Has Boppin' Bobby Turned the Corner??

by madmongoose on Apr 19, 2008 10:15 AM PDT

Of all the developments of this still quite nascent season, the performance of Bobby Crosby may be the most promising. His approach at the plate, while hardly ideal, finally seems to be anchored. Last night we saw the results. We can only hope that the injury cloud above his head has departed for good.

In a season of transition he is the one long-term holdover that holds real intrigue. Ellis is Ellis-- he's established his offensive and defensive value and will likely not deviate much from it as long as he stays here. Chavez will never be what we-- and Billy Beane-- hoped; he's probably not going to be what he was even two years ago. Blanton is also pretty set-- a servicable #3 starter thrust into a different role and perhaps destined for another uniform. And Harden's enigmatic story has grown old. Duchscherer is an interesting experiment likely to have only mixed success given his injury history. Street is good-- not great. And pretty much the rest of the roster has all arrived in the past couple of years.

So our dwindling emotional investment in Crosby has all of a sudden started to perk up. Questions: can he play 150 games? Can he become a dependable, above average contributor for his position? Solid defense and decent offensive numbers-- not the Gammons envisioned MVP totals-- but what about .270-335-470-- 25 bombs and 85-90 RBI? Is that too much to ask?? Can he be a cornerstone to a team trying to reach for the top again in the next two or three years?

We can only hope-- because without that level of production, we don't have another good option.

0 recs | Comment 55 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Crosby

Following the A’s games without having looked at individual stats, I was surprised to see that Crosby’s OPS is still only .802. I guess two thoughts about that come to mind. 1) Crosby’s .802 OPS doesn’t mean he’s tearing up the league. In fact, there’s nothing spectacular about those numbers. 2) Given what we know about Crosby over the past several years, Crosby having an OPS over .800 is quite remarkable.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Apr 19, 2008 10:23 AM PDT 0 recs

His OPS+ is 123 though.

It’s a strong .802 OPS

I’ll take the 6BB/7K ratio all day long, too.

by mikev on Apr 19, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

Going into last night's game

it looks like Crosby’s OPS for the season was .679.

Would we be seeing this diary had he gone 1 for 5 last night, instead of 3 for 4 with 2 2B, 1 HR and 1 BB? Hmmm…

I’m trying my hardest to keep an open mind about Crosby and what we’ve seen so far in 2008 has been at least somewhat encouraging. Let’s not overvalue one night’s performance, though.

by Soaker on Apr 19, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up 0 recs

Great point.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Apr 19, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'd take a 679 OPS from Crosby

in a full healthy season and be content about it. That would be a big improvement on 2007 and a fairly big improvement on 2006.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 19, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

Agreed

It is great to see Crosby swinging the bat relatively well. I’ll definitely take an .800 OPS from Crosby over the course of the year.

Probably more significant than the higer than normal OPS is, like you pointed out, his BB/KK ratio. That is probably the key stat for him. That stat probably shows that Crosby has in fact seemed to turn a corner.

Of course, with all of these arguments and the post in general… it’s still a small sample size.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Apr 19, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up 0 recs

I disagree completely

The walks are nice, I guess, though he’s still not walking at a significantly higher rate. And I really couldn’t care less if he strikes out less if he’s still making outs. And, until last night, he was making outs at basically the same rate as he always has.

Most of the time, a ground out, fly out, and strike out have the exact same result.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 19, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

However he's cut down on the flailing strike 3s

on sliders away. Which is nice.

by OldhamA on Apr 19, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up 0 recs

yeah, now he's grounding out to 2B on them ...

... or occasionally pulling one on the ground into LF.

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

Results != approach

If he’s hitting the ball hard, and still making outs due to hitting the ball right out fielders, as opposed to striking out, that might indicate a new and better approach.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 19, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

I still see plenty of weak ground outs (especially on those low and away sliders)

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 19, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

His approach is much, much better

He is never going to be a good hitter, and he sure as hell won’t put up an .800 OPS, but this year’s approach has transformed him from a gaping hole in the lineup into a bad, but acceptable, contributor. I am absolutely a believer that his moving closer to the plate, etc has changed him from a .630 OPS hitter to a .710-.720 OPS hitter. He is still not good on low and away sliders, but it is night and day from 2006. He is taking an awful lot of them this year, as opposed to flailing at every single one.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 19, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up 0 recs

