Breaking: Jays cut Big Hurt
by BWH on Apr 20, 2008 8:08 AM PDT
146 comments
Frank Thomas was released by the Blue Jays this morning.
Bring him back!
Really makes you wonder why they cut Reed Johnson, given that Matt Stairs figures to be the new DH. Or maybe this is just a precursor to seeing Barry Bonds north of the border. The Jays will now presumably go:
LF - Stewart
CF - Wells
RF - Rios
DH - Stairs
Unfortunately, there's probably no place for Frank in Oakland any more, since MSweeney and Emil are clogging up the roster.
"I think the decision is the manager's based on what he thinks is best for the team," said Ricciardi. "As a team we're struggling offensively and I just think Gibby is trying to spark our offence a little bit."
"A lot of guys are struggling, I don't think (Thomas) is alone. I think at this point you try and do what you can do to help the club and Gibby's trying to put our best possible lineup on the field."
UPDATE: Wait, great new idea from BWH: Cut MSweeney, Cust and Thomas platoon at DH. I see no problems with this. At all.
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I'll shut up about Bonds if they sign Thomas
Unfortunately I’m sure he’ll get claimed off of waivers at his current price by somebody before he clears and becomes a free agent.
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 8:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Than cancer?
It’s a push.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Apr 21, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you forgetting how he plugged up the base paths
and that was two seasons ago. This team has some speed to be utilized and add the Big Hurt and
it will be neutralized. The opposition would love for us to sign him. So much for winning a three game series against the Royals with lots of base hits. LOL.
We would have to take the bad along with the good.
Charlie Brown GO A'S WIN
by Charlie Brown on Apr 20, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
charlie brown=
dusty baker.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 21, 2008 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved Thomas as an athletic
My heart says “TAKE HIM BACK NOW!!!!”
My head says, “Where the hell would he fit on this team?”
I would root for him with a passion if he were to be the righthanded DH over Sweeney but this could be an indication of why the head is better than the heart at running a baseball team.
We all know that he has always been a slow starter and hot finisher but is this year different because of his age? I guess that the Blue jays already think they know.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's like Sweeney,
but can actually hit HRs.
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that he clears waviers
and the A’s take a flyer on him….
I just think that they have commited to Sweeney at this point.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not much of a commitment
the A’s signed him to a minor league deal, then purchassed his contract when he made the big club. Cot’s Baseball Contracts site has him signed for half a million dollars this season.
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I recall, Thomas started slowly
during his season with the A’s. He didn’t really heat up until May. He also started slowly last season for the Jays. Cutting him in mid-April seems awfully quick. He’s struggling, but so are many good hitters this early in the season. You’d think the Jay’s would wait at least a month and a half.
...unless, asThomas charges, they are doing this in part to prevent his getting enough at bats to trigger his vesting option. the MLB trade rumors site is reporting that combinations of Stairs, Stewart, Barajas and/or Scutaro (!) are being considered as DH replacements for Thomas
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 8:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On May 20, 2006
Thomas had played in 34 of the A’s 42 games. He was at .178/.300/.373 with 7 HRs.
by Soaker on Apr 20, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the A's were even more patient
than I’d remembered….although those figures don’t take into account that he was heating up, as they include his slow April. What were his numbers beginning in May?
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing with that is...
...the A’s didn’t enter the season expecting Thomas to play as much as he did. It seemed more reasonable at the time to expect him to split DH duties with others, but once he started heating up he couldn’t be taken out of the lineup.
That’s one of the benefits of a low-cost, incentive-loaded one-year deal, the likes of which he wasn’t going to go for again. Now in Toronto, he’s expected to play again every day and produce, which he did for the most part last year but now that it’s the second year of the deal with the option year looming, Toronto decided they couldn’t afford to be patient when trying to keep up with the likes of the Red Sox and Yankees, and possibly even the Orioles now. So, bye-bye Big Hurt.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Apr 20, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is that in 2006,
Thomas was coming off two seasons of much inactivity. He isn’t this season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, so expectations are higher
But if Thomas has a history of slow Aprils (I don’t know – I don’t have numbers on it) then it makes me wonder.
