for the first time in years i didn't actually expect harden to do anything. i've been drafting the guy in fantasy every year thinking this will be the year...but not this year. i've given up. the guy's just not meant to pitch.

i'm excited about all the young arms though and eager to see them get a shot.

anyone at all surprised by how far the payroll has dropped this year? 3rd from last? i'm guessing this has been discussed elsewhere. is this a precurser to a future signing (or two) or are they just saving some money?

...at least one stint on the DL, and the way the pattern is developing it will include at least one fairly long one.

That is not something a team should try to operate around, especially when Harden has ace stuff.

If he wasn't as good as he is he'd be long gone already, so it's clearly a case of the team hoping - in vain so far - that Harden can somehow not be as fragile as he is.

The problem is, I just don't think anyone who's fragile can ever really get past that for good, especially not a pitcher. We already know the overhand pitching motion is not the natural way to use the body and it puts exceptional strain on the arm, shoulder, etc.

As much as I like Harden, it may be time to stop while they're behind and move on. I'd rather see the A's get something for him instead of playing the "Let's hope he can last more than half a season and give the team something while we rely on others to make up for it while he's out again" game.

It's sad. He's got some of the best stuff I've seen from a young pitcher, but he just cannot hold up to the demands of pitching.

Has managed to overcome his oblique problem and managed 69 GS through 2006-2007.

I don't know what to do about Harden other then to hope and pray he can get healthy and make 10 consecutive starts so he can build up his trade value and then Beane can deal him.

A lot of people have speculated that maybe with all the injuries the Angels have suffered the A's could sneak in a run at the division this year. Sure, maybe if Harden could stay healthy.

RICH HARDEN WILL NOT STAY HEALTHY AS LONG AS HE WEARS AN OAKLAND UNIFORM!

Forget about contending in 2008. Any player who isn't expected to be on the roster in 2010 is trade bait.

what's happened to Rich. I don't know if anyone is to blame, or if this is one of those times when bad things happen simply because bad things happen in life.

But I feel for Rich. I really do. And I wish him the best.

The sun rose in the east.

Great read, BBG. But I just don't think this group therapy (at least where Mr. Harden) is concerned is working out for me.

It's a shame, too, because I thought calling by his full name was what the doctor ordered.

Then again, perhaps mentioning "doctor" and "Harden" in the same post is not a great idea.

(Cat got up on bobbleshelf a few months ago, demolished BobbleFrank and reparably broke BobbleRich. I decided not to repair BobbleRich for as long as RealRich was healthy, hoping that maybe the cat had transferred the injury demons' attention onto the bobbles instead. No such luck, apparently.)

I'm not surprised at all, but I also can't stop hoping each year will be "the year." That's my weakness (one of many). I also don't think he's malingering, but have no data to back that opinion up. Leave it.

From my standpoint they have to give him a chance to come back at this stage. I also think they are being overly cautions due to the track record of nagging injuries that limit his ability.

I'll continue to remain hopeful that this is the year for him.

On the case of calling up Greg Smith has to do with how well Dana Eveland has pitched. If Dana had not blown away a great offensive team then I'd probably have left GSmith down due to the odds that our rotation was only a couple deep. But if we get Duke back (assuming it was only a slight injury) as he pitched great and Gaudin improves then we are looking at a 4 deep rotation at least. You could see it as giving GSmith some time to get comfortable in the majors, but I have to agree that this was Billy being aggressive against the division.

Complicating the decision has to be the Mariners' loss of J.J. Putz and the Angels losing a ton of top shelf starting pitchers. Hell if Billy sees some daylight we always know he's gonna shoot for it.

Phase 5 is up next, and I expect it to be announced in about 2 weeks when he is supposed to be "Ready" to come off the DL.

Soker was completly right when he listed em.

1. We're pushing Harden's next start back a few days.
2. Harden is skipping this start but is expected to take his next turn.
3. His next turn is also being pushed back a few days.
4. We're putting him on the 15-day DL but it's retroactive. He'll only miss two, or at most three, starts.
5. Harden is still experiencing discomfort and is being shut down. Dr. Yocum says there is no structural damage and prescribes rest and rehabilitation.

