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Staturday: Will injuries cost the Angels the AL West?

General managers are getting smarter.  That's no secret.  Broken-down veterans with little upside aren't getting three-year contracts and promising young players are being locked up after very little major league experience.  Today's transactions increasingly reflect an understanding, conscious or not, of replacement-level talent.  The Billy Beanes and Kevin Towers of the world still have an advantage over the Brian Sabeans and Ed Wades, but the gap is shrinking.  Chalk it up to progress.

Player evaluation is one thing, but GMs are also responsible for team evaluation.  An underrated management skill is the ability to realistically assess the talent of the team relative to the league and choose a corresponding direction.  Knowing an organization's position relative to its competitors is (or ought to be) the primary responsibility of management.  It ought to be so in baseball, too.

I happen to think that this kind of evaluation is a strength of Billy Beane and his management team.  When we were close and needed pieces to get over the top, he took risks on Milton Bradley, Frank Thomas, and Esteban Loaiza.  The trades of Nick Swisher and Dan Haren are defensible from this perspective: we ain't going anywhere with 'em, might as well get something we can use many years down the line.

Whether the rebuilding approach was the right one or not is debateable.  On paper, the Angels are the best team in the AL West, while the Mariners and A's are close.  But the Angels aren't a slam-dunk as many think.  A few weeks ago, devo pulled out his prognosticatin' hat and came up with the following:

Team Wins Losses
Angels 86 76
Athletics 79 83
Rangers 77 85
Mariners 74 88

(All standard forecasting caveats apply)

One thing that we're just not that good not predicting is injuries.  Hey, if Chavvy bounces back from his 12 surgeries and Rich Harden's bionic arm tranpslant is successful, we could maybe compete with an Angels team that loses a few key pieces...

We don't know about Chavvy and Harden yet, except that the former still isn't ready to play, but we do know a bit more about the Angels: they're a little banged up.  John Lackey, one the most underrated pitchers in the league, won't be sticking his f'ing them out there until Mid-May.  Kelvim Escobar is out for the season.  Vlad's knee is hurting.  Gary Matthews has a sore calf.  Following the Angels lately has been like following the A's, sans the spiritual and emotional fulfillment that comes from being an A's fan.

Nobody is happy about injuries.  But - be truthful - you're a little excited, aren't you?  Down an ace.  Down a number two.  Gimpy legs for one of the premier hitters in the league.  Could this open the door for the A's to make a surprise run in the AL West?

Let's go to the numbers, starting from devo's post a few weeks ago...

Star-divide

The Angels were projected to score 790 runs and allow 742 runs. 

Escobar was projected to give up 89 runs 180 IP.  Let's allocate those 180 IP as follows: 50 to Chris Bootcheck (bringing his total up to 120 from 70), 30 for Ervin Santana (150, up from 120), 30 for Joe Saunders (150, up from 120), and 70 for Nick Adenhart.  Prorating their projections, the 180 innings from Bootcheck/Santana/Saunders/Adenhart would allow 99 runs (I didn't have Adenhart's projection, but he seems like a pretty good prospect so I just assumed he'd give up 4.8 runs per 9, or about a 4.40 ERA.

(You can quibble with my esimates of lost playing time and who substitutes for whom, but devo and I have given you the tools to crunch your own numbers.  If you think I made a bad assumption, tell me why and where, and use this method to tell me what you think will happen. )

If Lackey misses 8 starts, that's 55 innings that need to be replaced.  Halos Heaven says that Dustin Mosely will get a bunch of starts, so lets say that those are innings are soaked up by Dustin Mosely.  He was projected at 5.55 runs per nine innings, so that's 34 runs.  Lackey would have given up 25 runs.  That's a difference of 10 runs, or about one win.

That's some good depth the Halos have.  Losing their number two starter for the year and their ace for a six weeks is only going to cost them 20 runs, or about two wins.  That would be significant if the AL West was projected to be a close race - but the Angels can probably weather the storm.

Okay, let's venture into the unknown and say Vlad gimpy knees cost him a month, and his plate-appearances are eaten up by Kendry Morales.  That's costs the Angels a grand total of...4 runs.  Let's round that up to five runs.  And let's say that a deranged Expos fan goes Gilooly on Vlad's knee and he misses two months.  That's 10 runs, or about one win.

