Slusser: Devine up? Harden to DL?
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
129 comments
Susan Slusser reports on the Drumbeat that she's peeked at tonight's lineup card, and that:
Joey Devine's name is written in the bullpen portion of the A's lineup card for tonight's game, though the left-handed reliever wasn't yet in the Oakland clubhouse.
Slusser speculates that Harden may be DL'ed to make room for Devine, with Pecs DiNardo starting in lieu of Harden.
Her final caveats:
There aren't any other injuries I'm aware of that would involve the A's bringing up a pitcher, but nothing has been announced and no one is around to provide an explanation. I'm sure it will all become clear in the next hour or two.
Update by baseballgirl: Harden will be (or has been) placed on the DL. I'm shocked. Wouldn't be the first time the A's led a 'day-to-day' into a DL stint.
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devine called up and chavez on the 60 day DL?
< crosses fingers >
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Apr 10, 2008 1:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope...
Chavy going to the 60-day DL exempts him counting against the 40-man roster, but that does not create room on the 25-man active roster. Also, since Devine is already listed on the A's 40-man roster, moving Chavy would be moot.
However, if Harden is well enough to pitch, then maybe the A's will option Smith back to Sacramento to make room for Devine.
by calgbear on Apr 10, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden
Gaudin pitched the entire year banged up (according to his pre-game interview yesterday) including eventually needing to have a bone removed from his foot, yet Harden can't go because of his injury. Whatever.
Might as well Jump! - Van Halen
by sprtsnwyn on Apr 10, 2008 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd count that as a demerit on Gaudin's intelligence/judgment
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so
The fact remains that Harden consistently puts his own health/well-being ahead of the team's, and Gaudin does the opposite.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with that whatsoever
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin
in the second half last year had an opposing batting line of .290/.385/.515 and a 6.30 ERA. Gee, thanks Chad.
The team's well-being is not served in any way by someone trying to pitch through an injury, except in an extremely rare case like Schilling having his ankle sewn up late in the playoffs. C.f. Mulder 2004 or Meyer 2005 for other examples.
"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher
by andeux on Apr 10, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
Gaudin could have pieced together a decent start every now and then. Harden won't pitch, therefore he contributes nothing except collecting check after check.
Might as well Jump! - Van Halen
by sprtsnwyn on Apr 10, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if Gaudin blew out his shoulder,
sustaining a SLAP lesion while pitching with his problems, then what?
The A's would have just lost for good a young player with potential, and under team control for the next 3 years.
With pitcher's, the pitcher's well being / interest nearly always coincides with the team's.
With a position player an injury, even a serious one, is rarely career threatening / ending. The player heals up, the team gets value out of him again.
With a pitcher, an injury, even what appears to be an innocuous one initially, is often career threatening. An example, the shoulder injury / rotator cuff tear, that Pedro Martinez needed surgery for in 2006 was attributed to the hip injury he sustained earlier in the season when he fell in a bathroom / lockerroom in the Marlins stadium.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 10, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell that to the Twins in 2006
There's no way on God's green earth they make the playoffs if Radke isn't gritting his teeth and starting 28 games for them.
Look, I'm not saying that Gaudin pitching hurt last year was a good idea. It wasn't; it was a stupid risk, albeit one that should have been noted and disallowed by the team's trainers. I'm just saying I'd rather have a guy who wants to win than a guy like Harden who only cares about his next contract.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fascinating.
"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher
by andeux on Apr 10, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
< / Sabermetric Spock >
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul, I'm glad you're not my boss.
by WaddellCanseco on Apr 10, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really sure why
Most employers would be irked if an employee called in sick 4 times a week, which is essentially what Harden's been doing for the last 2 seasons.
I'm actually pretty placid in person... it's just that I've developed an increasingly palpable dislike of Harden over the past three years.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then they'd get sick leave. First paid, then unpaid.
Why get irked? Why browbeat a person to work while injured/sick or question their character? Just replace the guy.
by WaddellCanseco on Apr 10, 2008 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Just replace the guy."
... yeah. Exactly.
