Too Many Good Hitters? (Waits For Laughter To Die Down)
by Nico on Mar 4, 2008 3:30 PM PST
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PrintWith an offense as questionable as the A’s, it’s hard to imagine having too much of a good thing. Yet it’s worth noting that the A’s could easily have two contradictory difficulties at once this year: problems scoring enough runs and problems finding enough opportunities for "plus hitters" to get at bats.
Jack Hannahan has come out so far stroking line drive after line drive, which isn’t as surprising when you look at his exceptional "line drive %" in 2007 (23.4%) and then realize that this isn’t some journeyman prospect who was never supposed to be any good – this is a third round draft pick who is finally clean and sober enough to play like his scouting reports once predicted. Meanwhile, you have Eric Chavez who will come back from his surgeries somewhere between a sad shell of his old self and the 30 HR, 100 RBI man who could carry a team during one of his sizzling post All-Star Break surges. Even if the recovery is good but not great, Chavez could present as a slick-fielding 20 HR, 80 RBI man – and the A’s current lineup is not exactly brimming with those.
Jack Cust put up a .912 OPS last year, and has come out in the Cactus League hitting the ball like it called his 2007 a fluke and he wasn’t pleased. Cust could regress a bit (dare I say, strike out even more?) and still be one of the A’s biggest offensive assets. Meanwhile, Mike Sweeney introduced himself to the green and gold with a 3-hit game, and when his back feels good he has terrific major league credentials that include a career .300 average, six 20+ HR seasons, six seasons of RBIs ranging from 83 to 144, and the kind of presence that makes him a logical #4 hitter – and the A’s current lineup is not exactly brimming with those.
If Sweeney were to stay healthy and make the team, yes you could platoon him and Cust and have one of them in the lineup at all times, but how do you sit one of them on a team that is not offensively robust? Health permitting, the A’s lineup needs both Cust’s and Sweeney’s bats, along with Chavez’ power/OBP potential and Hannahan’s line-drive stroke.
So…How are we going to do this: Mike Sweeney in CF, Cust at SS? Hmm…Still working on it...
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It's a good problem to have ...
and unless more goes right, not that hard of one to deal with.
Chavvy starts at third (130 G)
Cust starts in LF (60 G) and backs up DH (80 G)
Sweeney starts at DH (80 G) and backs up 1b (30 G)
Hannahan backs up LF (70 G) and 3b (30 G)
Barton starts at 1b (130 G)
Buck starts in RF (120 G) and backs up CF (30 G)
Denorfia starts in CF (130 G)
Brown backs up LF and RF (30, 40 Gs)
Injuries and what not will obviously affect this, but there's plenty of PT to be had.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Dan Johnson...
Starts at 1B (1 G, and then traded to Reds)
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
Eh
Is there any team LESS in need of a first baseman than the Reds? (Other than Oakland, that is.)
There probably is, but I can't think of it offhand.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yes ... that's true ... there are only so many spots for 1b/DH types ...
I've gotten four of them into the lineup regularly ... I think that may be the limit ...
With Votto and Hatteberg already in the fold -- and no DH spot in the NL -- I don't think the Reds would be a prime suitor for DJ.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Two words... Dusty Baker.
Votto is going to be playing AAA for the season cuz good 'ol DB prefers veterans. I was slightly joking that the Red's would be stupid enough to pick him up from us, but you're looking at Votto from 'our' eyes, not the ones of a manager thats played guys like Marvin Bernard for more years than seemed plausible.
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
Well they've still got Hatty and DJ is hardly a proven vet ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
DB also means ...
... if we're going to trade for any of the Reds young pitchers, we durn well better get 'em before they're promoted to the parent club and Dusty pulls a John Heard-in-Cat People on 'em.
I wasn't thinking about anything. I'll have to try to do that more often. @('.')@
The logical thing
would be to put Cust in the outfield and Sweeny at DH, 3 out of 5 games or something.
But honestly, this kind of thing works itself out as Devo's comment that just popped up says more eloquently than I could.
