CarGo Tracking Number
by Zonis on Apr 30, 2008 3:13 PM PDT
88 comments
The Mariners finally decided to break down and do what Lookout Landing and the USS Mariner have been begging for for quite some time (though quite a few would rather they had waited some 10 days since they waited so long), and called up Catcher Jeff Clement and Right Fielder Wladimire Balentien, while designating Gregg Norton and Brad Wilkerson for assignment. Both are instant upgrades in their respective spots in the lineup. Jose Vidro will be relegated to Pinch Hitting Duties from the Bench, with Jeff Clement becoming the everyday Designated Hitter, and Wlad will take over Right Field duties for Wilkerson.
Instantly, the Mariners lineup became a whole lot better, as Wlad, while not a Superstar, should provide (at least in time) average Right Field production, and should at least provide more power than the blackhole that was the remains of Brad Wilkerson. Meanwhile, Jeff Clement would be a Superstar Catcher, if not for the Mariners foolishly signing Kenji Johjima to an extension. Even so, the way he was hitting in Triple A (.397/.535/.692/1.227... no that is NOT a misprint, and yes thats from a Catcher... whom the Mariners intentionally blocked for the next three years) suggests that he will be a definite force in their lineup.
The question becomes; will, in approximately 10 days, when calling up a player will essentially grant the team an extra year of control over that player, comes, will the A's decide to call up Carlos Gonzalez.
At the same time, by the very latest, Travis Buck will have returned from the Disabled List. In fact, it might be a good idea to keep him down there in Sacramento on rehab assignments and have him come up with CarGon. He will be able to learn the outfield with CarGon, and visa versa, as well as, and more importantly, get out of his mega slump, to which we might have all forgotten since he went down on the DL. Though for all we know, the shin splints might be the very source of his struggles.
And for the Linden-Lovers, if Linden is still hitting by that date, perhaps its time for an all new outfield? But I digress.
Calling up Carlos Gonzalez and activating Travis Buck will mean that someone will have to go. It could mean the end of Mike Sweeney, though from what I can tell he is our only backup First Baseman and a good platoon partner for the meanwhile with Barton, if Barton (see: our offense) needs it. It could mean the end of the Rajai Davis experiment, though sending him down would risk losing him on waivers. Though granted, since he got all the way down to us before getting claimed, there might be a good chance he clears. It could also mean that Ryan Sweeney or Chris Denorfia, likely Sweeney, will be sent down to the minors.
We also have the issue of what to do with Jack Cust if he has not broken out of his slump, though I think a simple solution is most obvious; a platoon with Emil Brown.
So let us say that, come May 11th, all is well with the world, Rich Harden somehow survives his rehab starts, CarGon's ankle is fine, Travis Buck is off crutches and things go as they might, would AN be happy with this roster?
Roster:
C1 R Kurt Suzuki
1B L Daric Barton
2B R Mark Ellis
3B L Jack Hanahan
SS R Bobby Crosby
LF L Jack Cust
CF L Carlos Gonzalez
RF L Travis Buck
DH R Frank Thomas
C2 S Rob Bowen
1B R Mike Sweeney
CF R Chris Denorfia
SS R Donnie Murphy
OF R Emil Brown
RHP Joe Blanton
RHP Rich Harden
RHP Chad Gaudin
RHP Justin Duchscherer
LHP Greg Smith
RHP Huston Street
RHP Santiago Casilla
RHP Andrew Brown
LHP Alan Embree
LHP Dana Eveland
RHP Joey Devine
I chose Smith in the rotation over Eveland because Eveland has bullpen experience, has a lower career high innings pitched, and has not gone as deep in games as Smith. Smith has also not allowed more than three runs in a game thus far.
