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Around SBN: Spencer Hall's College Football Week 12 Alphabetical

Breaking News - CarGon to AAA

As per Ken Korach on the radio broadcast, Carlos Gonzalez, Jeff Fiorentino and Dallas Braden were just optioned to Triple-A Sacramento! That should put those rumors to rest. And oh yeah, the A's just beat the Giants 6-2 on the strength of a strong starting performance by Justin Duchscherer (6 innings, 1 run, 2 K's, 1 BB), a 2-run homer by Emil Brown and a series of defensive gaffes by the Giants that led to three un-earned runs in the bottom of the 6th.

But the big story is, the A's 25-man roster for Opening Day now looks like this:

SP - Blanton

SP - Harden

SP - Duke

SP - Eveland

RP - Street

RP - Foulke

RP - Embree

RP - Brown

RP - Casilla

RP - Hernandez

RP - DiNardo

RF - Buck

CF - Denorfia

LF - Brown

1B - Barton

2B - Ellis

SS - Crosby

3B - Hannahan

C - Suzuki

DH - Cust

INF - Murphy

INF - DJ

INF - M Sweeney

OF - R Sweeney

C - Bowen

Gaudin & Chavez to start the regular season on the DL.

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Well, that was fun while it lasted.

See you in ~June, CarGon.

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by HigherPie on Mar 29, 2008 3:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

unusual as far as rumors go

as it was based on an interview with Carlos. I'm guessing Beane told him it he was still being considered to start April 1 as the centerfielder (which is indicated by his being on the 28 man list earlier this week). Carlos may have assumed that it only hinged on his proving his hamstring was 100%.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 3:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

or perhaps it was based on an "interview"

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DJ?...I just didn't see it

Barton, Sweeney, M., Cust, DJ......that's 3 1B, 3 DH....1 pseudo OF. I thought they could use another middle IF until (if) Chavez gets back. I believed Conrad had a real shot with his torrid spring.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Mar 29, 2008 3:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Going with 11 pitchers for now

But if Barton's wrist is OK, I don't see how DJ is not the player who gets cut when they activate Gaudin to make that start on April 12 in Cleveland.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DJ is out of options

I don't think the A's want to just give him away.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 3:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

And, for now, it doesn't really hurt to keep him on the roster. It's not as though he's taking at bats away from somebody (because whether it's Conrad or some other IF, whoever gets that spot is sitting on the bench. In AAA they're getting playing time).

I'm sure Beane is busting his butt trying to find somebody to take him. But look at last year: everybody thought Kielty could have been moved for something and they ended up just releasing him because nobody was willing to give up a prospect for the guy.

Something I thought would've been cool, if not impossible: I wanted DJ to get in the first two games in Japan, then get traded to a team other than Boston. That team would then play him every game this season (including a one-game playoff) and he would tie the record for most games in a season at 165. Ok, so, that's a stretch. But still, it'd be kinda neat.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope when the A's were in Japan

DJ took the opportunity to make some phone calls to the Japanese teams. He could be playing 1B for the Hiroshima Carp or the Orix Blue Wave sooner than you think.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maury Wills played 165 for LA in 1962

according to baseball-almanac.com
dunno the circumstances...

by oakinboston on Mar 30, 2008 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

there was a three-game playoff

to decide the pennant. (now they play one game to break a tie)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Mar 30, 2008 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They'd rather not

just give him away, sure. They'd also rather not keep him on the team where he is useless just for the hell of it. Giving him away would/will be fine.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone know if there is anything wrong with Street?

