Think what you want
by athleticsgirl24 on Mar 30, 2008 12:28 AM PDT
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PrintEVERYONE, for as long as I have been on AN, has been a part of the "Joe Morgan Sucks Train"; Weither it's "FireJoeMorgan.Com" or critiscising his commentary of A's games. He talks shit about us. We don't steal enough, or bunt enough. Has anyone ever even glipsed at, Baseball for Dummies"? I know the answer is, "Yes" because we've talked about it on AN before. And now I'm being told it was classless, etc? So be it!!! I have done more than enough to support the A's in the South tonight. I have talked to more Yankees fans, Mets fans, Cubs fans, and White Sox fans. than I have done in my entire life. I have worn my Oakland, Nick Swisher jersey proudly tonight, when I walked around Memphis, I have worn my A's sweatshirt. I have been the only female that has shown some love of a sport tonight. I have shown my A's tattoo in pride, so AN, think what you want about me telling Joe Morgan he sucked. I'm ok with it. I'm glad I did it. Someone who talks shit about the team you love should be told how you feel. I'm sorry that I thought a group of fans that would be proud of me, are now ashamed. You'll all make fun of me for thinking I'm a martyr now. I really don't care........
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Whats wrong with telling Morgan he sucks?
If you can say it on here, why can't you say it to his face? If you can talk shit behind his back but not infront of him, you're a coward and a two faced liar.
So yes, I salute you, though I do wish you had put it in more eloquent prose, if only because " SUCKS!> is kind of an overused and unimaginative taunt.
Oh the Internet.
How serious it has become.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Not EVERYONE on AN has
been part of the Joe Morgan Sucks Train - I've always enjoyed him with Jon Miller, personally. Great rapport with Jon, pleasant personality, knows the game better than Gary Thorne, less abrasive (to me) than Tim McCarver, offers more insights than his detractors give him credit for because they focus on his flaws.
As for telling him to his face "You suck" - no "high fives" from me for that. Save that kind of meanness for the internet - yes, it's cowardly but it's also a victimless crime compared to upsetting the person himself when he's just trying to walk down the street.
And yes, I'm a hypocrite. Some of you probably caught me at Safeway yesterday, watching the checker put a container of whip cream on top of a head of lettuce and screaming at him, "YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!"
What was the whip cream for? None of your business.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I can stand Joe
I don't, however, care for the way he stereotypes the A's based on a book he may have never read (and if he had, clearly did not understand). But there are worse things in life, I suppose. He does work well with Miller, no question. I didn't care too much for him as a Red, but I was an A's fan in the70's, I wasn't supposed to care for any of the Reds. I do know and appreciate his place in baseball, and his Bay Area roots. I also find him to be at his best when other former athletes are in the booth, and Morgan can go from announcer to "just one of the guys", who just happened to play this game at a very high level.
As for the comment you made, no harm. I'm sure it's not the first time Joe has heard it.
I'm here to talk about the past.
I have not been on the "Joe Morgan sucks" train.
In fact I don't recall being on a train for anyone sucking. The closest may be my criticism of the A's revenue generation capabilities. I hope those criticisms have been specific and not of the "you suck" variety. If not, then I hope someone points it out to me.
It's not that AN worships at the alter of Joe.
But the man was a great ballplayer. So good of a ballplayer that he warranted placement in the hall of fame. Don't forget that he came up and played the game in a very difficult era for black Americans. Joe probably has legitimate grievances with a lot of people from the past....yet he doesn't use the platform he's been given to to vent at former enemies or to exact a measure of revenge from those who did him wrong. He goes about his current duties with dignity. He has a nice "on air" personality, he laughs with the other broadcasters, and he tells some great old time baseball stories. In short, he's still entertaining us. So he deserves some consideration.
All this is not to say that you couldn't have expressed your opinion on Joe's views. He may have even welcomed an exchange with a fan from the Bay area. That would have been a far more pleasant exchange for both you and him. Joe's created a body of work over a lifetime that should be respected. His opinion of the A''s or Moneyball is fair game....but the man himself shouldn't be accosted with personal insults on the street corner, especially from a pretty young lady. Because even if he was inclined to verbally defend himself, his position, his personality, and his upbringing wouldn't allow him to.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Don't forget that he came up and played the game in a very difficult era for black Americans.
