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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

A's to Sign Foulke

Looks like a major league deal.

Star-divide

Slusser has the details.  Here's the link.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...

0 recs  |  Comment 225 comments

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Hahahaha

Doesn't seem to make much sense. But hey, can't really hurt, I guess.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Feb 8, 2008 1:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

Um...hmmm...well....

Fire Macha Yesterday!

by dboysick on Feb 8, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

wtf

first the return of sarloos, now the incredible foulke?  is john jaha coming back, too? probably smart moves by beane, especially if he decides to trade blanton and street for more prospects - we need guys who can actually play on the MLB roster to allow our many prospects to learn in minor league ball until they're fully ready to contribute. no need to rush these guys to the big show.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Feb 8, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Beane has been collecting
former Chi-Sox prospects, now he's moving on to former major leaguers.

by Sigur Ros on Feb 8, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If he gets healthy ...

he could bring a decent haul come July.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 8, 2008 1:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

well let's see if curt young is right
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 8, 2008 1:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Are the A's re-signing him to pitch, too?
"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Feb 8, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His changeup is probably down to 60 mph now
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 8, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and it has great seperation from his fastball

which sits in the high 40s.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 8, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This doesn't make any sense.

There is already a logjam in the bullpen, whether its because of option years or guys with major league contracts already.

Even if Street is traded, there wouldn't really be room for Foulke on the roster.  

Color me confused.

by mikev on Feb 8, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The roster

is full.  

With 22 year-olds, injury risks, and assorted crap.

Never a bad thing to be carrying too many pitchers.  I like the depth this move would bring along (so long as the deal is for <$1 million.)</p>

"He says lots of stupid things on the television set. He seems lazy and foolish to me." -Michael Lewis, on Joe Morgan

by BWH on Feb 8, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Although I don't really care what his deal is worth.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Feb 8, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Foulke does well,

do they get rid of Street and make Foulke the stop gap closer?

Nature's first green is gold...

by prana160 on Feb 8, 2008 1:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Why bother with Foulke though?

What about Embree, or Brown, or Devine, or Casilla, or Calero, or Duchscherer after he can't cut it as a starter, or Harden after he shatters his arm again and can only throw 15 pitches at a time?

by mikev on Feb 8, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's it.

You can trade Embree and get something back.

And you can have MotherFoulker for nothing.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Roster flexibility?

I see several potential reasons for this signing:

  • Sign Foulke to reduce closer supply, thus upping Huston's potential trade value.
  • Hope Foulke plays well enough that he can be traded for prospects.
  • Trade Embree, keep Foulke as setup guy/back-up closer.
  • Use Foulke as experienced veteran for the youngsters (ie. train-your-replacement)
  • Oakland Athletics: 2008 World Champions!!!

by calgbear on Feb 8, 2008 1:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Three-phase business plan

Exhibit A:

  1. Collect relievers.
  1. ?
  1. Oakland Athletics: 2008 World Champions!

Exhibit B:

  1. Collect underpants.
  1. ?
  1. Profit!
"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Feb 8, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This reminds me of my post

on Sickels' site about Hunter Pence (kinda sounds like underpants if you say it quickly).

Also, I've always been a Foulke fan. I don't know if he has anything left, but he's a guy I'm happy to root for.

by thejd44 on Feb 8, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane's assistants: the Undervalue Gnomes
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 2:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we were Lookout Landing

someone would have found a picture of the Gnomes and photoshopped it by now.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Feb 9, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

huh
It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 8, 2008 1:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1
"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher

by andeux on Feb 8, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is this....Groundhog Day?
Did you hear we signed Keith Foulke?

by Englishmajor on Feb 8, 2008 1:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Is this....Groundhog Day?
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Does this mean Beane has a trade lined up?

Perhaps this means Beane is set to trade Blanton, in which case Duke and Dinardo would be needed in the rotation.  Or, maybe he's set to trade Street.  

One thing is for sure... the A's are certainly and interesting team.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Feb 8, 2008 1:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

DiNardo

OK, for the last time, with Dan Meyer and Dana Eveland out of options, Gio Gonzalez; Matt Smith; and Dallas Braden; Mike Madsen; and Andrew Bailey waiting in the wings for a shot sometime during the season, and whomever comes back in the hypothetical Blanton trade you based you're argument on, all needing rotation time, there is no way DiNardo gets anything other then a spot start.

I honestly can't figure out why people want him to start so badly.  Is it they just can't accept the A's are in a rebuilding mode and would rather play the devil they know (even if his upside is nothing but a long reliever/5th starter) over a prospect who could be a #3 starter or better in the rotation for years to come?  

I just can't see any rational argument for playing Lenny DiNardo in the rotation for more then a spot start and can't see how other people constantly come to the opposite conclusion.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 8, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Eveland

Doesn't he have an option left?

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Feb 8, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Eveland has 1 option left.  Meyer has zero options left.

by Colorado Fan on Feb 8, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

Everything I've read has said Eveland is out of options.

Maybe you're thinking of Devine who has an option left due to the speed he made it to the bigs.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 8, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Farhan

In an article that was posted here a few weeks ago stated that Eveland has 1 option remaining. I'd find the article for you but I'm not that motivated.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 8, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

eveland and devine

both have one

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 8, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have one.

And so does my wife!

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

were you recruited by Berkeley?
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Everything you've read

is incorrect. He has an option.

"At least you didn't create a player named Murrary. Seriously, who the freaking hell is that even SUPPOSED to be? -Nico

by notsellingjeans on Feb 8, 2008 11:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Helloooo 1st's comment is incorrect?
It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 9, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, Hellooooooooooo 1st was right

My response was to the previous comment.

Swearing on my wife's and my future first born:

Devine and Eveland both have an option left. The confusion is understandable - at point, scout.com mis-reported that Devine was out of options, and another website had reported that Eveland was too. That led to further confusion, because our readership read THOSE columns, and spread the word.