He might just be suffering from Jet Lag. It looks like he has lost aroung 4mph off his fastball and he is not hitting his spots. Just ask Barry Zito what happens to a pitcher under those circumstances

by Athletic on Mar 29, 2008 3:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

DJ has to go

I sure hope he's gone when Gaudin comes on, but I don't like 12 pitchers either. I think they need another middle infielder. But I don't they can find a taker for DJ.

by sacto on Mar 29, 2008 3:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

the past few years they've gone with 12 pitchers

for most of the season. That also seems to be what a lot of teams are doing now.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's more important if you have LOOGYs

But the A's lefties (DiNaro and Embree) aren't the types that can only face left-handed hitters. In fact, I seem to recall that Embree is actually better against right-handed hitters.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think DiNardo is the one with better splits against righties:

2007 stats:
Dinardo vs. righties - .723 OPS against
Dinardo vs. lefties - .831 OPS against

Embree vs. righties - .720
Embree vs. lefties - .578

Same difference though.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

CarGo

I'm glad they sent him down. If he was up then Denorfia was basically a waste.....and BB didn't trade for him for nothing. I don't think BB was expecting the world from Denorfia during the spring seeing as the kid as been out of baseball a year.

by capper3 on Mar 29, 2008 4:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Final Roster?

Official Release

Release did not read final roster; maybe BB is hoping something shakes out between today and tomorrow.

Knoedler, Conrad, and Linden still in camp for tomorrow's game.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Mar 29, 2008 4:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Beane is keeping Linden around as long as possible

just to mess with his head. "This is what being a major leaguer is like. Kinda. I bet you wish you were staying, jerk."

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anger Management

...gee, this Linden thing is yesterday's news and its been pretty well accepted that Linden did not cross any line in his comments...now you come out with this statement...are you harboring personal anger issues and using Linden's situation to feed your inner demons? Bitter, bitter, bitter person...

by BleacherGuy on Mar 29, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Pretty well accepted" by whom?

Linden crossed the line and showed his true colors. I had barely heard of him until he joined the A's, so, no, there's no personal anything going on here except what's coming from you.

So, I should ask, what crawled up your backside, took a large bite, and drove you to post what I consider a personal attack? Hmm?

And whatever did it clearly sucked any sense of humor you may have had out of your body, because anybody else could easily tell my post was in jest. Or, you know, maybe just those with simple reading comprehension skills and half a brain.

Your post pissed me off. Don't reply to me anymore.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those 3 guys are still on the 28-man extended roster through tomorrow.

But Korach said that the above roster will likely be the 25-man cut announced tomorrow at noon.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did Conrad get reassigned?

I can't find anywhere that he did. I believe he is still one of three non-roster invites still with the club. Maybe Billy is looking to keep him and dump DJ.

by HRH on Mar 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No, still in camp

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Mar 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Curious.....

No suitors for DJ yet. I thought there were a few teams that could use a first basemen with a decent glove and solid pop from the bat. He did not have a good spring but you would think "someone" would want him, right?

I'm in favor of CG going down to Sacto and getting his swing intact. From what I saw he needs to work on a little patience at the plate and pitch recognition. But man is that kid looking promising..........

I thought Duke looked tremendous today and I'm really excited to see him in the rotation, so good for you Duke!
Bullpen is gonna be tremendous for the A's this year as well and if our starters keep us in games this year the bullpen is gonna be really hard to beat in my opinion. Great balance between the L and R and you have multiple closers in Street, Foulke, and Embree. Hell, you could even have Brown or Casilla close in an emergency and that aint to shabby people! My only concern is Street's velocity dropping way down and his slider isn't breaking as nasty as it has in the past.....just hope he does not blow his elbow out again.....Go A's!

by mrod on Mar 29, 2008 4:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Slusser reporting that Carlos

took the news well. He just said he'd work hard to get back.

attaboy, we'll see him sooner rather than later.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 4:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He better take the news well

He's just a kid with a bright future. Getting sent down here is in no way an indictment of his ability.

As much as I've been outspoken against Linden's bitchfest, his is a little more understandable. He's running out of time to prove himself, thought this was his chance, and just reacted poorly to bad news. This really isn't bad news for Gonzalez.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DJ stays because of Barton's wrist?

According to Slusser

Has there been an update? I didn't catch the game

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Mar 29, 2008 4:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nobody's said anything on the radio yet

but Barton has been bothered on and off by that injury since last season.

This doesn't sound good to me.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slusser update in the Drumbeat column

Oh, and a quick update of today's earlier item: Barton said that he was held out a precaution because the cold weather has made his old left hand injury tighten up a little bit. He said he will be playing on Tuesday night in the home opener

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a precaution

they are starting CPR as well.