How much of it is really Toronto making a move because he’s not hitting right now vs. his claim that it has more to do with his contract?
Which, of course, he wanted in the first place.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Apr 20, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
very shocking move by toronto… I would’ve expected more level-headedness from our cousin moneyballers in the AL East… maybe this move had more to do with his temper than his production (like when Beane got rid of Milton Bradley).
I say we cut mike sweeney and sign thomas. Besides, having two “m sweeneys” on the team always gets me confused as to who is at bat at games.
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Apr 20, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we don't have two "M Sweeneys"
There’s Mike and…who else?
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Apr 20, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well there is Mryan.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has to do with one simple thing.
When they sat Thomas because he hasn’t been hitting anything for a week, he started talking to the press about how he thought they were doing it to keep him from getting his option year PA bonus.
That’s a crappy thing to do when you’re in a 4 for 35 slump. Take it like a man, Hurt.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Apr 21, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break
Are you seriously trying to tell me that frigging Rod Barajas is a better hitter right now than Frank Thomas?
There’s no possible way benching him was a baseball decision.
The decision to release him said two things—first, that him speaking out was clearly the right thing to do (since now he can catch on somewhere else and actually play), and second, that Toronto’s position was BS and they knew it, and they conceded in preference to acquiring a rep as an org that screws with players for short-term fiscal gain.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 21, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't seem to say it ...
Managers bench slumping players all the time … I’m not sure if it works, but plenty of’em think that it helps to let players clear there head and such …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 21, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's not the story promulgated by Toronto, though
They seem to have been saying that Mgr. Slaughter and JP had a sit-down with Frank where they told him that either (depending on which sources you read) they were benching him permanently or that he’d be at best platooning.
I agree with PT’s instincts on this, but I think he’s overstating his case—the “possible way benching him was a baseball decision” is if the Jays think that Thomas’s bat speed is irretrievably lost.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 21, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not defending Toronto ...
just saying that PT’s response to Ozzz wasn’t really a response to what Ozzz was saying …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 21, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
but it was cumulative with an earlier reply I had made to him on another thread, which I’m assuming he would have read.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 21, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough ...
maybe I should just mind my own business …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 21, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PT--
If he clears waivers, and is picked up by somebody else, who is responsible for his option year?
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what happens to his option
I imagine that nobody is and that toronto has to eat the rest of his contract this year.
I seriously think that this is a money related move by Toronto. They don’t want to pick up his option.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my instinct is that Toronto would be responsible for this year AND the option if he clears waivers
but that a team that claimed him off waivers would be responsible for both and that Toronto just figures he is a sunk cost; that they have sufficient replacement for his production, and they might as well cut him and hope somebody else eats his contract.
I think also they wouldn’t want to deal with an MLBPA grievance that Thomas would inevitably file if they cut his playing time tons, so they just cut him.
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Thomas clears waivers, I'm pretty sure his option year gets voided
When a player gets picked up on waivers his new team takes on the existing contract. If a player clears waivers, his old team is required to pay any guaranteed money owed for the duration of the contract.
Vesting options are a bit of a gray area, however.
Frank Thomas’s contract includes a guaranteed $10 million payday in 2009 IF Thomas hits 1000 PA during 2007-2008. He’s 309 PA short of that goal, meaning unless he gets hurt he’s going to hit that mark.
So 2009 is an option year, but it’s guaranteed based on playing time. I think the option part of that trumps the guarantee part.
All of which doesn’t really matter because I doubt Thomas clears waivers.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Apr 20, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutely no idea
I’m highly interested in the situation for exactly that reason.
My sense of it is that as soon as a player is released his old contract is “settled” (in the lawsuit sense) for the remaining guaranteed money minus the league minimum and immediately stops being in effect. Which would definitely void out the option year. However, I’m not certain that this is true. It’s pretty rare that players getting paid this much money get released.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the PA thing is "semi-guaranteed"
For example, the Blue Jays could get in trouble for limiting his at-bats for the sole purpose of preventing the option from kicking in, right? So then why should they be able to cut him to avoid the option from kicking in as well is the logical extension? But who knows?