Harden's done in my book. Quite frankly, I'm not expecting a lot of starts from Duchscherer either. We'll have to make do with a rotation of Blanton, Eveland, Gaudin, Smith and eventually Gio Gonzalez. That rotation ain't bad either.

Harden misses one start (possibly two) -- comes back and pitches the rest of the season ... he wins 15-18 games.

If I'm wrong, no one remembers. If I'm right, I get to brag "I called it", and the A's shock the world!

I'm a "shock the world" kinda guy.

to go the Rick Ankiel rout; grab an outfield glove and start shagging flies; grab a bat and take some hacks in the cage and see what happens. He is a hockey player, so swinging shouldnt be too foreign to him. I mean, really, I dont see any reason he should be pitching for Oakland anymore. Can anyone say Mark Prior?

Send him right to the 60 day DL, send him to Phoenix and ask him to call when he feels he might manage another handful of innings. Oh, and here's a biography of Sandy Koufax to read on the plane.

(very casual, of course) with Rich; first when he had just barely come up in the second half of 2003, then two years later. Both times I was impressed with his lack of pretentiousness. I find it hard to believe that most ballplayers want to contrive injuries -- and that goes doubly for Rich. "Pitching through pain" sounds noble, but if it leads to altering motion -- even unconsciously -- it can lead to more serious injury. Gaudin is lucky he only ended up teaaring his hip labrum due to the pain caused by his toe problem.

That said, I remarked at least two years ago on AN that I suspected there was some physical problem that needed to be corrected (perhaps surgically), and if not I didn't expect him to ever get through a full season....and each season he ends up on the DL even earlier.

(Or at age 18 or so?)

He never went through the normal injury nexus that potential pitchers go through as teenagers.

I'd imagine that these scenarios play out across the country all the time:

A very talented 12 year-old is the best athlete on his Little League team. Naturally, his coach tries him at pitcher...but every time out, the pitcher complains of soreness, or says that he "can't pitch today" for somewhat vague reasons.

Eventually that coach stops asking that kid to pitch. His arm, or perhaps even partly his psyche, can't handle it, and he becomes a shortstop or a rightfielder or something else.

Some variation of this story happens with thousands of prospects during their high school career, or sooner. They are moved off the position by natural selection/survival of the fittest, long before they reach MLB.

Harden never went through this process because he started pitching much later in life than the typical MLB pitcher. He pitched a dominant year of JC, exploded on the minor league scene, and was on the A's practically in the blink of an eye.

If he had started pitching at age 12 he probably would've been a dominant force in youth baseball for 3-4 years, and then had to deal with these woes throughout the rest of his teen years. So his high school coach, frustrated and worried about his future health, would convert him to 1b or another position to preserve his arm but keep his bat in the lineup.

We might've never even heard of him.

judging the players' character by their various comments to the media that trickle out every now and then, because:

1. They're really not much to go on at all (less to go on really than "my friend heard player X is an asshole or something like that). I hate the similar game of rushing to quote output machine to see if a reliever who's blown a game is sufficiently apologetic and sufficiently understands the full extent of his talentlessness; and

2. Really, who gives a fuck?

Harden would be forced to pitch. In Japan, where pitchers often throw 100 pitches a day, begging off when you can perform in pain is unacceptable. In fact, a Japanese club would pitch him whether he hurt or not to find out if the injury was going to get worse, or see if he would still be effective through the pain. If he tore something bad and had to get surgery, so be it, as long as he served his club honorably as long as he could.

Before the strength of MLBPA, he'd have to pitch every five days, or he'd be farmed out or released. Clubs called people like Harden "Malingerers" and often would put them in the lineup hurt out of spite, to either drive them to perform or see enough of a sample that a person couldn't play hurt so they could bring someone else up to replace him.

I wonder... if the A's said, "We're not DL'ing you, so get your ass on the mound for your next start whether you hurt or not!" , could Harden file a grievance, or would he be forced to get out there and pitch?

If we're truly looking at a scenario where Harden is going to be shut down for most of the rest of his time with the A's, then go somewhere as a free agent, we might as well make him pitch until his arm falls off, so that way, at least we know we'll never be facing him healthy in another uniform in 2-3 years...