Not that they admit that Barton has 'heart valve related pumping impediments'

by MobiusKlein on Mar 29, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because Tuesday night will be nice & warm?

"There is an HR in Hanrahan." ~ mikeA

by Poppy on Mar 29, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

annndddd...

This is one of the mildest areas, weather-wise out of the entire country, so that's only 80ish more games to worry about. Sweet!

Sunshine Biscuits? Yes, please.

by pam5981 on Mar 30, 2008 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

80ish, are you kidding?

The A's only have 79 games at the Coliseum this year - what, do some teams get more in their home park?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 30, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

...they told Linden he was going to start too CarGon. But the good news is that he has a bright future and the RiverCats are going to be amazing this year.

Chavez who?

You don't know Jack!

by HANrAHANFrAN on Mar 29, 2008 4:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

They told Linden he was going to start?

I didn't get that memo. Apparently, nobody else with the A's did, either.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buan reporting that Dave Stewart

is pitching BP to someone right now (after the game).

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Apparently quite a few '70s and '80s players

will be part of the pregame ceremonies on Tuesday night. Fosse mentioned on radio today that Sal Bando will be there, and I think I saw Joe Rudi's name as well. And of course Dick Williams will be honored as the official rosterbater for his Hall of Fame selection.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Williams will be joining a select group that includes ...

Pee Wee Herman Reese.

No word on whether Red Sox scout Jesse Levis is planning to come.

Guiness Stout

by Ice Cream on Mar 29, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Planning to what?

No, Jesse will just watch from behind a curtain in a luxury box.

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Kiko Calero

He's on the 60 day dl to allow the roster spot to Mike Sweeney.

by Coffee13eans on Mar 29, 2008 4:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Barton...

is going to have an OPS of .650 in two months, and he may very well be back in Sacramento, which is where I wish he was anyway until he proves he can OPS 1.000 there over a full season. His MLEs don't suggest that he'll be a league-average hitting first baseman in the major leagues yet. Our community is over-hyping him a bit, and understandably so - he had a great September and we're excited to see the youth movement. Plus we've been anticipating his arrival ever since we lost Mulder.

But I doubt he's ready to be an impact contributor. I think in two months we'll all be glad that we didn't simply cut DJ and get no return.

Plus, if we send Barton down and then he suddenly needs surgery on that wrist, we don't burn a year of his service time and he only makes $4 grand a month, instead of his $400K full-year salary.
Sound familiar, Brad Halsey? :)

"I still say put Jack Cust on some roller skates, arm him with a squeeze tube of epoxy, and let him loose in CF...righteous!" -MRod

by notsellingjeans on Mar 29, 2008 5:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Que?

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Mar 29, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're the GM

and you require that your AAA players "prove that they can OPS 1.000 at AAA over a full season" before they displace a player like Dan Johnson in the major leagues...you have a whole lot of P.O.ed players in AAA who hate playing for your organization.

I agree that a lot of the AN projections for Barton are too optimistic...but DJ instead of Barton? Good grief...that's disrespectful both to Barton and to the fan base.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OPS of .650 over two months?

I understand your point and you may be on to something, especially with the lingering injury issues, but come on! Such an understatement of Barton's abilities would imply that Daric will be slugging around .300 in those two months, since with his plate patience he'll easily be able to get on-base at around a .350 clip. Sure, he will probably not hit for a lot of power but something close to or exceeding a .400 slugging % is certainly expected of him, giving him a much more realistic OPS of .750.

With DJ still around and Mike Sweeney now on the team, Barton will get plenty of time to rest if his wrist flares up, which should also help him keep his stats at respectable levels, since he obviously won't be playing when he's not 100%.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then again, give someone a hand injury

and they could become Jason Kendall. Well except for Kendall - he'd become Neifi Perez. Neifi would become Zito. And Zito would become me.

And I'd become me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The wrist thing is a wildcard, but....

a .650 OPS is just a ludicrous prediction. I would give that ~5%.