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually don't think he would have had much of a case in a CBA grievance
It’s a bit of a grey area, but ultimately, the team can play the player it wants to play. It would be hard to prove, not impossible but hard, that they were sitting him purely over money.
However, it would have looked really bad for the team. They keep their hands a lot cleaner this way… but they also cost themselves one of their better hitters.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - there is no grievance issue here.
If he were benched for the last week when he was 3 PAs shy, sure. But you don’t try to get out of a next season’s option year by cutting a player in April of his current year – thereby getting nothing out of him while still likely having to pay a lot.
This is simpler: He was cut because about 1/3 of the way through a big contract the Jays had “buyer’s remorse” – b/c personalities clashed and/or b/c he wasn’t performing (or both).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Players would stop signing that kind of vesting option with the Jays
if they did something like that. In principle, that’s the Jays’ disincentive to treat players that way. And if lots of teams do it, then the players would fight to address it in the next CBA negotiations.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Apr 20, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that it could be seen as an isolated situation
It may not reflect how the Jays handle vesting options, just how the Jays-Thomas relationship went. In fact my current understanding is that the release was “agreed upon mutually” – I don’t know if that is actually the case, but that’s the way it has been presented.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't being clear -- I meant
that players would have avoid the Jays if they had opted for the “let’s just sit Frank for the whole season (or platoon him with Stairs) so his option doesn’t kick in.” I agree with you about the way it actually worked out.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Apr 20, 2008 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I wasn't being clear either - what I meant was
“Be more clear, you idiot!”
Aren’t you glad you introduced me to AN?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me cynical...
...but MLB is the absolute worst professional sport when it comes to getting truthful quotes about why things are done.
Anyway, if money was the factor, I believe it’s possible that they released him now so they could point to the numbers as their justification rather than wait until he warmed up and started producing again. As it is now, they can probably avoid potential adverse reaction whereas in a couple months they may not be able to.
"Rebuilding" is loser mentality.
by UncleLeo on Apr 21, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
waviers
I am wondering if anybody will pick him up given the money. I suspect that he will clear waviers given the money that he is due and will be due if he gets about 315 more PA this season with a vesting option for, what, $9mil in the 2009 season.
I thought that it was a bad contract when the Blue Jays gave it to him and it was just about having him around to hit 500 as a Blue Jay. I was annoyed because, if I recall correctly, the only teams offering him anything were us and Toronto. Toronto made a much greater offer than they had to and that blew away any chance that he was going to be an Athletic again…..
I remember that my Thomas 35 t-shirt jersey arrived the day he signed his contract with Toronto.
I believe that april is the only month of his career in which he has less than stellar numbers.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It reminded me of the Sabean approach...
...sign aging veterans to a year more than is sensible to get them to sign here instead of there. The downside to that is, of course, that the ‘extra’ money has to come from somewhere, and the Giants did it so much that they invested virtually nothing in the farm system for too long.
"Rebuilding" is loser mentality.
by UncleLeo on Apr 21, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fond memory:
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
better looking in baseball pants than is mike sweeney
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this name at DH will end the "which sweeney is which" confusion
ok, I’ll stop.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 20, 2008 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
bonds > thomas
so let’s get both!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Apr 20, 2008 8:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes plz
who’s better at 1B is the funnier question, Thomas or Barton?
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
i like Thomas more, but I think Barton is probably better for us in the long run.
It's Been A Great Year! Thanks Warriors!
by ballin on Apr 20, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I like Barton as a hitter more now. I meant who’s better at playing 1B with a frying pan instead of a mitt.
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone is thinking of Thomas at 1B
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a joke! thats why it was a funny thought :D
of course you don’t play Thomas at first
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say we get Thomas
Sweeney’s been ok, but Frank Thomas is Frank Thomas.
Might as well Jump! - Van Halen
by sprtsnwyn on Apr 20, 2008 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not this year, he's not.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Apr 21, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bring
back Frank Thomas! I would love to see the Big Hurt back here in Oakland! Our team’s offense would be a lot more scary, backed up with out excellent pitching.
Athletics Nation start a Frank Thomas Movement! and Let Lew Wolffe know the fans want him!