About Harden as well as the A's organization. Agree, both of them are bullshit, but as avid fantasy baseball player I know that the A's are not the only organization to downplay the flow of information when it comes to injuries, for instance just recently many fantasy players could be heard complaining how the Atlanta Braves downplayed Rafael Soriano's injuries yet again as he begins another stint on the DL.

With Harden, I really don't know his minor league, pre-minor league history, but I'm pretty sure that if he got to the majors he did so with a mostly clean bill of health over those years leading up to the show. Either he has done something to his body that has ruined him for good and he is in denial about it, or he hasn't, and he is just prone to injuries, and maybe unlucky.

I fully believe Harden is the latter, mostly extremely prone to injuries. It appears as though his body just cannot handle the wear and tear of every fifth day. Maybe every 10th day would be a smarter idea, but pride and tradition beg to differ. I know we can't trust the A's PR, but this injury isn't as serious as others in the past, Harden will pitch more this year.

WE'RE STILL TIED FOR FIRST!!!!!

the A's, it is the bad news part.

When it comes to Rich Harden, Billy Beane and Co., the Oakland A's have a little Soviet-style Politburo in them. The selective release of information day-by-day is straight out of the "common cold" that felled Yuri Andropov. One day it's the sniffles, the next day it's Konstantin Chernenko drinking vodka shooters in the Kremlin.

http://games.espn.go.com/frontpage/outOfTheBox?page=ootb080411

because, after all, an 0.68 era vs toronto and cleveland is not quite as good as 2.03 vs milwaukee and arizona

since I admire BBG as a fan and writer, and PT is a fellow Sagehen. I still don't get the character assassination but I sort of understand the frustration. The source of it seems to be having expectations of health in the first place.

Coming into the season I had penciled in two rotations:

Beginning of Year -- Blanton, Harden, Duchscherer, Eveland, Gaudin

End of Year -- Eveland, Smith, Gonzalez, Simmons, Gaudin/Lenny/Saarloos/Blanton Bounty/Street Bounty

I assumed Blanton would be traded and Duke and Harden wouldn't last. As far as I'm concerned the only part that hasn't come true so far is Blanton hasn't been traded yet.

I still have high hopes for the team in a weak division and pretty good bets in Gonzalez and Simmons and whatever Blanton (and Street) bring back.

Players with injuries like Harden, Duke (and Chavez and Calero) usually don't come back as their former selves. If they do it's a bonus, but you can't expect it.

outstanding piece (nice work, BBG!) is the fact that I think that Harden's body simply isn't built to throw the ball as hard as he does. Look, pitching is an unnatural motion as is, then you throw in someone Harden's size and he's hitting 98 on the gun, something has got to give. People like Blanton, David Wells, Dana Eveland and even the more scrawny and lean Zito are better built for it than a compact, muscular frame like Harden. I've met him several times in person and he's just ripped. That's good for playing defense in hockey and linebacker in football, but not so good for pitching in the major leagues. I would imagine the muscles have to affect the range of motion when they're too large.

Harden is a superior talent, but I think that superior talent was locked inside a glass box and the only way for him to get it out is to break off little pieces of the glass. I'm just as frustrated as everyone here just because it honestly seemed like this year, Harden was going to be different. He went on a press effort to basically say the A's forced him to pitch when he wasn't ready last year and it was their fault he was so injured and that he was going to "do things his way from now on". He implied he was going to be healthier because of it. Well, you can't blame the A's for this one.

As for the A's representing it as only something minor from the plane flight, I wouldn't doubt if that's what Harden had told them. And since it's a pulled muscle, the medical professionals aren't going to be able to confirm or deny it. They have to rely on what Harden tells them.

I'm just tired of this being a story each and every year. I'm tired of waiting for this guy to carry our team. He could be the second coming of Cy Young, but none of us would ever know it.

That's OK. I wasn't counting on having Harden all year because I did think if he was finally healthy, the A's were going to deal him for a boatload of prospects. I hope he at least gets healthy enough to allow the A's to make that happen and in the meantime, I'll enjoy Eveland and Smith.