Staturday: Jack & Ichiro: Two of a Kind
Two of a kind, for your information, we're two of a kind
Two of a kind, it's my observation, we're two of a kind
Like peas in a pod
And birds of a feather
Alone or together, you'll find
That we are two-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, oo of a kind
Jack Cust
6’1" 231 lbs
Ichiro Suzuki
5’11" 170 lbs
Eerie, isn’t it?
Aside from practically
being twins, these two outfielders have another thing in common – absurdly high
batting average on balls in play (BABIP). As A’s fans, we should be hoping that
they have another thing in common.
Ichiro Suzuki has PECOTA (a forecasting system created by Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus) confounded. PECOTA is absolutely sure that Ichiro is just getting lucky – that like most luck does, his luck will end and he will be regressing to the mean any minute now.
PECOTA is stubborn – as it
should be. Players who break the mold as thoroughly as Ichiro does are few and
far between – but that is kind of the problem.
What makes PECOTA so special
is that it is based on more than just a player’s past statistics. It uses those
statistics as well as information about that player (physical information,
position, favorite Hugh Grant movie) to identify similar players and then it
makes projections based on how those players performed going forward.
It runs into a problem,
though, with players that are too unique. I am sure none of you, my dear
readers, would be surprised to learn that Ichiro is, in fact, truly unique. The
curious thing is that PECOTA not only knows it, it can identify and measure
that uniqueness. Along with the projections, PECOTA gives players a “Similarity
Index” score:
Similarity Index is a composite of the similarity scores
of all of a player's comparables. Similarity index is a gauge of the player's
historical uniqueness; a player with a score of 50 or higher has a very common
typology, while a player with a score of 20 or lower is historically unusual.
For players with a very low similarity index, PECOTA expands its tolerance for
dissimilar comparables until a meaningful sample size is established.
Ichiro has a Similarity
Index of 19, making him historically unusual.
This, my friends, is where
Jack Cust comes in. Jack Cust has a Similarity Index of 13. Is he borderline
Hall of Famer, Jim Thome … or is he Mike Epstein, a thoroughly unimpressive
first baseman who managed a couple of lucky seasons, thanks mostly to a fluky
batting average on balls on in play? Or is he really neither of them (ding,
ding, ding), which is, umm, kind of the point of this article.
While PECOTA has not
caught on, Ichiro has a pretty well established ability to consistently make
more productive contact than the typical hitter. In 2007 he posted a .390 BABIP
– high, even for him, but not that high, at least for him. He has a career .359
BABIP. Heck, it was not even a career high. Not surprisingly, that came in
2004, the year he knocked 262 hits, thanks to a .401 BABIP. By comparison, Ted
Williams only managed a .378 BABIP in 1941. That was one of three seasons that
he struck out fewer times than he went yard, which led to his .406 batting
average, despite the low babip.
PECOTA, having read and
re-read Sal’s article from last week, doesn’t believe that Ichiro’s high batting average on balls in
play is sustainable, despite the fact that he has done it seven years in a row.
Since PECOTA is only looking at the numbers that Ichiro and his comparable
players produced, this is absolutely appropriate.
Ichiro is so successful
because he combines an incredibly high ground ball percentage (3rd in MLB) with the highest infield hit percentage in the game. What’s more,
Ichiro basically does not hit fly balls (2nd lowest in MLB), which,
as we’d expect, limits his power potential but it drives his high batting
average. On top of that, he was second in the league in bunt hit percentage
(among players with at least 6 bunts). That’s pretty frickin’ unique – both in
that he is so consistently at the extremes and in that, unlike fellow ground
ballers Luis Castillo and Tony Pena, he doesn’t suck.
Jack Cust is pretty unique
himself (are we noticing a trend here?). He’s not beating out grounders left
and right. He was actually dead last in the league, with an incredible 0
infield hits. Seriously, Frank frickin’ Thomas managed to beat out 4 dribblers.