So Lackey and Escobar's known absences will cost the Angels about two wins.  And if Vlad goes down for a significant amount of time, then the Angels go down another win.  That knocks the Angels down from 86 wins to 83 wins.  That's not very good for a division winner.

But the A's and Mariners and Rangers don't project out to that high of a win total, so the West may be won with not much more than a .500 record this year.

According to devo's PECOTA translations, the A's graded out as a 79-win team.  Now, the difference between 79 wins and 83 is not a lot.  It's well within error bars of forecasting imperfections and dumb luck. And if Harden stays healthy for even 20-25 starts, he could add a few wins to the Oakland total and make the whole thing a tossup.  But that's asking for a whole lot to go our way, and we didn't consider what might happen if everything broke right for the Mariners or Rangers. 

Even with their injuries, the Angels are still the favorites in the AL West.  It's just not a slam dunk. In my 2008 THT season preview, I suggested that if everything breaks right for the A's (and wrong for the Angels), we could find ourselves only a few games out of the playoff chase by midseason.  It's unlikely, but not impossible.

If that happens, the upgrade from Emil Brown/Mike Sweeney to Barry Bonds might just make the headache that is his Barry-ness worthwhile.

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why wait, the a's should just sign bonds now

a full season of bonds in the lineup means fewer things have to break right for the a's and break wrong for the angels for the a's to be in contention.

sweeney can stay and back up cust/bonds/barton, DJ needs to go.

question: what's the earliest the a's could call up carlos gonzalez and/or gio gonzalez without costing a year of service time?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 28, 2008 10:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

May, I think.

Essentially it's what the Brewers did with Ryan Braun last year.

by mikev on Mar 28, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, May to keep them another year

June to prevent them from being Super Twos.

Since I obviously don't care about the latter (at least not directly), it's less of an issue to me-- but it's a relevant factor.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 28, 2008 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me either

But I do care about him being 100% ready.

Fairly obvious, but a call up, struggle, and a send down to AAA is more likely to hamper CarGo's development than, say, starting the season in Sacramento and absolutely raking for 2 months (and playing center field) before a callup and a stay up.

by mikev on Mar 29, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not as optimistic

as I would have hoped from a statistical point of view! But hey, that's why they play the games.

Soaker brought up a great point in the game thread. We get the Giants in inter league play while the Angels and Mariners get the Dodgers and Padres. Is there a measurable statistical advantage that can forecast the effects of the unbalanced schedule? Is it enough to make a difference for the A's?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 28, 2008 10:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Measurable, yes, via simulations

But rough calculations get you most of the way there, and adjusting for strength of schedule is complex.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Mar 28, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just re-read my post....

I really need to take more time typing when I'm drinking. So ah....what you're saying is....I should go ahead and buy my playoff tickets?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 28, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easy, rough way of doing that is:

assume SF is a .400 AL team and SD and LA are .515 or something AL teams. So "AL team X" would beat the Giants 6 times out of 10 or 3.6 out of 6, whereas same "AL team X" would beat SD and LA 2.9 out of 6. So without taking into account the quality of the A's/Angels/Mariners, there's a half-win or a tad more advantage for an AL team drawing the Giants over the Dodgers or Padres.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Method 2:

Devo has the A's allowing 4.8 runs/game. My best guess is that the Giants will score 0 runs over the 6 games, so factor that in and we're down to 4.6 runs/game!

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We (Athletics) get a weird schedule

I was looking at August and September, and the A's play about nine or ten home games in each month, and ..

that's it!! I thought...WTF! Then I heard the broadcast of the SF-A's game tonight (Friday) and heard Ray Fosse talk about a TON of home games in June. This is simply too weird.

Sal, if you want to do some analysis of the famed "computerized" MLB schedule, that would be welcome. Once again, the teams in snow-bound areas get plenty of home games in April, while warmer sites (like Oakland) get no weather bias.

What's the total MLBPA payroll? And how much was spent on concocting the schedule??!! IMO, a huge problem with the "absent-human intervention, unreasoned" schedule.