Apart from which, when someone signs a contract to work for you, and then does the above, it's pretty irritating even if you understood going in that you had no recourse if the guy decided to scam you. It's like leaving the keys in the flowerpot so your wife can get into the house and having your house subsequently burglarized.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're saying Harden is "scamming" the A's?
That he's actually healthy but is pretending to be injured so he doesn't have to work?
by WaddellCanseco on Apr 10, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa there, cowboy
I'm not walking into that minefield. I'm not a doctor and I haven't seen his medical records.
I think the possibility exists that he's exaggerated his symptoms. That's as far as I'm willing to go without more concrete info.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PT...I'm right there with you
Just pisses me off.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So:
You want stupid players, but smart trainers to prevent them from doing stupid things? Because then ... what?
Careful: Your argument is about two or three logical steps away from devolving into a Jenkins-esque paean to grit, spit, dirt, and ballpark franks.
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wants Harden to either play or get off the team
I understand that. Look...this is ridiculous. You just can't do this to your team and fans. It's no one's fault, not really, but Harden has proven for years and years that he can't stay healthy.
Period.
Yet every year, he gets pissed in Spring Training when people ask him reasonable questions about his injuries, and then goes and gives his fans hope when he pitches for his 10 innings, and disappears back on the DL, never to be seen again.
Frustrating as HELL.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's not even taking into account the A's PR department lying to the fans to frustrate us further...if I never hear 'just stiffness' or 'just day-to-day' again, it'll be too soon. I don't trust them.
A's injuries are ALWAYS worse than reported.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are fired up.
I was responding not so much to his frustration regarding Harden's fragility, but rather to his advocacy of Gaudin's not-so-astute perseverance during the second half of 2007.
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry :-)
I was not fired up at you, at all. :-)
Just so sick and tired of this. Would rather not see Harden at all, then go through this every single year.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trick is to maintain low expectations, I think.
It's funny: When I read your "I know not to expect too much he's just going to get hurt but maybe what if no probably not but wouldn't it be great" recap of his first start, I thought two things:
1. This sounds identical to her recap of his 2007 debut.
2. This is the same frustrating trap we all fall into every year, despite knowing better. I refuse to acquiesce. I will stay strong. Hey, but what if he does make 30 starts?
Harden-hope is like the Borg. Resistance is, indeed, futile.
C'est la vie.
I certainly don't expect much more from him this year. Except, of course, the usual late season cameo (preceded by long toss and bullpen sessions that go really, really well).
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think low expectations are too high.
No expectations is more like it. Because...2 starts? Seriously?
Can we keep small-sample-size Bobby Crosby? Please? -Joey C.
by pam5981 on Apr 10, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative expectations, perhaps?
Like, if you'd gone into the season anticipating -6 quality outings from Harden, think how psyched you'd have been when he exceeded that by 8 just a couple of days into April.
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want stupid players?
I understand you're exaggerating, but... come on. That's not even close to what I said.
I said that I wanted players who wanted to win baseball games. Stupidity is not an asset when it comes to winning baseball games (at least not in most cases... Manny Ramirez notwithstanding).
Ceteris paribus, etc etc, a player who wants to win and is willing to take reasonable risks on behalf of winning is a better player than one who doesn't care and is purely interested in maximizing his own finances.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a player who's interested in maximizing his own finances ...
... would find a way to maximize his health and maximize his performance. Harden, due to his (real or imagined) fragility, has already cost himself massive amounts of potential income in his post-arb years.
Please own up to what you're accusing Harden of: goldbricking.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden's health and Harden's performance
appear to be countervailing tendencies... thus making it impossible to maximize both of them.
What I'm really saying is that if a situation arose in which Harden would have to potentially risk injury to help his team out, a la the Radke thing above, I don't think he would do it. I doubt that he's per se faking injuries, although it's possible that he's exaggerating the severity of them to ensure that he limits the risk that he'll have to pitch while he thinks he's slightly hurt.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you didn't mean it,
but you definitely said it.
Paraphrasing:
monkeyball: "Gaudin pitching with foot injury = stupid."
You: "Maybe so, but he's a team guy."
andeux: "He did not help the team by pitching injured."