Lineup vs RHP
RF L Travis Buck
C1 R Kurt Suzuki
1B L Daric Barton
DH R Frank Thomas
CF L Carlos Gonzalez
SS R Bobby Crosby
LF L Jack Cust
2B R Mark Ellis
3B L Jack Hanahan
Lineups vs LHP
C1 R Kurt Suzuki
2B R Mark Ellis
1B L Daric Barton
DH R Frank Thomas
LF R Emil Brown
RF L Travis Buck
SS R Bobby Crosby
2B R Donnie Murphy
0 recs |
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Id rather have Duke back
in the pen than Eveland.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll see how Duke does in his next few starts
and if he can stay healthy, but…
1. We already have a very good bullpen, don’t really need him there.
2. He is much better than Eveland and Smith. His numbers the last several years in the majors (though as a reliever) are better than Eveland’s and Smith’s in the minors, let alone adjusting those numbers for the majors. He has much better stuff than Smith, and much better command than Eveland.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Apr 30, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love Duke..
hes prob not in our long term plans like Evenland/Smith are. So Id rather see Eveland/Smith get the bulk of starts.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Duke can be one of our most effective starters
not sure why you don’t think he’s “long term.” I’d feel much more confident with Duke starting a game we needed vs. Eveland or Smith….
VacaAsFan
by Vacafan on Apr 30, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ser
vice
Time.
Duke will be a free agent after 2009. Anyone who will be a free agent after 2009 (or 2008, for that matter) is, practically by definition, not part of the A’s long term plans.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ding Ding Ding!
Winner.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let him walk for nothing?
Or build his value back up as a starter and see what happens. His trade value will increase more if he’s an above average starter (which I think he can be) and if there’s a chance it’ll help his health then that’s just more incentive.
by Sacred#24 on May 1, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I don't think they should move Duke to the bullpen
I think they should either go to a six-man rotation or rotate Eveland out of the rotation for a few weeks to protect his arm from overuse this year.
I was just saying why Duke wasn’t in the team’s long-term plans.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on May 1, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the 6 man rotation idea
I think it’s pretty much common knowledge that Duke isn’t going to be able to pitch 200 innings this year. In addition, we don’t know how well Gaudin, Eveland and Smith are going to hold up either. The 6 man rotation, as was stated above, would allow these guys more rest and fewer innings pitched over the course of the season. The only guy we can comfortably say is able to pitch that many innings is Joe Blanton, but we don’t even know if he is going to be here past the trade deadline. This idea also makes me wonder if more rest would help out Blanton as well. Stay with me on this one, because this is just a thought. For the most part, Blanton pitches very well into the 6th or 7th inning. It’s when someone (Geren) decides to run him back out onto the field late in the game that he seems to get hammered. To me, this seems like a classic case of him getting tired. Maybe an extra day’s rest might help him out as the season winds down, helping cut down on the fatigue most players experience later in the season. Hell, it might even allow him to have enough extra rest that he isn’t so tired late in the game. No one really knows for sure if it would work or not, but hey, i don’t see any harm in trying it.
"Put some ice on it. After that, there's nothing a few beers won't take care of. " -Pink
by OrlandoAsFan on May 1, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible idea
Look at the schedule. The A’s have one day off per week for the next eight weeks. A six-man rotation would mean everybody gets to pitch once a week. That’s just ludicrous.
On the contrary, the schedule almost makes a five-man rotation into the equivalent of a six-man rotation with respect to the amount of rest the pitchers get. I’d be more inclined to go with a 4-man rotation with a spot starter until that 8-week stretch is up, with the spot starter being whomever the A’s think most needs his innings kept down a bit this year (and even that arrangement only lasts until Harden breaks down, so it’s hardly likely even to last out the 8 weeks).
by Faust on May 1, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers in Japan pitch once a week
It doesn’t appear to damage them irreparably.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on May 1, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point being?
Do you really think it’s an optimal strategy to take an entire starting staff (one that’s been doing a phenomenal job on the usual every-five-days rhythm) and yank it that far out of everyone’s accustomed comfort zone? Rather than do the usual thing of keeping most of the staff on a normal rhythm and just make one player keep to an odd rhythm?
I’m all for challenging conventional wisdom, but having an entire staff on a once-a-week schedule – well, nobody does this, nobody whatsoever, at all, ever – and I have to think that that radical a change from the norm, with little reason other than it seems kinda cool, is pretty silly.
