Q: Can a team without HR power win a championship or WS?
by Ice Cream on Apr 12, 2008 11:10 AM PDT
Email
PrintThe 2008 A's (with the exception of Jack Cust) don't seem to have much home run power. Nevertheless, I'm enthused that the A's can go far as long as they keep hitting and driving in runs. You know, that and scoring more than other guys.
So my question for you guys is: Do you think a team (any team) can win a division or championship or World Series without a lot of HR power? Are there historical examples of that and if so, what did those teams have in place, e.g. pitching, great hitting, particularly weak opponents etc., to make up for the deficiency?
Thanks in advance to all of you who know more than me about this stuff and know how to look it up.
23 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
As long as we're thanking in advance those who know more, I'd like to in particular thank whomever takes the trouble to look up the 1985 Cardinals. The Jack Cust/Jack Clark parallel is fun, anyway.
Brainless Automaton #439
Jack Clark was a very different hitter from Jack Cust
Jack Clark was basically a poor man's Gary Sheffield. Jack Cust is (hopefully) a well-off man's Rob Deer.
And the 1985 Cardinals played in such a completely different environment from the 2008 A's that there's really no basis for a comparison. Dale Murphy led the league that year with 37 HR's and only 5 players hit more than 30. Busch was a pretty extreme pitchers park that massively suppressed HRs, while its huge outfield and painted concrete astroturf surface put speed at an absolute premium. According to baseball-reference.com, the park-adjusted league SLG at Busch in 1985 was .388. Last year's equivalent at the Coliseum was .410.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The '85 Cards didn't win the WS. But the '82 version did.
Former Athletic George Hendrick was their most powerful hitter. Hint: He wasn't all that powerful.
by WaddellCanseco on Apr 12, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
better question:
should a team without hr power sign barry bonds?
yes.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
You can't actually justify that
when you look at his production/cost compared to that of Sweeney/Cust. He's simply not worth the extra money he will cost. A win, at most, is not worth $10 million. It's just not.
http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/
by thejd44 on Apr 13, 2008 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions
That depends on how you expect both Bonds
and Cust to hit.
Bonds was worth more than one win more than Cust in 2007.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
The 2007 Angels say no
(And believe me, I'm amused by how similar the '08 A's lineup is to the '07 Angels. Take out the boneheaded basestealing, which actually ended up costing them runs over the course of the season, and the approaches might as well be the same.)
However, looking up my handy copy of Baseball Between the Numbers, it appears that "percentage of runs scored on HRs" and isolated power are insignificantly correlated with playoff success, so this hypothesis is, while not exactly wrong, at least unproven at this point. The key to playoff success, as always, is having an elite top of the rotation and late-inning bullpen.
And of course, last year's Angels had that and still lost, so the real key is to get lucky.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Looked at it for a few minutes
It appears that no WS winners in the past 25 years had less HR power than the A's are likely to have. The two teams with the least appear to have been the 1988 Dodgers and the 1990 Reds. Not sure how those teams won...
The A's colors are green and gold.
If the team keeps pitching like it has ...
you know, if it continues to allow the second fewest runs in the league ... behind only the Kansas City Royals ... then an offense that is 2nd to last in the league in HRs but 2nd in doubles and walks should be sufficient to get the team to the playoffs ... once there, anything can happen.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
So far we've been saved by "doubles power!"
The question is, which can we sustain more: Being among the league's leaders in doubles, or HRing less than once every other game. {Goes "Eek" waiting for the answer he knows is coming}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd expect a slight drop in doubles and a large increase in HRs, going forward ...
based entirely on my preseason expectations -- since the totals this point are based on such a small sample size.
(was that the answer you knew was coming?)
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
last season the white sox had the 2nd most home runs in the AL
and the least runs scored. Home runs are a bit overrated
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
The White Sox's problem last year
was that they had no baserunners. Like, ever.
Solo HRs are probably overrated. Multi-run home runs are, if anything, underrated.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Here's the way I see it
Would anyone have a problem with a line-up composed of Ellis, Suzuki and 7 guys who could hit like a healthy Travis Buck? You probably wouldn't have a 20 HR hitter in the bunch but I don't see that as being a problem.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Depends which Travis Buck -
The .000 hitter, or the guy who hits .600 with all doubles?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
don't doubles hit by young hitters...
eventually translate into homeruns as they mature? I read that somewhere. These guys are young. It will only get better (and, more powerful) as the season wears on. Also, maybe it is only anectotal, but it's been my impression that past A's teams hadn't started hitting their homeruns until June, when it warms up. I should check that stat before I post, but I'm too lazy.
Go A's!
Offensive numbers are always down league-wide in April due to cold weather
A's have had 5 games in domes (avoiding the weather and good for hitting anyway) where they scored most of their runs, but they've also faced better pitching than what they'll face for the rest of the year, so who knows...
The A's colors are green and gold.
The weather issues are real ...
Oakland definitely is a much better hitter's park when it warms up. Snow in Cleveland tends to suppress offense. Toronto and Tokyo should be more or less neutral, though.
Doubles by young hitters often eventually translate into homers ... like in a year or three, as they gain muscle. Players generally don't lift much in season (just enough to maintain, not enough to actually grow).
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Pennant- Yes, WS-no
The go-go White Sox of 1959 won the American League Championship with a team B.A. of .250 with a whopping 97 HR's. But their speed, defense and pitching carried them to the top. They lost the WS to the Dodgers in 6 games.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