You: "Look, yeah, it was dumb to pitch injured. The trainers shouldn't have allowed it. But I'm saying I want the guy [Gaudin] who wants to win, not that selfish ninny Harden."
Thus:
You want stupid [i.e. willing to hurt themselves and their team in order to score high on some kind of idiotic grit macho metric] players, but smart trainers to prevent them from doing stupid things.
C'mon now. Not close to what you said?
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a significant difference
between "willing to hurt themselves" and "willing to take a chance on hurting themselves." As I said, reasonable risk.
There's also a significant difference between "in order to score high on idiotic grit macho metric" and "in order to win baseball games."
Gaudin's decision was stupid for two reasons. First, the team was out of contention, and second, he wasn't effective. Under those circumstances, risking injury is totally pointless (as noted by me and others at the time). It wasn't stupid just because he was risking injury. It was because he was risking injury in a situation where the potential loss outweighed the potential gain.
Let me try to sum this up as simply as possible. If I'm a GM, I'm taking note of which players are willing to push themselves in critical stretches (e.g. Eric Chavez) and which are not (e.g. Harden) because it's worth something to a team to have a degree of flexibility. (Also worth something to a team is players who are honest about their injuries, something neither Gaudin nor Harden scores very high on right now.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's just a whole lot more gosh darn sensible.
Thanks for clarifying.
Because I could have sworn you were were praising Gaudin for stupidly pitching while injured. But now I know you weren't. Except that you were. Because he was trying to win baseball games. Which is totally different than adhering to the gamer/play-through-pain ethic, because intent matters. Or something. Though really, his risk analysis skill set leaves a lot to be desired. So actually he was stupid, and you're not praising him. Except you are, because you admire his willingness to sacrifice for the team. Even though it was stupid. But that's not what you're saying. Sort of.
No need to fire off a multi-paragraph rebuttal ... I'm just giving you a hard time. I get the point you're trying to make. But I hope you'll concede (even if only under your breath in a quiet room late at night with no computers in sight) that your prior comments didn't reflect quite the same nuance, and that perhaps it's not so shocking that I drew the inference I did.
by 74mk on Apr 10, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin's decision was not perfect
but being a complete wuss isn't either.
I dunno- it's tough to be judgmental in Harden's case... obviously if he were to tough it out and come in and have a career ending pinky ligament injury, that is just as bad for the team as sitting on the DL his whole career.
At some point, you have to wonder what would happen if he had a little more of Chad's spirit in him (and I do feel bad saying that- I like to give him the benefit of the doubt), but at the same time I can't blame him for the hope that one day he could get on a track of remaining injury free.
by oakinboston on Apr 10, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Meyer
appeared to have Chad's spirit.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 10, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
and it's taken him sooooo far.
by oakinboston on Apr 10, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and also agree
with your comments about the interest of the team and the pitcher largely being in line
by oakinboston on Apr 10, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta tell ya
I rarely agree with PT, but I think he makes a point here ... as does oakinboston ... there comes a point where a guy has to say to himself, "Self, I can't stay healthy -- I'm on the disabled list for EVERYTHING ... let me retire so I quit stealing money
Seriously, Harden is frail ... unbelievably, "you've gotta be kidding me" frail. He oughta be in a doctor's manual as a freak of nature.
"It's not helping the team if he pitches hurt ... blah, blah, blah" If you're gonna "hurt yourself" every two weeks, do us all a favor and get out of the game.
VacaAsFan
by Vacafan on Apr 10, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with a frail player getting paid his contract
That's the team's problem. If they didn't do their homework, or got unlucky, or whatever, it's their financial risk. Let me make that quite clear. I'm not crying crocodile tears about Wolff et al losing their $4.5 million.
I just want the A's to win some frigging baseball games.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You nailed it.
Could not have said that better myself.
What REALLY pisses me off (and yeah, I'm surprisingly pissed, even though I knew it was coming), is that Harden whined ALL SPRING TRAINING about how people kept coming up to him and asking him how he was feeling. He was like, "just let me pitch and prove myself!".
Well, once again, we're going through this to start a season. Why not let us start with a real pitcher from the getgo?