Even Bengie Molina beat out 3, tying Prince Fielder who was too fat to not sell
jeans. What is incredible is that, not only was Jack Cust the only player to
qualify for the batting title who did not beat out a single infield hit, no one
else had fewer than 2.
I’m getting a bit off
track, though. Jack Cust’s incredible ability to not beat Bengie Molina in a
foot race is not a reason for optimism. Seriously, my 108-year-old grea
grandmother could beat Bengie Molina in a foot race … and she’s been dead for
30 years. He’s that slow. The Slowskies of Comcast fame aspire to be Bengie
Molina. Yeah, the Slowskies – they’re turtles. Turtles are slow – but not as
slow as Bengie Molina (has this joke been sufficiently beaten into ground
yet?).
There are two key reasons
for optimism.
1. Jack Cust hits a ton of line drives. He was 8th in the league with a 23.2 line drive percentage in 2007. Line drives are much
more likely to result in hits than ground balls or fly balls.
2. While Jack Cust does not hit many fly balls (131st out of 162 qualified batters) but the few that he does hit leave the park more
frequently than anyone else. Fly balls are great when they leave the park, but
they’re pretty bad otherwise.
PECOTA did something
curious. It projected Jack Cust to be pretty good in 2007, hitting 20 home runs
with a .839 OPS and a .312 BABIP. Cust exceeded those numbers by a fair bit
with 26 home runs, a .912 OPS and a .366 BABIP. PECOTA, feeling snubbed after
Cust blew away its hard work then lowered his projections for 2008, down to a
.821 OPS – and back to a .312 BABIP. PECOTA basically did two things. It
assumed he was not going to strike out so ridiculously frequently and that his
contact would cease to be more productive than normal. Given the small sample size that Custs’
career offers at this point, that is absolutely the right thing to do.
Statistically speaking, there is no reason to believe that Jack Cust had
anything except a fluky season.
Fortunately, though, we
are not just mindless adding machines. We can process things other than numbers
and include them in our understanding of the game. Jack Cust is a unique
player. He does play the game differently than your typical ball player. He
actually plays it pretty similarly to Ryan Howard who has shown a consistent
ability to strike out, hit line drives and watch his fly balls leave the park
significantly more often than anyone else … anyone else except Jack Cust, that
is.
Writing this article may
be a bit statistically irresponsible on my part. There is a very reasonable
chance that everything I have said about Jack Cust is rubbish -- that like
virtually every other player in the game, he is actually normal. What’s more,
we all have to understand that I am writing this article under the assumption
that Jack Cust is extremely abnormal. By that, I mean, the overwhelming
majority of players are more or less normal. Assumptions or projections based
on normalcy work and are absolutely appropriate in the great majority of
situations.
His minor league numbers
provide a mixed bag. In AAA in 2005 and 2006, his GB% was comparable (43.5%)
but he traded in a number of his line drives (15%) for fly balls (38.2%) – a
return to which would generally portend to bad results in the future. 8% fewer
line drives will likely result in 5-6% fewer hits. 4% more fly balls will
likely result in 4% more homeruns. If you make those adjustments to his 2007
numbers he would have had 5 fewer singles and one extra homerun, leading to a
.895 OPS, losing 11 points of OBP and 6 points of Slg.
I’d like to believe Jack
Cust is a unique player. But he has to be. If he cannot maintain his abnormally
high LD%, BABIP and HR/FB Rate he won’t be much of a player. Thankfully,
though, Jack and Ichiro may just be two of a kind, for your information …
Two of a kind, it's my observation, they're two of a kind
Like peas in a pod
And birds of a feather
Alone or together, you'll find
That they are two-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, oo of a kind
A couple of questions that
I’d like folks’ thoughts on:
1. Why does PECOTA believe in Ryan Howard but not Jack
Cust (a fairly similar player) or Ichiro Suzuki (who is similar in his
uniqueness, but, unlike Jack Cust, has an even more established track record
than Howard)?
