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Anybody else tired of the Jack Cust Experiment?

Tiny by petitceebee on

Maybe the A's brass has to accept the possibility that Cust's 2007 was an anomaly or an aberration.  He wouldn't be the first. Chris Shelton?  Kevin Maas?  Why don't we go ahead and sign Barry Bonds?  Love him or hate him, I think he would bring a major presence to the batting order.  Or even bring up the Marabino Patrol Craft?  I'm tired of the strikeouts I know is inevitable every time he's up in a crucial situation.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see opposing pitchers start to pitch around the guy in front of him just to get to him!  I don't know about you but I like a Bonds, Thomas, Chavez middle of the lineup.

While we're at it I have a few more ideas. 

How about playing Davis everyday in center field and leading off.  We'll have an excellent lead off hitter with speed and solid defense to compensate for Cust (Bonds?) in left.  I don't think he can be any worse then Ryan Sweeney or Chris Denorfia.  And so far I like what I've seen from him.  Emil Brown could be the other corner outfielder, send down Ryan Sweeney and Buck and Denorfia could be the backups.

We could keep Mike Sweeney to backup Barton and provide a lively bat off the bench and start against the occasional left handers.

And finally, I'd switch Huston Street and Santiago Casilla's roles.  In fact I would only like to see Street come in to get the occasional tough right handers and back him up with Embree, a la Gene Nelson - Rick Honeycutt style.

I never expected us to be in contention at the end of April, much less in first place, but we have a chance to actually make a run at it now, why not go for the whole thing?

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no

i’m not tired of it. we’re 25 games in. maybe if he’s gotten no better in mid or late may.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 27, 2008 8:40 PM PDT   0 recs

+1

Excellent post mrrick.

by IM4Oakgal on Apr 27, 2008 9:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I've made the argument many times before

But if Cust can put up similar numbers to last season (and I still see no reason why he won’t. The reason he’s been bad so far is because he’s not hitting fastballs well. He will.), he’s less than 1 win worse than Bonds if Bonds is 100%, playing every day, and still as productive as he always was.

Bonds will cost between 20 and 30 times more than Cust, and who knows how damaging the PR hit would be.

He’s absolutely not worth it, especially with Thomas on the team now. If Cust doesn’t break his slump, the answer is an outfielder within the system, not a broken down clubhouse cancer who may or may not handle a transition to a superior league very well. And who will never accept a reasonable contract offer.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:33 AM PDT to parent up   1 recs

By

Batting Runs, Cust produced 33 offensive runs above average last year in 124 games. Bonds produced 46.1 offensive runs above average in 126 games.

By Batting runs above average from Baseball Prospectus, Bonds 43 runs above average, Cust 31.

As for that tired and lazy superior league argument, over his career, Bonds has hit 310-501-653, 1.153 OPS against the AL. His total career line 298-444-607, 1.051 OPS. His tOPS+ against the AL is 120, which means he hits BETTER against the AL relative to the rest of his career.

But what about recently? Last 5 years against the AL:

385-549-942,1.492 OPS, tOPS+ 130 in 2003,

304-566-587, 1.153 OPS, tOPS+ 65 in 2004,

injured in 2005,

273-529-667, 1.196 OPS, tOPS+ 139 in 2006,

372-550-605,1.155 OPS, tOPS+ 122 in 2007.

What this means is that, out of the last 5 years, he was injured one year 2005. In one other year, 2004, he struggled against the AL. In 3 out of the other 5 years, 2003, 2006, 2007, he was actually BETTER against the superior league. BETTER.

His year by year OPS+ against the AL from 2003, 278, 207, injured, 210, 203. Yes, his OPS+ against the AL in recent times is in the 200s. That’s the sign of someone who may not handle the transition to the superior league that is the AL.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 2:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no way man

he’s a left handed power bat…the worst he could do would be a late inning bench player…he’ll snap out of his funk…he’s Jack Cust!!!! for godsakes..and there is no way Bonds will become an A

by geronimopratt on Apr 27, 2008 9:06 PM PDT   0 recs

1. I expected this fAnPoSt to be terrible based on the title, but it’s actually good, so good!

2. No one on the team has reached 3 HRs. We’ll need some HR power. Cust and Frank are the only ones who can provide that. In the meantime, Cust has sucked a lot so far this season, but he still has a way above average OBP. He leads mlb in BB-rate and led it last year. That is not going to change. His BA and home runs are sure to change in the upward direction, though.