But officially, emphatically, truly, madly, and deeply, Devine and Eveland do indeed have an option left.

And if you look at how many guys we already have committed to the big league roster, it wouldn't be a surprise if one or both of them started in the minors simply because their current contract situation allows for them to.  

With the inevitable injuries that will occur, either in ST or during the year, they will most certainly be up during the season.  

But the fact that they CAN start the season in the minors, and DiNardo and Meyer can not, almost certainly influences the team's plans on paper.

"At least you didn't create a player named Murrary. Seriously, who the freaking hell is that even SUPPOSED to be? -Nico

by notsellingjeans on Feb 9, 2008 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who's Matt Smith?

You mean Greg, right?

"He says lots of stupid things on the television set. He seems lazy and foolish to me." -Michael Lewis, on Joe Morgan

by BWH on Feb 8, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Greg Smith's upside

is Lenny DiNardo.

I'm not sure what the advantage of playing him would be. Playing DiNardo might induce a team that needs a back-of-the-rotation arm to swing a trade.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dinardo should learn the knuckleball.

He's already got the velocity for it.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Blanton + Street

For Bailey and Bruce... Come on Beane!

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Feb 8, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"I'VE ABANDONED MY CLOSER!!!"
"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Feb 8, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"IIIII...sign your closer! I sign them all up!"
I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.

by franks a lot on Feb 8, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jenks for the memories...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 8, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed

There Will Be Trades

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 8, 2008 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, now that I've seen the movie,

that's funny.

"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Feb 8, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zonis still doesn't get it
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane is a false prophet...

and Fremont is a superstition.

It's Rhodes Scholar Night at the Coliseum tonight.

by Scottbass on Feb 9, 2008 12:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Mark Mulder trade

...was a false profit.

For StLouis!

Who's with me? (Raises hand for high fives)

(Is left hanging)

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

New team motto

"Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal."

Could be my motto, too...

Looks like there's going to be a steel cage death match for bullpen spots in the spring, that's for sure. We're at, what, nine guys for seven spots now? Even with options and what I assume will be a nonguaranteed deal for Foulke, it's going to be impossible to fit everyone in.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

hahahahaha

good motto to have

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 8, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wow. simply amazing
Home of the Rod Barajas Movement

by CyZito on Feb 9, 2008 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But we're the A's.

By the end of spring training, 6 of those guys will have Tommy Johns.

We're like Dusty Baker, only through apathy rather than incompetence!

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In other transaction news

the Erik Bedard trade went final today.

Let us all say a prayer of thanks for the incompetence of Bill Bavasi.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 1:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow..I like that for Seattle

A flat out stud SP for guys who MAY end up being studs.  Gimme the sure thing....Makes Seattle instant contenders with Anaheim, something they werent with Adam Jones instead.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are you just a contrarian

or do you really believe these things?

contenders with anaheim?  too far.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 8, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I view him as the Skip Bayless of AN...

definitely a contrarian, but does not view himself as such.

by SwisherSweet33 on Feb 8, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...low blow.

Skip Bayless sucks.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah... celebrity blowjobs...
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, I believe it...

That is how good I think Bedard is.  I take a top 5 pitcher in MLB for an OF prospect any day of the week.  He and Felix are a nasty 1/2.  Yea, AJ may end up beign great, Bedard already is.  I think they can contend with Anaheim.  I still dont love the Angels O with Torii and Kelvin already may not be ready to start the season.  I think Seattle is a definite contender in the West.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i agree with you on how good he is

whether they are now contenders is another thing

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 8, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, he and Felix are a nasty 1-2.

So that puts them at 64 wins for the year.

Well done, Seattle.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not too far if ...

Escobar spends a significant amount of time on the DL.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Feb 8, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you think Seattle was a contender last year,

this view makes some sense.

I do not. I view Seattle, last year, as a team which was insignificantly, if at all, better than an A's team which was grotesquely decimated by injuries-- in a year in which Seattle had virtually none of them.

Silva and Bedard are a major upgrade on Ramirez and Weaver, that's for sure. Probably 7-8 wins better. But the downgrade from Jones to, I guess, Brad Wilkerson eats into that, as does the loss of Sherrill-- and the long-term price they're paying is enormous. Meanwhile, I think they're still significantly weaker than Anaheim (albeit within striking distance if they luck out) and they've seriously damaged their farm system in the process.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And there's no guarantee

they'll have Bedard for more than 2 seasons - and since most people don't expect the A's to seriously contend over the next 2 years this actually could be great for Oakland. Seattle is better during years Oakland isn't ready, then when all those M's prospects are ready to really contribute, well, they're in Baltimore now and Bedard is either going elsewhere or staying in Seattle on a big-money deal while starting his post-prime years.

by thejd44 on Feb 8, 2008 9:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The dowgrade

from AJ to Wilkerson might be great, the downgrade from Jose Guillen to Wilkerson, once you consider Guillen's D last year, is probably not.

Of course, the long term price is likely to be heavy.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 9, 2008 2:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds Familiar

Trading a stud for guys who may end up being studs.  Beane has been doing that for years.

by Archaeologist on Feb 8, 2008 8:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As Foulke once said...

"I had to take the money and run."

Welcome back to the guy who was indirectly responsible for Arthur Rhodes as the A's closer in 2004.

I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.

by franks a lot on Feb 8, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yup

and I'm still pissed he tried to "sneak" a fastball past Ortiz (Game 4,'04)... he goes with the change there and I think Papi (god, I hate that nickname)screws himself into the ground and strikes out.
I still think they told him "if you throw the game, we'll sign you next year and win it all." Bastards.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Feb 8, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As with the Emil Brown signing...

I will invoke..."The pennant is ours!!!!"

