but I think you may be right. If they let MSweeney hit regularly I think he might really get in the groove. I know Hurt is a slow starter but Sweeney is definitely the better hitter right now IMO.

i think you mean “i wonder if sweeney is a better hitter at this point” not thomas

good article though

4 days a week is plenty of playing time for him IMO.

Frank may be declining, but he’s gotten off to very slow starts the last 2 seasons and he’s heated up each time. I don’t think it’s been long enough to throw in the towel on him yet, but at the same time I have a feeling that Beane may have brought him back with the understanding that he’s got 6 weeks (or some set amount of time) to start hitting the ball with the A’s before he’s given his walking papers.

.237/.342/.348, good for a .690 OPS. That’s Barton’s line thus far. It’s also not far from the unpopular prediction I made for him in the offseason.

At this point in his career, he’s not yet a viable full-time option at first base or DH for a team in playoff contention. It’s hard to swallow a sub .700 OPS combined with less-than-elite defense out of your first baseman.

What seals the argument is the fact that, right now, his backup is a better player. Sweeney has earned the right to play every day with his performance – .322/.381/.448, and an .830 OPS.

As for Thomas, he had gotten on base at a .391 clip entering tonight’s game since joining the A’s. I think it’s too early to give up on him. At that OBP, he has good value even without power.

On a non-statistical note, I think it’s valuable for these young guys to see two veterans who’ve had terrific careers and made over $60 million each in their careers now busting their butts for the league minimum. I think that can have a positive long-term ripple effect on teaching Barton/Suzuki/R. Sweeney/Buck/et al how to carve out terrific careers for themselves and make good decisions. You know, like, not having your iPod in your ear during autograph sessions at team promotional events. :)

For the Barton lovers who hated the idea in the offseason and hate demotion talk now, please consider this thought:
It turns out that OPSing .827 over a full season in the PCL really does indicate that you’re not ready to OPS .750 or better in the bigs, which every first baseman should do. A small victory for Minor League Equivalencies!

Barton is 22. He’s going to get better. I like him as a player and I think he has a great swing. But right now he clearly has not been critical to the team’s success, as evidenced by two facts: a.) His stats are below league-average for his position, and b.) His backup has outplayed him.

So again I come back to the unavoidable point: Now that we know that he’s not critical to the team’s success (at least as long as Sweeney is healthy and able to play first), why not wait until he is ready to hit at level that justifies starting him (say, an .800 OPS)?

If Barton gets sent down now, and stays there for merely a month at least, it accomplishes so many things:
a.) it eases the 25-man roster crunch, which only figures to grow if and when Chavez is ready to play, which could happen by the end of this month.
b.) It enables the A’s to put their best offensive lineup on the field, which undeniably includes Cust, Sweeney, and Thomas right now.
c. It preserves Barton’s service time, which would lead to an extra year of contractual control over him for the A’s. Would you rather have Barton’s age 22, .690-720 OPS season now, when his backup is better…or would you rather have his age 28 season when he’s a fearsome slugger? Think about how nice it would’ve been to have just one more year of Giambi or Tejada before they were free agents.

A lot of people around here hate that service time and money enter the equation. But that’s why I mentioned it last – it’s not the most important issue, but it is a factor to consider. If Barton were hitting well, it wouldn’t be an issue. But the fact that he isn’t, that it makes wonderful financial sense, and especially the fact that his backup is out-playing him all make it a slam dunk to me.

offense. We simply dont have many good “hitters”. Sure we got guys who get on base. And we have been lucky to drive them him at such a high rate. What this team needs is “Hitters”, not “Walkers”.

is frank has about two weeks to get hot. If he doesnt heat up he is a DFAer. (it was worth a shot, but his bat is slow and his speed kills us) Because when Chavy gets back he or hannahan can be the back-up 1st baseman and sweeney can be a full time DH, barton can countinue to work things out at first. Barton can benefit from a drop in the line-up when chavez returns.

that Frank Thomas always has slow starts. Since coming to the A’s though, he has at least compiled a .268 average and a .391 OBP. He’s at least seeing the ball well enough to walk. His OPS+ is 115 since coming to Oakland, which is just a little below the +125 from 2007. June is traditionally his hottest month though, so I’m reserving judgement until mid-June to see whether or not it was a mistake.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=thomafr04