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may not work for too much longer
Harden's been able to stick on A's roster despite his injury because the A's farm system has been thinning the last 2-3 years. Now that we have a bunch of new prospects competing for a starting spot, if he keep getting injured, he will be let go.
by asfansince1989 on Apr 10, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's more to blame for this situation?
Harden for being hurt all the time and possibly being selfish, or the front office for continually putting up with him? I'm not saying that taking a lowball offer from some other team or outright cutting a guy with a guaranteed contract is the ideal solution, but it's probably the most efficient, eh?
At some point-- and I would say that point has definitely been passed by now-- you know what you have in an employee. It's not Rich's fault that he's on the roster.
by Joey C. on Apr 10, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
same results though
"The fact remains that Harden consistently puts his own health/well-being ahead of the team's, and Gaudin does the opposite."
The results being that Harden is too injured to pitch, and Gaudin becomes too injured to pitch.
by asfansince1989 on Apr 10, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is funny...
It's the same shit every year with Harden... start gets pushed back because of mild discomfort... then his next start is scratched... then he goes on the DL but don't worry it's retroactive to such and such date and he'll only miss 1 start, 2 at the most... then they just can't figure out what's wrong him so he misses 2-3 more starts... then they find out that it's some sort of strain and shut him down...
hahahahahahahahahahah.....
THis is the type of joke that doesn't seem to get old... in fact this is the kind of joke that gets funnier every year.
It could be Gaudin going back on the DL... could Smith getting optioned back down... but my money is on Harden going to the DL.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Apr 10, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick (AN), 10/7/07
by doctorK on Apr 10, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$100,000 Pyramid
Kerry Wood...ummmmm...Mark Prior....ahhhhhh ummmmm...Rich Harden
Fragile Pitchers!
YES!
I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.
by franks a lot on Apr 10, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
That's an error/typo.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 10, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
innocent until proven guilty!
Fly Harden, Fly!
by ChadGod on Apr 10, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks like we may only be good enough to win 98 games now.
With Harden I was thinking 105
by ChadGod on Apr 10, 2008 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So we're on Phase 4 for Harden
right on schedule.
Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind, Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves, The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach, Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow. Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves, Let me forget about today until tomorrow.
by Zonis on Apr 10, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if Harden were a drug, he'd have never gotten past Phase 2 trials
Proven efficacy, but poor safety record.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Smith deserves to stay
With last night's performance, I think Mr. Smith earned an extended call-up. If Smith blows up in his next two starts, go back to Plan D, which is DiNardo. The A's brass have got to be extremely optimistic about Eveland & Smith. We might have our 4th & 5th starters for 2008 & beyond. I used the word Hope 3X in my last post about Smith. Isn't it great to be full of Hope, instead of being full of Sh*% like a Giants fan.
by alpine26 on Apr 10, 2008 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It has to be Harden, unless Gaudin didn't come out
of his last start well. There would be no other reason for an extra bullpen arm, unless someone was coming out of the Bullpen to start. Even if they sent down Smith, if both Harden and Guadin were healthy, we would have a full roster.
by theblackpearl on Apr 10, 2008 1:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't know Devine was considered left handed
even though he throws with his right. That's pretty cool.
by HRH on Apr 10, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed that is neat
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Apr 10, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At what point do you start to wonder
whether Harden's medical issues are due to hypochondria as much as or more than to actual physical issues. As in, his body doesn't feel 100% perfect, and the more he focuses his mental energy on it the worse the physical problem appears to be.
I raise the question because I don't recall Harden having had any surgery in the last couple of years. I think the last one was on his non-throwing shoulder, IIRC an old hockey injury which he aggravated a couple of times during games. The medical report always comes back with the "no structural damage" comment.