It's Been A Great Year! Thanks Warriors!
by ballin on Apr 20, 2008 9:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
betcha Tampa Bay feels foolish for grabbing Dan Johnson
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 9:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Tampa could turn around and waive DJ if they were really interested in Big Hurt.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Apr 20, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that's true
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could claim Thomas and DFA DJ
Poor DJ. Personally, I would absolutely LOVE to see Hurt on the Rays. They need a DH, and whatever intangibles are worth, you would think that TB would stand the benefit from them more than most teams.
stat-addled alien overlord
by salb918 on Apr 20, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they have gomes and cliff floyd at dh
gomes mashes… they don’t need thomas
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Apr 20, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Lind...
will be the DH not Stairs
Neat Sig
by smith1051 on Apr 20, 2008 9:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the various articles cited by MLB trade rumors
(link in my post 8:53 am PDT) mention Lind as a defensive upgrade at LF, pushing Stairs and/or Stewart to DH.
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct...
he will be in the field but worst case scenario he is the DH over Stairs
Neat Sig
by smith1051 on Apr 20, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think this move is money related
It follows a clash between Thomas and manager John Gibbons in which Gibbons told Thomas he wouldn’t be playing every day and Thomas lashed back publicly – “Thomas did not shake hands with his teammates following Toronto’s 3-2 win over Detroit,” and told reporters, “My career isn’t going to end like this” (how will it end?).
Riccardi’s quote above shows he feels he needs to take the manager’s side and support him – hence the quick jettisoning of Thomas. Problem is, it’s not the first time Gibbons has had a similar conflict where it was “me or him” and so the player had to go (I think the last one was Shea Hillenbrand, so who knows how culpable Gibbons is there).
My take: Gibbons is a bad manager who can’t handle the 25 personalities of a major league team and admin keeps having to diffuse conflict by getting rid of players. Or else Toronto keeps signing prima donnas and having to get rid of them. But I suspect that isn’t it. I suspect it’s Gibbons’ style.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gibbons also clashed with Ted Lilly
although it didn’t result in getting rid of him—he chose to sign with the Cubs.
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who aren't very thrilled with his current performance
At least that’s what the Chicago sportswriter that Marty Lurie was interviewing yesterday was saying.
The candy and the baseball all night long :)
by Englishmajor on Apr 20, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could I forget? They nearly came to blows
on the mound in a start against the A’s!
The Jays really need to take a look at the common thread here: Their manager.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
(does not apply to the problems with shea hillenbrand, of course)
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Apr 20, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, that means the Big Hurt's kids won't get bitten by a lemur?
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly hope not!
"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 20, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
double-negative?
Are you anti-Big Hurt’s kids, or pro-lemur revolution?
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He likes to move it move it
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i remember watching that game on tv
wasn’t it against the A’s in Toronto, with the Jays scoring 8 runs against Haren early in the game, but the A’s coming back and winning? I remember the fight and Gibbon’s bloody nose.
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup - that was the game
Lilly couldn’t handle the 8-0 lead and the A’s came back to win – with Haren getting the W. Buaaahaha…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lilly's bitch
Was that he should have been left in to handle the game when he got in trouble, just as the A’s had left in Haren.
I was at that game. Toronto has excellent kosher hot dogs, and good beer. Good, respectful fans, too, without a lot to cheer about
by As Fan in the Bronx on Apr 22, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Blue Jays organization is effed up
John Gibbons is going to get a Larry Bowa reputation, and that’s not good.
Thomas should never have been benched in the first place. Sit him a game or two, fine. You still need to try to win. But Thomas is still a productive player who has always gotten off to a slow start.
The Big Hurt will catch on somewhere. I’d love it if that somewhere were in Oakland, but unless Beane is willing to release Mike Sweeney I don’t see it happening.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on Apr 20, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Thomas a career slow starter?
Well, that depends on your frame of reference…
On one hand, his career April OBP is .406 and his career April OPS is .916.
