Oakland Marginally On Fantasy Radar
I’m sure I can’t be the only one who has had an incredibly fast winter, but here we sit on the day before Spring Training, ready to kick off another season of Oakland Athletics’ baseball, killing time until we can open a game thread to decipher the Buan-casting on the radio.
In preparation for the season, mixed with some genuine curiosity, and not a small amount of coercing from a fantasy junkie, I found myself attending the First Pitch Forum, hosted by Baseball HQ. As some of you may well know, the Oakland portion of this forum was held on Saturday, and the Los Angeles forum on Sunday. Ron Shandler was supposed to be speaking, but due to a severe case of the flu, he was unable to make the trip. He left Todd Zola, Jeff Erickson, and Jock Thompson in his stead. If you ever have the chance to go to one of these forums, you should go. Even as a non-fantasy player, I was captivated for the entire time. It is always good to hear about MLB for the year, and there’s something fun about intimately knowing a team, and being able to discuss all facets of that team intelligently, even if nothing else.
As I predicted, the fantasy baseball world is not made up by a high percentage of women, as evidenced by the 99% of men in the room who either couldn’t or wouldn’t drag their wives or girlfriends along. I was surprised at the median age of the audience; it was about 40, which is older than I would have suspected.
As many of you already knew, I don’t play fantasy baseball--and that decision comes both from focusing more on a single team rather than trying to follow players around the league, and my own reluctance to put wins, stolen bases and batting averages on par with other baseball statistics--but in my opinion, some of the best baseball analysts out there right now come from the fantasy mindset.
Due to copyright restrictions, and because this tour is still continuing around the U.S. for a couple more weeks, I will not share the overall content of the forum, but I thought I would touch on a couple of points and conversations that these brilliant baseball minds had on the 2008 Oakland Athletics.
Huston Street
Street fell into the category of “Injured Players Worth Speculating On”, whether or not he completes the year in Oakland. It seemed like half of the panel thought Street might rack up 25 or so saves before an eventual trade, but most seemed to feel he was healthy enough to bounce back in a big way. The good news for A’s fans is that most of the experts point to Street’s performance in his return last season as a great sign for this year. Couple that with the prediction that if the A’s are winning a game in ‘08, it is very likely a save situation, since the A’s offense is just not going to blow anybody out. Now, if we could only replace Duchscherer in the ‘pen to get to the save, we would be all set.
A’s starting pitching
To my great surprise, about halfway through the session, I heard Jeff Erickson make an off-hand comment about the A’s pitching being better than everyone predicted. This intrigued me, since I don’t think they’re very good, and I’m a fan! I questioned him during a break about his thoughts, and he spoke highly of Chad Gaudin, of all pitchers, which, again, really intrigued me.
Jeff also is high on Justin Duchscherer as a starter, and feels that barring injury, he could be a legitimate threat in the new role.
Interestingly enough, it seems as if AN is more negative about Rich Harden (and I would argue that that’s because we’re the ones who see him pitch) than anyone else on the panel. Most of them think he will pitch at least 60 innings, giving him about 10 starts. I hope Harden pitches 150+ innings, but I actually think he’ll pitch about 40-50, so I guess anything over that is a bonus for the team. Of course, there is a difference between pitching x number of innings and pitching well, but I think by this point, we all have to hope that the talent we see in Harden comes through as long as his health holds up.
And poor Joe Blanton can’t escape a joke; I believe the phrase ‘stuck with Joe Blanton on my team’ may have been used to describe a fantasy team last year. As an A’s fan, I actually feel pretty good about being ‘stuck’ with Joe Blanton. While I don’t think he’s much better than an 3.75-4.00 ERA pitcher who will give you 200 innings, I think there is great value in being a consistent pitcher also happens to a) be healthy and b) give the A’s 200+ innings. However, in consulting my fantasy oracle, I have discovered that Blanton’s lack of K’s will affect his fantasy value.
Travis Buck
Buck fell into the category of ‘Players Most Likely to See an Increase of Playing Time’, which translates to “We Hope So!” If A’s fans had their way last year, Buck would have started the season, and played as many innings as possible until the very last game. Unfortunately, as we know, Buck fought injuries (and not ones easily repaired) all year, and struggled to stay in the lineup and on the field. Which is a shame, really; he showed tremendous potential at Spring Training, and looked like he could have easily challenged for Rookie of the Year with a healthy season (not to mention, help the A’s abysmal offense).