So difficult, apparently, that it's scarred him into becoming arguably the most racist commentator in sports today.
yet he doesn't use the platform he's been given to to vent at former enemies or to exact a measure of revenge from those who did him wrong.
You're kidding, right?
Have you LISTENED to a Joe Morgan broadcast? He goes after people he dislikes all the time. The guy is about as far from an objective observer as it's possible to get.
If he was just incompetent at his job, that would be one thing. To take a somewhat recent example, I came to believe that Ben Braun, the Cal basketball coach, needed to be replaced, because he wasn't maximizing the talent he had. But he seems like a genuinely nice guy, and I wouldn't think of yelling "you suck" at him in person.
Joe Morgan is, as far as I can tell, a genuinely loathsome jerk.
He may have even welcomed an exchange with a fan from the Bay area.
Poppycock. Morgan has shown on numerous occasions that he's utterly uninterested in any kind of intellectual exchange. He knows what he thinks, and he won't hear otherwise from anyone. If you haven't read that SF Weekly piece from a few years back, I would strongly suggest you do so. It's pretty much what moved me from merely thinking Morgan was incompetent to thinking he "sucked," as the OP put it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
someone just argued he was, didn't they?
Ergo, the position is arguable.
As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@
It's come up a number of times
but the example that sticks out in my mind is from the World Baseball Classic final, where seemingly every other comment was something about "passionate" Cuban players or "calculating" Japanese. I was genuinely offended by how grossly stereotypical he was.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
You forgot weak-kneed Frenchmen, gritty Mexicans, and flamboyant Dominicans
I agree that's obnoxious, but I'm not sure I'm willing to make the jump from there to "racist". Because then I'd be forced to apply that label pretty liberally, given the general haze of thickheadedness that predominates out there in the world. I'll give you "obtuse" or "apathetic", but I think I need to see something a lot more egregious before conceding "racist".
Like this, perhaps:
rush transcript
Miller: "Bobby Crosby swiiiings and misses at a pitch low and away, inning over, seventeenth strikeout for Byrd, perfect game still intact, the Ja ... Progressive Field is rocking! We go to the bottom of the eighth!"
Morgan: "Wait, Jon, before we go to commercial ..."
Miller: "Oh, uh, Joe, well. Sure, okay."
Morgan: "I do not like white people."
Miller: "Even me?"
Morgan: "Even you."
Even there I have to defend Morgan -
What if the commercial was more racist than even that comment, and Joe was sparing us, for as long as possible, from seeing it?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Shrug
My opinion is that comments playing off common racial stereotypes constitutes a form of racism. That's really all I can say. By my definition, Morgan is a racist, and a scumbag for being so. (And for various other reasons enumerated here and elsewhere.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
allow me to retract my response to you in the previous thread
When you said that Morgan had built an entire career on being a bad person, I could have sworn you were kidding.
Joe Morgan (who has no idea of how to "analyze" baseball, and is heavily invested in misrepresenting a book and system of thought he is unwilling to comprehend) built an entire career on being a Hall of Fame baseball player. And the great gods of tv, as they are wont to do, rewarded the uncommonly articulate ex-jock (and I say both "articulate" and "uncommonly" solely in the contexts of ex-jockness, and my usage of "articulate" is limited to the sense that Joe is very comfortable, smooth, and professional when speaking on-mic and on-camera in front of millions of people, which is a skill not many people have) with a sinecure talkin' 'bout baseball for a living. He's not being paid to be John Freakin Kenneth Galbraith. He's not being paid to wrestle with the great moral profundities of our day.
His current sinecure is a reward for his playing days. In so far as he considers it a professional calling, he has obviously worked at hard at perfecting those tasks which are asked of him -- none of which include being "true" or intellectually challenging or academically rigorous.
And he may well be an utter douchebag in his personal life. I don't know, I don't care, and I'm pretty sure you can't ascertain that by a hacky profile in a free weekly.
As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@
Apparently "those tasks which are asked of him"
do not include "developing a basic knowledge of the players and teams that he is asked to analyze."