His MLEs don't suggest that he'll be a league-average hitting first baseman in the major leagues yet.

False.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7282
PECOTA had never been the most enthusiastic Daric Barton fan; last year, he ranked just 57th on our Top 100 list, with an Upside score of just 73.7. This year, his score has more than doubled, and he’ll be comfortably within our Top 10. So what has changed? For one thing, Barton had a pretty good year. Between his time in Sacramento and a very productive 84 PAs in Oakland, Barton’s combined equivalent batting line was .276/.369/.441. For comparison, major league first basemen combined last season to hit .276/.357/.463. In other words, Barton performed last year as a major league-average first baseman—a little ahead of the curve in OBP, and a little behind in slugging. When a player does that in his age-21 season, he has a very strong likelihood of being a good major league regular, and some potential to be a star.

The projections pretty much all project that he'll be around a league average first baseman. He also is less in need of extra polish than almost any other hitter in his position.
And how long must he prove he can be a 1.000 OPS hitter in AAA before he should get called up? A month? He had a 1.000+ OPS for a month in Oakland last year!

And who's to say they're not cutting DJ? Are they going to go with 11 pitchers like they haven't done in the last 10 years? I really can't imagine that DJ will be staying around past Gaudin's return unless the wrist injury appears to be a serious problem. And Sweeney is a 1B who they seem to like better than DJ anyway if it comes to that. If DJ is still around, we'll be saying "Gee, that sucks that Barton got injured so we have to watch DJ," not "I'm glad." Barton's 400K salary is just not a big deal.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That BP Article was Very Encouraging

And with that and almost every other projection system giving Barton close to or exceeding an .800 OPS over the full season, I don't see the logic in sending him down at all this season, even if he has a month of a .650 OPS, which is possible with the wrist injury, but certainly not plausible long-term.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 29, 2008 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NSJ is probably

referring to Barton's 2007 MLE in the minors.Barton's overall line is jacked up by his 186 OPS+ stint in MLB.

His 2007 AAA translated EQA was 261. 260 is average. But average 1b are usually around 275-280.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 30, 2008 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect that also leaves off the AAA playoffs

Add those in and his season line at AAA looks way more impressive.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 30, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

interesting you should say this

it had occurred to me this week that perhaps Barton might spend some time again in AAA. DJ and Sweeney can probably handle first for a while.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It occurred to me

this week when he was batting third in the first two games of the season that maybe he is going to spend some time in the majors.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and it occurred to me

that he might not be ready to do that

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense, man

but rooting for a guy who really hasn't made a whole lot of money yet to get sent down to AAA and hosed out of a decent salary is, frankly, asinine.

It's also a breach of the CBA for a team to send an injured player to AAA. That's probably the single most frequent cause of union grievances, and it's a great way to get players really, really pissed off at you.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 29, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I accept what you say...

How is it that teams send injured players down to "rehab"?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 29, 2008 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those guys aren't losing big-league service time

Players who are on the MLB DL can rehab in the minors, but they're still getting paid their normal salary.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 29, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I think Barton is truly the real deal. People often cite certain prospects as prospering in the MLB environment -- take Hanley Ramirez for example. Judging by Barton's approach at the plate I could easily see him making quick adjustments and producing. 4 BB's in 2 games, I love it.

by ChadGod on Mar 29, 2008 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Barton's pedestrian numbers much of last year

were due to boredom - as was his great September the presence of being challenged again. He had outgrown AAA - at age 21 (!). If healthy, I think he'll do great in the bigs this year. Please be healthy!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know that in your opinion

every team should aggressively play the service time game, but "which is where I wish he was anyway until he proves he can OPS 1.000 there over a full season.", is blatantly ridiculous.

Dan Johnson too has never OPSed 1000 over a full season in AAA, or anywhere in the minors. So, send him down?

Prince Fielder has never OPS 1000 over a full season in AAA, or anywhere in the minors. The Brewers should send him down to the minors, I suppose? The Brewers should have held him back in the minors until he OPSed 1000? Afterall "don't burn a year of his service time and he only makes $4 grand a month, instead of his $400K full-year salary."