Daric Barton
I brought up Barton in the Q&A session, and he drew comparisons to Casey Kotchman and Kevin Youkilis, so take that for what it’s worth. I’m not as sold on Barton as many are, but considering the lack of talent in the 1B position in the AL this year (a phenomenon touched on during this lecture), I think Barton will be have to be it for the A’s. The lack of power is a concern for everyone; it seems like it should have developed more than it has, but we aren’t exactly overstocked with other options right now. That being said, Barton performed when called up last year, and I hope those numbers continue.
Gio Gonzalez
Gonzalez, who came over from the White Sox in the Swisher trade, also received a mention in the proceedings, as possibly getting a chance to pitch with the A’s in this ‘rebuilding’ year.
Nick Swisher
Speaking of one of the off-season’s biggest trades, it’s entirely unanimous that Swisher will benefit from his new ballpark. Leaving Oakland and its cavernous foul territory in favor of hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field should turn fly balls into homeruns for Swisher, and might give him new life on the foul pop-ups. It will certainly be interesting to see.
Mark Kotsay
Referred to as Mark “I think my back is broken” Kotsay. When someone in the audience asked if he said “back” or “bat”, the response was “Either. Both”. Hilarious.
And just for AN fun, there was also a comment about: Darin “I Play The Game The Right Way” Erstad, and I didn’t make up that moniker; it came with his name.
Bottom line: I was surprised to see the A’s discussed as much as they were, even though not a single player fell into the ‘fun’ categories, like ‘Best Pitchers’ or ‘Best Hitters’, but maybe they’ll have to be satisfied with ‘Best Hair’ or ‘Dreamiest Eyes’. Most of the panel still picks the A’s to fall between 65-75 wins, so nothing has changed in that regard.
I’m not sure I can argue with that. Everything--absolutely everything--is going to have to go right for the A’s to be competitive. That means everyone stays healthy, at least half the team performs to career highs, all rookies must pan out, the pitching has to a) include Harden, b) work with Duchscherer in the new role, and c) be pretty darn good to offset an offense that will score between 2-4 runs a game; and the offense actually has to score the 2-4 runs a game.
I’m cautiously optimistic for the future, and will accept being pleasantly surprised, but expected bad team or not, the possibilities are endless. Before the team ever steps on the field, anything can happen, and this could be the year, you know. Does it EVER get any better than March?
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What I like best about fantasy baseball...
Is that it makes every game in both leagues interesting to me. Because how the players on those teams do determines the scores for the week. So even when the A's had a less than fascinating year last year I was still on pins and needles to see how Swish and Cust did. (They were on my team). The same with players on other teams.
Average age of 40...
doesn't really surprise me. Most 15 - 40 year old males like football and, probably, basketball. I'll be honest, I liked football first for the first few decades of my life, even though I had one of the greatest teams in baseball history right in my backyard. But, of course, I had one of the greatest football teams in history right in my backyard, too. It was a great time to be an Oakland fan.
Go A's!
Don't get me wrong...I wasn't surprised by the 15-40 range; it was the 40-70 range that got me!
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
blah blah blah
words words words
WHERE THE HECK IS MY 'I
Beane's World!! Excellent!!! Rock On, Beane! Rock On, Geren!
You must have typed angle bracket + 3
New AN gets excited by angle brackets. It keeps trying to turn them into code even if they're not.
On the plus side, the ♥ code seems to work. (Or at least it does in preview. We'll see if it shows up when I post.)
formerly known as mdl
New AN
seems to support every character entity I throw at it. You don't even have to know the codes; just cut and paste that heart. ♥
Foreign alphabets, too: γνωθι σεαυτόν
Might be browser-specific, though.
I'll leave it to someone else to see what works in the sigline. I think I'd be embarrassed to be the one guy with a Greek sigline. I may be pedantic, but I'm not pompous.
formerly known as mdl
Wow, I can even make it take dingbats.
﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏
✂ ✓ ✡ ✪ ✺ ❀ ❖ ❝ ❞ ➄ ➓ ➢ ➲ ☀ ☂ ☎ ☟
☠ ☥ ☪ ☭ ☮ ☯ ♒ ♘ ♨ ♬ ♻ ⅔ ℒ
〓 ⬇ ◎ ◑ ▼ ◥ ⌫ ↩ ↕ ☺ ☆
﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏
Kinda small, though.