That, at least, is not his fault. It's the fault of ESPN and, indirectly, the viewing audience.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'll bet he knows more about Dale Barton than Thorne does
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So,
is it proper to say "in so far" or "insofar"? I've been using the latter, but now my confidence has been shaken, and I'm thinking that I might have been making a horrendous grammatical error my entire adult life. I probably write "insofar" twice a month or so ... that's two dozen blunders a year, every year since maybe eighth grade, the majority embedded within missives/essays/posts/emails that other people have read ... meaning that, given the viral nature of 21st century communication, something like 720 million people have, at some point during the past decade or so, mocked my bizarre habit of mashing together three words that by all rights ought to have spaces between them ... though of course no one has corrected me, which I suppose could be symptomatic of malaise or ignorance or distraction, but is more likely some kind of nefarious plot to string me along year after year, everyone complicit, Truman Show-style, goading me into the mistake, relishing the stumbles, cackling and snorting and rolling their eyes, Ed Harris in the control tower, Laura Linney ... well, I don't know anyone who looks like Laura Linney, but you get the picture.
I think the most important advice is to go with
"in so far" whenever you are writing a fanpost that is otherwise 297 words.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Go with the one word
Not only do I believe it to be GC but there are too many cases where we string these otherwise lonely words together to make it mean something, like "by the way" or "be that as it may".
I'm here to talk about the past.
PT, I'm opposed to public rudeness
on general principle. Which is all the more ironic because I make a living being quite rude. But I am generally civil enough that I wait until the other party starts down that path before I respond in kind. Now, having seen you post frequently, I realize social grace isn't one of your strong points. That's perfectly fine by me, but it's a shame because it detracts from what would otherwise be interesting exchanges of ideas and opinions.
I'm going to assume that you do not know Joe Morgan any more than I do. So any opinions either of us form of the man can only be based upon his public persona. I've never seen or heard Joe make issue of his or anyone else's race. He has on occasion related tales of his experience, and often those experiences involve race. Despite the hatred he was exposed to as a player, he has never to my knowledge responded in kind. Joe has many opinions with which I disagree, but that hardly warrants insulting him or implying that he's incompetent. As a ballplayer, he was anything but incompetent. As a broadcaster, he does a pretty fair job. As for the new management practices invading baseball......well, he's from another generation. A generation that is like all the others before it....resistant to change. So what. If you must pass judgement on the man, have the decency to do so within the context of his times.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Listen to him talk about Gary Sheffield
and then tell me that he doesn't draw judgments about people based on race.
As for incompetence, the worthies at FJM have done a far better job than I ever could. He's a shockingly lazy "analyst." I guess racial stereotyping is just another symptom of this-- he'd rather use generalizations about a person's race than actually take the effort to find out anything about them, just as he'd rather use generalizations about ballplayers than actually learn about their game.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Now see...
here's where we agree. Based on Sheffield's public persona, he is indeed a loathsome character. But good ole Joe sticks up for ballplayers of any color or stripe....with the possible exception of John Rocker.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
The good worthies at FJM
throw stones despite living in glass houses.
Their "critiques" are often worse than the articles they are critiquing. Their "analysis" is often embarrassing.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Their jobs,
both in the real world and in their FJM "personas," are as humorists. (A role which they fulfill rather well, thanks.) Their analysis is occasionally amateurish, as you would expect from people who are, you know, amateurs.
Morgan's "analysis" is pretty much always amateurish despite him being a professional analyst.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Their "analysis"
is a significant part of their attempts at humour. Take out their "analysis", and they would have no articles.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I'm beginning to wonder whether you've actually ever read the site
The correct version of the above is "take out their 'analysis', and they would have about .8-.9 times as many articles." Since I estimate only 10-20% of their posts use or require any kind of statistics at all.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
i look forward to the next seven fanposts on this important issue
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
*nods*
Indeed.
I'm putting my own series of fanposts, "Hygeine products used by BWH" on hold until this reaches its conclusion.
First up will be, "Old Spice Fresh High Endurance Body Wash." A brief excerpt;
The dense and pleasant aromas of the gel burst when poured onto the washcloth. Upon contact with the skin, the olfactory epithelium is transformed into a lively dancefloor that leaves the washee feeling cleansed and relaxed.
Go A's!
Formerly known as hward86.
Like, $6-7.
I was an Irish Spring man for years (because it's so cheap), but decided to spend the little extra cash to make my soap match my deodorant. You know, to avoid combining multiple scents. Doing that can go wrong in a hurry.
Formerly known as hward86.
