Cupcakes to Boston?
by norcalfan on Feb 26, 2008 4:13 PM PST
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PrintRumor has it that it is possible that Boston might package Crisp +1 for Blanton.
Would this move helps us out or are we moving to another d-strong plate challenged cf'r. If this deal gets done could we pull more than one top ten from Boston? I am curious for AN's thoughts! Personally, and I may be dreaming, I would love to see it go down as follows:
Boston: Blanton
Oakland: Crisp, Oscar Tejeda and Ryan Kalish as a starting point and maybe another B pitching prospect.
Thoughts?
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I'm not a big fan of adding Crisp
While I think he may have some value I just don't see how much he has for us in the next two years. I think it is a safe assumption that the A's won't be seriously competing for a world series in the next two years.
Either Crisp will hit like he did in Boston for the next two years and we will be begging for a better option when we are looking to compete in two years. Or he will hit like he did in Cleveland and will be looking for a nice fat contract in two years when we are looking to compete.
Even if he plays well here he is not a difference making player that will push us to contention. Best case scenario Crisp provides a couple extra wins a season to get us to the low 80's , keeps us from finding out if we have anything in Denorfia, and prevents us from trying Gonzalez as an MLB CFer.
Is anyone else sick of these Crisp for Blanton Rumours!?!
These stupid East Coast newsapers overvalue Crisp and say BB would be stupid enough to let Blanton go for a OF that we do not need, especially at 5-6mil a yr. for a team thats far from contending immediately.
Speaking of trading things we no longer need, we should deal one of our aging extra middle relievers (Calero) for something like LaRoche + Mat Kemp. I think we could give the Dodgers something we don't really have any use for for some good assets, right?
The New England area press is turning into the British press with all their unfounded gossip and trade rumours.
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
Totally dude...
I can't fathom why the Dodgers aren't breaking down the door to give us LaRoche and Kemp for Kiko.
by WhiteElephants on Feb 27, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
lol
what if we throw in keith ginter?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
That would be an awful, awful deal for Oakland
Fortunately, Billy Beane isn't a complete idiot.
For once and for all time:
Coco.
Crisp.
Has.
No.
Value.
To.
Oakland.
Period.
The disjoint ravings of Boston homers desperate to rid the team of an albatross contract are of no relevance here.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Feb 26, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amen
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Feb 26, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Word!
Next it will be "our street asphalt for your parking lot asphalt"
Who thinks of these trades???!!!
"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer
by One won lost won on Feb 26, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
If we wanted Crisp,
why not keep our best healthy starter and sign Kenny Lofton? We could have done that a couple months ago. I'm with PT on this one - Crisp has no value to the A's. Jed Lowrie? Nick Hagadone? Jacoby Ellsbury? Different story.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is from an East coast paper
They've got no fuckin' clue what Beane has been doing in California.
Beane traded Haren and Swisher and he hasn't picked up one player who's less then 5 years from free agency. Now he's going to trade Blanton for a CF two years away from FA riches even though the A's have acquired 3 OFers in their previous deals?
Not likely.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Having said that
This is the kind of situation that would be ripe for Beane and Epstein to find a 3rd team and make a deal happen.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm not even sure who that 3rd team would be
There were so many center fielders on the market last offseason, it seemed like anyone who needed one could have one. (And also some teams that didn't need one, as Grant et al have Chronicled...)
Maybe the Rockies? Crisp and Ellis to Colorado, Blanton to Boston, prospects to Oakland?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Sure, why not?
My brain is mush and all the involved parties participate in professional baseball... works for me.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Haren and Swisher are *losers*
Coco Crisp knows how to win.
Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@
I don't see where crisp would fit in
We have Buck, Denofria, Brown, and Sweeney in the outfield. We would just be adding a veteran outfielder past his prime
denorfia
from a previous blanton-crisp article:
As it stands, the A’s projected center fielder is Chris Denorfia, a 27-year-old who played at Division III Wheaton College, missed last season with Tommy John surgery and has played in 67 big-league games.
apparently denorfia isn't good enough because he went to a division III school.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Well, I went to a Div II school ...