You’re smart, young, and rather argumentative by nature, so I think you’re just being a bit of a devil’s advocate here. If you were really tasked with the responsibility, you wouldn’t do it that way. To veer that far outside of normal practice, you’d need a stronger reason than “hey, everyone does it in Japan!”
by Faust on May 1, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that far outside of normal practice
In fact, it’s not at all outside of normal practice. Pitchers make starts on 5 days rest all the time. There are off days in the season. Usually an off day causes 4 or even all 5 pitchers to go an extra day between starts.
Compare to starts on 3 days’ rest, which most pitchers do only in dire circumstances.
The reason why nobody does it is because it’s not optimal for a normal pitching staff—where the #6 starter is frigging garbage. The A’s don’t have that problem—they have essentially 5 #3 starters, plus Harden.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on May 1, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leo Mazzone made a living
trying to simulate the workload of 4 man rotations in a 5 man rotation in Atlanta.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on May 1, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case you're forgiven...
But I’m not sold on the 6-man rotation. I just think it would be too taxing on the bullpen- assuming it would mean one less reliever. I guess it could theoretically mean higher pitch-count limits but I’m not sure if it works that way in practice.
by Sacred#24 on May 1, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Smith’s results are still a little surprising, so I would argue until the last month Smith wasn’t neccesarily a huge part of the future plans, and judging be his minor league track record he could still come back down to Earth. That said, I am very impressed with the way he’s throwing the ball.
At some point though, with all else being roughly equal, loyalty starts to become an issue. Duke pitched without complaint extremely well out of the bullpen for several years of his prime, pitching well enough that many other teams would have stuck him in the rotation a long time ago. The guy has always wanted to be a starter, has always had starter’s stuff, and has put time in, and has the track record that you aren’t making a silly loyalty based decision, but a decision out of loyalty because not only is it the right thing to do, but because he is good.
That and starters are always worth more in trade at the deadline than relievers.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i.e.
if you were sending Duke to the bullpen to win (significantly) more baseball games, that’s ok…
but if you were sending him to the bullpen as a matter of convenience, that’s a little messed up.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather them go to a 6-man rotation
It would spread the innings around more, keep guys rested over the long season and let’s face it, Harden will get hurt again, so temporary rest then back to the 5 man deal.
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by DMOAS on Apr 30, 2008 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure why you'd want Denorfia
over R. Sweeney … IMO, Denorfia oughta be the first guy out when we get another OF’er.
VacaAsFan
by Vacafan on Apr 30, 2008 3:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Denorfia=much better than Sweeney
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Apr 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, sweeney should
denorfia’s better defensively.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Apr 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and offensively
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Apr 30, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...because he doesn't suck?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone please tell me
how Denorfia has impressed ??? Sweeney has played good defense, and come up with some big hits … maybe I’m imagining things again.
VacaAsFan
by Vacafan on Apr 30, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The AN consensus
to which I concur, is that Denorfia has been substantially superior as a defender and has gotten on base a lot more. Neither has hit with any power this season to date.
I would not say that Denorfia has impressed with anything other than, I dunno, scrappiness, so much as I would say that Sweeney has been completely UNimpressive in every aspect of the game.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney is NOT a true CFer at this point
His range is lacking, as we’ve seen with balls dropping in front of him that should be caught. His line has been .254/.284/.317 for an OPS+ of 70. Not impressive. Denorfia- .271/.352/.313, more impressive with an OPS+ of 90. Denorfia is the more developed prospect to date, as shown from his high OBP and good minor league numbers. He should be playing over Sweeney. Sweeney should be in AAA right now.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denorfia has a good BA, a good OBP,
and plays CF like he belongs in CF, while Sweeney looks like corner OFer trying to play CF and has a poor BA with few walks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 30, 2008 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way PT
I know you think Crosby sucks … definitely think Emil Brown sucks … Ryan Sweeney sucks … you think Hannahan sucks … I know you think Street is ok … anyone else on your favorite team you think can play??!