You can argue back and forth whether Barton should be in the minors, yes. But requiring him or any prospect to OPS 1000 in AAA for a full season before promotion to the majors is idiotically stupid.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 30, 2008 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had read the Nate Silver article that was referenced above...

I'm just not as bullish about Barton (this year) as Silver/PECOTA are. PECOTA's a projection system, not an oracle. It's the best one out there, and it's a great tool. No one should take it as the gospel, because it'll "miss" on plenty of players this year, but certainly it's a good tool. But it also made a projection on Barton before he had a nagging wrist injury, which makes that projection even further from rock-solid, as I'm sure Nate would tell you himself. If he re-did a projection for Barton now using the information he has now, it would be adjusted downward.

As for this...

Dan Johnson too has never OPSed 1000 over a full season in AAA, or anywhe

just natural, male, physical growth. You and I, and most males who continued to work out, were probably better athletes at age 23 than we were at 21. He will make the same physical growth in Sacramento, where he can also develop more power and learn how to hit lefties more effectively.

If he's bored down there, that's a character flaw. There's certainly things for him to work on. He'd be making approximately $40-50K to play baseball at age 22. And he plays in a crown jewel of a AAA ballpark in Sacramento and living in a nice city. There's no need to feel sorry for him any more than there is for Prince Fielder or anyone else who complained about being re-newed this year for near the league minimum. They all chose this profession and signed a contract. One day they will reach FA and win their rightful contractual freedom. And I will never bemoan what anyone makes in FA for exactly that reason - it's simply how the financial structure of the profession they chose works. But you take the sour with the sweet. It means that some 22-year-olds lose out on some money by being optioned down to the minor leagues, even if they are as good as the person in front of them. That's the real world, too - sometimes a person with less potential gets the job.

But this isn't a service-time issue alone. It's also a merit issue, of forcing a 22-year-old to absolutely dominate in order to break through the door. But the secondary issues are salaries, Johnson's lack of minor league options, and this one, which most of you will probably disagree with:

Dan Johnson and Daric Barton are currently about the same hitter. We don't think that way, because we've been perpetually disappointed by DJ, and because it's human nature to be tantalized by the new and the unknown. So we think that one of them sucks and should be discarded, and that the other is much, much better. But they are likely to perform fairly close to the same, if both were given this entire season to play every day at first base. I personally think DJ would out-perform him.

Daric Barton OPSed .823 last year in 602 AAA plate appearances in a hitter's league. Those numbers do not translate to a high-quality big-league first basemen yet, no matter how they are twisted.
Dan Johnson put up an OPS of .937 in his last full season at Sacramento, in '04. And he's never done worse than that in any of his subsequent AAA stops. The difference was/is, at age 28 now, and even when he was 26 and 27, Johnson had a heck of a lot less to gain from subsequent seasons in AAA than Barton does now, because of the physical maturation issue I discussed earlier.

And hey, Jack Cust finally broke through at age 28. If anyone's going to be patient with a hitter, it's Beane.

I think Dan Johnson, during his age 28-29 season, can post an .800 OPS over a full season and play good defense at first base, if he stays healthy. If he could do that, he would have decent trade value. And by '09, Daric Barton would've compiled at least a .900 OPS in AAA, and perhaps higher, and would be that much more ready for the big leagues, instead of having a Alex Gordon '07esque year in '08.

That's how I think it should play out, and I think it still could, if Barton struggles the first two months. I don't think you'll see DJ taken off the roster, which was the whole point of what I wrote the first time. There's too many obvious, rational reasons to keep him here.

"I still say put Jack Cust on some roller skates, arm him with a squeeze tube of epoxy, and let him loose in CF...righteous!" -MRod

by notsellingjeans on Mar 30, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow part of that got cut off...

which maybe is a sign that I'm babbling too much.

Basically the part that got cut off is, I think that for very, very young hitters, especially who play a premium offensive position, there should be a higher threshold for what a minor leaguer needs to accomplish in the minor leagues to earn a big league promotion.