And let's face it - seriously - most hitters

aren’t good on low and away sliders. Heck, most hitters aren’t that great in righty-righty matchups. Crosby’s done everything I could hope for so far this year at the plate. Just because he occasionally flails at a bad ball doesn’t mean much because every hitter does that occasionally. It’s the “every other pitch” thing that gets me going off on him. Every 20th pitch, I can accept.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 19, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

yes

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 19, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

Don't forget injuries

He’s often been playing at nowhere near 100% healthy. I think one of the questions is not whether he can ever be an 800 OPS hitter, but whether he can ever be healthy enough to be an 800 OPS hitter. He does have a (half) 800 OPS season under his belt already.

by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not worried about that

Almost all contact injuries.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 20, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

then you should be excited about his start.

he had a lot of sore back issues in his down offensive times

by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 6:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't think an 800 OPS is asking too much

In 2005—with 370 PAs—Crosby had an 802 OPS. He then had two seasons wrecked by injury and inconsistent performance at the plate. But look at 2005 and tell me it’s not possible to duplicate those numbers. If you project it to 550 PAs then he would hit 275 with an OBP of 345, hit 12-15 HRs and 35+ 2Bs. I personally think the HR numbers could be low—that 20 is a pretty doable target—and that 35 2Bs is probably an outlier with 30 a much more likely result. So he could actually hit a little lower than 275 and still get there. His walk rate that year was about .95/per each PA—so 50+ walks would seem reasonable assuming a more disciplined approach at the plate. (Last season his walk rate dipped badly)

Now others will note that the 2005 numbers were heavily influenced by two very hot months, followed by two mediocre (at best) months, interspersed with two injuries. But a lot of good seasons are founded on hot stretches. all I’m saying is that it appears—knock on wood—that he’s got a decent chance to be good this year.

by madmongoose on Apr 20, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up 0 recs

Before last night his OPS+ was 90

We’re still at the point in a season when one great game can skew the numbers.

For the most part, Crosby has been mediocre. That’s been an upgrade over useless, but he’s not exactly been very good all year.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 19, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

A 90 OPS+ from a good defensive SS

is perfectly fine and decent. Not mediocre at all. If your team’s biggest “problem” is a 90 OPS+ from a good defensive SS, you have a great team.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 19, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

Agreed if he's the biggest problem with those numbers

But right now he’s expected to be a huge part of the offense.

I still don’t think he’s anything special defensively, either.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Apr 19, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

Various projection systems had the A;s being respectable this year

and they all had Crosby being either the worst or among the worst offensive player on the team. I don’t think a single person out of the 6 billion expects anything special out of him. He’s a good SS, not special by any means. A good defensive SS is very good though, and a whole lot of them can’t hit, just like Crosby…

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Apr 19, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

And then there's Carlos Guillen

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 19, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't think he's special on D either

If he were “special”, ie ~20 runs above average or better over a full season, a 90 OPS+ makes him a star, in terms of value.

He’s around 5-10 runs by most measures. Which with a 90 OPS+, is fine and decent from a SS.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 20, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

I understand the need for optimism

Prior to this season, Crosby had managed a 240/310/391 career line over 435 games and 1597 at bats. Now 3 weeks into the 2008 season people want to think he’s “turned a corner”? We’ve seen Crosby go on a 3-4 week run before, it happens.

Turned the corner? I’m not sure he’s even on the right freaking road!

I know that I’m not filled with the milk of human kindness when it comes to Bobby Crosby, but for crying out loud he OWES us a full season of this kind of hitting before we raise our hopes. He has to prove that this isn’t another hot streak.

Crosby had made some adjustments. That’s a great thing. Pitchers will see this and change their approach. What will Crosby do when that happens?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Apr 19, 2008 11:43 AM PDT 0 recs

+1

I am more kindly disposed toward Bobby Crosby (because I’m generally a sympathetic pushover), but I’m irritated that this is his 5th “season” and I still don’t know which player he really is.

"Huston, you're hot!'' said first baseman Dan Johnson, dressed as a bottle of mustard.

by Poppy on Apr 19, 2008 8:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ever the sensible one, Poppy

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Apr 19, 2008 9:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

He's the shortstop -

Do you even watch?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 19, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

...I thought Crosby played hockey...

...you mean we’ve got a Crosby too!

That’s awesome!

"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

I wish we had the hockey Crosby

If other ex-hockey players are anything to go by (Glavine, Bedard, Harden) he’d probably be an MVP candidate.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!

but it sure is a great small sample!