I liked the Thomas signing in the beginning, and it was obviously worth a shot given the lack of power in the A’s lineup. I believe we just played our 40th game tonight. That would put us a quarter way through the season so I think it may be time to stop worrying about the small sample size when it comes to evaluating a player’s performance. There is only so long you can wait for someone to start producing before the lack of production will hurt you in the long run; especially if you’re not watching a developing player. Thomas just isn’t producing like he has in his career, and I’m not entirely sure we can even expect that of him given his age. My biggest gripe is that he is taking up a valuable spot on the roster. As tonight’s base running debacle proved, he just isn’t struggling at the plate, but he is also a liability on the base paths.

Some part of our roster has got to give here. If all goes well Chavez should be up within the next month, so I guess we’ll lose Hannahan or Murphy at that time. Travis Buck is also waiting in the wings down in Sacramento. Davis could be demoted (I think), or RSweeney when he comes back, but I would rather see Thomas leave so Cust can get back to strictly DHing. Our outfield D is atrocious, and having an outfield of Buck, Davis, and Brown with RSweeney to back them up seems like a pretty solid plan, or at least an upgrade from the current situation. Also, lets not forget about CarGon, it seems everyone has forgot about him, but he’ll probably deserve a call-up sooner or later as well. I’m not sure how any of those roster moves will end up, and they may just as well work themselves out through player injuries and the like regardless, but I’d much rather see Barton, CarGon, or Buck laboring away and getting experience than Thomas constantly taking playing time for young guys who you should be maturing in a rebuilding year. Thomas could almost theoretically be setting this team back an extra year as he takes playing time from our younger developing players.

This could all be a mute point if Thomas starts hitting, but I’m not sure there is anyway he can get hot enough for long enough to match the numbers we’ve been accustomed to seeing him put up his whole career.

I love The Big Hurt and what he brings as a presence to the lineup. However, I have to say after watching him since re-joined the A’s, he is definitely showing some sings of decline. A couple of times in the game earlier this evening he really looked like he was struggling to find the ball at the plate. He also looked extremely frustrated in the dugout afterwards. Also, I want to know if anyone else thinks that Rajai Davis might be worth a look at the leadoff position? Until he proves that he can’t handle it or just does not get on base enought to set the table, why not give him a chance to see what he can do at the top of the lineup? It’s not like the A’s are crawling with top of the order guys!

Suzuki is really cooling off at this point and I’m kinda weary of the A”s lineup as is these days….........

Any thoughts?

People need to remember this is a rebuilding year. We should not be doing things like sitting Daric Barton so we can get Mike Sweeney’s bat in the lineup because we’re still contending on May 13.

Mike Sweeney hit .260/.315/.404 last year. He hit .258/.349/.438 the year before that. All of a sudden he’s good again for 88 at bats and everything’s magically fixed? He’s not even slugging .450. This is our savior? This is why Daric Barton should be banished to the bench to rot?

Giving guys like Suzuki and Barton every chance to succeed should be our first priority. The little run to begin the season is nice and fun, but we shouldn’t get caught up chasing fool’s gold.

Through 40 games in 2006, Frank Thomas was hitting a robust .188/.303/.393.

Small. Sample. Size.

I am sure by the all star break we will have the answer. If Frank is tankin, the A’s will let him ride the bench.

We’re scoring a lot of runs … though in very non-traditional ways. We have NO power whatsoever and yet by virtue of our ability to get on base at an amazing rate, we seem to get enough runners on that we have to drive in SOME of them, even without power enough to do so. At first I thought it was luck, and that it would revert to the mean, but I’m not sure this is true. It’s possible that when you walk as often as we do, good things are likely to happen.

That being said, Big Frank, even without power, is a great benefit to this team right now. He walks like crazy and he’s always on base. Anyone who OBP’s at close to a .400 clip is worth keeping in the lineup. If he hits for ANY power (which he hasn’t yet), he’ll be a tremendous asset. Think about Cust: earlier in the year when he wasn’t hitting at all, he was still valuable. Now that he’s hitting better than he was, and with his customary power, he’s our best hitter. That’s the power of OBP, and the reason why Big Frank should get the opportunity to hit in our lineup.