So for a 20-22 year-old, they need to really knock your socks off with their AAA performance in order to earn the call-up...whereas Dan Johnson, who was called up at an older age, didn't have much to gain from still being down there - because he had already reached full physical maturity.

But I fully realize that this is an issue where a lot of people are going to fundamentally disagree.

"I still say put Jack Cust on some roller skates, arm him with a squeeze tube of epoxy, and let him loose in CF...righteous!" -MRod

by notsellingjeans on Mar 30, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to admit, I'm not sure if this is true

but the perception among most people is that there is typically an "adjustment period" to the major leagues which causes rookies to do worse than they typically would for some period of time, potentially their entire first season.

So the thinking is that we may as well get that period out of the way for Barton in a rebuilding year.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 30, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that

you can certainly and definitely make an argument that Barton should begin the year in AAA. I said that. That is not what I disagree with.

The point where I disagree vehemently with you is requiring Barton put up a 1000 OPS over a full season in AAA before you promote him. That is a ridiculous standard in 2 ways: firstly a 1000 OPS, even in the PCL, is a very high standard. A very high standard that many good and very good players have never met. Would you have held Prince Fielder back, until he OPSed 1000? Secondly, why pick an arbitrary number like 1000? Why not 985? 1005?

just natural, male, physical growth. You and I, and most males who continued to work out, were probably better athletes at age 23 than we were at 21.

You are confusing general physical skills with specific physical skills, you are confusing General Physical Preparedness with Special Physical Preparedness. Every physical activity, requires SPECIFIC SKILLS. Unfortunately, training and developing specific skills, whether hitting a changeup from Johan Santana, hitting a curveball from Pedro, or playing Bach's entire Well Tempered Klavier from memory in concert and moving your listeners to tears / raptures, is nowhere near as simplistic as "just natural, male, physical growth".

I've got a question for you: In your opinion, can a player learn all that he needs to learn in the minors?

very, very young hitters, especially who play a premium offensive position, there should be a higher threshold for what a minor leaguer needs to accomplish in the minor leagues to earn a big league promotion.

So for a 20-22 year-old, they need to really knock your socks off with their AAA performance in order to earn the call-up...whereas Dan Johnson, who was called up at an older age, didn't have much to gain from still being down there - because he had already reached full physical maturity.

What about playing the best and most deserving player? That the best player should be on the field? What about holding everyone to the same standards, whether young players or Proven Veterans? Is that not what statheads have been arguing for for years?

How do you know that by holding your elite prospect in the minors, where he is not facing much competition, you are not stunting his development of his sport specific skills?

And how do you convince the young player that you are not deliberately holding him back to save money? How do you convince the young player not to hold a grudge against you? How do you convince your fans that you are not deliberately holding the player back because you are a cheap owner only interested in lining his pockets? How do you convince other young players, whom you want to sign, that you are not a cheapskate team that deliberately holds a young player back to save money?

And lastly why are you disregarding Barton and Johnson's time in the majors? Everything counts. Unless you are aware of extenuating circumstances, Barton was using a metal bat in MLB, you should not just throw data out.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 31, 2008 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Using Jack Cust is a bad example

because unlike DJ, Jack Cust isn't a bad hitter.

Johnson doesn't have even a shred of potential of being a plus hitter. His power is maxed out, as is his isolated OBP. His batting average will always be terrible, because he makes bad contact and only uses half of the field.

You also seem to be missing the fact that Mike Sweeney is on the roster. There's no way that keeping and playing DJ, a player who will never be worth more than a Scutaro-like return in trade if that, holds any advantages over giving that playing time to Sweeney, who actually holds some potential trade value if he has a bounce-back year and a contender needs a DH upgrade. In other words, even if Barton is sucking pond water, the best A's lineup arguably still doesn't have DJ in it.

Something else to chew on: Chris Shelton, who is better than DJ, cleared waivers earlier this winter. Waivers are a mercurial process and there's no guarantee DJ would too, but it's a. a sign of how worthless OK-hitting first basemen are perceived to be by the league, and b. an indication that DJ would probably remain in the system even if he was DFAed.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 30, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Writing off his month in the majors is twisting numbers

It makes just as much sense as if I were to just use his post-April .414OBP/.494slg to support my claim that he's awesome. I don't really think he'll be a "high qualtiy 1B" this year, but he should be about average, which is exactly what he did last year.