VacaAsFan
by Vacafan on Apr 30, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're just asking who I think is a good player?
Well, as of right now basically the whole pitching staff is good, with the debatable exception of Embree (and Calero, if he’s not dead yet) and, I guess, Braden. Barton is good, Suzuki is quite good, Ellis is a borderline All-Star. The outfield’s a bit of a mess right now but I think Denorfia will eventually turn out to be good. Buck is certainly good when he’s healthy. Thomas is still good. Obviously there are tons of guys in the minors I think are good, which I won’t go into here because it would make this 3 times as long.
Happy?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
crosby is good when defense factored.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not if he regresses all the way back to '06-07 offensive levels
I’m not saying he will, but that’s likelier than his maintaining the productivity of the first 3 weeks of the season.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 30, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that's because
crosby does suck. hannahan does suck. brown is playing well right now in terms of RBI, but not really much else. street is better than okay. ryan sweeney is not ready yet, he’s hitting .254 with an ops+ of 70.
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 30, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because even if they were equal
Denorfia is RIght Handed.
by Zonis on Apr 30, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
how can we mess with super lineup?????
by muffinpryde on Apr 30, 2008 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason why the 10 days thing is relevant
is that Wlad and Clement already have service time from cups of coffee last September.
C-Gon does not. The A’s could call him up today and he would still not be a free agent until the 2015 season. If they were going to call him up as soon as they could retain him through 2014, they’d have already done so.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Beane has never really held
down any prospects longer than he should have that I can remember. So whenever he is called up I trust hes up to stay and a little more seasoning in AAA cant hurt. However I still expect him to be up by at least end of June. Same prob goes for Gio as well.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about Gio
I think he will still be pitching in the minors barring injuries to the starters. He’s more of a 2009 guy right now with Smith and Eveland pitching so well.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way Gio is up for more than a cup of coffee this year
is if the starters get injured (badly) or traded away.
As baseb says, he’s more of a 2009 guy. If he was utterly dominating AAA, it would be a different story, but right now he’s only holding serve. (Good enough, for his age, but not forcing a promotion.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that yes...
He will be 23 before the season is over, so hes not young. Theres many scenarios where I see him up this year before Sept. Blanton traded/Harden and Duke Hurt/Duke back to pen, or like you guys said another injury. Gio really only had one bad start so hes pitching pretty well.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
23 isn't young?
He’s more than a year younger than Clay Buchholz. He’s 4 days older than Joba Chamberlain.
He’s got plenty of time to master AAA before moving on to the bigs. He’ll see Oakland this season—he’d have to be added to the 40-man to protect him from Rule 5 anyway—but I doubt it will be before the rosters expand.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
23-24 is right about
the average age for players to make the majors. Gio has 500 inning in the minors. While Joba had 88inning and Clay had 285. So hes got alot of experience over them.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
And right now he’s 22. Assuming he has a rotation spot next April, he will be making his debut at the age of 23, which is, as you say, pretty normal.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what are we debating? Haha.
I just think that if we as a team regress and Blanton is Traded, while Harden or Duke is hurt, Gio could be pitching with the big club this year.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not young?
Crap, then I must be bordering on obsolete!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Apr 30, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring out your dead!
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will C-Gon even be back on the field in 10 days? He didn't play
today either.
by theblackpearl on Apr 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The better Sweeney looks, the more Cust starts looking like the odd man out of a crowded OF
I mean I’m back and forth on this every day, but with Sweeney being able to play 1B, hit right handed, and look like 2003-2005 Mike Sweeney, the more Cust is really starting to get on the hotseat for his roster spot for when CarGon forces his promotion.