2. For players that are “historically unique”, why not
replace (or average, weighted based on uniqueness) their PECOTA projection with
a simpler projection system that does not rely on comparable players?
0 recs |
29 comments
Comments
Ichiro's infield hits
are why he's unique, why it's so hard for PECOTA to predict him, why his BABIP is absurd, and why he's going to have a drop-off of epic proportions (unless those stories of how he could hit 20-25 HR a year if he "wanted to" are true and he can summon that when needed). As soon as Ichiro loses just a half-step off his speed, most of those hits are outs . His already fairly empty .300+ average drops significantly and, offensively, he turns into a better version of Juan Pierre. I'm not sure it'll happen this year, but it's going to happen sometime during his big deal with Seattle and it's not going to be pretty.
by thejd44 on Mar 15, 2008 12:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OK
This is a new twist on formatting.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Mar 15, 2008 12:41 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Great piece
The "Staturday"(hate the name, why confine it to Saturday?) feature has yielded really great stuff already from you and Sal. Kudos all around..
Cust is a good bet to break the all time K record if the plays the full season. He is also a real good bet to finish in the neighborhood of the unintentional BBs record, which is obviously no small achievement. Also, I think you (slightly) underestimate his speed/baserunning skills, which are ok.
Anyway, I think the unique and fascinating aspect of Cust is how rarely he puts the ball in play. The GB/FB/LD is going to be volatile from year to year as is the HR/FB, in part because he makes contact so rarely.
Here is what I wonder: most people think the abnormal K-rate(even for abnormally high K-rate guys) is not going away. If so, the obscenely high BB-rate is not going away either.
So I wonder: In a pessimistic scenario, what value do you assign to a guy who is guaranteed to have a low BA, middling power (in the pessimistic scenario), but a great OBP (though this is Cust, so he can't run the bases too well)?
In other words, I think it's very plausible that Cust plays a full year and hits .230 with 25 HRs (i.e. a fair bit worse than last year with extra p.t.), but draws 140-50 BBs. What are we to make of that? It seems lto me that baserunning and the quality of subsequent hitters would play a much larger role in determining the value of this kind of hitter than almost anyone else.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Mar 15, 2008 3:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cust's on contact numbers
In 2007, on contact BA: 437. on contact SLG: 861
Prior to that in MLB, in very small samples, OC BA: 376, OC SLG: 659
Cust's cumulative MLB numbers: 421, 807
In the minors: OC BA 423, OC SLG: 712.
Some comps:
Ryan Howard, career: OC BA 439, OC SLG 920!!!
Thome, career OC BA 426, OC SLG 805
McGwire, career OC BA 354, OC SLG 793
Canseco, career OC BA 367, OC SLG 710
Ben Grieve with the As, OC BA 359, OC SLG 608. Ie, Cust is not comparable to Grieve, in case someone wants to bring up Grieve.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Mar 15, 2008 4:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great read.....
sorry I have nothing to add except Ichiro could hit more homers if he chose to! :P
by capper3 on Mar 15, 2008 5:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cust would have more infield hits if he chose to.
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly - the guy has not one but TWO feet!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Mar 15, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great read
Hey guys. I am a Mariners fan and just wanted to take a second to say I am really glad I found this site. The writing is great and entertaining,and the comments are insightful. It is one of my "must reads".
In response to the first comment, I read an article (I think on USSM Mariner)
where they discussed players similar to Ichiro with regards to aging. Basically, his skill set tends to age well (speed and contact). I think that if he avoids any leg injuries he should be alright. And if you see him warm up you can get a sense of what kind of shape he is in.
His contract might be a bargain if you factor in his defense. This year alone he will probably have to play all three outfield positions with Ibanez on one side and Wilkerson on the other.
Plus his quotes alone are worth a few million a year.
by martin026 on Mar 15, 2008 7:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jack Cust absolutely needs to pump up his QF (quotability factor).
Ichiro blows him away...
"If I have to be remembered because of *statistics*, then I did something wrong along the way." ~ Brett Favre
by Poppy on Mar 15, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Ichiro.