As for DJ (I'm not sure why you would think he'll put up an .800 Ops), I'm still not sure who you think is going to be sent down when Gaudin comes back. What if Chavez comes back in a month? I also highly doubt that DJ will ever have much if any more trade value than Scutaro. His main offensive contribution is BBs and he's one of the 30 slowest guys in mlb.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 30, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What were those banners on the outfield wall supposed to be about?

"I know where the A's are" or something?

Also, new Stomper's moves suck. I want 2006 Stomper back.

"There is an HR in Hanrahan." ~ mikeA

by Poppy on Mar 29, 2008 5:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Those banners will be unveiled to say ...

Comcast SportsNet Bay Area (previously Fox Sports Net Bay Area).

At least that's what they intimated on TV.

Guiness Stout

by Ice Cream on Mar 29, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

they're going to keep them up for 5 years ...

... then unfurl them to read "Fremont" as the moving trucks pull up.

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At today's game

I saw the one at their park that said "I know where the Giants are" and I said "last place?"

"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher

by andeux on Mar 30, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm amazed that CGon has been sent down -

if you can't trust the poorly translated words of a player recounting a second-hand report of a GM's comments, what can you trust?

And who's the irresponsible moron who published a front-page post about it?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 5:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It was a lot more fun that way

Best of both worlds: right decision was made and we had something interesting to discuss.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL - thanks mikeA, you are too kind

Now that CGon is AAA-bound, let me say that I think it would be a spiffy idea for him to play CF at Sacramento. Anyone know - is that the plan?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

Urban says he'll play a lot of center in Sacto, even though he "projects as a corner outfielder".

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the projections could change

if he starts playing CF regularly day 1. He's only 22 and a good athlete - at the very least, the A's ought to know by the end of this season what position he should be playing in the major leagues in 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially with all of the physical comparisons he gets to Carlos Beltran.

Beltran might move to right field eventually, but so far in his career he's played a pretty good center.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

excuse me?

My translation of the article was a good one...and the article didn't say the player was recounting anything first hand -- though he may have misunderstood what was said to him.

by OaklandSi on Mar 29, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what is truly amazing....

....is that AN'ers put up almost 100 posts on two threads before anyone questioned the believability of the article. When it comes from a paper called "La Verdad" (The Truth), you know it's probably crap...

by kitoko on Mar 29, 2008 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we can't believe "The Truth"

We simply can't believe anything.

I'm gonna start a paper called "Lies and Speculation" and see how often it's quoted for it's obvious accuracy.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Mar 29, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More appropriate for this site...

How about, "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics"?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 29, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the bright side

The A's can have multiple quality pinch hitters per night in close and late game situations.

by ChadGod on Mar 29, 2008 6:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I almost forgot...

Walking back across the Bart Bridge after the game, I saw a sign past the tracks that I'm sure I've seen before but it made me crack up today.

It read: "Sunshine Biscuits".

Here's to you, Travis Buck!

by pam5981 on Mar 29, 2008 6:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Biscuits ... Cupcakes ...

I think Cust needs to develop a Joe Morgan-esque timing tic with his elbow.

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AHHHH!!

It's like LEMURCONKERS!

"I have a strange urge to make copies." JediLeroy

by Jennifer on Mar 29, 2008 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fun Fact

Did you know that all the letters of the alphabet can be found on in-staduim advertising this year? Thanks to the University of Phoenix and Aquafina signs, you can see every letter in advertising from the seats.

Yes, I was bored during the evacation video...It really shows.

by VivaOakland on Mar 29, 2008 6:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

All I can afford these days are evacations -

the real ones just cost too darn much. :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

when you go on an evacation ...

... do you go to Eveland?

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to go to Eveland

to see the Clindians play.

by vk on Mar 29, 2008 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...

I had to read that twice. Although wrong, the first version I read was much funnier!