I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.

by franks a lot on Feb 8, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Green Machine?
"The A's player I was always uneasy with when he came up in the critical spot was all of them."--Tosk

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Feb 8, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You get pennants for 50 wins these days?
Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You might in the NL Central ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for wrecking my attempt

to forget the-closer-who-shall-not-be-named. That's years of therapy wasted. **sob**

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Feb 8, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually use Rhodes as a reliever on MVP05

I think that if I play well with him enough I can get history to be re-written and all of those blown saves will go away.

I have mecir as a AAAA injury fill in also.

Rickey Henderson: 35, 24, hall of fame!

by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 9, 2008 5:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I need to buy one of those machines

because everytime I think about Rhodes, I still feel queasy. It seemed like everytime he came in the game it was a blown-save. I know that's not true but that's the way it felt. Never have wished him well since...yeah I hold grudges.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 9, 2008 5:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i used to use

rhodes as a starter for the orioles in triple play '97...can't beat that game. jason giambi listed at third base. wonderful.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the A's looked at the rotation and said,

"We need to shorten the game to...like...3 innings. Then it's Brown, Devine, Embree, Casilla, Foulke, and Street." AL West crown, here we come!!!!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 8, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

LaRussa and multiple pitchers/game

LaRussa tried using multiple pitchers in a game.  He paired pitchers up, with the first guy slated to go something like four or five innings and the second guy wouldget the resst of the game.  It didn't work very well from what I remember.

Tony also would switch pitchers every batter as he did several times in the 1994 season.  This worked for a short while but the bullpen was starting to implode from overuse when the strike saved them from getting totally torched.

by skwid on Feb 8, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC, it was

three 3-man groups.  The starter would be limited to 3 innings, the next guy 3 innings, and then they'd go from there.

It didn't work out well, but I've always wondered whether that was because it was a poor scheme, or just poor talent attempting to execute the scheme.

by calgbear on Feb 8, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, for one thing..

...it doesn't make sense to pull a guy who is stomping for three innings, to replace him with someone starting from scratch.

I could see it working for a spot start, or even a #5 spot if you have two similar guys vying for the spot, but I think the option that would be more likely to work if tried would be a 6th starter who was, say a lefty, who would come in after two innings of a right-handed 5th starter, to exploit match-ups for the majority of the game.

That's why MVP '05 method, and it works rather nicely on teams that alter their lineup to suit the hand they're facing.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the three inning rotation

That was in 1993 when they were already out of contention.  

I would love to see an article about it as I have not seen one in awhile.

Rickey Henderson: 35, 24, hall of fame!

by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 9, 2008 5:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I will boo this loser everytime he comes

into the game; in fact, any time I see him.  I'll never forgive him for blowing game 4 of the ALDS against Boston in 2003 and then leaving Oakland for Boston "so he could go somewhere to win a World Series."

Memo to Foulke: had you not blown that game we very well could have won the World Series.

Message to Foulke: Foulke YOU!

by SwisherSweet33 on Feb 8, 2008 2:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Will it be

an Incredible Foulke You?

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Feb 8, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

rofl my wafl
President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 8, 2008 6:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Foulke's arm was clearly sore

When he got overworked that year, his fastball dropped from low-90s to high-80s, and his changeup became less effective as a result.  I was expecting him to get hit there from how he was throwing.

I was kinda hoping for a screaming liner right to 1st.

And if the A's had won, they would have gone the rest of the postseason without Hudson or Mulder, and evidently having to count Steve Sparks as part of the rotation.

It sucks that the wheels were coming off, and I wish they had finished off Boston, but I don't think a championship was in the cards.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 8, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not a championship, but

at least a trip to the second round.  Hudson, I remember being hurt.  I don't recall anything being wrong with Mulder.

by SwisherSweet33 on Feb 8, 2008 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was out the entire last few months

of that season.

Still, the rotation in the next round would have looked like Zito, Lilly, Harden, random-- which isn't THAT bad.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Dammit, our starters are dropping like flies!

Where's Harden?!"

God knows how he would have pitched, since he was coming out of the bullpen that series and not pitching very well (Chavez saved his ass when he caught that shot down the line in Game 1).  And, IIRC, that was during the time when Peterson had changed Harden's delivery (not without reason, it turns out!) and he wasn't pitching very consistently.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 8, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

especially with

Lilly dominating like he was.  I don't think we would have been in that bad of shape.  I know Huddy missed his turn due to the bar fight, but would he have missed round 2?

by SwisherSweet33 on Feb 8, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lilly was kicking serious ass--

he could have ended up being one of those crazy feel-good postseason stories in the second round.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Feb 8, 2008 11:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder

said that he wouldve pitched in hte LCS had they made it that far.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 8, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

too many other things went wrong that series

miggy and byrnes on the basepaths in game 3, the mystery behind hudson's injury, macha leaving zito in one pitch too long in game 5, and then batting melrose for dye in the last of the ninth.

i don't think bringing him back makes much sense, but i wouldn't hang that series loss solely on his shoulders.

as for his comment about going to a winner, well, ok, it doesn't make much sense. but maybe it was to please the ears of the bostonians, and not necessarily a parting shot at oakland.

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 8, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Miggy and Chavez
flubbing gimme DPs in the one inning that the Sox scored before the 11th in Game 3.  Oh, and Varitek scoring on an obstruction call.

Man, that game sucked.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 8, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember watching that game and just sreaming

"wtf??!?!?!?" over and over and over......

Rickey Henderson: 35, 24, hall of fame!

by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 9, 2008 5:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we win that night

and there is no Huddy-bar scene, or anything else that followed.

damn.

but i guess the world needed to see Yanks-Sox again, Pedro-Zimmer, Aaron Bleeping Boone, et al.

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 9, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He made a bad pitch to Papi

and was asked to save a one run game and to pitch 2 innings.  Not like he blew some easy, big lead save.  Seems a bit much to never forgive him for.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oaktown Power, my buddy...we meet again

failures on the field are forgiveable.  Comments made to the press that he wanted to go somewhere where he could win a World Series are something not easily forgotten.  Sometimes I think you just disagree with me for the sake of disagreement.