Can others see these, or is it just on my screen?
formerly known as mdl
at work now
They appear here, too, but they looked a lot prettier on my Mac at home.
formerly known as mdl
question for you barton fans
Do you guys think he will be similar to John Olerud? Better? Worse?
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC
worse defensively ...
has the potential to be better offensively, if he develops more power ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I played
fantasy baseball one year. Only one year. And then I realized that I found myself rooting for players on teams I couldn't stand. Like Alfonso Soriano (who at the time was with the Yankees). It wound up being something I couldn't do and feel good about myself in the morning. I imagine it would be what you'd feel like if you were cheating on your spouse.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 27, 2008 8:43 AM PST reply actions
I've found a way around that,
but it doesn't work as well as I would like. I stay away from any LAAAAAAAAAA's on my team. The first year I played I had Colon. I hated the fact that he had to do well for my team to succeed. So I try to avoid players from teams I hate as much as possible. Every once and a while I find someone who I can root for over the stench of their team-Last yearI had Youkilis and the year before I got H Matsui.
The good part of it is I usually can root for my players to do well. The bad news is I always end up passing over 1-2 players I know I should take to win.
Winner of the 2008 "find grover a new sig" contest.
It's funny
that year my rotation essentially wound up being the big three and Randy Johnson after a lot of wheeling and dealing. I just can't afford to play because I can't think rationally about it. In other words, I can't separate my fandom enough to make good decisions.
How can I draft Vlad even if he's sitting there at a position where he'd be a steal? I just can't bring myself to do it because I can't root for an Angel to do well, even a relatively likable one like Vlad.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 27, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Try National League only
I can't root against Oakland - nor for any Angels, etc. so I am in a NL only league. Works out nice.
I never start a pitcher who is pitching against the A's ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
OK
The A's offense is not going to score 2-4 runs a game.
Think about that. That's like 486 runs in a season. I'm not sure when the last season in which a team scored as few as 486 runs was, but I'm almost 100% certain that it was in 1968 or earlier. Possibly not since the deadball era.
Most of the serious projections I've seen have the A's offense at anywhere from slightly below to somewhat above average next season. Not "somewhere between the absolute worst offense of all time [possibly excepting the 1899 Cleveland Spiders] and merely the worst offense in the past 25 years."
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
That part was SUPPOSED to be ironic ;-)
Yes, I recognize that they will score more runs, but it will FEEL like they can't score 4 runs in a game. It sure as hell did last year.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
And on another note...
Have you seen our offense this year?
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
It's better than the pitching...
The reason why it felt like the team couldn't score 4 runs a game last year was that they scored a huge number of runs in several enormous blowouts.
Hopefully the distribution of the runs will be a little less weird this year.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Okay, we can agree. The offense AND pitching are terrible this year. Hmmm...should be fun! :-)
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think PT will agree with that ...
I don't.
The offense is not terrible. It's quite average, actually. It lacks star players, but, with the exception of Crosby, it lacks scrubs as well.
The pitching staff could be terrible ... it could also be quite good ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Again with the sarcasm ;-)
I agree with you. Taking the black holes (except for Crosby) out of the lineup can only HELP the A's.
And the pitching is one, huge, giant question mark, except for Blanton, really.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
The beauty of question marks ...
they're full of potential ...
teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Tigers are full of exclamation marks, they have nowhere to go but down!
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I keep telling myself that
Every year, I think "This Yankees lineup is ancient. They have to start sucking at some point, right?"
And then their 36-year-old catcher puts up a 950 OPS and hits .330 despite being one of the slowest players in the league.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Plus...
Cano is developing into a monster. I love him for fantasy this year....That second half he put up was sick. I guess when the rest of your IF is so good, you can absorb a 1B spot that doesnt have a masher.
I think a lot depends on how Damon, Matsui and Posada hit this year....They arent young anymore and very key to how that offense produces as a whole. Posada's hit rate was a ridiculous 39% last year, so it's clear he regresses a bunch, but his pop is still there.