I don't see a collapse coming anytime soon. Although great, his speed isn't even his greatest asset--it's his freakish bat control. I bet you could set up targets on the field during BP, and he could hit them with batted baseballs.
So it goes.
by jeepers on Mar 15, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that Ichiro has another
unique skill set in MLB. It's his style of batting. First off, he hits left handed....while that isn't particularly unique, it does get you to first a half step sooner. Secondly, his swing is almost like a drag bunt in execution. The guy is already running down the line by the time he makes contact. While he is a fast runner, I imagine his style of hitting allows him to reach base on infield singles that other speedsters wouldn't make.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Mar 15, 2008 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we've figured out why Ichiro is unique
He's a Lair of the White Worm fan.
I wasn't thinking about anything. I'll have to try to do that more often. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Mar 15, 2008 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
we just have to hope that jack
can awaken the fire that is dormant in the innermost recesses of all of our souls
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown
by flipgatey3 on Mar 15, 2008 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Something I'm interested in,
regarding the notion that it's bad to hit fly balls unless they clear the fence, is the reality that among non-line drives, not all fly balls are alike (trajectory-wise). A hitter who hits a lot of high fly balls needs Custian strength to make sure they clear the fence, whereas a hitter who hits a lot of "looping liners" will find a lot of gaps. If you rated fly balls on a 1-5 scale, where a 1 was a pop up or lazy fly ball, 5 was a line drive, and there were gradations in between, it would be interesting to compare the guys who hit a lot of "2s" and the guys who hit a lot of "4s" in terms of BABIP and sustainability. Or maybe they've done that while I wasn't looking.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Mar 15, 2008 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
McGwire
You're pretty much describing Mark McGwire during his post-rookie/pre-juice days. It seemed nearly every at-bat was a long fly ball to the warning track. Not a bad explanation for those three successive years of BA of .231, ..235 and .201. Then the guy got juiced and suddenly his HR totals zoomed. A little more power, and all those fly balls went over the fence. His liners, hit harder, also found more holes.
During those three years, watching McGwire hit his warning track fly balls was akin to watching Dan Johnson hit those batting practice grounders to the right side. Lots of moans and groans.
by richwol1 on Mar 15, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This information will be available eventually
Vertical launch angle hit charts are eventually going to be available, in the form of either something like Hit F/X (Pitch F/X for batted balls) or a variation of the Hit Tracker system.
The basic gist is that balls hit at an angle of under 20 degrees are liners that give lots of singles, some doubles and very few homers; balls hit between 20 and 40 degrees give few singles but lots of homers, and balls hit at greater than 40 degrees are overwhelmingly outs.
The data is out there to be collected; it's just a matter of waiting until someone collects and aggregates it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Mar 15, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question for Devo or other stat guys...
I read last week that a single is rated as 50% more valuable than a walk. Why so much more valuable? Assuming runners on second or third, I can see the value. But with bases empty or a runner on first....the outcome is the same.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Mar 15, 2008 10:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Even with a runner on first...
There's a chance that a single to right field ends up with the runner on first going to third. With a BB that runner on first always ends up a second. Also, there's the chance that poor fielding plays the "single" into a double or allows the runner on first to score.
But I agree that 50% seems like a huge increment over a BB. Maybe one of the Saturday columnists could explain in more detail how this math ends up working out.
by LoveDemAs on Mar 15, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's always Sal's primer on scoring runs
from there:
Event Run Value
Single +0.47
Double +0.78
Triple +1.09
Dinger +1.40
Walk/HBP +0.33
Steal +0.30 +0.175
Caught -0.60 -0.467
Outs -0.09
so, in terms of run value, a single (on average) is worth ~42% more than a walk. those values can fluctuate greatly depending on the situation of course.