Go A's

by SwisherSweet33 on Feb 8, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If that were really the case

Oaktown Power would end all his comments with "Stop A's"

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Feb 8, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I hate the A's

because I am not always optimistic...Doesnt make me root for them less.  Good try though.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

you missed DMOAS' joke here.

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Feb 9, 2008 1:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didnt even look at the name when I posted

Have we disagreed a lot?  If you just said the comments to the press fine, but you included the blown save.  That was as tough a save as one can have....just saying I wouldnt dislike him for that....That was a very tough spot to go into.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 5:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

I can see having an issue with his comments.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 8, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On the upside..

..should he make the Hall of Fame, maybe he'll wear our cap now!

</snark>

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is how I feel about Foulke:

Foulke was good enough that Beane actually made a competetive offer to him before he left as a free agent. Unfortunately for us, he signed with the dreaded Red Sox, a traitorous gambit unrivalled in the history of baseball since Giambi signed with the Yankees before 2002.  The backup plan to Keith Foulke was Tom Gordon, a reliable set up man who had previous closing experience.  But Foulke dilly-dallied too long, and by the time he decided to sign with Boston, Gordon had gone to New York.  The backup to the backup plan was Arthur Rhodes, making - in my irrational mind - Foulke solely responsible for this game, the last I saw in the Coliseum before moving away to - of all places - Boston, where I had to hear about how he was the world's greatest closer during their championship run in 2004.  The worst part was having to hear how the Red Sox "discovered" him, as if saving over 40 games with the A's hadn't put him on the map.

So enjoy your retirement, Keith Foulke.  May Arthur Rhodes haunt you nightly.

link

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 8, 2008 3:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

foulke is my least favorite former a's player

foulke is the reason we ended up with rhodes and then traded for dotel.  considering the 04 a's missed the playoffs by one game, i blame foulke for that as well.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 8, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

another reason to hate Foulke...

....if not for him, Huddy would've won the Cy Young. Foulke blew like 8 saves in his best year, and I think 6 of them were Huddy's (potential) wins. Huddy ended that year something like 15-5.
18-5 or better would've been good for the hardware....

by kitoko on Feb 8, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

6 Degrees of Keith Foulke

Can all A's-related (and maybe worldwide) misfortunes be connected to him?  Quite possibly!

I am Ray Fosse's man crushes for Clay Wood and Jason Kendall.

by franks a lot on Feb 8, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I once heard

his former baby-sitter dated Kirk Gibson.

Also had a tip that his dad knew Billy Hatcher.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Feb 8, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Keith Foulke secretly owns ...

... every single parcel in the flea-market lot.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 2:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Keith Foulke spent last year...

living on the third deck.

The A's were nice enough to give him a tarp.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

specifically, in section 317

That's where the A's got the idea for the AYCE promotion -- fans in 317, like opposing batters facing Foulke, will get to feast on junk.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget keeping him singlehandedly

out of the All-Star Game by blowing 3 or 4 saves for him in the first half, his only blown saves at that point. He even said in an article that he was the reason that Huddy wasn't going.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Feb 8, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i read a little bit

and once people started hating on white cleats, i x'ed out of that box quick

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so Foulke doesn't "want to sign with a winner"?

That reputed quote after he strung the A's along only to sign with Boston didn't seem to make alot of sense then since the A's were contenders (although Foulke did  get on the 2004 World Series winner)....but now it's obviously not his concern.

I was reading on MLB Trade Rumors that Foulke was throwing in the 81-84 mph range...

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Foulke's exact quote in 2003

when he signed with the Sux:

"I want to be a winner before I get out," Foulke said by phone from his home in Arizona, "and I can't imagine a better place to be than Boston over the next three or four years."

Nothing about winning the World Series...

Here's the link

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2008 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I see it more

Not so much an insult to the A's as a compliment to the Sox.  If you wanted to win as much as possible would you rather go to Boston or LAA in 2008?  Doesn't mean LAA couldn't win in the next couple years, they're very talented for sure, but if you were looking for best chance to win I don't think its that hard to choose.  

by SuperBean on Feb 8, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that would make sense in 2008

but the comment was made in 2003.

It is theoretically possible to compliment the new team without dissing the old one..

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And Boston won more games

in 2004 and 2005 than Oakland did.  7 more games in each.  Its possible that it would have been closer with Foulke for us and we could have skipped the whole Rhodes/Dotel experience, but I doubt it would have been a 7 game switch.

by SuperBean on Feb 8, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, maybe?

I doubt it but I mean its possible.  Maybe he's a great talent evaluator.  Maybe he just guessed and got lucky.

Whatever the reason he was right.

by SuperBean on Feb 8, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was right wasn't he? they won the WS.

As much as I hate the blown save and going to Red Sox.  Just because he thought Boston had the best chance to win doesn't mean he thought Oakland sucked.  PLUS he said those comments after signing with them, of course he's going to say that.

Maybe the A's want Foulke to help Street with his change up?  

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Feb 8, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or that his plan was to blow saves...

...then hang on long enough to get the win.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no

that was billy koch

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

boooo.

i was so mad at him after '03 and the running-to-the-red-sox thing. that won't be forgotten too easily.

by whiteshoes40 on Feb 8, 2008 5:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Slusser says it's official

she writes that the A's have announced their signing Foulke (some might say five years too late)

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2008 5:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and the A's press release

announcing Foulke's signing is on their website now

To make room for Foulke on the 40-man roster, they DFA'd first baseman Wes Bankston

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the Giants will claim him

although they didn't bother to claim Chris Shelton... who is presumably better...

Well, who knows what dark thoughts traverse the mind of Brian Sabean.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why do the giants not do anything

that they don't do...

a paradox.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 8, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Shelton is too young.

Incidentally, so too is Piazza.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So which traded player was OaklandA23?

We haven't been getting any pre-release alerts for a while!

"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Feb 8, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

None other than the linchpin in the AZ deal...