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 29, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand the move with CarGon

With cust struggling, i thought we would need a bat liek CarGon to be in the lineup and mature in the big leagues. Emil Brown and buck and cust and I thought ryan sweeney would need more abs in tripleAAA.

by buckfan6 on Mar 29, 2008 7:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cust is struggling? News to me.

Or did you mean the one game slump?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fun tonight on XM 184

"Hello again, everybody, and a very pleasant good evening to you, wherever you may be. Vin Scully, coming to you tonight from the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, and I never thought I would say that again!"

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 7:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ha! Scully is classic.

Whether you love/hate the Dodgers or even just don't care about the National League, you gotta give a lot of respect to Vin Scully.

by Taj Adib on Mar 29, 2008 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was never a Dodgers (or Angels) fan

but living in Southern California in the '70s, it was great having Scully and Enberg/Drysdale (Angels) on the radio. That was in the days when very few games were on TV so we relied on the voices to give us the entire picture, and those were some tremendous radio announcers.

Vin was waxing nostalgic about the Coliseum days in the first inning tonight. Unfortunately, he's spending the second inning interviewing Frank McCourt.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps they should show him an evacuation video

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Note that in this configuration

there was no need for a left fielder. The Dodgers had Andre Ethier play deep center field and used Andruw Jones as a rover behind second base.

by Soaker on Mar 29, 2008 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Were balls hit down the left field line

ground rule doubles?

Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider starting a left-handed hitter in that park...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 29, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was a 60 foot high netting

screen in what passes for left field. I wonder how far away deepest part of CF was?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 29, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats the old one

new one today was 201 to left and like 440 to right center

by Glomar on Mar 30, 2008 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally ridiculous

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 29, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No move is the right move

Beane is going to have to make a decision, it will be scrutinized by some, others will love it no matter which decision he makes. If he makes the right one, he'll be hailed a genius (not that he hasn't already) and if he makes a move that turns out bad (e.g. he drops DJ, who gets picked up by a team and plays really well) he'll be criticized.

Hindsight is 20/20.

My main concern here is Barton's wrist, it seems like something that could be reoccuring. The last thing I want to do this year is be checking injury updates.

Paul

www.baseballmachine.blogspot.com

by SwishMyNish33 on Mar 29, 2008 7:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As I've said before, there is ALWAYS a right move...

the difference between good GMs and bad ones is in how often they figure out what the right move is.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 29, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and there is a right move and a wrong move

at any time given all the information available, it's not a hindsight thing.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 29, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

trading Rhodes and Redman for Kendall: wrong move

As reassuring as Bud's words were, the dulcet tone of his voice and his dashing appearance really sealed the deal for me. ~ GreenNGoldSooner @('.')@

by monkeyball on Mar 29, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes, there is no "right" move...

but you're left with no choice except to make a move. A truly great leader is one who can manuever his opponent into just such a position.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 29, 2008 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know there is a "right" move

I was saying that no matter which move he makes, it will be scrutinized by some, and loved by others. Obvioulsy he could make a decision and have it turn out the correct one in hindsight.

My post did not say that no matter which move Beane makes, it will turn out bad.

By the way, good first name

www.baseballmachine.blogspot.com

by SwishMyNish33 on Mar 30, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never imagined

...there would ever be a point when the A's had two Sweeneys!

by Jeremy Belvins on Mar 31, 2008 12:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Irishmen are undervalued this year.

"There is an HR in Hanrahan." ~ mikeA

by Poppy on Mar 31, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

somebody was saying the same thing to me...

about Italians, until Fiorentino got sent down.

Go A's!

by FoolshGame22 on Mar 31, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Emil Brown

Yes, I am a fantasy dork. But I picked up Brown in the last round of my draft and am kind of excited about his prospects this year. I know he kileed me a couple times betting against the Royals at the end of last year, and I think he hit around .340 for the last five or six weeks of the 2007 season (to go with back-to-back .285-type years in '05 and '06).

I think the kid is a player and is going to flourish in Oakland. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I getting a little carried away with one month and a decent opening series?

by Doc's Sports Predictions Guy on Apr 1, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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