We don't have nearly enough facts to call Harden a "wimp". It may well be that his body simply isn't built to handle the strain of pitching baseballs for a living. I think there's a possibility, though, that successful treatment of Harden may need to address his state of mind as well as his body. Meanwhile, I'm well past the point of reacting to Harden injury news with anything but a roll of the eyes and a shrug.
by Soaker on Apr 10, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Harden playing hockey is kind of ironic
I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.
by franks a lot on Apr 10, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this hasn't been discussed near as much as it warrants
It's common, almost axiomatic, for a player returning from injury--especially pitchers--to feel gun shy on their return. Duke and Gaudin both mentioned it this spring; sportswriters (yeah, I know) make it a part of almost every injury rehab story. A doctor telling you you're all better is not usually enough for a player to overcome the mental barrier to "letting it all fly."
This was, IMO, a huge factor with the Harden "coming back no wait still hurt" dynamic we saw last year: Docs clear him, his first tender steps back encounter some soreness/tenderness/hesitation/whatever, and Harden shelves himself, while saying he's close to returning.
I agree with many above that it's foolish to ask a guy to play through the pain. It's not the same thing though to work with a guy to overcome his past-injury-driven mental block against throwing his hardest. The ability to discern between those two situations, which both manifest similarly, is I imagine difficult for any training staff, perhaps much morse so for the A's staff, what with their history of poor diagnoses and treatment plans and general tendency to lie, even to themselves.
There is an A in Whimsy.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Apr 10, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does the insider still post here?
OaklandA23 where are you?
Might as well Jump! - Van Halen
by sprtsnwyn on Apr 10, 2008 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably saw AN 3.0 and ran away
I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.
by franks a lot on Apr 10, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We may have traded Street
Could be that Street or Embry has been traded and Devine is coming up to replace them.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Apr 10, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Susan probably would have mentioned
Street/Embree not being on the lineup card.
Of course, maybe she wasn't looking for their names. So it's possible, but highly unlikely.
MLBlackout.wordpress.com - Help put an end to MLB.tv blackouts
by HigherPie on Apr 10, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But by the same account, if Harden wasn't on the card,she would know he was going on the DL
by theblackpearl on Apr 10, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do starters who aren't starting...
get written on the lineup card anyway? I dunno.
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by HigherPie on Apr 10, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because they can potentially come into a game, if it goes long enough
where you have to use a starter.
by theblackpearl on Apr 10, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we can only deduce...
That SuSlu failed miserably at her sleuthing, because she should have been able to figure out from the card exactly what's going on?
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by HigherPie on Apr 10, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a quick glance was all she got
easier to note one new item, rather than figure out which of 25 others is missing.
by MobiusKlein on Apr 10, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A gamer would have been able to figure it out.
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by HigherPie on Apr 10, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously not panther enough
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick (AN), 10/7/07
by doctorK on Apr 10, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they listed starters, I'd hope I'd had been able to figure it out
But they don't.
by slusser on Apr 10, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
theblackpearl owes you a big apology.
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by HigherPie on Apr 10, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as does doctorK
Slusser = plenty Panther
(And I ain't moving on to any other feline species.)
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So sorry
Went for a crummy HH joke and made like Cust
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick (AN), 10/7/07
by doctorK on Apr 10, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a good joke!
I'm just jerkin' your chain, doc.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...I'm shocked that Harden is hurt & that the A's have misled about the seriousness of it.
Huh.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it will all become clear in the next hour or two.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's just too fun
speculating in the meantime.
Harden's pregnant?!?!
omg!
by oakinboston on Apr 10, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other news
A's are going for the Canadian sweep. It is when you win every game in the series, but lose your star Canadian pitcher! It is almost as good as maple syrup.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Canadian maple syrup < Vermont maple syrup
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost as good as maple syrup?
Let's not get too crazy here. We are talking about maple syrup here!
Might as well Jump! - Van Halen
by sprtsnwyn on Apr 10, 2008 2:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Its Fra - gil-ay ! Must be italian...
Too much negativity around here... A's could sweep Toronto with a win today!!
Dana Eveland has a another tough assgmt with all the right handers in the lineup. But the A's have hit Marcum around before.
GO A's!