EVERYONE,
for as long as I've been on AN, has always like derided stupid breathless pointless fanposts, and I don't know why!!!! I have a Mickey Klutts tattoo and I have represented the A's!! and I love them and I hate people who are stupid and don't love them and now I'm just a martyr.;!! And anyway, even though this ridiculous hyperventilating spasm of a fanpost may make it seem like I care, I don't! I really really don't!!! Maybe you should all open your copies of Baseball for Dummies, right to the page where it says if someone sucks you should tell them YOU SUCK no matter what because they do suck and they made you mad and that sucks and it sucks to have stuff sucking all the time. Did I mention I really don't care..........?
Joe Morgan is a decent man
I have been a youth sports coach for 13 years now. The 'team' I was in charge of was a T-Ball and youth baseball team for the Parks department for the City of Oakland. All of the uniforms, bats and other equipment used by nearly 20 teams were paid for by Joe Morgan.
Nobody should yell "You Suck" at anyone. If someone has a problem with Joe Morgan then they should address them in a more polite manner.
"Pardon me, Mr. Morgan. Allow me to opine, if I may,
that you are a tiresome windbag."
by Ray of Lite on Mar 31, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm really curious how old you are
As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@
I Have Always Found It Interesting
when I hear comments that people think Joe Morgan is a poor Analyst. I'm not hip to his personal life and probably miss the comments that may be bias towards teams, players or groups of people.
However, I can't imagine anyone questioning, not only his knowledge of the game, but his ability to pick out small nuances that, for me at least, bring a tremendous enjoyement in watching his broadcasts.
He is an analyst and his job is to provide insight to the game...something that I would argue that Joe Morgan, very likely is the best at in the business now or compared to any analyst that preceded him.
Joe knows Baseball.
Listening to Joe Morgan talk about a baseball game
is like listening to a scout talk about a high school contest.
He knows a fair amount about baseball technique, but it's obvious he's never seen these guys before in his life.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yes, he has the humility
to say I don't know. If only more wannabe stathead analysts, like the good worthies on FJM had such humility.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Humility is no excuse for incompetence
I mean, I could get a job as a nuclear physicist and then answer every question someone asks me with "well, I've never seen this equation before, but..."
That would be pretty humble, all right. Would you approve of me doing that?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yes, especially if you were blind.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Of course, if Morgan
actually says that he does not know on every question, then your analogy would be apt.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Hey
Let it roll off your back. Ok, so walking up to another human being and yelling "You Suck" is probably not the most admirable thing in the world, it really does not matter what everyone on here thinks, is it? I mean, you are an adult and responsible for your own decisions. This is a forum of fans, and thus, we are all going to be inclined to have an opinion about our team and about other's expressions. I can't seem to crack a joke without alienating 23.4% of the AN nation, but not everyone gets my sarcasm. Does it hurt my feelings? Sure, but for every 23.4% who don't get it or get offended 785.3% laugh or agree. So, I guess what I am saying is, if you are going to post something here, just know that you are never going to get EVERYONE agreeing with you or cheering you. It just is what it is. Have fun! It's just a blog on the internet!
"Doesn't play well with the other children." Ms. Darias, principal, Broad Ave School
I think it was pretty sweet
I don't feel sympathy for Joe Morgan, he has tons of admirers and has lived an illustrious life. He goes around claiming to know things about the game that he doesn't because the truth goes into conflict with his baseball identity, and no doubt extends to his self-identity.
Props to you for reminding him that he does, in fact, suck.
I think it was pretty sweet
I don't feel sympathy for Joe Morgan, he has tons of admirers and has lived an illustrious life. He goes around claiming to know things about the game that he doesn't because the truth goes into conflict with his baseball identity, and no doubt extends to his self-identity.
Props to you for reminding him that he does, in fact, suck.
YOU SUCK
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm just glad that's an arm going out of his mouth.
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick (AN), 10/7/07
But isn't that
"No you DON'T suck"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This entire thread is a collection of 'DO NOT WANT'
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick (AN), 10/7/07
Joe Morgan is a moron and I'd do the same thing.
The people here criticizing you for your comments to Joe Morgan would be the first to say the same in front of the president or any other public figure / official they despise or dislike. The word hypocrite comes to mind. So yeah girl, exercise your freedom of speech. JOE MORGAN, YOU SUCK !
First of all, Joe Morgan has done less harm
than despisable presidents have. Second of all, JOE MORGAN, YOUR BROADCASTING SUCKS! is different from JOE MORGAN, YOU SUCK! The first is unnecessary, the second just childish. Actually, they're both childish.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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