No time-zone bias (IMO), no weather bias (IMO), no travel frequency bias (IMO), no relative team attractiveness bias (e.g. Yankees, very attractive gate, Tampa Bay, not attractive) IMO.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Mar 28, 2008 11:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

GOOD ANALYSIS

Curious if the Dan Haren trade would be a favored re-do in Oakland with news of the loss of Kelvim Escobar.

by Rev Halofan on Mar 28, 2008 11:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm cool with it...

so far, so good with all the recent trades, as far as I'm concerned. What? You don't think Harden and Blanton are better than what the Halos have to start the season? And, it looks to me like our staff got younger and deeper. All good.

Go A's!

by FoolshGame22 on Mar 28, 2008 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alert Blez

Someone is masquerading as Rev Halofan. He managed to respond to a stat-based post on AN without using the words "spork," "Miss Cleo," or "Choakland."

Maybe the Haren trade looks a little less defensible now, but hoping that the injury bug strikes your opponent is a pretty bad motivator for roster construction. The Lackey/Escobar injuries really shouldn't change ones opinion, good or bad, of the Haren trade.

Any non-troll non-numbskull Angel fan care to weigh in on how reasonable the pitching substitutions sound?

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Mar 28, 2008 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The "troll/numbskull" thing wasn't meant as a shot

at Rev, just his readership. I can see why one might think that was directed at Rev, but I didn't intend for it that way.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Mar 28, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want our fav icon back.

I noticed that newly upgraded Lookout Landing has its fav icon working already. What the hell. I thought it was disabled under the new format, but no. Jeff figured it out in like one day. Blez, or whatever other manager has access, needs to get on it.

Oh, and I just noticed we now have the optional wide format and optional turn-off-avatars here, both thanks to whining at LL. Cool.

Did you know that new comments are yellow on every site? It looks great here, because it's our color, but it looks stupid on LL. Their new comments should be blue. I'm surprised none of the other non-gold teams complained about it.

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Mar 28, 2008 11:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Small sample size and all...

AVG OBP SLG
.321 .310 .393

I'm pretty sure that's not a good line. Isn't your OBP supposed to be higher than your BA? And, slugging in the .390 range... isn't that Kotsayesque?

P.S. There ya go PT... an OBP lower than a batting average. See, it can happen. ;-)

Go A's!

by FoolshGame22 on Mar 28, 2008 11:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yes, I believe that's correct...

not that I'd ever bother to look it up. But, still one's OBP should be higher than your AVG if you expect to win a roster spot, should it not?

Go A's!

by FoolshGame22 on Mar 29, 2008 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it helps ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 29, 2008 2:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fitting line for a piece discussing the Halos

Could be mistaken for Howie Kendrick.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Mar 29, 2008 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely going to be a really interesting

year. The A's aren't as bad as everyone thinks and with the injuries, the Angels are definitely not as good.

I still don't think the A's will even sniff the AL West crown unless a thousand things break right, but hell, that's why we watch, right?

Nice post, sal.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Mar 29, 2008 1:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's a question, Sal ...

say that things work out that, in terms of true talent, the A's are an 82 win team and the Angels and 84 win team ... what are the odds that the A's win the division, based on chance/distribution/etc? (a rough estimate is perfectly fine)

The difference between that and 50-50 is roughly what the A's would have traded away in the Danny Haren trade, knowing what we know now ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 29, 2008 2:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I looked at this a little while ago

http://beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2006/4/20/85517/0034

Using that equation, a "true" 82-win team will win more games than a "true" 84-win team about 40% of the time due to random chance over a 162-game season.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Mar 29, 2008 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious how devo's progno-ball

puts the Rangers at 77 wins - their rotation looks worse than usual and it never looks good. And their short relief, usually a strength recently, is in shambles. devo (or salb, or anyone) - what puts the Rangers that close to .500 in your projection-machine? Seems odd.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 5:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

At

Replacement Level Yankee Weblog, SG simulated 6000 iterations of the 2008 season, 1000 times each with projections from PECOTA, CHONE, ZiPs, Diamond Mind, Hardball Times, and his own CAIRO projection system.