Also, Warriors have the biggest game of the year tonite. So give up some love and luck for the local basketball team!
by Oaktownflav on Apr 10, 2008 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was really excited about Dana Eveland when I saw his minor league stats. I am really happy that he finally has found a club where he can have some stability with his role. Plus he is my friend on myspace.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
UPDATE from drumbeat
**update**Manager Bob Geren confirms that Devine is en route to Toronto and he's expected to land right about now (5:30 p.m. Eastern). When Devine gets here, Rich Harden will be placed on the disabled list. Geren hasn't officially named Lenny DiNardo the starter for Saturday's game at Cleveland, but he said if DiNardo isn't needed between now and then, he'd be an option.
by oakinboston on Apr 10, 2008 2:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why the phuck don't the A's leave Harden out there
until his arm falls off?! Harden's done for the year anyway so why not let him really injure himself with a torn rotator cuff or elbow ligament and just be done with it.
After 20+ negative results on his arm, one has to wonder if the real problem is Harden's head. Either the dude's a hypochondriac or he has anxiety attacks which make him fake injuries.
by Bacon on Apr 10, 2008 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you...
if we can't trade him, we might as well ruin him for everyone else.
"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 11, 2008 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or he is actually injured.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's always injured
At some point, you either have to just pitch hurt, or not be a baseball player anymore. He's beyond useless on the team.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that he is useless to us, but why would he risk destroying his arm by pitching injured. His arm/shoulder/oblique may already be destroyed, but it would be irresponsible for him to end his career because some bloggers question his mental and physical toughness. He obviously pitched through some pain against Boston and when he brought his discomfort to the attention of the medical staff they shut him down. It is too bad, but maybe we will get to see Gio pitch in his absence.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I'm not serious...
...I'm absolutely not advocating him pitching hurt, just to be clear; I'm just frustrated. I do, however, think perhaps, that baseball is not in his future. At what point do you just accept that you're never going to be healthy enough to pitch?
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Folke did it
'retired' to take the year to get better, not be a drag on his team.
by MobiusKlein on Apr 10, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
I mean...c'mon...you made TWO whole starts? You pitched ten WHOLE innings? He's using medical staff's resources, taking a personal salary, roster spot, etc. etc. and I feel bad for him, I REALLY really do...it's got to be frustrating as hell, but C'MON! This is year what? Four? How many chances do you want to stay healthy?
And then you have the nerve to get annoyed when people asked all through ST how you were feeling? Well, of course we want to know. For us, it's never a question of 'if', it's just waiting for 'when'.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the team can make him pitch
whether he feels healthy or not...
can they say "we're not going to DL you, so go out there and be a man, dammit!"
"Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa."- Casey Stengel
by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 11, 2008 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two observations
First, unless the player contract is worded extremely oddly, he has to make an effort to play for the team until they release him from the terms of the contract. Otherwise the team could probably sue him to recover his earnings. The burden of proof here would be pretty high-- probably the only way this could happen is if he didn't show up at all.
Second, to answer your [rhetorical] question, that point is the point at which a major league team is no longer willing to offer you a paid position as a starting pitcher...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What SHOULD have happened...
...is exploratory surgery about 3 years ago, when it was fairly obvious that this 'nagging' injury never, ever healed. That's what should have happened, but no one would go in to see what really was wrong.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His arm is so destroyed that no doctor in this modern age of medicine and
technology can determine what''s wrong with him?! This makey no sensey.
Rich is a phucking paranoid headcase who's mistaking typical soreness from throwing something repetively to an arm injury.
I say we DFA this little whiny BEOTCH!!!
by Bacon on Apr 10, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yawn....
We ALL saw this one coming. Rinse and repeat.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Apr 10, 2008 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Should have traded him in 2003 when Bily Beane said every GM was calling asking if Harden was available. He allegedly started answering the phone with, "No Harden is not available."
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but, if he was traded in 2003
He would have remained healthy pitching for his new club and everyone would still be asking why we traded this ACE away.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Apr 10, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We would have traded him for the draft rights to Johhny Cueto and Jay Bruce.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Apr 10, 2008 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineups...
...are here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore;_ylt=Am7MnzSWMPLxxS8Y7FweSmARvLYF?gid=280410114
by Dr Pez on Apr 10, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Most importantly....
Let's Go Warriors!!
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Apr 10, 2008 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's go Warriors!