The question then is how much: With last year’s production he was well worth the bad defense in LF. He had one of the best hitting years in the AL last year, and the A’s need offense. His offensive performance this year (WHICH IS BETTER THAN R. SWEENEY OR DENORFIA SO FAR), is emphatically not worth the cost of playing him in the OF. This year’s performance will be somewhere in between, but unlike last year he’ll have to play the OF every day. So it’s sort of a close call as far as this year goes. But Cust has fantastic upside (he was our best hitter by a substantial margin last year), and we simply cannot give up that kind of upside based on a slump and with a team that will probably not be contending in September.

3. Signing Bonds would be great; I like Cust but I wouldn’t even mind dropping future-Cust for this-year Bonds (this year Bonds is obviously better than Cust (and almost everyone)). But we’re not signing Bonds…

4. Davis is not a good hitter, so no. I like having him on the team, though. His defense and baserunning are valuable.

5. I trust Casilla more than Street at this point, but that could change, and switching their roles wouldn’t really make much difference one way or the other.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 27, 2008 9:15 PM PDT   0 recs

i wonder if it would make people happier with street

if when they looked at his stats, they clicked on splits and looked at his April numbers instead of his season numbers. .216 BAA, 7/7 saves, 1.14 WHIP (and I wasn’t sure if that included today or not). S#@ happens, Japan happens.

Also Cust might look worse with his Japan HR—Of course I think he’ll be better overall than he is now though.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 9:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, he's been shaky pretty much every outing until today, which is worrisome

So there’s that.

And, the Street critics here aren’t interested in stats, so I don’t think they’d care about that. If looking at stats was going to make people happy about Street, they would already be happy (as many of us are), but they’re not….

And I was pretty pissed off about that first game in Japan…

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 27, 2008 10:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i fell asleep before i saw that! so for me it's like it never happened!

But yeah I get all of that.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 10:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not so much an indictment of Street,

okay, maybe it is, but i think my opinion is rather an endorsement of Casilla. I heard and read about all his potential when he was still Jairo Garcia and now he just looks downright filthy.

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 10:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

but he took a long time to get to the majors

because he’s sort of a headcase who walks a lot of people at really bad times. i hope for him and the a’s he’s matured and this is the year he put it all together, but until he puts together a full good season or two, he’s still Luis Vizcaino, right?

There is nothing I’d love more than for Casilla to blossom into a closer that lets Oakland rip somebody off trading a closer for way more than closer’s are worth. But Street is a very valuable closer for now to have on the A’s.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 10:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

True and true to all your points

but I just don’t see that from him this year or actually since the end of last year. Whatever he had to figure out, i think (and hope) he has and he reminds me of a lot better version of Octavio Dotel whom we trusted with that job so why not him?

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 10:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why on earth would the Rangers do that?

They’re further back in the rebuilding process than Oakland is. They’d be unlikely to contend before their final years in Texas, perhaps not even then.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 27, 2008 10:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Blanton + Street still have time left before FA

I’d pay more for Hamilton than that actually. I still can’t believe the Reds traded him. I just figure the Rangers and Reds etc. are good teams to victimize :-) And those prospects don’t have to be good ones. But whatever, it’s just a dream. It was also sort of thinking to myself how the Reds might have taken a deal like that and being sad.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 11:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Eh

I’m not sure I’d trade Blanton plus Street for Jay Bruce, much less Josh Hamilton.

I’d sure as hell trade what the Rangers did, but it’s a pretty long way from “a pretty good pitching prospect” to “200 average to above average innings a year plus a top 10 reliever in all of baseball.”

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 27, 2008 11:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i'd do it for jay bruce !! please ASAP.

I’d trade Joe Blanton for a pack of bubblegum and a side of saurkraut though. I’d just try really hard to hold out for more.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 11:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why?

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 28, 2008 12:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Aw man

There’s no way you can’t do a Blanton/Street for Jay Bruce swap.

Of course, the Reds would probably laugh their asses off if Beane offered that trade.

"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 28, 2008 12:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well

now that they have cordero, there’s no reason for them to do it, but i don’t see why they would laugh their asses off. sure bruce could be good and all, but 215 quality innings/year and a proven closer (sorry haters) are kinda important too

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 28, 2008 12:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Blanton and Street are very good players, don't get me wrong

But Bruce has a chance to be on a completely another level. He’s not just someone who “could be good,” he’s about as certain as a superstar as a prospect can be. This is a guy who’s projected to be a .300/.400/.500 player in CF with 40 bombs yearly. He’s the number one prospect in baseball, according to most publications. Heck if Billy Beane was offered this deal as the Reds GM, he’d probably turn it down too.