2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!

by OptimistPrime on Apr 19, 2008 12:37 PM PDT 0 recs

Can we super-size it?

There is no meta in "team."

by TomB on Apr 19, 2008 6:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

The most played out

saying besides “thats just how I roll” that I have ever heard is small sample size…I mean does every…single…discussion we have here have to come with a small sample size reminder or disclaimer…everything is a small sample size three weeks into the season and I’m pretty sure everyone is aware of that fact…sorry but I think it is about time that this was said.

by throttle mathius on Apr 19, 2008 7:59 PM PDT 0 recs

Thank you - I agree

Maybe people will start to see it your way if there are a few 100 more comments like yours. As it is, well, it’s kind of a small sam—

Yeah.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 19, 2008 9:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

You say in a diary, that is admitted to be based on "last night's results" ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Apr 19, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

At this time of year

every discussion of statistics will include the phrase small sample size.

Period.

If it’s something about a player’s career numbers, then the caveat doesn’t (necessarily) apply.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 19, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Perfect

So lets just use that as the rule and save our breath on saying it everytime…if it is true about every discussion must it be noted everytime or is it just an exercise in being redundant??

by throttle mathius on Apr 20, 2008 3:20 AM PDT up 0 recs

I've found that if you don't remind people about things,

even incredibly obvious things like “50 ABs is not something you should be basing personnel moves on,” they forget about them.

I don’t think it’s redundant at all.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well, it is redundant!

It’s also necessary.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Apr 20, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

Whoa – Do you mean actually have a conversation about the game of baseball? About how Crosby looks like he’s seeing the ball so much better…...how he’s hitting balls harder on a more consistent basis…how he’s not topping as many balls as we’re used to seeing? Or maybe the fact that he’s 5th in the AL in hits, 2nd in doubles, and 4th in RBI’s? How he just looks healthy and strong out there, way more comfortable in the box or ‘anchored’ in a way that the original author mentioned? Maybe you wanted to discuss how his next 10 swings after hitting a HR or a ball off of the wall aren’t all uppercuts. That type of stuff? I think you forgot which fans you were communicating with – not going to happen here. I won’t be back.

by CarneyStewHendu on Apr 20, 2008 12:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

since you ignore the fact that all of those have been discussed at AN this season ...

... you won’t be missed.

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up 0 recs

Speak for yourself - I miss him already. :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

I miss all three of them

But I’m stuck in the 80’s, I guess.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Apr 20, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up 0 recs

speaking of carney

omg the giants have 6 runs

by mrrickyg on Apr 20, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't really get it?

Are you complaining that some people discussed stats and results (And their validity at this time of year) in response to a diary that focused on stats and results and only gave very passing mention to anything “actually … about the game of baseball”?

Would you like to dissect changes in BoCro’s swing? Perhaps offer some pictures or, better yet, video, showing how he’s improved from last year to this? That would be fantastic. I’d love to read it and we would all promise not to use the the term with the initials “SSS” in response to any of your process based analysis.

If you just want to bitch and moan about folks trying to raise the level of discourse, well then, feel free to let the door hit you on the way out … or not, your preference.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Apr 21, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

BoCro Can't Hit...

I’d love to see Bobby put together a nice season. But it ain’t gonna happen.

by solotar on Apr 19, 2008 8:09 PM PDT 0 recs

I have been standing on the corner for two hours

Where the hell is Bobby?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Apr 19, 2008 10:23 PM PDT 0 recs

Heartbreaker

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 19, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

QOTM

And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 20, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up 0 recs

How are Vladimir and Estragon?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Apr 21, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

Crosby looks more comfortable

At the plate so far this season, than I have ever seen him before. Its nice to see Crosby finally go the the other way for once in his career, his approach at the plate this season is much improved. I think a lot of his early success has to do with the fact that his finally standing in the same time zone of home plate. He can finally reach the low and away pitches that accounted for many a swinging strike three’s in previous seasons. Like it has been pointed out many times before, you can’t read into his performance thus far as an indication of how his season will turn out; but it is a hell of a start for the man that had the lowest batting average in the Major leagues last season.

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Apr 20, 2008 12:22 PM PDT 0 recs

No, no, no

No conversations about the game of baseball here.

Didn’t you read the earlier thread?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Apr 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

I thought Croz' double down the right field line off Felix

was telling – Felix was virtually unhittable and Crosby took an outside fastball and just shot it down the right field line. That’s a sign that his approach is fundamentally different so far this year.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 20, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up 0 recs