On the other hand, that .916 OPS his the lowest in any month. Which is to say that he has been an effing incredible hitter over the “larger than 60 AB” sample that is his career!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just goes to show how good he's been
I think we’d all take someone who put up those numbers over a whole season, let alone one month.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site
jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Apr 20, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OTOH...
Would you take a guy who, when you bench him in the middle of a 4 for 35 slump, goes right to the press and starts bitching about you, claiming you’re trying to rip him off financially?
If he always gets off to a slow start, that says to me he ain’t preparing for the season until the season is underway. And that’s weak.
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Apr 21, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And players who slump towards the end of the season?
What’s that? What does that say to you?
What about players who slump in August, when the weather is very hot, muggy and humid? What does that say to you?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 22, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they prepared too *early* for the season
But players who hit .400/.490/.530 all season long, with no variation from week to week and no slumps longer than 10 plate appearances, well those guys prepare just right.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 22, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 22, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compare Frank's first 60 ABs from '06 to those in '08
Strikingly similar:
‘06
BA: .167
OBP: .231
SLG: .400
OPS: .631
‘08
BA: .167
OBP: .306
SLG: .333
OPS: .639
I think this is more about Gibbon’s “My way or the highway” mentality than Thomas’ numbers as it isn’t unusual for Frank to get off to a horrible start.
by CB77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thomas is hitting .167
and he’s still been almost as good as Sweeney.
You can take this a variety of ways, but one conclusion I think everyone can agree on is this: back injuries are a b*h.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm concerned that Thing 1 is not healthy.
He’s limping badly on at least one leg. I like his leadership, but beyond that I’m not sure how helpful he can be.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Apr 20, 2008 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, his limp was obvious the last time he was on base
i thought it was interesting the past few days, as I listened to some interviews of Geren and Defrancsco, how they were talking about various players hitting well, etc, and only mentioned MSweeney’s ‘clubhouse presence”...then again, I guess half a million isn’t that much for a clubhouse presence.
by OaklandSi on Apr 20, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Frank Thomas: DH
and Mike Sweeney: coach.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Viagra
2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!
by OptimistPrime on Apr 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the title was
“Jays cut, big hurt.”
And I was like, “well, duh”.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Apr 20, 2008 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of the best one of those I've ever seen
I forget if it was here or the Drumbeat, but someone last season posted something along the lines of “When summer comes, the A’s will get hot.”
I still chuckle when I think about that one.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some more real headlines...
Eye Drops Off Shelf
Include Your Children When Baking Cookies
Police Begin Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers
Drunks Get Nine Months in Violin Case
Prostitutes Appeal to Pope
Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
British Left Waffles on Falkland Islands
Teacher Strikes Idle Kids
Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told
Juvenile Court to Try Shooting Defendant
Two Sisters Reunited after 18 Years in Checkout Counter
Stolen Painting Found by Tree (“Yay, tree!!!!!!” -Cindi)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another awful one
Molested Boy Loses Appeal
by Ray of Lite on Apr 20, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plane Too Close to Plane, Crash Probe Told
My flight back from Norway this week came within a couple of feet of landing before pulling out for the announced reason of there being “another plane on the runway”. So that was a good call then …
by green star oakland on Apr 20, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite
which was from the Chronicle, several years ago, was
FEMA: Fault Lies In California
(and it actually was a story about earthquake preparedness, too)
The candy and the baseball all night long :)
by Englishmajor on Apr 20, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I get an Amen for
Gladly, 
the cross-eyed bear?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Apr 21, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
Governor’s pen is busy
formerly known as mdl
by iglew on Apr 21, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
is no way to treat a veteran player like Thomas. He deserves better. Bring the Hurt back to Oakland. He’s Mike Sweeney with a few more K’s…
by sf drift king on Apr 20, 2008 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i think you mean
a few more moonshots
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 22, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Thomas want to play every day ?
That doesn’t seem to be a good fit with all the platooning ideas being bandied about.
I loved having him on the A’s in 2006. At the time Toronto signed him many wanted him to stay an A, but the counter-argument was not the 2007 season, but always the 2nd and potential 3rd (triggered-option) year of the deal.