Connor Robertson.

It's Rhodes Scholar Night at the Coliseum tonight.

by Scottbass on Feb 9, 2008 12:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah.

The players are the last to know.

I've told more guys in Vancouver that they're being sent up/down than you can even know.

"I'm going where? Hey coach, do you have something to tell me?"  <Oz exits stage left>

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A re-run?

Yippee!  Could this mean Swish is coming back, in 3 to 5 years, too, just in time for the new park?

"Schilling is an A-hole. The End." Amnesiac727

by LilAnnieOaktown on Feb 8, 2008 6:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rerun? Hey, Rog!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 9, 2008 6:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of remember writing

a post that was titled something like Foulke You, You Foulking Foulke after he signed with the Sox.  It was probably because he was truly a great sight to see coming into the game when he was here.  Especially after the roller coaster rides that Izzy and Koch always seemed to be.

Regardless, he's another temporary player in a transitional season.  The good news is that is he's healthy, the A's could easily deal Street now knowing that they have another option in the pen to at least take his place.  Or they could flip Foulke to a contending team if he proves his value.  

by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 8, 2008 7:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This doesn't sound ...

like such good news to me.

The good news is that is he's healthy, the A's could easily deal Street now knowing that they have another option in the pen to at least take his place.

I like Utter Hotness!

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 8, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better than Tofu Elk Hike?
"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Feb 9, 2008 11:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely...

I know what Tofu is, I know what a hike is, and I know what an elk is...what I am not sure of is what is meant when you put those 3 words together. hehe.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 9, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He fikkle out?
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ooh! much better!

Marginal thematic relevance more than outweighs incorrect spelling.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Feb 10, 2008 1:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN is reporting

the deal is for $700,000 with incentives that could boost it to $2.5 million.

Also, I'm sad to see so many people here aren't Foulke fans. As someone who has brought signs to baseball games, I feel like my best one was "Foulke You, KW. Koch Blows (Saves)." Held it up as Foulke was coming to the visitors bullpen at Comiskey in 2003. It got a laugh out of him.

I really don't see how this is a bad deal. Even if Foulke doesn't have it anymore, it's worth the $700,000. And if he's good, he's definitely mid-season trade bait.

by thejd44 on Feb 8, 2008 10:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

people hate Foulke

because he played the A's to get a better offer from the RedSox with out even meaning to sign with the A's at all, which led the A's to;

a) miss getting Tom Gordon
b) Lead to the A's getting the remnants of Arthur Rhodes
c) Trade Ted Lilly for Bobby Kielty

by Zonis on Feb 8, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I have no problem with Klown Power.

If Foulke got us Bobby Mac, then he gets a golf clap from me.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he doesnt have it, it's a complete waste of $

Given that the A's have been spending pretty heavily on Latin free agents this offseason, I'd think that 700K would have been possibly better spent on another few high ceiling youngsters instead of a "stopgap" who hasn't thrown a pitch in 2 years - especially when there are like 8 guys to fill 5 positions in the bullpen even without Foulke.

But hey, I guess we can go after Billy McMillon and maybe Gil Heredia or Ron Darling if we trade Blanton.

by mikev on Feb 8, 2008 10:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not go overboard here

There's a limit to the amount of money you can spend effectively overseas before it gets to the point of just handing out cash to teenagers. (And it's not like other teams aren't signing themselves.) It's $700K. That's not really a lot of money, and the A's have plenty in reserve for farm system upgrades.

As with Emil Brown, the deal is a flyer on a guy who might bring in a prospect or two at the deadline. It certainly worked wonders for the Rangers with Gagne last season.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 8, 2008 11:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen Eric Gagne. I've watched Eric Gagne.

Emil Brown is no Eric Gagne.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Foulke pans out ...

we'll get ~2 B caliber prospects for him. We'd be lucky if one of those 2 LA free agents turned into a B prospect three years from now.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 8, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two comments - Foulke and the M's

*Too bad that during his year away from the game, Foulke wasn't taking his Sammy Sosa/Troy Percival year-away-from-the-game cocktails that don't get tested for when you "retire". (Why do you think Roger Clemens started giving himself 8 month offseasons the last few years?)

*I DO think Mariners have to at least be considered potential contenders. We've been saying for two-plus years now that the Angels are a Vlad back injury away from being quite vulnerable. At this point, the Mariners would be the obvious beneficiaries of that (mis)fortune, while the Rangers and A's have plotted different courses.

Two huge IFs, and I recognize their implausibility:

  1. IF the Mariners signed Bonds and planted him at DH, then platooned Vidro/Sexson at first to maximize their health and contribution, and
  1. IF Vlad does finally break down...

...a 90-win Mariners season and a playoff berth are not hard for me to fathom at all.

I think the M's had to do Bedard. Bavasi doesn't have Billy Beane-like job security; that forces his hand. He's gotta win soon, so he might as well go for broke, otherwise he'll be watching the team from his couch in two years anyway.

Secondly, their entire franchise and fan base would be kicking themselves if the Angels tanked and yet still were allowed to win the division with an NL Central-esque 85 wins.  That's could've happened if the Mariners had stood pat this offseason.  

Somebody had to at least make the Angels break a sweat to get into the playoffs.

(And I also think that Beane forsaw the M's going for broke four months ago, and that factored into his decision to rebuild. I think he knew that if he stood pat he'd end up the 3rd best team on paper, and that's much, much different than being #2 on paper. The #2 team only needs one other team to suffer bad luck to sweep in there).

"At least you didn't create a player named Murrary. Seriously, who the freaking hell is that even SUPPOSED to be? -Nico

by notsellingjeans on Feb 9, 2008 12:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I still think the A's

have as much talent as the Mariners. I just don't like how the Mariners run their organization. I'm not a fan of a lot of their guys, even if they do have a solid system (but aren't most of those guys 19 and years away?).

by thejd44 on Feb 9, 2008 2:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really? Who on the A's is Ichiro?