Plus, it’s also quite apparent that most teams don’t seem to value Blanton as much as we do. If the Reds won’t take Bailey/Votto for him, they definitely won’t even consider trading Bruce.

"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 28, 2008 12:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OK...

and Blanton/Street for Bailey/Votto would be an absolutely ABYSMAL trade for Oakland.

I’m not saying Cincy would or would not do anything in particular, just that I would have to think long and hard about taking the offer if I was Oakland’s GM and they actively asked me about it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 28, 2008 8:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, that would be pretty bad.

I’d do it for just Blanton, though. Including Street would require Cueto and Keppinger to be included.

by mikev on Apr 28, 2008 9:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Have you seen the #'s Volquez is putting up in Cincinnati?

5 starts, 4 runs allowed, 33K’s in 29.1 innings. Volquez is an incredible pitcher. That said, there’s absolutely no way the Rangers give up a pitcher of Volquez’s caliber, then turn around and trade the same guy for lesser pitchers.

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Apr 28, 2008 5:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

uhhhh reds made a great trade dude

the guy the reds got for hamilton – edinson volquez – is a freaking stud… hamilton’s way older than volquez and puts up gaudy #’s b/c he’s hit in 2 huge hitters parks (cinci and texas). Volquez is a young stud pitcher… way more valuable than hamilton. Plus the reds already have griffey, dunn, and soon jay bruce in their outfield… no need for hamilton.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Apr 28, 2008 11:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's see,

in 2007, Hamilton hit 274-365-497, 861 OPS on the road. In 2008, 306-366-532, 898 OPS on the road.

Neither Griffey nor Dunn are good comps for Hamilton. They’re both DHs masquerading as corner OFs. It’s also debatable whether Jay Bruce is an actual CF, or more of a corner OF who can “handle” CF, like Ryan Sweeney. Hamilton plays CF.

Volquez shiny ERA is nice, he’s also given given up 16 walks in 29 innings.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 12:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hamilton is also a corner OF

who can “handle” CF.

Had the Reds kept him into next season, he would have moved to a corner and Bruce would play CF.

I speak merely for factual accuracy, since I agree that Hamilton > Volquez. Particularly considering the imminent departures of Dunn and Griffey.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 28, 2008 12:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In 2007,

RZR had him at 5 runs below average, Zone Rating at 2 runs above average.

For comparison, Rowand was at 5 below by RZR, 6 above by ZR. Torii Hunter, 4 below and 4 above.

“Had the Reds kept him into next season, he would have moved to a corner and Bruce would play CF.”

And even if he was in a corner, he would still be a significantly better choice than Griffey in a corner.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 1:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cust didn't hit a HR in Japan

He hit it in Oakland.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Cust's bat will improve

(it almost has to) but I doubt his fielding will. His glove scares me a lot more than his bat does.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 27, 2008 9:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Thanks for the props...

...maybe it’ll inspire me to write more!

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 9:23 PM PDT   0 recs

Please don't

this reads like a post over on Halos Heaven. I’m surprised it has so many positive comments.

by 33SwisherSweet on Apr 28, 2008 10:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Prediction: Cust will have a better year than Frank Thomas

Frank Thomas had 10 hits and an OPS of .639 in Toronto, and Billy Beane was alll over FT like a cheap suit.

Cust has nine hits and an OPS of .621. Oh, yeah, he also singled in the winning run today against King Felix.

Just as Toronto was intemperate with FT (for financial reasons), I believe you are being intemperate with Cust.

Incidentally, David Ortiz has an OPS of .611.

"My pitching philosophy is simple: Keep the ball away from the bat." -Satchel Paige

by ptbarnum on Apr 27, 2008 9:29 PM PDT   1 recs

Thomas very well may be a 3-4 week experiment himself

Beane could have told him the DH slot is his for a month – hit the ball and stay, don’t hit the ball and get released again (or maybe retire, he did say that he wanted to retire with the A’s)

by mikev on Apr 27, 2008 9:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

interesting take mikev

never thought of it that way…hopefully he hits the ball

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 28, 2008 12:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I bet that's exactly how it is...

"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 28, 2008 8:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cust's hit was off Morrow.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Excuse me

I just realized Cust singled against Morrow, not Hernandez.

"My pitching philosophy is simple: Keep the ball away from the bat." -Satchel Paige

by ptbarnum on Apr 27, 2008 9:37 PM PDT   0 recs

And I just saw this post after correcting you. Oops!