... and I am indisputably not good enough to play for the Sox.
Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@
Pssssshhhhhhh....
Did you guys know some players don't even go to college at all?
Also, I'd like to +1 that avatar.
Formerly known as hward86.
I just luv that arguement!
Albert Pujols was a 13th round pick who wasn't good enough to land a Div 1 scholarship and look at how much he sucks.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Sigh
Wheaton College is in Massachusetts.
A's fans really need to stop viewing every comment from non A's fans as a putdown.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
In the context of the sentence,
it's pretty obvious that the author is implying that Denorfia is not trustworthy because he went to a D-III school.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No it's not "obvious"
It's "obvious" to me that the author is giving a nod to the the "local" boy. The writer wants to acknowledge Denofia's local ties, but does not really want to, and probably is not allowed by his editor to, write a multiple sentence paragraph on Denorfia's college career.
Papers all over the US, and all over the world do this.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
In PT's defense
(My feet are cold, did Hell just freeze over?)
I read that statement as a slam against Denorfia.
The writer is trying to explain why Crisp to Oakland makes sense. Denorfia has 67 games of big league experience and missed last season do to TJ surgery. Translation: The A's don't currently have an "established" CF.
Bringing up Wheaton College isn't an attempt to make it all better.
The monster at the end of this blog.
It's not the literal text of what he said
It's the manner in which that text was constructed.
First off, if everyone knew that Wheaton was a local school and he was just giving a shout to a local product, why would he mention that it was Division III?
Secondly, when people are abruptly switching the tone of their comments from good to bad, they tend to say things like "But" and "however," not put countervailing phrases in the same sentence separated by a comma.
It's possible that it's just bad writing, but "D-III => suckfest" seems much more likely to me.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think we need a "but" thread to discuss this
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
it's obvious to everyone else who read it
so if we're making generalizations, maybe whatever team you follow's fans really need to stop something something
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
I may be in the minority but
I could see how Crisp could fit in our plans. He is an amazing defensive CFer and if he bounces back to his Cleveland levels of hitting (perhaps pulling a Renteria and just needing out of Boston) he could be very valuable. We have no true CFer on our roster (besides Denrofia and I would bet that Crisp would hit better) or in the immediate minors. In fact, I wouldn't be too opposed to a guy like Julio Lugo for the same reasons. That said, I would not trade for Lugo's nor Crisp's full salary, especially for a guy like Blanton. Add Lowrie to Crisp at half-salary and I might consider a Blanton deal but if not, I say no deal.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
For the next two years,
if we trade Blanton we're simply going to suck no matter who is playing CF. In two years, we'd lose Crisp - at that point I'd like to at least have Blanton!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Crisp has an option year
It's actually three years, not two.
That said, I'd rather have 3 years of a player who is a. good, and b. plays a position where he's useful, by comparison to 3 years of a player who is a. not good and b. blocks a bunch of prospects.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
(besides Denrofia and I would bet that Crisp would hit better)
I wouldn't. A sizable majority of projection systems think Crisp will be a worse hitter than CD in 2008. He's probably a better defender, and might be a better overall player, but it's not by a whole lot and certainly not enough to justify wasting talent on the upgrade.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Also: increment the Denorfia misspellings watch
"Denrofia" is a new one.
We've now got:
Defornia
DeNorfia
Denrofia
De Norfia
De Nofria
Denofria
at least. I may be forgetting some. Keep 'em coming, folks.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Deformia
or..DeFormica
"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer
by One won lost won on Feb 26, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
Intentional misspellings don't count
unfortunately.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Even if he's with the team for 10 years...
I suspect his will be the most routinely misspelled name on AN. We'll find a nickname for him, of course, which will allow us to refer to him without having to doublecheck the spelling.