I can’t imagine we would get the 2006 Frank Thomas back for the 2008 season, comparably slow starts notwithstanding. At that time he was coming off a couple of years of rest and rehab for his knees; now he’s coming off two straight full(ish) seasons, one of which has been on astroturf.
The idea of Thomas’ return does kindle warm 2006 memories though – including Lily witnessing her first home run, a monster shot to left that enlivened an otherwise dismal losing cause (other memories of the game include Jay-Pay dogging it in right in out our “all-centerfielders” outfield) .
by green star oakland on Apr 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, that game ...
July 1st vs Diamondbacks, Batista perfect through 6.2 gives up a walk to Crosby and loses the no-hitter to Frank, but since Loiaza’s own much shakier shut-out had been bludgeoned with a 6-spot in the top of the 7th his shot to deep left was no more than consolation.
by green star oakland on Apr 20, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is a tough one...
do we stand pat with the low two pair, or draw to the straight?
"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 20, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thomas<Sweeney
I loved Frank, I love Frank. But when given the chance to stick around, he split. Between the two I think the intangibles that Big Sweeney brings are more valuable to the team than Big Hurt. Good luck Frank.
2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!
by OptimistPrime on Apr 20, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"intangibles"??? lol wtf
sounds like a giants fan infiltrated this blog
thomas mashes sweeney doesn’t. “intangibles” are for losing team’s announcers to talk about while their team is getting face crushed by good teams.
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Apr 20, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fairly sure Mike Sweeney would split if Toronto wanted to give him $18m
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO! Not Mike Sweeney!
He’s a nice guy. You must have forgotten that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be honest with you ...
if Toronto wants to pay me $18m to attend their baseball games, instead of A’s games … I’d do it …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you, on the other hand, have no intangibles
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything I have to offer is very, very tangible ... it's true ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com
by Ozzz on Apr 21, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
try "height=200" next time
formerly known as mdl
by iglew on Apr 21, 2008 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we would have lost something if he did ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 21, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we all remember the last season the Big Hurt played with a chip on his shoulder
Pick him up please.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Apr 20, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
id have split too
for 2 years $18M with a $10m option
by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
True.
It is all about the benjamins, but we gave him a shot when no one else would and you would think that would elicit some semblance of loyalty. But alas, this is a business and seems no one really believes in
loyalty when millions are involved. The more I think about it, the more I would like to have his presence in the lineup. I don’t think opposing pitchers fear MSweeney the way they do Thomas. I like the coach suggestion, but MSweeney is FAAAAR from retirement and is going to want to play everyday. I could see the Giants try to prop him up at first base for some pop in that lineup. I think we would really screw up our team makeup this early in the season by unceremoniously axing MSweeney and signing Frank, don’t you?
2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!
by OptimistPrime on Apr 20, 2008 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many millions is a sembelence of loyalty?
I’m sure BB would have been happy to give Frank 1 year, $9m—I doubt he really wanted to give him two years at all and he certainly was not touching the third.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"team makeup"???
team makeup will be just fine when thomas hits 30 bombs and the guy he replaced had hit zero
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Apr 20, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that's why they signed Piazza last year.
To give the team makeup pointers.
by Dilferules on Apr 20, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 22, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question for more knowledgable folks
From what I’ve read on ESPN.com and SI.com, nothing is mentioned about waivers, and they both say that Toronto is responsible for his full 2 year $18M deal. So what I get out of this is Frank is free to sign with another team and his option is voided. Is that right? I know if a player is designated for assignment or put on waivers than a claiming team covers the salary, but if Toronto is responsible for the full guaranteed amount I’d say he’s fair game.
"You're a terrible ballplayer, but you've always been a great asshole."-salb918 on Ozzie Guillen
by gatling on Apr 20, 2008 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Players who are released are put on a different form of waivers
than the standard DFA waivers.
[puts on professor hat]
There are 4 kinds of waivers: optional waivers, major league waivers, irrevocable outright waivers, and outright release waivers. In practice, almost no one ever gets claimed on release waivers (because the player’s about to be released anyway) or optional waivers (not sure why, but mostly because they’re not used often). It looks like Big Frank has already been put on and cleared release waivers, making him a free agent.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which should also mean...
that the $10M option for next year is then voided, correct? The reason I ask is I run a fantasy league with a salary cap, and I’m trying to figure out if the option for Thomas is wiped out, or if it will remain in play.