But really, the way Buck has been playing and the way the OF is shaping up, it’s Buck who’s looking at an extended stay in the minors when healthy. A 5-man OF of Brown/Cargon/Cust/Denorfia/Davis is looking pretty optimal. He was looking just overmatched, and of those guys, he’d be pressing Brown for playing time as far as I can tell, and the only way he’s gonna do that is by lighting up Triple A for a couple months once healthy.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm still not convinced of Sweeney's power
He can hit for average sure, but he barely cleared the left field wall on his two HRs. I don’t think he has much left in the tank in terms of power production at this point, and Cust is due to start hitting well soon. I’d also rather have Buck spend some time recuperating, but when he’s healthy, I think he’s shown enough to start from last season’s production. Davis isn’t much more than an average 5th outfielder at this point (absolutely no power), and it makes more sense to have Brown and Denorfia as our 4th and 5th outfielders respectively for platoon work and days off for the normal OF. Having the Brown/Cargon/Cust/Denorfia/Buck outfield is outstanding, and gives us one of the deepest outfields in the game.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's never had exceptional HR power
he’s a 25 HR guy who hits tons of doubles and barely gets balls over the fence, even in his prime. i don’t think he’s ever hit 30 even?
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'll hit more than 10 HR with 500 ABs though
That’s very little power.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also add
That amount of HRs for a DH/poor fielding 1B is bad. He’ll be lucky to slug .430 this year.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, we'll see
FWIW i think he’s owed some doubles by the baseball gods this year as well ;). But anyhow he’ll either come back to Earth and be expendable once again, but he does have a great track record, his OBP shows that there is something there this year that wasnt there the past two years (health, most likely), and his track record shows with the OBP numbers he’s putting up now, the slugging will be there. That’s enough for him to earn PT and roster security over Cust, until at least Cust catches him in HRs ;) But I still think there is room for everybody once we get over the assumption that Buck is coming back to the majors.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck will back when he's healthy
Like I said in the other subthread, he’s the best OF we have numbers wise. It would be ridiculous to send him to the minors when he has nothing to prove. At that point, Davis is expendable, as is Mike Sweeney.
Sweeney is not going to keep putting up these numbers, and he does not look healthy at all. He won’t play over Thomas at DH either. He’s not even a decent option at 1B. I don’t know why people think he’s a good option at the plate or in the field; he’s playing on one leg and a bad back. Just watch while he favors one leg over the other while running, the guy is playing through injuries. He has no power, and all he can do is hit for average; his OBP will decline because pitchers and managers know his power is gone. He’s not even a doubles hitter anymore, he will hit at most 30 in 500 AB. I’m sorry, but he’s not a good option. I like the guy, but he’s just done because of health. And it makes no sense to carry him when we have Brown as a RH bat coming off the bench with this roster.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
he’s not the best OF we have numberwise based on 2007, Cust is. In 2005 and 2006 Brown was roughly comparable to Buck in 2007, with the distinction that in 2008 Brown is actually producing. I agree that Buck has potential to be better than Brown, but at this point its not a reasonable sell to sit Brown in favor of Buck.
The reason I have optimism for Sweeney is his high OBP, and the fact that even though he looks like he’s running with a flat tire, he still keeps on running out grounders really hard and surviving to stay in the game and play the next day. Some guys get older, and figure out how to get by on their declining bodies with adjustments. If Sweeney starts to suck, you can make that move, but right now his numbers aren’t “out of line” for anything he’s done in his career.
Buck is another small sample size guy. He did well his rookie year, but lots of players like him regress. And it this point, at a young age, he might just have to prove himself again, and be all the better for it.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney's BA and BBs are out of line with what he's done the past 5 years
He needs to hit at least .290-.300 to have a good OBP (even forgetting about power), and I bet he’ll do worse than that.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Apr 30, 2008 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but its worth finding out if we have 2003-2005 sweeney, because even though he wasnt as good as 2000-2002 sweeney, he was still pretty good. 2006-2007 sweeney might = 2004-2005 Frank Thomas or = 1993-1994 Mc
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brown is 33
Buck is 24.
I rest my case.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like buck more than brown
but proposing scenarios right now where buck plays over brown are unrealistic. we have to wait for the slump to come in ;-)
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh also
I think Davis is very useful as a 5th OFer. It doesn’t really matter that he has no power, because really I don’t want him batting all that much. I want him to PR a lot and play defense!