Go A's!
by FoolshGame22 on Feb 27, 2008 12:18 AM PST up reply actions
Perhaps I underestimate CD
and overestimate Coco but a 29 year old who has OPS'ed around 800 twice and is being offered for reasonably cheap (and this is the key phrase; I AM NOT ADVOCATING BLANTON FOR CRISP straight up) is more valuable than a 27 year old coming off major surgery and not yet to have had a starting job (although in large part due to a series of pretty good to great Reds OFers in Dunn, Junior, Freel, etc). If CD replicates his minor league success and I know you think he can, I would be very happy as we would have two very good CFers and could look for a trade (hell Crisp fetched a guy like Andy Marte when he was a very good prospect). But if we could get Crisp AND a guy like Lowrie and a low level prospect I would like the deal better than if it was Lowrie+Masterson. That's all I'm saying.
As for misspelling Denorfia, it's my bad. I actually do know how to spell it, just typing a little too fast; perhaps I should add the name to my spell check?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
It doesn't matter how good he is
Nick Blasi could be the best CF in the entire A's organization. It still wouldn't make any sense to acquire Coco Crisp. The team is rebuilding in a major way. Acquiring mediocre players with mid-range contracts is what stupid teams like the Pirates do. It's the exact worst possible way to go about a rebuild. The only important things are guys with near-zero service time.
I mean, if they were willing to basically throw him in for free, I'd take him-- maybe the A's could turn around and trade him for value-- but there's no way he'd be better than even one B-level prospect.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Feb 27, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
PaulThomas excitedly slams fists on table in disgust
I feel the shockwaves in San Diego!
The first rule of Oakland is - you do not talk about injuries. The second rule of Oakland is - you DO NOT talk about trainers." - Larry Davis
I'd take Crisp in a Blanton deal
But it would have to include Jed Lowrie, and somebody else really good. His contract is very reasonable, and he'd be more of a known commodity than Denorfia (upon whom I am decidely not sold).
So it goes.
OK, so stipulate that Denorfia sucks
Does Carlos Gonzalez suck?
Does Aaron Cunningham suck?
Does Ryan Sweeney suck?
Does Jermaine Mitchell suck?
Does Corey Brown suck?
All or most of those guys are likely to be MLB ready by the time the team is ready to contend again.
If by some mischance the A's still have no CF in 2010, why not trade for Crisp then and pay him $10 million fewer, not to mention save prospects?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I would say that the collective answer is
in Center Field? Quite possibly and/or in 2008? Quite definitely.
I think the big unknown about whether or not a trade including Crisp would be worthwhile is whether he is the #2 piece in the deal or the #3. I think we really don't know the answer to that and would make a huge difference.
Crisp has value in putting a good defensive center fielder behind our young, upcoming pitchers and our older, soon to be traded at value that would hopefully inflated thanks to quality defense ...
He also would have significant trade value if he could bounce back to his Cleveland level of production.
He would also have value in helping to keep the team mildly competetive in a weak AL West, keeping fans interested and spending money.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
How can this value possibly outweigh
the value he has to Boston?
Worst case scenario for them, he's a good 4th outfielder/DR on a top team. He's also insurance against Ellsbury flaming out. The potential trade value is the same.
I still have yet to see outlined a set of circumstances in which acquiring Crisp actually makes sense for both parties. It's not that Crisp has zero value to the A's-- although I think his value would be pretty close to zero from a "reaching the postseason" standpoint-- it's that there's no conceivable way his value to Oakland right now is more than his value to Boston.
If he's going to be disgruntled and sit on the bench and become a clubhouse cancer, let him do that first and then trade for him once the Sox are desperate to get rid of him. Kind of a reverse Milton Bradley move, maybe sending Alan Embree back to Boston or something.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The situation is rather similar, isn't it
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Like I said ...
if he's the #2 piece in the deal -- Pass
if he's the #3 piece in the deal -- it's close enough to the clubhouse cancer situation.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Who's the realistic #2 though?