Mike...
looked really happy to not be a Royal this weekend. He sprinted to second on every pop up. Exactly what I didn't want to see the vets do this spring.
have sweeney
play rotate at catcher too...possibly even third base with chavvy out...heck he can be the new scutaro
This Is A's Brand Country
A typical AL team
has 162x9=1458 "player-games" to allot, which is a lot. Since catchers will typically use two players for 162 of those, you're really looking at 1296 player-games for 11 players. That's nearly 120 games per player if you distribute playing time equally among them.
Another way to conceptualize it is that the A's have 8 players for 6 slots (972 player-games) which is an even higher ratio, 121.5 games a player. The actual number of game appearances will theoretically be even higher if the team uses defensive replacements or pinch-hitters/runners.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE ... LAUGHING!!!
I wasn't thinking about anything. I'll have to try to do that more often. @('.')@
Sweeney/Chavy DH
Whichever one is healthier can have the DH spot, Cust in RF. Barton at 1B, Johnson on the bench until something goes horribly wrong.
"Until something goes horribly wrong"
It's the A's, so in 5... 4... 3... 2...
(Formerly Nobody Girl)
"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane
Hey all: I've posted a few fanshots ...
...from yesterday and today. Apparently you have to click on the titles to see the pics.
Also tried to email a few in real time from my cell phone, so far without success. Technology lurches forward.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
Did you click on the Image tab when posting the FanShots?
I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation
by Trei Brundrett on Mar 4, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Uh...
... I entered the photobucket urls in that blank and gave 'em titles, because it wouldn't post them without it -- altho the first one apparently did (the Unca Buck pic).
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Mar 4, 2008 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
use flickr.com instead of photobucket
it worked way easier for me.
A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!
Well...
Cust in LF
Sweeney at DH
Chavy at 3B
Deal Ellis, and put Hannahan at 2B (hey, he spent a little while there with Detroit)...
Then rotate Cust, Sweeney, and whoever else might want to play LF (Brown, R. Sweeney) when Cust or M. Sweeney when they need a break.
...
Probably not.
=\
ellis is far too valuable defensively to give up. And he's especially not going to be pushed out the door by what may more may not even be an offensive improvement in Hannahan.
Plus, in addition to being one of the few A's that have stayed healthy over the last couple years, Ellis is a clubhouse hero and a veteran presence, these days.
opening day lineup
chavvy at 1st, hannahan at 2nd, ellis at short, barton at third, sweeney the dh, suzuki at catcher, cust in right, brown in left, and stomper as the centerfielder
"This guy threw at his own son in a father-son game." -Harry Doyle from Major League
by greenandgoldpolarbear on Mar 4, 2008 6:02 PM PST reply actions
Hannahan will definitely play shortstop
before Ellis does.
There's no reason to voluntarily give yourself two awful defenders when you could have one great one and one awful one instead.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Having watched Barton "play" third last year in Sac...
...I can assure you that this is a not-so-good idea.
------ 84.6% of all statistics are made up.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/athleticsnationpodcast
by gallopingael on Mar 5, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Sweeney
over the last two seasons has played fewer games than Crosby or Kotsay, and has hit about as well as Dan Johnson.
It seems awfully premature to assume he'll even make the team based on his first three games in spring training.
"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher
As had Frank Thomas in 2004 and 2005
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well said, my friend
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Frank Thomas 2004/2005 OPS+: 156/131
Sweeney 06/07: 102/86
Do we need a backup DH/1B who provides league average offense, kicking a fourth OFer or Hannahan or Murphy off the roster?
The A's colors are green and gold.
I'd take a healthy Mike Sweeney over Emil Brown
in a heartbeat, m'self. Cust as a 4th OFer is acceptable to me if the lineup is sufficiently enhanced.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There's no way
that Brown will get DFAed in preference to optioning one of the young guys down.
And I'm not clear what the benefit of keeping three backup infielders is supposed to be. The only way to get them all at-bats is to repeatedly use them at DH and Cust in the outfield, which will easily make up on defense whatever runs it putatively benefits the team on offense.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Bye Bye
Sweeney is an upgrade from DJ, Barton is an upgrade from DJ...I say we take our chance on Sweeney and FINALLY off-load DJ. Trade him, cut him, whatever. Package him with Chavy and get a new washing machine for the clubhouse. Ok, that was a bit harsh, but I think from a purely baseball viewpoint, numbers to numbers, you show DJ the door.