The 1000 iterations of the 2008 seasons simulated using Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA projections, which were the same projections that devo used:

LAA08 87.8 74.2
Oak08 78.2 83.8
Tex08 74.8 87.2
Sea08 73.5 88.5

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 29, 2008 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question for you, Nico

sal mentioned in this post that Gary Matthews has a sore calf.

Do you know how that compares to a sore goat?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Mar 29, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depending on where the calf is sore,

the calf may or may not be emotionally scarred for life.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 29, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, surprisingly, PECOTA doesn't think their staff is terrible.

Not good ... or even average ... but not that far from average. After accounting for park effects, I wouldn't be surprised if their pitching performs better than their offense ...

Of course they have no pitching depth, what-so-ever. If anything goes wronger than average, those projections could go south very fast.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 29, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kevin Towers just sent Chase Headley

down to the minors to pinch pennies. For that, the Padres deserve to miss the playoffs again, just like they did last season.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 29, 2008 7:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The fact that this kind of gamesmanship

has apparently become commonplace just makes the Carlos Gonzalez thing even more befuddling.

Plenty of guys who obviously should have major league jobs are getting hosed. Who's going to complain about a guy who's a debatable major leaguer at best getting sent down for half a season?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 29, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzales

is as you say, actually a different case from guys like Longoria, Braun, Headley. There is a pretty good argument to be made that he is not the best available player for the spot, and that he does not deserve an MLB roster spot.

For the Padres it does not make sense for them to do this. The Padres could very well end up regretting badly playing Jody Gerut instead of Headley. They are a contending team that barely missed the playoffs last year. The Brewers finished 2 games behind the Cubs last year. If they had not pulled their stunt with Braun, and if they had pushed Gallardo more quickly up they might have made the playoffs. Unless all that Towers and Alderson care about are pinching pennies, this is a stupid move.

Who's going to complain you say? The players are not dumb and blind. Longoria was saying some stuff after he got sent down. Maybe he will not hold a grudge against the DRays for this when they want to sign him to a Tulo or Wright type deal. Or maybe he will, and decide to year to year in arby with them.

Just as importantly PAYING FANS are not dumb. No Padre fan is going to believe that Jody Gerut, who last played in MLB in 2005 with an OPS+ 83, is a starter over Headley for any reason other than cheapskateness, lining the pockets of the owners

And, teams like the Yankees, the RS, are NOT doing this. As it is, both the RS and the Yanks have extensive national followings. Teams that are so blatantly cheapskate like the Padres risk helping the Yanks and RS build their national fanbases even further. The Padres cannot even make the argument / excuse that the DRays would make, ie that they are still not a contending team yet, they are biding their time.

Also, it isn't even as if all the smaller teams are doing this. The Rockies did not do this with Tulo.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Mar 29, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am never happy to see players injured...

but it does open up some opportunities as salb has so capably pointed out. This season is going to be a lot more fun than I expected. bring it on!

by IM4Oakgal on Mar 30, 2008 12:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

staturday question - what do you think of hitter/pitcher matchup #'s?

This is late, but maybe a topic for a future staturdya?

I get a kick out of broadcasters saying things like, "well, this batter is 3 for 6 lifetime against this pitcher, he really owns this guy, they probably will be really careful" when in fact you've got a lifetime .250 lefty hitter with no pop vs. Randy Johnson, two outs, nobody on, and another inconsequential hitter behind him. Yet managers will sometimes bench a competent righty because of this matchup.

I'm pretty sure people will agree that there's simply no reason to pay attention to the matchup data in this particular scenario. I'm wondering if anyone has given thought to what a good way to analyze batter v. pitcher matchups? Maybe both batter and pitcher career #'s vs. all righties/lefties?

My earliest memory in life is of Campy Campaneris

by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 30, 2008 6:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

There are certain characteristics that are statistically significant

One of them is righty-lefty, which is split on a binary basis and is thus really easy to figure out. Less easy is figuring out groundball/flyball tendencies (Flyball hitters tend to do better against groundball pitchers... the problem is that there's a slew of hitters and pitchers who are "in the middle", as it were) and power/finesse tendencies.