If Crisp is the #3, and Lowrie is (as pretty much everyone agrees) the #1, what better-than-Crisp value is there in the Sox farm system that they'd be willing to give up?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'd figure on Justin Masterson being the most likely partner ...
Ryan Kalish would be exciting, too ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Still won't make Crisp worthwhile...
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
Justin, not Danny ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
either way, speculation about adding them to the 40-man ...
... would be considered rostermastersonbation.
Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@
I don't see how either of those guys
has more value than Coco Crisp. Kalish is a million years away and Masterson just isn't all that good.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Well ...
SIckels grades both as straight Bs, Goldstein gives both 4 stars and rates Masterson higher than Lowrie, BA also rates Masterson higher than Lowrie, listing him as #64 overall and Kalish #96.
You can find reason to hate on any of the prospects outside the top 10 -- but these are quality players.
Anderson, Bowden, Hagadone would also be options.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
If you were Boston,
would you trade Crisp straight-up for a Ryan Kalish?
I'm guessing the answer is "no."
Separate issue: if these guys really are as valuable as Crisp, why wouldn't Oakland just trade for them, seeing as how the value of prospects is so much higher for a rebuilding team than the value of vets?
In other words, wouldn't Lowrie, Masterson, Kalish make more sense than Lowrie, Masterson/Kalish, Crisp?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'm working under the assumption ...
that Boston actively wants to find a new home for Crisp. If not, it ain't happening ...
We would want him because he's a good player that could be had for cheap. If he can't be had for cheap, we won't want him.
As far as Kalish v Crisp, Crisp has significantly more upside because, if he bounces back, he could be traded for significantly more than Kalish. There's also the issue of Boston not wanting to give away their entire farm system -- especially a high upside prospect like Kalish.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Doesn't Kalish have the significant upside
of, you know, being a good player?
I can't see how this is Boston giving away the farm. I mean, it would be something like their #3, #5 and #7 prospects, right? I forget what the literal rankings are, but it's clearly not the majority of their farm talent.
Random: this is an odd list (Boston's top prospects for the last decade)...
1998 Brian Rose, rhp Out of baseball
1999 Dernell Stenson, of Deceased
2000 Steve Lomasney, c Out of baseball
2001 Dernell Stenson, of/1b Deceased
2002 Seung Song, rhp Out of baseball
2003 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins
2004 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins
2005 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins
2006 Andy Marte, 3b Indians
2007 Daisuke Matsuzaka, rhp Red Sox
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Elsbury is already a big leaguer ...
Buchholz probably is too.
If they did that trade, they'd have none of their top 5 prospects left in the minors, according to Goldstein, only Lars Anderson (#3) of their top 6, according to BA. Sickels seems to like the balance of their farm system better than Goldstein/BA.
They'd still have some decent talent left, but the top couple of shelves of their cupboard would be pretty empty.
Would they care? I don't know -- but it's something to consider.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Having a strong top-level farm
is a lot less important when your major league depth is extremely good, as Boston's is right now. They have eight starters (Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz, Lester, Tavarez, and Schilling, plus Blanton), at least five outfielders, three middle infielders, at least three corner infielders... the only position where they're even vaguely thin is catcher, and none of the prospects they'd be dealing away are catchers.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The Red Sox have two offensive players who I expect the truly consider a part of their long term plans ...
Pedroia and Ellsbury.
They have a strong squad, 1 through 25 for 2008 ... but a guy like Kalish isn't a factor in 2008, anyway. Virtually the entire offense is going to be turning over at the end of the decade (and none of them are likely to be worth re-signing).
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I'd go for cheesy ...
I'd think you would, too ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Whoever thought up that Pizza Hut idea
should be hanged by the neck and then filleted with a flint knife.
It's that disgusting.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Cupcakes?
What about Muffin tops? TOP OF THE MUFFIN TO YOU!
As long as they're Blueberry...
and not the ones sticking out of tight jeans.
No Harden and No Chavez make the A's go, something something...
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