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Apr 10, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy talk
Look let's be reasonable with Rich. It's got to be frustrating to him that he hasn't been able to do the thing he's really good at. Of course he's going to get frustrated being asked questions by fans/reporters that he can't answer for himself. They're the kind of questions that can keep you up nights, if you really love what you do, have freakish skill at it, and just aren't performing up to your talent. It's just got to suck for Harden, too.
He may get better health care and higher "disability" pay with the A's, but remember he's Canadian... he gets medical coverage and could go o the dole. IF he just wanted to sit around and watch baseball, he could say "F it, ayh" and do it from his couch in B.C.
According to a friend of mine who grew up playing baseball with Harden, he was converted from OF to pitcher pretty late. So maybe Harden doesn't have the kind of body that can withstand pitching in the major leagues... You know where I'm going with this, right? Can Harden hit? (Just trying to get our money's worth.)
The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul
by 149 on Apr 10, 2008 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the A's already got their money's worth
Because of the way baseball's salary structure is set up, the team basically got full value for his contract in 2004 alone.
Which is kind of neither here nor there, just an observation.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, then, what's your problem with Harden?
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether or not a given player is a financial bargain
is pretty irrelevant to me as a fan of a team. What I want to know is whether he's a good player or not, and Harden is not a good baseball player, because he doesn't actually play.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 10, 2008 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that, I'm in agreement with
Talented, but not good.
And what did we do once we discovered a rift in the fourth dimension? We launched a monkey into it. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Apr 10, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trying to get Harden to play
by considering him for OF. PT = Value. I was sorta serious about that part. But can't remember a Harden AB. Anyone?
The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul
by 149 on Apr 10, 2008 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
contra costa times confirms
Harden to 15 day DL and Devine callup. However, as of 4 pm PDT this still hadn't shown up on the A's or official MLB site.
by OaklandSi on Apr 10, 2008 4:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Time to chime in
So I'm a long time lurker, first time poster bla, bla, bla. Anyway, I'm not usually one to gripe over things I have no control over, but this guy's a joke! A lat injury? Are you friggin kidding me?
I worked on a loading dock for ten hours a day and guess what? My back constantly hurt. Of course, I kept my mouth shut and kept working to earn my paycheck and not make my fellow workers (who also had to be hurtin') pull any extra weight- pun intended.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't expect him to pull a Meyer and disregard serious arm issues but this is a joke. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far his only medically diagnosed issue was that left shoulder thing a few years ago, everything else has just been "My (fill in the blank) hurts, I quit."
Sweet guy to have on your team.
by Sacred#24 on Apr 10, 2008 4:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn Him!!
I guess I should have prefaced that with the fact that I never miss a Harden start. When he's on the mound he's the best in the AL and a huge lift for our team.
I guess that's the reason we're all frustrated, eah?
by Sacred#24 on Apr 10, 2008 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again ...
We're so ignorant to hang our entire season's hopes on him ...
Sniff, Sniff. "Who Fongpay?"
by Fongpay on Apr 10, 2008 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I hear ya Fongpay. He's the ultimate tease.
by Sacred#24 on Apr 10, 2008 4:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WOW!
This is such an unexpected shock! Honestly, who cares....Harden's Comet comes around once every few years, we run out to the ballpark and he passes by in a flash. See you in October Rich
2008 Oakland Athletics...more than meets the eye!
by OptimistPrime on Apr 10, 2008 5:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In retrospect....
Macha was dead on for his comment of the "non-entity"....
"This is NOT rebuilding. Billy Beane reloaded." -rev
by ST on Apr 10, 2008 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's fine to argue about harden
But in the end, we need him. With Harden, this team has a chance to win the division. He is a legitimate number one, Blanton would be a great number two and Eveland is a good number three. Four and five, Gaudin and Duchscherer or whoever ,looks good too. But this team needs Harden. This team, with Harden, is the 2003 Marlin, a bunch of no-name kids who can win. I think we have to assume that when a guy says he can't pitch, then he can't pitch. Pitching is largely mental anyway, so who wants a guy who thinks he can't pitch. But we are stuck with him.
by wasat71playoffs on Apr 12, 2008 6:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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