Also, Jeter's BA will be there, but the power and speed were not last year....be interesting if he reverts to the 34 SB he had in 06 or if the 15 last year are more his level. My guess is he splits the difference.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Feb 27, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Plus there was those triple black holes ...
in the persons of Kotsay, Kendall and Crosby ...
on the plus side, the competing overwhelming gravitational pulls protected the team from getting sucked into oblivion ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Looking it up
Last year, in NINETY-SEVEN of the A's games, they scored less than 4 runs, whether they won or lost.
THAT is a crazy run distribution.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Excellent piece
The Baseball HQ guys are really strong in what they do and very well thought of in both fantasy and real baseball. Shandler actually went to work as a consultant for the Cardinals for a season or two. Too bad he was not at the event, would have been an interesting brain to pick there.
The Erstad comment is classic. I Imagine it was Jeff Erickson who said it, he actually has a radio show on XM,he has a good sense of humor on the show.
Bring back Hammer.
Also...
I really agree on Duchsherer. He really is going late in the high level, 15 team money leagues that have drafted so far. I plan on targeting him late in the competitive leagues. Even if he breaks down as a starter, he provides value if I can get 80-100 IP out of him with a nice era/whip at the round he is being drafted in. Could really return some nice value.
Bring back Hammer.
The A's are bereft of stars ...
wouldn't be surprised if not a single A's player left the board in the top ten rounds (except that I tend to play with a lot of A's fans ...)
but the team does offer a ton of value picks. Barton could be a star in AL-only, but even if he breaks out, his value is limited in mixed leagues.
Gaudin, Duke, Harden, Meyer (if he gets the nod) have the potential to vastly outplay their draft spots ... or come up total busts.
Street could be one of the top handful of closers around ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Very true...and good call
In 15 team leagues, Street is the only guy going in the top 10 rounds....Scary thing is that Harden is usually the second off the board, right around where Blanton goes.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Feb 27, 2008 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
This isn't really related to fantasy
but I question the phrasing of this clause:
"While I don’t think he’s much better than an 3.75-4.00 ERA pitcher who will give you 200 innings"
You do go on to point out the value in that, but I have to point out that a pitcher with a 4 ERA in the American League is actually significantly above average. AL ERA in the 4 years Blanton has pitched in the majors: 4.54, 4.36, 4.43, 4.20.
And am I the only one that thinks Duke in the starter's role is a horrible idea?
by thejd44 on Feb 27, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply actions
Perhaps not
but you're more likely to NOT be the only one if you give an argument for why you think that.
Have at ye.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
A few reasons
For one, health. Duke isn't young, and he's had a pretty serious hip condition. The A's seem to think regular innings (but significantly more) will help him, but I think the more he pitches the more likely he'll be hurt.
He's one of the best setup men in the game when healthy, and I don't like the idea of messing with that. I know the A's bullpen is fairly deep right now, but a lot of those guys are unproven question marks. If this season is meant to be a rebuilding year, I'd prefer seeing the younger guys like Meyer, Braden, etc. in the rotation so we know if they're any good. I don't see Duchscherer being a starter on this team for the next 3-4 years, so why now?
He's also essentially a 2-pitch pitcher. He doesn't use his change very often at all. His slider gets a little more action, but not much. And neither is good enough (I don't think) to be used a lot more. They're basically just "show me" pitches. A 2-pitcher starter is already at a disadvantage, but Duke's fastball isn't overwhelming (batters hit it fairly well). He relies on that curveball a lot, and I'm not sure how effective it will be the 2nd and 3rd time through the order.
Again, I really like Duchscherer and I'm glad he's on the A's. I just think he's being put in the wrong role this year and I don't think it helps him or the organization as a whole. My guess is he doesn't spend the whole year in the rotation.
by thejd44 on Feb 27, 2008 1:50 PM PST reply actions
Nice post.
So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one
by baseballgirl on Feb 27, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
I think the last sentance is the key ...
He'd have a lot more trade value as a starter then as a setup man.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
If this season is meant to be a rebuilding year, I'd prefer seeing the younger guys like Meyer, Braden, etc. in the rotation so we know if they're any good. I don't see Duchscherer being a starter on this team for the next 3-4 years, so why now?
we could acquire a good deal more in a trade if Duke proves himself a competent starter. he has one more arb year, no?