Who on the A's rotation can touch Bedard?
Putz is a real closer--we have Street who is so shakey we got Foulke as the plan B.
Do we have a home run threat like Sexson?
Do we have a young stud starter like Felix?
Mariners are not great--but they have established stars and two super stars--Bedard and Suzuki.

by Aparicio11 on Feb 9, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Um

Huston Street is a better pitcher than JJ Putz.

Also, Richie Sexson is unbelievably godawful. Jack Cust was approximately 923749027 times better last season.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 9, 2008 10:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putz is better

and not injury prone.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 9, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Putz is more consisitent. The Mariners can count on him.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 9, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cmon....Better than Putz?

Have you looked at his line the last two years?  Just remarkable seasons.  I love Huston more than most, but he aint Putz, sorry.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Feb 9, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Over 4 seasons from age 27 to 30,

Putz has averaged 17 pitching runs above average.

Over 3 seasons from age 21 to 23, Street has averaged 15.67. In both of those seasons, his numbers have been depressed by injuries. He gave up about half the runs he surrendered in all of 2006 during about a week and a half dead-arm period.

Honestly, if I was to predict which one would perform better solely for next season, I'd pick Putz. But I have no doubt whatsoever that Street will have the better career of the two.

I'm not sure why so many people here have such a negative opinion of him-- is it just because he doesn't throw ridiculously hard? It's not his fault that the team ran out of relievers and he had to go three innings in the last game of the '06 LCS.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 9, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't that

We have a negative opinion of Street. It's that Putz is doing such a great job in Seattle while Street spent a lot of the season on the bench last year injured. And remember he can't have a better career than Putz unless he has a healthy career.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 9, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of misleading to use 3 year totals ...

Street's best year was three years ago, so was Putz' worst.

Over the last two, Street has averaged 11 praa and 60-1/3 ip (prorated to 13.7 runs over 75 ip), Putz has averaged 33.5 and 75.

2005 matters -- but much less so than 2006 and 2007.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

Putz added a sinker after 2005 corresponding to the big jump in his numbers, so his 2005 should be discounted even more.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 9, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how many pitches does he throw now?

4?

I only ask because of that mild elbow strain he had some previous spring.

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 9, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know how many he has

but he pretty much only throws the fastball and splitter at this point.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 9, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is incorrect.

It is always better to use three year totals than one year totals.  That's one of the biggest misconceptions in fandom.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 9, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was using two years ...

If the most recent two years are very different from the one three years out, you shouldn't weight them more heavily?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, unless you have a good reason to strike

performance from the record (learned a new pitch is one reason, but I don't consider injury to be another) you are better off not doing it.  Thumb-on-scale skullduggery is bad for you.

I will be writing something for THT next week about dynamic weighting of past performance.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 9, 2008 6:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More heavily than "normally"?

Unless you know something specific that would cause a permanent change in performance: new pitch, the guy has had both his knees explode on him: tore his ACLs, MCLs, LCLs, PCLs and meniscii on both knees, or something like that, suffered a shoulder separation AND dislocation, I would argue no.

If you don't know, would it not be better to just leave the data in there, and weight it normally?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 10, 2008 3:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is basically correct.
stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 10, 2008 6:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not always

If someone adds a new pitch and suddenly gets way better, that is a good reason to not use three year totals. If, say, Kielty switched to RH-only and his split came way back to the center, that would be another reason to distrust a three year total.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Feb 9, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that is true.
stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 9, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i love huston

but i don't think after a season with a sub-.7 whip or whatever it was, putz is not as good as him.

side note: holy shit, i had no idea putz is about to turn 31. wtf?

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny post

I'm not much of an Ichiro fan. He's fine now, but if there's a such thing as an empty .333 average, he's it. He's already in his mid-30s and he won't be worth the money (on the field) they're paying him now.

Sure, they have Bedard. Felix has been up and down. He's so young and probably will be good for a while, but to act like he's a top pitcher in the game or something isn't right. Plus, it can be argued that the A's have 2 or 3 young studs like Felix. They just might not be pitching at the start of 2008.

The A's signed Foulke because Street is shaky? Well, that's an outright distortion of reality. Now, if you had said they signed Foulke because Street is a top-notch established closer who might be traded, that would make sense. Street is 23. Putz is 30. Give me Street every single day of the week and fifty times on Sunday.

Sexson? Seriously? Ok, just stop. Please. Come on now. Last year Sexson had 2 more home runs than Mark Ellis. And Sexson, as far as I know, doesn't even like unicorns. Sexson is terrible now and there's a handful (if not more) of A's players who are more of a home run threat.

The Mariners overachieved to win 88 games last year (pythagorean record of 79-83), and it can easily be argued that they aren't really any better this season - even with the addition of Bedard. I expect the A's to be a .500 team in 2008.

by thejd44 on Feb 9, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putz was the best closer in baseball last year

Check the stats--not the name. Street was 13th--behind Embree--in the AL. His blown save % was among the highest.
Sexson when healty is a consistent 35 HR-100 rbi guy--yes he strikes out plenty. But the A's have noone with that track record.
A's may or may not have young piticng studs --Felix is starting MLB games--not dreaming of starting MLB games.
You must be right Ichiro is an overpaid hack.
All of Billy's over paid hacks are on the A's payroll but not the roster.

by Aparicio11 on Feb 9, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah

All of Billy's over paid hacks are on the A's payroll but not the roster.

Good point!

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 9, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that reports of Richie Sexson's demise ..

may be slightly exaggerated.

He's probably not as pathetic as he was last year. I think .260/.330/.500 would be a reasonable expectation for him -- with significant upside in Slg and downside everywhere. .830 OPS is a league average 1b. It's not great, but it's not horrible.

JJ Putz has been incredible the last two years. Definitely better than Street. The concern, though, is that he had never been particularly good before that and, given his age, is someone for whom the odds are going to get much, much worse over time.