The power will likely come around, but even without it, he’s good for the A’s.

I’m sorry, but this entire post is silly.

He’s been AWFUL and his EQA is .288. Mike Sweeney has far exceeded reasonable expectations and his is a terrific .303. If Frank still doesn’t have a homer with the A’s a month from now, then maybe this is something to worry about.

yes

Than Cust in LF and Thomas at DH.

Blez, I’d suggest adding a poll to see how much more time AN’ers think Frank should be given—keep him all year regardless of his stats, keep him through the ASB, through June, through May, or DFA him immediately.

Personally, I’d give him through June, and if he’s still not generating isoSLG, cut him loose.

FWIW, I think signing Sweeney (or Brown, for that matter) was more of a “mistake” than claiming Frank—although I do think Frank is pretty much done, the risk:reward ratio was so low that we couldn’t pass him up.

Barton has been struggling so it is not as if they are taking anyone else’s productivity away. I would let the Thomas thing play out for the rest of the season and see how it goes

done, he just doesn’t look the same anymore, look I know he started slow 2 years ago with the A’s but still he’s just trying too hard! He’s a plug in the bases and I much rather see Mike Sweeney as DH he strikes out less only 2x this season! I just knew this would happen. I’ve never really liked Frank Thomas just because he’s a freakin diva and should get benched or much rather released.

That wasn’t really the point of this. I understand why Beane picked up Thomas. First, he was cheap. Second, he’s proven he can do one thing consistently throughout his career and that’s hit home runs, something the A’s lineup at the time sorely lacked. I don’t blame the A’s for doing it. It was a smart move at the time.

And truthfully, you have to believe that Thomas’ power numbers will come around sooner rather than later. The problem is that even if he starts to get in a groove over the next two games, he’s going to have to sit for three in Atlanta and then in June he’s going to have six more games that he’s going to have to sit for at NL parks. I also don’t like the idea of Barton not getting enough time in the field to improve both hitting and fielding and having to rotate him and Sweeney makes it so that Barton spends more time on the bench than I’d like.

I don’t really have the answer. I love Frank Thomas and hope that his bat comes to life and very soon because as we saw in 2006, his bat can make all the difference in the world. But I also think Mike Sweeney looks like he has his old stroke back and probably needs more ABs than he’s currently getting. The problem is that he can’t get them with Thomas in the fold and Barton needing to develop into a great ML player for the long-term health of the franchise. But if the team is really trying to win now, it probably should send Barton down and play Sweeney every day at least until he gets injured (which is likely) or proves the small sample size was an aberration and he’s actually not a very good hitter any more. I just quiver thinking of the A’s defense being Cust in left and Mike Sweeney at first. Ugh.

IMO (and as far as I know this is not quantifiable) Geren has done a remarkable job of bench management (except for Bowen…I don’t get that). I think there’s a BIG difference between being a bench player on a Macha team, where you’re almost never going to get a PA or any playing time, versus this team, where even if you start out on the bench, odds are you’ll end up in the game sooner or later. I think this helps keep everyone more in the game and more content and productive overall. The Thomas acquisition has made this job harder for Geren, and reduced everyone’s playing time, but at the same time, the way it’s being handled right now, no one (except, again, Bowen) is just rotting on the bench.

Meanwhile, the options for players to be put in specialized roles that maximize their chances for success late in the game I think are quite good. The lament I see a lot is that we don’t have any superstar players. I agree with this generally, and I think the way to handle this is to be really good at putting players in roles and situations where they’re most likely to succeed.

Maybe this is the new undervalued commodity—mixing players who are mediocre overall but seem to excel in certain specific roles.

[apologies for the scatteredness of this; it’s mostly just a ramble of thoughts with no real agenda]

NO…

If we think we have a contender, then as A’s have always done, spend the 1st 1/3 of the season to figure out what team we have. This means we try to get everyone some chance to play, and see who can stick. So playing Thomas makes sense. Platooning Barton and Sweeney also makes sense. We are not trying to make a playoff push in May here. Give ‘em a chance to prove themselves. With the high turn-over in the off season and Chavez’s injury, I think this evaluation process should take longer than past years. As long as we are hanging around, I’m OK with letting Barton, Thomas all get significant at bats until June.