"You're a terrible ballplayer, but you've always been a great asshole."-salb918 on Ozzie Guillen
by gatling on Apr 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would stand to reason ...
It really wouldn’t make sense any other way—but I don’t think anyone here has enough information to say for sure.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I borrow your hat?
I have a date tonight.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Apr 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Hurt
“With a career average of .302, Thomas is one of four players in baseball history with at least a .300 average, 500 home runs, 1,500 RBIs, 1,000 runs and 1,500 walks. The others are Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams.”
by Concord Fanz Dad on Apr 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's a Hall of Famer without question
Still boggles my mind that someone as slow as he is could be a .300 hitter—especially when you consider that he’s also an extreme flyball hitter (fly balls are less likely to be hits than grounders).
Tells you how good his stroke was.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if that was always true ...
was he always an extreme fly ball hitter?
In his prime, he always seemed to hit fewer home runs than you’d expect, given how big he is and how hard he hit the ball. It’s my recollection that he had more of a line drive stroke than a true power stroke and he just was so strong he’d accidentally hit 35-40 line drives a year over the wall.
Too bad we don’t have BIP data going that far back …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You bring up a good point ...
if Frank keeps playing, he likely won’t be for long.
Assuming he bats .270 until then (his average in 2006 with the A’s), his batting average will drop under .300 after 648 more at bats, probably in late May or June of next year …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 20, 2008 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas
is a better option than Sweeney, and he has no baggage like Bonds. He was a good guy and helped our team greatly. Yes, he clogged the basepaths some but he was a positive anyhow and still would be IMO. I would feel sorry for sweeney because he really does seem to be a very professional ,team type player.
by IM4Oakgal on Apr 20, 2008 9:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He has some sort-of-baggage
Since he’s shown that if he doesn’t play every day he’ll bitch to the media.
by Dilferules on Apr 20, 2008 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta say, if I was in that situation
and was potentially being screwed out of 10 million dollars, I’d probably be a little unhappy myself.
by mikev on Apr 21, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peter Gammons just compared
Barry Bonds unemployability to challenges that Frank Thomas might face trying to find a job…uh, I think not.
Can we keep small-sample-size Bobby Crosby? Please? -Joey C.
by pam5981 on Apr 20, 2008 10:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
jays banter
A jays fan perspective on the Thomas situation.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 21, 2008 6:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just goes to show the lengths an organization will go
to get Inglett into a game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Apr 21, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A smart organization, anyway ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 21, 2008 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now this is terrible news for Dan Johnson...
If the DRays pick up Big Hurt. (Orioles, Texas are other options) I would say Seattle, but they have a fascination with professional hitters, Ibanez/E. Martinez back in the day.
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
by gdub171 on Apr 21, 2008 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lineup
OK, here is the lineup that I just came up with which will include the signing of both Thomas and Bonds:
Buck CF
Barton 1B
Bonds LF
Thomas DH
Cust RF (versus righties)Brown RF (versus lefties)
Ellis 2B
Crosby SS
Haranrnanrnanranaannna 3B
Zook C
Of course, this would be great fun so long as A’s pitching averaged about 15 Ks and 10 ground balls to 2B or SS per game. It is at least fun to think about.
R. Sweeney and Denorfia would be used a lot as PRers and defensive subs. The days off that bonds and thomas would need would also help the playing time of both denorfia and Sweeney the younger.
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Apr 22, 2008 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
154 consecutive error-free-free games!
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Apr 22, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they can't get to it, it's not an error!
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 22, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it make more sense to cut Brown
and just use Denorfia in the platoon role in this lineup?
Also, you appear to have 6 outfielders on this roster. Plus a DH.
As amusing as all this is, it seems fairly clear that there’s only room for one of the two.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 22, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to a blurb I heard on ESPN radio today...
...the A’s “may be close” to signing Thomas. I guess we shall see.
Some read stats. Fans actually watch the games.
by UncleLeo on Apr 22, 2008 6:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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