One thing I can say for sure, the individual batter/pitcher sample sizes are so small as to be worthless. You'd need something like 15 years of a given batter/pitcher matchup in the same division before the results would acquire even a shadow of significance, and in today's game, that just doesn't happen anymore.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Mar 30, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And after 15 years . . .

. . . neither would be the same batter / pitcher as they were 15 years ago, making the early stats of little value.

I'm guessing that a starting pitcher vs. starting batter matchup in a division would average 3 games per year (.5 games if the pitcher is harden or the batter is crosby, and in either case, the pitcher looks good) and 3 AB per game, so around 10 AB per year. After 5 years, you've got 50AB, and maybe that's enough to start build a case on if the results are really divergent from the mean, but those cases should be quite rare. It'd be interesting to know how many batter v pitcher matchups have more than 50 AB.

Sounds like you'd advocate some combination of left / righty + flyball / groundball, with some power stats as well (slugging % for each?). It'd be kind of cool to see someone come up with a good model that predicts batter vs. pitcher outcomes. But I'm definitely not up to the task!

My earliest memory in life is of Campy Campaneris

by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 31, 2008 6:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the Salb/Devo Logic:

It is a good place to start.

Now, I'd like to add the "effect" of losing Vlad for a month, your ACE for a month and a half and your #2 for the entire season.

I have not looked up or crunched the numbers BUT I do believe that it is possible to put together a metric for this:

In addition to the single effect of losing a pitcher or hitter, there must also be a combined effect of losing two pitchers and a your BEST hitter at the same time.

Perhaps it would multiply the losses by a factor of 1.8 - 2.8?

Also, the rate at which aces give up runs in a single game seems to be more consistant with winning.

lackey giving up 3 runs a game on average means alot of 1 - 4 run outings which put a team in better position to win whereas a 4.8 ERA Bootcheck would more than likely singlehandedly lose games by giving up 6 runs himself for every time he kept the team in it by surrendering 2 runs.

Then there is the effect of losing your "Holy Grail" on offense.

Vlad makes the Angels offense a threat to score every time he is up. There is a reason he has hit 25 homers and driven in 100 RBI for the last 10 years.

Every time the little "moscas" (Spanish for fleas) get on base there is the threat that BAD VLAD will drive them in.

With solid starting pitching he only has to hit one off the wall once a game to keep them in the game.

With Lackey and Escobar missing AND Vlad in there, there will be more impetus on his production. IF he misses a significant amount of time while those two are out there will be a much larger impact than 1 game...IMO.

Things I'd look up:

Runs in each game surrendered by Escobar and Lackey as compared to their replacements and see which games were 3 or less per 6 innings.

The increased OBP and OPS of players hitting in front of VLAD as well as the runs per game with him in.

Also, don't forget that with Shields also feeling pain there will be a bigger strain on the bullpen that already figures to eat more innings without Lackey or Escobar in there.

Also look into the stretch of schedule that the ANgels play while missing their two aces.

One last thing that should be factored in to the Angels favor is the fact that pitchers that go around the League the first time, Joe Saunders anyone, usually fair pretty well IF they are good pitchers, and Lackey can be back before his replacement has to go around a second time.

I need to get over to the Raiders now, but I think IF we can weigh out all of these factors there may be a better gauge of just how many games losing these players will cost them.

by saintoakland on Mar 30, 2008 9:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

There is definitely a cummulative effect of losing the pitcher simultaneously ...

The actual replacement level of the team's #7 starter is probably going to be worse (often, likely, much worse) than their #6 starter.

The replacement are also not likely to go as deep into games as the original starters. If you still have one of our horses, he'll generally give the bullpen a chance to rest, helping mask the problem from the first lesser pitcher -- when you lose the second pitcher your bullpen is both gaining work and losing rest ... a bad combination.

Whether losing the high end hitter as well would hurt more than the basic math would indicate, I couldn't tell you.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 30, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You gonna be there on Tuesday or Wednesday?

I'll be all over the parking lot...Hit me up...

by saintoakland on Mar 30, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not 100% ... I'll let you know ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 30, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One Less Ace

I am not unpleased about one less "ace" for the Angels.
I have over the years debated to put them as second most hated following the Giants. I dont know if I could accept a series for the West if they ever took one.

by Stacks on Mar 31, 2008 10:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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