really a logical baseball explanation for it.
“Kurt’s probably going to play again tomorrow,” said Oakland manager Bob Geren, who emphasized probably. “I’m thinking maybe Sunday in Atlanta [for Bowen].”
Bob Geren, I reserve the right to take this back if it’s ever proven this isn’t your doing: I think you’re a piece of crap as a manager and I wish you were managing every other team in the American League so the A’s could have a guaranteed AL Pennant every year. You really, really suck at the whole managing thing.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on May 15, 2008 1:50 AM PDT 0 recs
Geren
I don’t think Geren “sucks” are managing. There are a couple problems I have with him. The biggest is his seeming inability to notice when Joe Blanton is tired, long after 50 people in game threads can figure it out. A much smaller problem is that I think he plays Suzuki a little too much. Lastly, I have a (perhaps irrational, perhaps rational) fear of Alan Embree pitching in games that still matter, and Geren clearly does not. Beyond that, I’ve been very pleased with Geren’s managing.
I’m from Minnesota. Watch the Twins a few games, look at how their lineups are put together, and read some quotes. It does not take long at all to appreciate how good Geren is when you compare him to people like Gardenhire.
by rageon on
May 15, 2008 7:06 AM PDT
up
0 recs
heh
and Gardenhire is pretty well-respected.
the city dumps fill
the junkyards fill
the madhouses fill
the hospitals fill
the graveyards fill
nothing else
fills.
by Cutthemullet on
May 16, 2008 2:45 AM PDT
up
0 recs
