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why not have Denorfia instead?
He is fast, plays good D, and can actually hit. Having a designated pinch runner on the bench is a waste of a roster spot for this team when we could have another RH bat off the bench.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Denorfia is a 3rd-4th outfielder. Davis is a 5th outfielder.
The A’s don’t have room right now to carry a guy who has a ceiling of a 5th outfielder. Perversely, he’s actually more attractive to a playoff-level team which has defined needs (a la Kielty last season) than to a rebuilding team which is trying out players to fill multiple holes.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, i want denorfia!
once again…MrRickyG’s 5 man outfield of:
1.) Emil Brown
2.) Jack Cust
3.) Carlos Gonzalez
4.) Chris Denorfia
5.) Rajai Davis
The debate was over whether Davis or Buck should be the 5th OF.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis instead of Buck?
WHY???? Buck should be starting. He’s been playing hurt, and when healthy, he’s the best OF we have. He should have plenty of time in the next couple weeks to get better, but once he’s off the DL, no way should Davis be on this team.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 30, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a debate
If Buck is not on the DL, he is (I approximate) 903124171 times better than Rajai Davis.
And if he is on the DL, there are plenty of other guys who are worth looks as well, starting with Jeff Fiorentino.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as 5th option?
5th OF is a roleplayer type. 5th OFers don’t bat much whether they are good or not. The 5th OFer in the OF I imagine is a specialist for defense and running. I don’t really understand the love affair with Buck. Maybe it’s that I was out of the Bay Area and didn’t see these one season wonders, but I mean they were both very productive, but have shown this year a very common regression to the mean. I mean if Buck proves in AAA he’s healthy for like a month, that’s fine, but the guy was healthy to start the year and still couldn’t hit. Then maybe he starts challenging for the 4th/5th spot, and hopefully Brown comes through with a clutch timely slump so its politically feasible to bench him. Otherwise, I don’t understand why you expect tons out of Buck…
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck is 3-4 years younger
and has outhit Davis by a TON every single year of his career. He is absurdly better than Davis.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Apr 30, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you are asking me who id prefer in april and may of 2008 to be my 5th OF
I want Davis for the short term to come in and PR and play late innings defense while Travis Buck fixes his shit in Triple A. He EQAs .280, .280, and .260 in the minors and totally skipped AAA, went to the majors and EQA’d .312.
Who will have a longer , more productive career with the bat? Of course it’s not even close. But there was something wrong with Buck even before the shin splints, and I’m inclined to think a small sample of .312 EQA, though very encouraging as an indicator of what he will eventually be able to do, is a little bit too much to ask for right now. So FOR RIGHT NOW, not for the long term, I’m perfectly happy with Davis being a runner for Thomas and a defender for Cust while Buck works out his issues, Denorfia holds down the RH OF Bat off the bench role, and Brown starts in RF, with Cargon getting his shot once the service time crap straightens out.
I’m really NOT trying to argue that Davis is better than Buck, I’m saying given the way Buck is playing, and the other guys are playing, Davis has a more useful role on the major league club in the near-term, while Buck would be best served getting healthy and slump-busting in AAA (where he skipped to begin with). It all seems pretty reasonable to me.
I repeat, I’m not saying release Buck, give Rajai Davis 600 ABs and try to get him 100 SBs and 100 bunt singles. I’m just saying Buck IS young, had problems other than the splints, and needs everyday playing time more than Davis. And what Davis DOES have to offer, is very valuable from the 5th OF. OK?
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Buck is a frigging hitter
and Davis isn’t.
If you didn’t watch much of him before this year, I can understand somewhat the puzzlement. Let me put it in these terms—Buck is, approach-wise, probably one of the 5 best doubles hitters I’ve ever seen. Ever. When he is hitting at full strength, he absolutely pummels line drives all over the place. He is extremely remeniscent of a younger Magglio Ordonez, who if you’ll recall has also had some injury issues in his time.