by rebus on Mar 15, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are some of the formulas used in various run estimators
Batting Runs, Pete Palmer's linear weights runs estimator:
Batting Runs = (.46*1B)+(.80*2B)+(1.02*3B)+(1.40*HR)+(.33*(BB+HBP))+(.30*SB)+(-.60*CS)+(-.25*(AB-H))-(.50*OOB)
Tweaks over the years,
BR = (.47*1B)+(.78*2B)+(1.09*3B)+(1.40*HR)+(.33*(BB+HBP))+(.30*SB)+(-.60*CS)+(-.25*(AB-H))
BR = (.47*H)+(.38*2B)+(.55*3B)+(.93*HR)+(.33*(BB+HBP))+(.22*SB)+(-.38*CS)-(ABF*(AB-H))
Baseball Prospectus, EQA, raw EQA:
H + TB + 1.5*(BB + HBP) + SB
EqA = ----------------------------
AB + BB + HBP + CS + SB/3
And of course, Bill James' various versions of Runs Created:
The most basic version:
RC = ((H+BB)*TB)/(AB+BB)
A version that includes SBs:
RC = ((H+BB-CS)*(TB+(.55*SB)))/(AB+BB)
More advanced version:
RC = (((2.4*C+A)*(3*C+B))/(9*C))-(.9*C)
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Mar 15, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fascinating diary
fanpost, whatever.
I propose some kind of Jack Cust Infield Hit Lottery. People all chip in a dollar and pick a day of the season. Whenever Cust gets an infield hit, whoever picked that day, or the closest day before, is a JCIHL winner. All the JCIHL winners split the pot at the end of the year. If Jack never hits one, then Apricot is the winner and gets all the money.
On PECOTA adjustments for uniqueness, I actually prefer measurements that are easier to understand than to keep tweaking a measure to become The One Projection To Rule Them All. Any tweak for unique players necessarily will be way less reliable than PECOTA.
It's like win probability added. It's easy to understand and interpret when done at a basic level. It ruins its transparency to try to tweak it to more accurately assess player value. Tweak here, tweak there and you get a horrorshow like Win Shares.
by Apricot on Mar 15, 2008 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If that's what you want,
the Marcel projections are right up your alley (I'm also partial to the simplicity of the Marcel).
stat-addled alien overlord
by salb918 on Mar 15, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fascinating
good tip for a guy knee deep in diapers.
by Apricot on Mar 16, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jack Cust actually isn't all that slow
Again, I think part of what's going on is that when he hits grounders, they're HARD grounders-- and so when the defense fields them, they have lots of time to throw him out. He just doesn't hit squibbers very often at all.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Mar 15, 2008 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know ... I'm just trying to be funny ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 16, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why dont more players look for pitches like Cust?
Just get in the batters box and look for a certain pitch in a certain area of the plate. If you get your pitch then you unload with all of your power, if you dont then you watch it go by like Cust. That is exactly what Cust does, if its not his pitch he just watches it go by. If that style of hitting is what teams like the A's are looking for, why dont more guys like Sexson take that approuch?
by asfaninpismobeach on Mar 16, 2008 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't have the right skillset?
If you're taking that approach, there's no room for error. You have to identify pitches perfectly and crush the ones you've hit. You're putting all of your eggs in a single basket.
You're also limiting your upside unless you can go Barry Bonds on the league.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 16, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but what if what differentiates Cust isn't his skillset, but his approach?
I don't think Cust is as unique a physical specimen as he is a mental specimen. It seems to me that it's his training and discipline that contribute the most to his performance. This, as opposed to Ichiro, who has a uniqe combination of discipline and rare skills.
I think AFiPB poses a really intriguing question.
That being said, it would take a massive sea change in institutional and individual attitudes for more than a handful of players to ever follow Cust's approach.
I wasn't thinking about anything. I'll have to try to do that more often. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Mar 17, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a unique mental specimen can be just as unique ...
as a unique physical specimen.
I think a change in approach could be beneficial for a few players -- but if you don't have the insane ability to judge balls and strikes that Cust does and if you don't have the ability to punish pitchers who make the mistake of throwing strikes, it isn't going to work.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 17, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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