"Doesn't play well with the other children." Ms. Darias, principal, Broad Ave School
Dan Johnson isn't as bad as people here think
But he's still the worst of the 1B/DH types, so I agree he should be moved at the end of spring training. Not now, but once games are about to start. My reasoning for this: I don't want him moved now for a AA reliever and then Barton and Sweeney get hurt and all of a sudden a deep spot is a weakness. Wes Bankston better not be the opening day 1B is what I'm saying.
As for splitting at bats: I like Mike Sweeney and his cross body blocking ways as much as the next guy, but does anybody remember how frustrating it was having Piazza and Cust both on the 25-man last year? Honestly, a DH platoon with two guys who are, basically, just a DH (I know Cust can play the OF and Sweeney can play 1B, but I don't really want to see either happen) is silly. Especially when there are likely other positions that will be platooned (left field with Brown/R. Sweeney, perhaps?).
I'm not sure how I want the 25-man to look, but I see a lot of guys who I think should make the team and a few won't because Sweeney might take up a spot just to platoon against lefties. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
by thejd44 on Mar 4, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply actions
You know Cust can play OF? Where's the evidence for that proposition?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Mar 4, 2008 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
He has literally stood there before
If you had to catch the ball to play OF, there wouldn't be softball leagues and that would mean no beer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
how about this
cust LF
Sweeney RF
Buck CF
Hannahan SS
Chavez 3B
and the DH ... Barry Bonds
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC
I assume Chavy will open the season on the DL and Hannahan will have to keep this up in order to become a fulltime player. Right know he is in due to injury but when healthy he may be the odd man out and be forced to become a pinch hitter.
Memo to Beane: Bring back Canseco!!!!!
I'm not sure -
Hannahan will never supply "3Bman's power," but despite only looking "good" in the bigs last year all scouting reports from when he was drafted rave about his defensive ability, he has a great eye, and he has shown the line drive stroke to suggest he could hit .300 with "alley-to-alley" (doubles) power. If he can OPS .800 and play great defense, he's here on his own merit. I was skeptical last year but the more I see of Hannahan the more I tend to wonder if he's just a late bloomer, due to personal problems, who could be one of those classic Billy Beane finds (a la Gaudin, Duchscherer, Cust) - guys who have always been good enough but their current organization has forgotten that because the current stats weren't there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Lets hope your right about Jack:
Being one of the Beane clasics (a la Gaudin, Duchscherer, Cust)
Memo to Beane: Bring back Canseco!!!!!
I feel like you're giving him simultaneously too much and too little credit
Too much, on the professional side, for assuming that his struggles to get past AA (he was basically unproductive there for two seasons) weren't simply the result of being outmatched; and too little, on the personal side, for assuming that what was unquestionably some self-damaging behavior in college has carried over into the pros (which I haven't seen evidence of-- as far as I can tell, he's still "on the wagon").
I'd be more inclined to say he could just be a late bloomer and leave it at that.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It was a tough nick choice
Hannahan and Gaudin are my two favorite Beane love children. Cust not as much since Beane had him and let him go and thennnn got him back and let him play as needed. It wasn't quite the same stroke of Beanius as the others.
Cust was injured
and had his worst season with Oakland.
It wasn't at all clear at the time that he'd return to his prior form.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yeah, but if Billy is a genius
for acquiring Cust he's also a fool for letting him go - he should have seen that it was just the injury, while 29 other teams thought it was just Cust. Thus, one has to conclude that Billy is a Benius but Beane is a Billiot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nice line, but
I don't see why a guy showing injured would not reduce his value. I mean, you can play the "should have signed him" game with minor league free agents all day long whenever one of them works out. Which is not very often.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
if Chavez has a surge ...
... does that mean we'll be stuck with him for 100 years?
I wasn't thinking about anything. I'll have to try to do that more often. @('.')@
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