You don’t give up a talent like that for Rajai Davis. It would be insane. If Buck is healthy, there is basically no excuse for not putting him in your starting lineup.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*reminiscent
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
did it magically appear last year?
I’m not giving up a talent like Buck’s for Davis’. I just want Buck to be ready to play every day. I guess these are the sorts of arguments that come up when you have 3 DH’s on the roster, one of whom hit really well last year but is hitting like crap this year and the other two who are old and lovable :-).
If Buck is Ordonez-esque, and has sucked because he’s had the splints all year fine. But his approach sucked at the beginning of the year, and I got the impression of sophomore slumpitis. His track record is great I guess, I just think starting in Triple A for him would be better for him and less disruptive then sporadic playing time with the big club. But fine, just start him and bench Cust. Brown/Cargon/Bucklio Ordonez sounds great to me. And what would sound even better would be a well timed clutch slump out of Brown, and a breakout of cust.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on Apr 30, 2008 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im still struggling to even figure out
why Davis is even on this team and taking ABs away from our future. To me when healthy our OF should be Cust/Sweeney/Buck with EMail as 4th OF and Deno 5th.
When will then be now? Soon.
by Syphon on Apr 30, 2008 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Buck did have a sophomore slump...
the thing is, he broke out of it in Toronto. But not long after doing so, he then started suffering big-time from the shin splints which sapped his bat again. I think the two “slumps” were separate issues.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The debate was over whether Davis or Buck should be the 5th OF."
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Apr 30, 2008 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
I don’t know why that pic amuses me so, but it does.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Apr 30, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like i said
fail pictures are the best
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 30, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney at 1B isn't much less of a liability than Cust in LF
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 30, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about this OF?
LF Bonds
CF Gonzalez
RF Cust
OF Buck (the designated Payton, except better, in that he plays everyday as OFers rest or our beat up)
OF Brown (if no one trades for him enticed by all those amazing RBI’s, it’s a skill, we swear; he swings early in the count)
If Cust (or Buck or Bonds or Brown) struggles, we already have many quality backups not to mention Denorfia, Davis, and Linden waiting and hoping in Sacramento.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Apr 30, 2008 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My spider sense tells me
that a lineup with no center fielders at all on it is probably not a good idea.
Pretty sure the pitching staff would go on strike if they had to play in front of that group.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 30, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the defense would be horrible
In my perfect scenario we trade Emil for a good prospect (unlikely, I know; maybe if we combine him with a bullpen arm like Embree….Lillibrige in Atlanta? Damn, that would be nice even if it was Brown instead of Embree). Then we can call up Davis or Denorfia and they can be late inning replacements.
However, if Buck and CarGo start at the same time that’s not that bad an OF defensively: that’s two average defenders. Plenty of teams deal with a bad fielding LF.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Apr 30, 2008 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone values Emil enough to send a prospect
Teams know he’s a good 4th OF, but that’s all he is. Most teams don’t have this many question marks in the outfield. Davis will most likely be claimed off waivers for his speed. Who’s going to play CF with CarGo taking a day off? Buck doesn’t have the range to do so, and neither does Brown. I thought Denorfia was out of options as well, I could be wrong. Bonds will not get claimed this year due to his legal problems.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on May 1, 2008 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well you can always get a C- prospect from another team who Billy values as a B+
:)
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on May 1, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is going to send a prospect for a 33 year old outfielder
No matter how bad the prospect is in their eyes. The fact that Emil Brown wasn’t signed this year by another team despite his decent numbers for a 4th/5th outfielder type proves my point. Nobody else values him. It’s not as though Brown is hitting .330 with 5 HRs, he’s just happened to get his hits with runners on base.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on May 1, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i mean whatever
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
by mrrickyg on May 1, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
davis
might get claimed, based on what he’s been doing lately. he’s out of options, that’s why we got him in the first place
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 30, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone else notice
the lineup against lefties only has 8 players (no CF or 3B) and has 2 2Bs in it? I assume Murphy is the 3B, but who would be playing CF? Gonzo only against righties or is he playing everyday?
by Zabat on May 1, 2008 10:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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