I always thought Duke's "show me" pitch was his 12-6 slow curve– does he throw a slider?. I think it's definitely effective used sparingly or as a first pitch. I know he doesn't use the change up often, but he really hasn't needed anything beyond his cutter as a reliever. cutter/2 seamer/change/curve seems like a decent repertoire to me, as long as his command is sharp.
He'll be a free agent in the 2010 season
meaning that, you guessed it, he's on the block. Just like every other A's player whose contract is expiring by then. This is clearly a move to buff his trade value; it could backfire if he gets hurt, but the A's clearly feel that his innings/injury ratio will be higher as a starter than as a reliever. It also adds versatility to his value as trade bait-- teams can acquire him as either a starter or a reliever, expanding the range of offers.
Virtually all the pitchers on the team are unproven question marks at this point, so there's no real reason to favor the bullpen over the rotation with his "veteran" presence. I might change my mind on this if I thought Harden was actually going to be healthy, but I'm just not capable of making that leap of faith until he gets through at least a month without pain or velocity decline.
In terms of pitch selection, he's got four significant pitches (fastball, cutter, curve, slider) and the rarely used changeup, and he may diversify his offerings as a starter (certainly it would make strategic sense for him to approach starting with a different game plan than relieving).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It irks me when Duke is referred to
as a "two-pitch" pitcher. He's not. The 2-seam fastball, cutter, and 12-6 curve are three distinct pitches, every bit as much as Haren's fastball, slider, and splitter are. Duke also has pinpoint control, which is a tremendous asset and serves you in multiple turns through the order - see Joe Blanton, who has a fastball, curve, and change, and excellent control, and does just fine several times through the order. Plus, Duke can adjust and choose to use his "seldom used" changeup more because he is starting instead of relieving. So that's 4 distinct pitches and exceptional control/command. Works for me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Interesting thing to note
ESPN doesn't differentiate between types of fastballs. But in 2007, they say he threw the changeup only 2% of the time (I think, I'm not on the page right now). I'm not trusting the pitch until I see it used effectively.
As for the cutter and 2-seamer, that's a fair point. But I'm still not willing to call him a 4 pitch pitcher.
And if this move is designed to up his trade value, I understand. I just wonder if those innings wouldn't be better served going to someone who they have planned for the future. It seems like this plan was put in place when the A's thought they were going to contend, then when the plan changed they forgot to nix this aspect.
by thejd44 on Feb 27, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Thing about Duke's changeup
is that the few times he threw it (and I believe the 2% figure - or a while I didn't even know if he threw one, or if I had just imagined it), the pitch was actually very effective, to the point where I couldn't figure out why he didn't throw it more. Maybe he didn't really need it as a reliever, but could change 2% to 10%-20% and add a fourth very effective pitch - at least effective enough to make his other three pitches better, which is all you really need.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
According to Kalk's classification algorithm,
Blanton actually throws FIVE pitches: straight fastball, sinker, slider, curveball and changeup.
He doesn't throw the straight fastball all that often anymore (10% or so), but if you see him hit 93-95 on the radar gun, odds are that's what it was.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So 90% of his fastballs are gay?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, 90 % of them "go down"...
make of that what you will.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
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vr, Xeifrank
Dodger Sims blog
Funny you wrote this...
...and you note the 99% male participation.
I just read this nice piece yesterday in the OC Register about a female fantasy baseball 'freak.'
A recommended read.
"female fantasy baseball freak"
Isn't that triple redundant?
Did you see what I did there? I managed to offend all the women and all the male fantasy baseball players, leaving only...um...me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OT
someone going to do a game thread? The game starts in 30 minutes
Anyone doing play by play?
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC
Blanton was a top 15 starter in our league
I play in a somewhat sabermetric league. So it's educational but fun too. We have basically adapted Runs Created and Pitching Runs Created formulas and then throw in runs, rbis, wins and saves etc. to make it fun.
Blanton looks great in our system because he is a fucking horse. Swisher is also huge, easily a top 15 outfielder.
I can be an A's fan and still get alot out fantasy. I've learned so much about the game and all the teams, so the little conflicts I have I can overlook.
I've been considering drafting a closer high in the draft this year and K-Rod keeps coming up. I don't think I can live with him on my team. Lackey's another one. But Vlad? Shit, who wouldn't want Vlad?
Shiiiiiiiiiiiit
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagines such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Feb 28, 2008 12:03 PM PST reply actions

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