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about Cust

but I seriously doubt it. I wasn’t disputing who would be better between Thomas or Cust but rather Bonds and Cust. Bust as it is, I would take Thomas over Cust any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Much more so if it were Bonds or David Ortiz!

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 9:47 PM PDT   0 recs

Bonds was pretty much better than everybody in baseball

So that’s not really much of a stretch.

by mikev on Apr 27, 2008 10:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Was. Many years ago. Not last year.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Last year was a fluke.

At least thats my opinion. His recent performance seems to show why he has bounced around so many teams the last 7 years, and has yet to earn consistent playing time. The guy has just looked downright awful. What is worse is that the walks that are inflating his OBP are not making up for his terrible fielding and awful lack of contact. I don’t see a place for this guy on this team, especially in a month or so when Chavy makes it back. A healthy Chavez is something the A’s havn’t had in 2 or 3 years, his production will probably instantly exceed anything Cust does, and from the left side of the plate at that. If Cust isn’t stroking the ball by then it will be time to stop talking about him heating up, and time to give someone else a shot.

As for the future, I’m not sure how his contract stands, but if last year wasn’t a revelation, and he somehow goes on a terror and finishes the season with 40HR’s and 100+ RBIs is he really going to be someone the A’s can afford to keep around? (depending on contract length of course)

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Apr 27, 2008 10:05 PM PDT   0 recs

He will be a 1st year arbitration player next season

so yes, the A’s will be able to afford to keep him until 2011.

I mean, yeah, he hasn’t been good this year—but I’d venture to say his upside for 2009 sizably exceeds that of the alternatives (the Broken Down Vet DH du jour next season being… what, Sheffield?) and, as I’ve said before, I just don’t really care about this year’s team losing games as long as it’s doing so in the right way (by using them as evaluation tools).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 27, 2008 10:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

not to mention

Chavez’ (is that how you punctuate a “z” by the way?) return is completely and 100% totally unrelated to Cust.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I always add "'s" to denote the possessive

Not only does it not look stupid, it’s both clearer and pronunciationally correct.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 27, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ty ty

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 10:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

nice word PT

“pronunciatonally”

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 28, 2008 12:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

I missed that. I sure hope that was unintentional especially after the grief he gave me about my grammar misuse

by petitceebee on Apr 28, 2008 12:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

naw it was intentional

PT has a good sense of humor with that stuff

/fanboying

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Apr 28, 2008 12:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Chavez's.

But with singular nouns it’s generally based on pronunciation (I happen to think this is one of the rules of English that needs to be fixed). There’s also not really a standard, since different style manuals say different things. I guess a quick and easy rule of thumb is that the ”’s” won’t ever be totally wrong with singular nouns.

On the other hand there are plenty of situations where the extra s is not only unnecessary, but usually considered wrong. As a general rule, nouns with a “normal” plural don’t need it.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

actually, many style guides say ...

... to leave off the “s” when the word that’s being possessivized (that comes right before “pronunciationally” in the dictionary) ends in either a “z” or a hard-s: Chavez’ bat, Ned Flanders’ mustache.

After all, when you pronounce such words, you don’t add the “s”: “Cha-VEZ bat,” not “Cha-VEZ-ez bat.” Right?

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 28, 2008 7:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not right

if you ask me… because I always pronounce the extra s.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 28, 2008 8:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I bought some Pez's the other day

and Blez asked Perez whose Pez’s they were and Perez told Blez that they were Marquez’s Pez’s.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Apr 28, 2008 1:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

{standing O}

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 28, 2008 1:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm new to posting on this site

but I’ve been following it daily for the last couple of years, mostly because I like reading Blez, Nico, et al, and my honest opinion is that A’s fans are probably the most intellectual sports fans I’ve ever come across. Just take a look at the Angels or better yet Red Sox fans site to see how emotional fanaticism inevitably leads to irrational arguments. I think (in my opnion) the rational, logical and stimulating arguments on AN are a reflection of the whole organization from top to bottom. From Billy Beane to Taj Adib, the Oakland A’s might have the finest collection of sabertricians (sp) in the country. That said, I don’t understand the irrational hatred and/or un-acceptance from a lot of A’s fans about Barry Bonds. The guy is a stat geek’s wet dream. And in baseball’s mortal world, I think he’s a god among men. I don’t care if he used steroids. I don’t care if he’s a jerk. The guy can flat out hit and he’ll definitely provide something our team sorely lacks.