Felix Hernandez is a good, very young pitcher. What's a little troubling, though, is that his numbers, across the board, were almost identical the last two years. He didn't show any improvement, at all. His k, bb, hr rates stayed almost exactly the same, while his hit rate increased a bit. He's still so young and has such fantastic stuff, that, assuming he stays healthy, he will be a star. It's far from certain that he'll stay healthy, though, and there's a very good chance that this isn't the year he'll break through.

I'd hardly call Eric Bedard an established superstar, when he's had one season in his career that he has managed to stay healthy all year and one that he posted a superstar caliber era ... and, no, they weren't the same year.

I'd agree that Ichiro is a superstar -- with the caveat that stardom does not necessarily correlate with ++ talent. Ichiro is a good player. He hits for a great average, supplements it with a reasonable amount of power and a reasonable number of walks (both below average, but not terribly so). He is a terror on the basepaths and adds a few runs a year for his team there. He's a good player -- he's not a great player. He's an insanely unique player -- and that's why he's a superstar.

You had it right, when you said that JD should check the stats, not the name for Putz v Street ...

You seem to have kind of forgotten that with everyone else.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Richie Sexson

is a league average player with a 14M dollar contract. He's not the player to tout when arguing for the Mariners' chances at the AL West.

Putz/Street is about a wash in my opinion, though I think there are cases to be made for either pitcher.

I think, since the Mariners made the Bedard deal, they should be going all in for the next 2 seasons. I'd have to look at their roster/contracts more closely, but they'll need to improve their team more if they want to feel good about '08 and '09.

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 9, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Without repeating all the above analysis

to make these points, my two cents:

  • A healthy Putz is better than a healthy Street, but given their ages I might still rather have Street long-term. But for 2008, given health and current levels of domination, I'll take Putz.
  • Sexson is really overrated and grossly overpaid. I'll take Barton right now over Sexson at 1B.
  • Bedard (assuming health) is a legitimate #1 in his prime - that doesn't mean Seattle made a good trade, but it does mean they significantly upgraded for 2008.
  • Ichiro is a damn good player. Not just the high average (and yes, singles are better than walks) but also "steal 40 bases in a row without getting caught speed" and top-notch defense at any OF position, including CF.

Finally, Seattle and Oakland are still not in LAA territory for likely contention, but I wouldn't be shocked if either finished ahead of the other in the standings. Harden, Duchscherer, and Gaudin's health, all iffy (in that order) could make a HUGE difference.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 9, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putz/Street

is very close. Here's my take:

Putz:

He's gonna rack up more Ks and fewer walks for at least a slightly better K/BB.

He's under a nice contract through '10.
08:$3.4M, 09:$5M, 10:$8.6M ($1M buyout) per Cot's

He's a lower injury risk than Street.

Soon to be 31, he's entering his decline phase. In my opinion, the $1m buyout mitigates most of this risk.

fangraphs page

Street:

Improved on his K rate last season, though he was a bit wilder in general.

Under club control for 3 more seasons.

Has to be considered at least a moderate injury risk with last year's scare and his delivery.

At 24, he hasn't peaked yet and it's a good bet that he'll improve over the course of his tenure with the A's.

fangraphs page

If you look at their respective projections (fangraphs links) you'll see they're nearly identical. When considering Street will probably be paid only slightly less, improve, but is also a more significant injury risk, it's pretty much a wash.

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 9, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of a reply to everyone ...

who cares about their contracts? The A's are a better value. The Mariners are a better team. I believe the latter is the point of this here discussion.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

as long as MLB is a business,

it matters to me.

I know I'm not cutting the checks, but there are financial limitations for every team, so it makes sense to evaluate the contract attached to a given player. Especially when you consider that players are paid according to their performance (in theory) and that value per dollar can vary a great deal.

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 9, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It matters to the A's ...

they need to be more efficient, since they are going to have a lower payroll.

It matters less to the Mariners, since they are going to have a fairly high payroll.

When comparing the two teams, the fact that the Mariners have several talented, but overpaid players and the A's have less talented, but better bargain players is inconsequential.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 9, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I agree.

Sexson makes a difference for them I think, but, like I said, Putz has a great deal for them. You're right, the differences in contract for Putz/Street is inconsequential. I was only trying to be complete in my comparison.

The other reason contracts matter is because $14M players don't sit on the bench in favor of better players on the cheap.

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 9, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously, every team has financial limitations,

But if you are going to consider value per dollar from a business standpoint, how about also considering things like ticket sales, TV ratings, fan spending on overpriced beer and food, revenues, franchise value?

All of these matter to MLB businesses too. Not just marginal wins per dollar spent.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 10, 2008 4:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys are all forgetting..

...the power and awe created by Jose Vidro.

Utter dominance.

</snark>

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i think vidro

posted a negative SLG% last year

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putz vs Street

On the funny name scale, both score pretty well, but Putz gets the nod here.

On the anagram scale they couldn't be any more different.  Huston Street has an awesomely awesome anagram, whereas J J Putz is quite possibly the most un-anagrammable name in all of major-league baseball.

On the Scrabble points scale, Putz outscores Street 23-15, and that's counting the fact that you have to use a blank for the second J.  Give him a second bag of tiles and Putz goes up to a phenomenal 31.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Feb 10, 2008 1:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the kind of analysis

that makes AN great!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 10, 2008 8:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

iawtp
Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Feb 10, 2008 9:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally the kind of analysis

on AN that makes perfect sense.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 10, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And if you don't have a healthy Putz...

...you can always take a Viagra.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 9, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putz up or shutz up
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 9, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Save percentage is a retarded stat

even for closers, who enter varying numbers of games at varying levels of leads. A guy who comes in with a 3-run lead and serves up a grand slam deserves a lot more blame than a guy who comes in in the 8th inning of a one-run game and gives up a scratch run on a sac fly.