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 10:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the ones who don't want bonds arent stat geeks

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 11:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm no stat geek either

but even I can see he changes the entire complex of a game single handedly. I remember a couple years ago when he was intentionally walked with the bases loaded. Geez, that’s insane! Who does that?!

by petitceebee on Apr 27, 2008 11:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm sort of willing to put up with people not wanting bonds

as long as they come clean that they just don’t like him. i don’t like people rationalizing that the a’s shouldn’t get him because a.) he’d make the team worse now or b.) he’d make the team worse in the future. Winning isn’t everything, but it’s insane to think he wouldn’t help them win. And as a fan I like watching Barry Bonds play baseball (though some others don’t)

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 27, 2008 11:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about the completely valid (and right) arguments

that actually look at the contributions he makes relative to his cost, factoring in who loses playing time and what the PR damage (a hard to quantify variable) might be?

Just because you want Bonds doesn’ t mean there aren’t plenty of completely legitimate arguments against signing him. It’s pretty uninformed of you to claim that the only possible reason to not advocate the signing is a dislike of the player.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 12:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

PR damage?

So, the A’s would only draw 9700 people vs the Rays on a Tuesday night, as opposed to 9900?

Or do you think that signing Bonds would go straight onto the Fremont NIMBY no-ballpark-permit petition?

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 28, 2008 7:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well i've never said to sign Bonds at any $$$ cost

He’d have to accept an Oakland-sized contract. And he’d be costing Cust or Brown playing time, which has no long term impact on team chemistry etc. Almost all arguments against Bonds impact on helping the team win are either ad homonym attacks or hasty rationalizations as a result of dislike of the guy. And I repeat, it’s perfectly OK not to sign a guy for the sole reason of not liking him, just be honest about it.

Also, signing Bonds causing PR damage is pretty much a joke. Though there are lots of Bonds detractors everywhere now, Oakland and San Francisco are the last two places on Earth where signing Bonds would actually cause a net gain in local PR. Even if it just draws more Giants fans to A’s games, Barry Bonds would almost certainly be a net PR gain (if a controversial one) in Oakland.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Apr 28, 2008 10:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll buy that

Would he help the team win more games?

Absolutely!

Do I want him in an A’s uniform?

No friggin way.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

--Bilbo Baggins

by kaweahkaweah on Apr 28, 2008 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bonds

The upgrade he brings over Cust is absolutely undeniable. Heck, Bonds, if healthy, is probably an upgrade over just about every other AL team’s DH as well. For some reason though, no one has signed him, and there has to be a little more to it than him being a jerk or former steroid user. There are plenty of other guys that carry that same baggage that are starting all around the league. Personally I don’t like Bonds as a person, he’s cocky and a pretty big a-hole, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the A’s. I think there is a bit more resentment on AN just for the obvious fact he played for the Giants, I mean is Bonds really worse than Bradley attitude wise? Bonds, Thomas, and Chavez linked together in the order would be pretty dang awesome IMO. Part of me says I’d be just as happy seeing CarGon or Linden get a shot out there than Bonds carrying the team to victories, but on the other hand it would be pretty badass to have some legit power in the lineup back to back to back.

What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.

by KMoAsFan on Apr 27, 2008 11:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, no.

Last year, Bonds, has a WARP3 of 6.4. Jack Cust had a WARP3 of 6.2

Unless Barry Bonds is going to sign for about $500,000, it’s easily deniable that he’s more valuable than Cust. There is nothing to suggest that Bonds will A) stay on the field B) put up decent numbers or C) not be a bad investment with the PR damage he may cause.

I know I’m a broken record in this thread, but it’s absolutely obnoxious that people are making ridiculous absolute claims without doing any actual research. I expect better of people here. I’ve read all the arguments, and I still haven’t really seen any that sell me on Bonds being a smart option unless you assume Jack Cust is going to hit under .200 all season (and Bonds will play for a million bucks or less). Nothing I’ve seen tells me that’s actually going to happen.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 28, 2008 1:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Last year

Jack Cust got to play DH, while Bonds had to play LF. That’s why Cust looks good in WARP. Things will be different this year. If Cust has to play a whole season in the OF, even if he duplicates last year’s offensive production, he’s going to have a worse WARP.

Using just pure offensive metrics, Batting Runs, Cust produced 33 offensive runs above average last year in 124 games. Bonds produced 46.1 offensive runs above average in 126 games.

By Batting runs above average from Baseball Prospectus, Bonds 43 runs above average, Cust 31.

Or if you prefer a comparison to replacement, Bonds produced 55 VORP, Cust produced 32.6 VORP.

So, using offensive measures, whether relative to average or replacement, Bonds was clearly better. And it’s not easily deniable that he’s not more valuable than Cust.

PECOTA projects

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by r