When you add in the fact that for a large part of last year, Street wasn't closing at all, and thus had no opportunity to get any saves at all (although he had plenty of opportunity to get blown saves) it becomes an even worse comparison.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 9, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree, and add how poorly constructed

the definition of a blown save is in regards to set up men blowing "saves" by giving up a 7th or 8th inning run in a game they were never going to save. That's how excellent set-up men - who very occasionally let a lead get away but never pitch the 9th inning -  get save percentages like 0% (0/6, where maybe even three of those six are the result of giving up a two-out single in the 8th and then watching the LOOGY come in to give up a game-tying double).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 9, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro's average is not empty.

It has never been empty. Getting on base is getting on base, regardless of whether it was a result of walks or hits. Getting on base as a result of walks is not better than getting on base as a result of hits. It's actually, in most cases, worse.

Batting Runs above average, which weights OBP correctly, includes SBs, Ichiro, from 2001, his first year in MLB:

30, 21, 13, 36, 14, 16, 27, total: 158.

Despite age, no real signs of imminent decline yet.

For comparison, Carlos Beltran, in the same period:
20, 14, 29, 12, 24, 2, 47, 30, total: 178.

Andruw Jones:
2, 30, 20, 12, 33, 29, (-6), total: 120

Torii Hunter:
(-3), 16, (-6), 4, 5, 7, 13, total: 36

Carlos Lee, to compare Ichiro with a slugging corner type, since Ichiro played corner prior to 2007:

1, 13, 11, 22, 12, 18, 10, 28, total: 115.

As for the money, like the contract that Johan Santana signed with the Mets, a significant part of Ichiro's contract is deferred.

$25M of that $90M contract is deferred, at a 5% interest rate. They only need to start paying some of that $25M the moment he retires.

Cots estimates the average annual value at $16.1M, over 5 years.

Consider that the inflation rate in MLB is consistently over 5%: 8-10 %.

That $25M / 5 now, is likely to be worth significantly less in terms of playing talent when Ichiro retires.

There is some disagreement about his D. UZR and ZR don't like him. RZR really likes him, plus minus likes him, but to a lesser extent than RZR. Assume that it is average

His offense the last 3 years has been 14,16, 27 runs above average.

Say a total of 50 runs above average over the next 5 years, which is not exactly an optimistic projection, given his record: It's less then half his value over the last 5 years.

If you believe that his defense is awful, 20 runs below average, which UZR believes, then no, definitely not worth the contract.

If you assume that his D is average, then overpay, a value of $51.2M, using Tango's salary chart, versus a contract of $80M.

If you assume that his D is pretty good, say 10 runs above average, then he is essentially being paid what he is worth: $78M.

To be "worth" his contract, he needs to be around 100 runs above average over the next 5 years, offense and defense.

Felix Hernandez was 21 in 2007. With a career ERA+ of 110 in 465 MLB IP. His DIPS stats, K / BB rate, GB rate, are also very good.

Fautino de los Santos, for comparison, also 21, with 122 professional IP, and only 24 in A+ and none higher.

Gio Gonzalez, 21 at AA.

Trevor Cahill, 19 at A.

Brett Anderson, 19 at A+.

Felix might not be a great pitcher yet, but it seems fanboyish to say that the A's stud pitching prospects are anywhere close to being comparable to Felix.

Non A's: Clay Buchholz, 22, 22 IP in MLB. Phil Hughes, 21, 72 MLB IP.

Felix is younger or at a comparable age as most top pitching prospects, and he is already an established, good MLB pitcher.

I agree with you about the rest.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 10, 2008 4:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so does that mean this current group hates Zito

too, since the opportunity to win multiple championships (oh...and the money helped too!) were the reasons he joined the GIANTS of all teams.  Maybe he was high at the time?

At least Foulke joined a good team and isn't a liar.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Feb 9, 2008 6:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

Yes, it does.

Fuck Zito.

Notes From The Nat has a new home: http://www.natnotes.com - Stop by and mock me for getting my domain stolen.

by Ozzz on Feb 9, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe?

is there a question?

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Foulke

I really hope this isn't a precursor to a Huston Street or Alan Embree trade. I've never been very high on Keith Foulke. Hopefully this is just going to be a deal that involves us selling high at the trade deadline. Assuming, that is, that he actually pitches well.

by OrlandoAsFan on Feb 9, 2008 2:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I always loved Foulke - a guy who has

Blanton's fastball command and Pedro Martinez's changeup. When he was topping out at 93 MPH, he was awesome and when he was topping out at 90 MPH, he was great. If he's topping out at 86-87 MPH, however...Not sure.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 9, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It does not matter

how hard you throw the fastball. The only thing that matters is location, location, location. When Foulke was on, his location was top 3 in the majors.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 9, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree to a point - it matters

how early hitters have to commit to what looks like a fastball. If Foulke threw 100 MPH with his fastball command and with his changeup, he'd be unhittable, and if he threw 70 MPH with his fastball command and with his changeup he'd be ineffective. 93 MPH, 90 MPH, and 85 MPH do make a difference for a Keith Foulke - just not as much as they do for a Chad Gaudin.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 9, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Foulke is still full of quotes

take this for example, from the A's website:

"It came to who made the best offer, and would give me the best chance to succeed early in the season," he said. "Oakland has succeeded with, probably, less talent. That's their benchmark; it's how they do things. It's a great place to play."

Forst also says that Foulke topped out at 85 mph

by OaklandSi on Feb 9, 2008 8:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So is he saying

that because he has less talent, he's a good fit with the A's?  Because I can't really disagree with any of that...

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Feb 9, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If 85 MPH was OUR people's spin on it...

Eek.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 9, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, let's wait and see

Paul Byrd has been serving up batting-practice fastballs for the last 10 years or so.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Feb 9, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

... and that's *with* the steroids!

(Yes, I know, pitchers don't 'roid to add mph but durability.)

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 10, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

(and it was hGH)
stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 10, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and

muscle to have more mass behind the ball

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 12, 2008 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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